DP Draft QF: harms vs Edgar Allan Pillow

[harms]

Spoiler: “starting formation”

-----------------------harms----------------------------------------------------Edgar Allan Pillow---------------------------------------

TEAM harms

I'm going with a good old 3-5-2 — it makes sense to focus on central areas considering Edgar's personnel & I believe that in a straight fight my guys will come out on top. The set up is pretty straight-forward

• unquestionably one of the greatest keepers of all-time with no apparent weaknesses in Rinat Dasayev — compare that to Claudio Bravo on other side
• near impenetrable defensive unit with elegant Gaetano Scirea being flanked by 2 no-nonsense physical monsters Oscar Ruggeri and Diego Godin
• flying wingbacks on either side — Andreas Brehme may as well be the golden standard for this role & Jordi Alba, while not quite reaching the heights of the likes of Cafu or Brehme, has already proven over the past decade just how devastating his attacking runs can be, especially with the right playmaker in the middle
• in the middle there was a tough choice between more control in Bozsik and more energy in Robson but I feel like Hungarian is a more natural fit alongside Zico and Scirea. And it's not like he was a liability in defense either, he played in a very demanding role for Hungary and consistently dominated every midfield that he came across
• the attack is very much self-explanatory — the greatest goalscorer in history, the best British striker of all-time & the White Pelé in the hole. Only counting their record from official games, they have almost 2000 career goals between the three of them — and there's plenty of creativity there as well

TEAM EAP (or whatever is left of it!)

Formation:

4-3-3

Tl;dr Tactical summary:

+ Solid defence, monster of a midfield and a versatile attack blends creativity and goal scoring.
+ Top notch midfield unit blending physicality and creativity with everyone able to make a impact offensively and defensively.
+ All hardworking and skilled players with added extra special in having two footed players (Demyanenko, Modric and Boniek) along the flank.
+ Boniek and Eusebio in a free role drifting in and out, behind a mobile monstrosity like Elkjaer is a force any defence will find it hard to handle. Creativity, skill, lethal goal scoring instinct...this unit has it all!

Players and Tactics:

- With Higuita injured, Claudio Bravo mans the goal. This is the good 2014-16 pre-Man City version where he was La Liga Team of the Season: 2014–15, Copa América Team of the Tournament: 2015, 2016 and Copa América Best Goalkeeper: 2015, 2016. During this peak, he was well regarded for his shot stopping, ball distribution and overall regarded as a top Keeper!
- Daniel Passarella returns from his injuries and joins Paolo Montero in central defence. Good blend of sweeper and stopper making for a solid defence.
- Anatoliy Demyanenko and Eric Gerets man the wings. Both are 'one man flank' fullbacks with insane stamina and ability to shuttle the flank all match long providing good balance between attack and defence.

- Fernando Redondo is the game runner who will control the game with his vision, creativity and ability to dictate the tempo.
- Roy Keane does Roy Keane. No further intro needed.
- Luka Modric joins the team. A hardworking and highly creative ball carrying playmaker who can contribute both ways.

- Zbignew Boneik provides lots of creativity and workrate. Able to stretch the defence and open space for others and score himself, he's a menace for any defender to handle.
- Eusebio. GOAT. The Black Pearl. Noted for this stamina, creativity and ability to pick up ball from deep and run at defenders and signature ferocious right footed shot!
- Preben Elkjaer. Complete forward, powerful and dynamic and near unstoppable.

 

[harms]

@GodShaveTheQueen
Good luck @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[harms]

Lovely team, especially that midfield! Can't say a bad word about any of your attackers either.

But defense seems to be your relatively weaker point with Cannavaro missing his second game in a row. I generally prefer to have only one hot head in the centre back partnership so I wouldn't pick Montero as an ideal side-kick to Passarella... especially with both of your fullbacks being quite attacking in nature. That's not to say that Demyanenko or Gerets aren't fine in this set up, they're quite solid defensively but both of them relied more on their athleticism and less on their defensive prowess while defending — and their offensive contribution is the main reason why they're rated as high as they are.

