Draft About Nothing - QF: Harms vs Indnyc

With players at their career peak, who would win? Edit


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Šjor Bepo

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vs


Harms
The idea was to build a team with a bit more flair than I usually do for it to suit George Best better. All of my defensive players are either good or excellent on the ball and were known for their distribution from the back (Boateng & Schmeichel) and even huge attacking prowess (Alves & young Cole). The midfield base also combines great engine with flair and creativity — both Falcão & Tigana played important roles in one of the most exciting teams of all-time. A bit more info on Özil later, but here he’s well-positioned to pick out the runners with his outstanding passing — but also, he’s free from the burden of leadership, so psychologically he’ll be closer to his Real Madrid & Germany version, which I actually rate very highly. He also has the ability or drift both left and right, which should be useful with my forwards.

The front line structure should not require much explanation. Just thinking of those three together is incredible — and in Law I have the perfect striker to facilitate finding a perfect balance up front. I’ll probably post more on Stanley Matthews, since I’d watched a few of his games lately and, as usual, found my perception of him a little flawed. He used to cut inside much more often that I would imagine, but rarely it was to shoot — mostly it was to act as an additional playmaker. He also used his left foot much more often than I expected, despite obviously preferring his right one, and even his sole international hat-trick included 2 left-footed goals.

Key duel: Stanley Matthews vs Marcos Rojo

Stanley Matthews is one of the most devastating dribblers of all-time who was known for single-handedly destroying his opponents time and again. The list of his victims from the game we can find on-line include the likes of Nilton Santos (Matthews was 41 at the time) & Karl-Heinz Schnellinger (Matthews was fecking 50!). And here we have Marcos Rojo.


Player focus: Mesut Özil

His reputation had currently hit the rock bottom, but we shouldn’t forget that Mesut was one of the most consistent chance creators of the past decade — and arguably the most productive one. I think he had the talent to become a truly all-time great, but, much like Laudrup, with whom I see many similarities, he lacked killer’s mentality & sheer drive and also (unlike Laudrup) preferred to be a cog in a machine rather than the star player of the side. At his best, relieved of unnecessary pressure, he got to the level when he was called the best number 10 in the game by Mourinho and when he had won 5 German national team PotY in the World Cup-winning generation.

Mind-blowing video. I expected him to be near the top, but to beat Messi (he overcame him only when Özil’s graph reached his current age), Fabregas & everyone else is an incredible achievement.


Also this is an achievement in its own — obviously, before De Bruyne came, he was the record-holder. But mind you, Özil came to a very average Arsenal side!




Indy
Similar tactics to round 1.

Cruyff with a free role. Rivaldo comes in to the side in place of Rocastle and Eddie Gray moves nominally to the right
 
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harms

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Matthews vs Rojo
Rivaldo vs Alves/Boateng

Tough.
Well, Alves has lots of successful games against Cristiano & while he is definitely not a Cafu/Zanetti, he's definitely an outstanding player who is not inadequate in the defensive phase. Boateng had put arguably a MotM performance in the World Cup final and has been one of the best (if not the best, like Sammer thinks) center back in the world for a few seasons.

Here's 36 y.o. Alves winning the MVP of 2019's Copa America as a right back. Take a look at defensive stats as well.



And then there's Marcos Rojo. If that choice is tough for you, I don't what to say :lol:
 

harms

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From zonalmarking.net (2011)

Defensive qualities
What Alves also offers Barcelona – frequently overlooked by many – is a good defensive presence on the right. As with all attacking full-backs, there’s a natural assumption that the player is not good defensively, but Alves’ game has improved immeasurably in this respect in recent years.

One could put forward the old argument that a top-class defender should not be sliding around and performing last-ditch blocks – a top-class defender should anticipate danger and pre-emptively stop it. That misses the point, though – as Alves is often told to play very high up the pitch on the right, he’s inevitably going to be dashing back and arriving just in time to get a block in. His incredible pace means he often gets in challenges other defenders would have been too sluggish to attempt, whilst he’s actually very good at anticipating opposition attacks when he’s in a position to do so. The video below shows his defensive skills well.
Before watching that, though, consider that the most important thing Alves gives Barcelona in a defensive sense is his brilliant ability to press for the entire game. Look out for him charging 40 yards up the pitch to close Joan Capdevilla down on 0:42 – it may be on the edge of the opponent’s penalty area, but that is still defending.

(the video is, sadly, deleted from YouTube, but you can find many of those)

In terms of pressing, Alves’ combination of speed and stamina makes him possibly the best player in the world for that style of football. Individually he’s fantastic, but there’s also a case for saying it sets the tone for the entire side. Just as Xavi is even more important to Barca than his basic individual contribution (because he sets an example with his short, neat passing) Alves does the same when Barcelona lose the ball, charging up the pitch to pressure opponents.
“Without the ball we are a disastrous team, a horrible team, so we need the ball”, Guardiola says. That’s an exaggeration, but it’s that attitude that results in Barca’s intent to win the ball high up the pitch. Alves should be part of the last line of defence, so his ability to cover the entire flank by himself and press from the front is amazing.
 

harms

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Also, since I want to highlight the players that don't get enough recognition (by myself as well as by the others), here's one of my favourite videos of Boateng, concentrated on his best quality — passing. His long passing from a center back position is really one of the best that I've seen.


His fantastic performance against Argentina in the World Cup final in a hybrid right/central role. The fact that he is comfortable in such role is especially important here, with both of Indnyc's star attackers preferring left channel and Alves being offensively-minded.

The Guardian, for example, named him Man of the Match ahead of Schweinsteiger & Lahm, both of whom had put in simply fantastic performances:

The Guardian said:
Jérôme Boateng 9

Made a vital clearance after a surging run from Messi and was always quick to snuff out danger. Quick, calm and authoritative, his displays in Brazil have been a revelation and he was man of the match
 

Gio

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Might be one of the weaker names on Harms' team-sheet, but Boateng fits here like a glove - pacey defence capable of playing a high line, vocal commanding keeper behind, dominant central midfield pair, play-stretching targets to get on the end of his threaded passing.

Cruyff and Rivaldo are a potentially devastating partnership though - what's the plan for dealing with Johan?
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Rojo facing Matthews and Alves is a big problem. Van Hanegem would of course help, but that is an easy route to goal. Although, I think Matthews and Alves as a pair is not ideal. Workable for sure, but I don't think it gets the best bits out of Alves.

Edwards is another interesting bit. I think Indy missed a tricked here. He should have played him as the LB. I have thought of playing him there in the past and think he would be excellent there.

His current role looks good as well considering Irwin would need help against Best but him at LB would have won my vote instantly.

Cruyff and Rivaldo look set to run rampage here as well. I don't rate Boateng in an all time context at all.

The lack of a proper holder also worries me as usual, especially against Cruyff. From the teamsheet, looks like Tigana is playing a more withdrawn role than usual.

Last game's work rate from Mazzola is missing as well and Ozil is a passenger in the defensive phase. Edwards/Hanegem/Kante/Cruyff might be a little overwhelming off and on the ball for Falcao/Tigana.

On Ozil, his biggest criticism has been going AWOL in big games at all his clubs. Don't think he'd influence a game with all time stars that much.

Not sure how to rate Hummels either. I'd probably rate him on par with Boateng.
 
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harms

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Rojo facing Matthews and Alves is a big problem. Van Hanegem would of course help, but that is an easy route to goal. Although, I think Matthews and Alves as a pair is not ideal. Workable for sure, but I don't think it gets the best bits out of Alves.
I wouldn't put them together in my ideal Matthews/Alves XI, but it was actually kind of inspired by your (I think) Zanetti comment (when