And that defense with Claudio Bravo behind them (a keeper with a decent peak, but ultimately not fit to influence this fixture) has all the goalscoring might of Müller, Greaves & Zico with the creativity of (Zico & Greaves x2) Bozsik, Brehme, Alba & Scirea supporting them

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Nothing to say bad about your team either. I'm was praying you wouldn't bench Ronson and would go with 4-4-2 diamond instead.

But defense seems to be your relatively weaker point with Cannavaro missing his second game in a row. I generally prefer to have only one hot head in the centre back partnership so I wouldn't pick Montero as an ideal side-kick to Passarella... especially with both of your fullbacks being quite attacking in nature. That's not to say that Demyanenko or Gerets aren't fine in this set up, they're quite solid defensively but both of them relied more on their athleticism and less on their defensive prowess while defending — and their offensive contribution is the main reason why they're rated as high as they are.

And that defense with Claudio Bravo behind them (a keeper with a decent peak, but ultimately not fit to influence this fixture) has all the goalscoring might of Müller, Greaves & Zico with the creativity of (Zico & Greaves x2) Bozsik, Brehme, Alba & Scirea supporting them

Certainly sucks when your injuries are worse than your opponents...esp more if all injuries are in same area of pitch. With Cannavaro and Fillol, it would be a much closer match.

Still I'm not a huge fan of Jordi Alba. With a back 3 her certainly has better protection, but I'd still expect Eusebio to exploit that space between him and Ruggeri. Eusecio has that exceptional combination of size, power and speed that he can get past Alba and unleash his signature thundering shot before Ruggeri can tackle him. With the likes of Redondo and Modric behind him.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

For what its worth.... some opinions on why Boniek might have more success with Scirea!

As a follow-up on Boniek, here's another interesting thing. This is Boniek's record against Scirea – both players had peaked around the same time, so there are no cases of individual mismatches here. Note, that in every one of those 6 games Boniek is playing for an inferior, on paper, team.

A link for those who want to check out the squads etc.

 

[harms]

For what its worth.... some opinions on why Boniek might have more success with Scirea!

Oh, sure, but I’d probably post the detailed statistics as well

 

[harms]

Still I'm not a huge fan of Jordi Alba. With a back 3 her certainly has better protection, but I'd still expect Eusebio to exploit that space between him and Ruggeri. Eusebio has that exceptional combination of size, power and speed that he can get past Alba and unleash his signature thundering shot before Ruggeri can tackle him.

It's kind of an odd thing to picture — first, Eusebio preferred to shoot from central areas even if he started out wide (not like someone like Robben, which is a player that would fit better in this beat the fullback & shoot picture more naturally). His shooting was way more reliant on a sheer power (virtually unmatched by any player of his era) rather than on a curved trajectory that left keepers for dead (and that you'd expect from a shoot from wider areas).

So if you expect Eusebio to play his natural game I'm pretty sure that he'd play more against Davids than against Alba (and when he beats Alba he either goes into Davids' territory or into Ruggeri's one — or stays peeled out wide near the corner flag).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

So if you expect Eusebio to play his natural game I'm pretty sure that he'd play more against Davids than against Alba

Nor sure if that's to your benefit though. If Davids was occupying Eusebio it just leaves Keane and Redondo (who both are excellent B2Bs) against Bozsik. I certainly don't believe Davids can track Eusebio in this match.

 

[harms]

Nor sure if that's to your benefit though. If Davids was occupying Eusebio it just leaves Keane and Redondo (who both are excellent B2Bs) against Bozsik. I certainly don't believe Davids can track Eusebio in this match.

Are we back to football arithmetics? Davids is not tracking Eusebio, Davids plays where he plays. But if Eusebio cuts in and tries to shoot, he won’t do it without any pressure like you somehow imagined it — he will be faced by one of Davids, Ruggeri or Scirea if he wants to shoot from the areas that he usually shoots from.

 

[P-Nut]

I've nothing to back it up, but Godin as a side centre back seems off to me. He's not the playmaking type so makes sense to have him not in the middle, but also his general style seems to suit being the middle organiser more than the covering wide type.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Are we back to football arithmetics? Davids is not tracking Eusebio, Davids plays where he plays. But if Eusebio cuts in and tries to shoot, he won’t do it without any pressure like you somehow imagined it — he will be faced by one of Davids, Ruggeri or Scirea if he wants to shoot from the areas that he usually shoots from.

No, not on arithmetic's. I was just saying that Eusebio is probably the best player to have against a 3-5-2. A lightning run from the deep followed a smashing shot from outside the box. Of course there'll be good players there, but with Keane moving up, he'll exploit the space between Davids and Alba.

Alba was never a tough tackler and has often been positionally suspect defensively. the tactics of Barca were suited to his game, but he's not really at his peak outside that in my opinion. He'll definitely not be able to handle the power and pace of Eusebio which leaves a line straight your your CBs. Having Ruggeri is a point in your favor, but letting Eusebio have a run at our D isn't ideal.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

And add in that Boniek and Eusebio are both comfortable through either flank and middle, the sheer flexibility that my forward trio operates is a big factor for me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

 

[harms]

Again, assuming that Eusebio will have an upper hand against Alba is more than fair enough, but dismissing him as a non-entity with Eusebio running into free space at full pace is… weird? Defenders often struggle to handle the opposition’s forwards but slow them down significantly (as even beating a training cone takes some work).

I have 5 defenders in a complimentary set up with Ruggeri having experience of covering wide areas and Scirea being amazing at adjusting his movement to team’s defensive needs, world-class defensive midfielder who has made his name patrolling that inside left channel & a pretty grifty and position ally astute deep-lying playmaker…

Eusebio doesn’t get a clear run there unless he’s beating Alba and runs straight to the corner flag or runs back to his own goal. His game against England in 1966 is a very good example of such a performance where the defensive cover works brilliantly, Moore (Scirea/Ruggeri) pushes forward to limit space, Stiles (Davids) presses him when he drops deeper etc. this was Eusebio in the form of his life and it was a pretty great performance, but ultimately he struggled to make a difference, scoring the only goal from a weird penalty (same would go for the game against USSR, but the individual role of Voronin played a bigger part there).

 

[Šjor Bepo]

And add in that Boniek and Eusebio are both comfortable through either flank and middle, the sheer flexibility that my forward trio operates is a big factor for me.

so, what you saying is that you are happy with Eusebio moving to the left side?

 

[harms]

I’m really interested at how that backline is supposed to work though, especially against the deadliest finisher of all-time & multiple other goalscoring threats on the pitch.

How much freedom does Passarella get? Which defender pushes forward to stop the ongoing attacker? If it’s a “classic sweeper-stopper combo” then it would be Montero with Passarella covering? How much of defensive and attacking duties do Gerets and Demyanenko have? I’m especially interested in the former as he was one of the most enthusiastic attacking fullbacks that I’ve seen, usually resorting to lung-bursting runs back & heroic tackles (that didn’t always work) in case of being caught up further up the pitch. I can’t fault his mentality, athleticism & grit, but he wasn’t the most tactically astute player ever.

 

[harms]

This is the performance that I was talking about, it should already be available & it should stay up for a while:

 

[General_Elegancia]

Edgar's team has one of the dirtiest sweepers of all times who is known for elbows and kicks to opponents combo with another one of the most red cards in Sirie-A history.I don't think both can compliment each other well.Sure they can pair each other to be strong partnership but I'm sure too that in their bad days they will tackles and elbows like crazy mad men especially elbows from Passarella.

He hit hard fouls on Zico and Serginho ,In today rules it would be easily red card.

Your team have 3 attack-minded defenders(Passarella,Gerets and Demyanenko) who liked to join attacks everytime when they has an oppurtunity.That's will give some holes in this game,Passarella is one of the greatest defenders in the game because he was a very good defender who join the attack and score effectively and to bring him brightest you should have defensive mind lb who can cover him.I view different perspective @harms on Demyanenko although he is very attack-minded he is the right person in this game to run covers Passarella.
I don't concern his athleticsm abilities to do that,he has stamina and is fast enough to run up and down all the game,great product from USSR.

@Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[General_Elegancia]

I’m really interested at how that backline is supposed to work though, especially against the deadliest finisher of all-time & multiple other goalscoring threats on the pitch.

How much freedom does Passarella get? Which defender pushes forward to stop the ongoing attacker? If it’s a “classic sweeper-stopper combo” then it would be Montero with Passarella covering? How much of defensive and attacking duties do Gerets and Demyanenko have? I’m especially interested in the former as he was one of the most enthusiastic attacking fullbacks that I’ve seen, usually resorting to lung-bursting runs back & heroic tackles (that didn’t always work) in case of being caught up further up the pitch. I can’t fault his mentality, athleticism & grit, but he wasn’t the most tactically astute player ever.

On Demyanenko point I think he would be fine.I'm sure it maybe Passarella join attack more(his strength) and Demyanenko in this game will be more defensive focus.Edgar's team has 3 aggresive attacking defenders but all of them will not join as much as they do for sure(against Zico,Graves and Muller).

 

[harms]

.I view different perspective @harms on Demyanenko although he is very attack-minded he is the right person in this game to run covers Passarella.

My criticism focuses mostly on Gerets and Montero to be fair, but still Demyanenko was an attacking-minded player that was transformed into a defender by Lobanovsky’s rigorous training & tactical drills and not a defending-first player that was still good in offense like Marzolini (I’m not using Maldini as I want to have someone of a similar stature). Still, he is the least of Edgar’s worries, that’s for sure, but he’d have to limit his attacking forays forward.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I'd have put Keane on the left and Modric on the right

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

so, what you saying is that you are happy with Eusebio moving to the left side?

, he'll pop up all over the pitch, but as a starting position....I can compromise as far as Inside Left at best, but still maintain that Inside Right is where he's at his peak.

I'd have put Keane on the left and Modric on the right

Was thinking of it, but I don't wat Davids on Modric. Here he has more space to operate.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Was thinking of it, but I don't wat Davids on Modric. Here he has more space to operate.

I would actually want Davids on Modric. It's clear where your strength lies and where harms is not the strongest. You have a brilliant 3 man midfield both on and off the ball while his falls a bit short off the ball. If the likes of Eusebio/Modric/Gerets form a brilliant cohesion, especially with Alba already a weak link defensively, Davids might have to spend most of the game concentrating on that side of the pitch which leaves Redondo and Keane to then run the midfield and take the game to the opposition. Sure, it might feel like Modric gets sacrificed but it has great returns

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Also, Zico himself preferred the right side more and so did Bozsik I think. And you have Brehme there to link up. No brainer to have Keane on the left in my eyes

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just to add one last bit, Boniek, the best playmaker in your front 3 is on the left, so Modric on the right adds good symmetry there without overlaps I guess.

Maybe I am making too much of this, but I do think it changes the functional aspects of the team significantly

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Another interesting battle there is Scirea vs Elkjaer. I don't remember precise statistics, but I do remember from the past that he did give Scirea a hard time back in the day.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Okay I will stop talking to myself now.

 

[harms]

Another interesting battle there is Scirea vs Elkjaer. I don't remember precise statistics, but I do remember during some research in the past that he did give Scirea a hard time back in the day.

Yeah, Elkjær was one of the few strikers that posed a significant challenge to Scirea. He's had some great performances against Scirea's teams — against Italy in qualification & then there's the famous Cinderella goal against that eventually played a big part in Verona's championship.

 

[Gio]

Sorry @harms, I know it's that annoying question, but how high are you defending here / how much control are you looking to achieve with the ball?

I've nothing to back it up, but Godin as a side centre back seems off to me. He's not the playmaking type so makes sense to have him not in the middle, but also his general style seems to suit being the middle organiser more than the covering wide type.

Agree that I'd associate him mainly as a back 4 man for Atletico, and as you say I think he played in the middle of a back 3 for Uruguay in the 2014 World Cup. That said, if it's my biggest quibble with Harms in the face of injuries then it's relatively small beer.

 

[harms]

Sorry @harms, I know it's that annoying question, but how high are you defending here / how much control are you looking to achieve with the ball?


Agree that I'd associate him mainly as a back 4 man for Atletico, and as you say I think he played in the middle of a back 3 for Uruguay in the 2014 World Cup. That said, if it's my biggest quibble with Harms in the face of injuries then it's relatively small beer.

It's relatively deep, I'm certainly not going to push it up adventurously, especially against this front line. As for the control of the ball, I'm certainly going to contest it — I believe that my formation, especially with my fullbacks, gives me a great platform to do so even against the brilliant midfield unit that faces me.

As for Godin — yeah, sure. You have to consider Scirea's playing style though, the thing that I love about him the most is his very unique style of roaming around — not only vertically but horizontally as well. Especially when we're talking about the counters where the defensive shape is shifted/broken, he sniffed those out so masterfully. Ruggeri helps out wide more (due to his obvious experience) than Godin and in many cases I would expect Gaetano to move towards the danger with Godin holding down the fort.

It sounds very complicated but I'm sure that they can work it out — Godin stays centrally only covering out wide when it's really needed and Scirea popping up in crucial stages of transition — including but not limited to Brehme's right wing.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

OK. Tactical change:

Keane and Modric swapped.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

With both Alba and Godin out of sorts, it might just give my wing forwards the break they are looking for.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

This is tough (after the tactical change - harms was winning my vote before)

Passarella-Montero is a problem. So is Bravo when you see what the other end has to offer. And then it's up against those 3 giants.

But then, Edgar's midfield is too good. And his front 3 is spot on in sync.

Cannavaro would have sealed my vote.

Anyways, would have been a stone cold draw (which I hardly ever call) on another day, but since I want to vote on all games, am giving this to Edgar. Really harsh on harms but that midfield has my heart. And then there is Eusebio and Passarella, god knows I would love it if they win a draft together.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just voted. Am embarrassed to say the least.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

After the pre-match talk about injuries I'd assumed this would be uncompetitive but it's actually very difficult to decide a winner here. Edgar's midfield is a powerhouse unit and I can see them edging it in terms of control. Eusebio looks a menace with Elkjaer occupying the CBs, although he's likely to be as much Davids and Ruggeri's problem as Alba's, and Davids especially is a good fit to mitigate against his pace and power.

Harms looks formidable as expected, and that front three packs an incredible goal threat, although Greaves and Muller doesn't really leap off the teamsheet as a natural partnership to me. That's not to say it's dysfunctional per se, just that it doesn't seem like a duo that's quite as good as the sum of its parts. Open to persuasion on this though as I'm not sure I'm being fair at all.

I'd almost certainly refrain from voting here but for the spoils of war incentive, so I'll use the GKs as a tie breaker and go for Harms for now.

 

[Himannv]

I think Edgar's midfield is fantastic but his defence falls a bit short in terms of quality, which is a shame because I might have voted for him otherwise.

 

[General_Elegancia]

EAP‘s has an advantage in midfield,It is like 3 greats companion each other really perfectly against 2 (which is great too).I think EAP in this game has more possession for sure and Keane in the right is correct choice imho because he can cover Gerets who is very attack-minded rb.On Harms team they have better backline+gk and front(Graves+Zico+Muller),it’s a tough choice but I vote Harms for the quality of backline and attackers.

 

[Gio]

Love Edgar's midfield and attack. It's a trio in the centre that will command most of the ball I'd imagine. Can see his right flank tormenting Alba, but reckon Harms' tactics should protect against the threat of Eusebio bursting beyond his back line. Same for Boniek against Godin, whose pace could cause issues in wider areas. Think Zico will cause that defensive core - Redondo and Montero in particular - problems though.

 

[Jim Beam]

More calming presence alongside of Passarella and Edgar wins this for me. That attack and midfield is mouthwatering. Not only on paper. Roaming Elkjaer with Eusebio and Boniek behind is perfect to unsettle even that rock solid harms back 3.

The problem is Montero against Greaves and especially Muller, but looking at both midfield and attack I prefer Edgar's.

edit: oh yeah sorry, and without Claudio Bravo too (naturally, I didn't see goalkeepers at first )

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

So Cannavaro exits the tournament without even playing a single game!

Anyway, GG @harms .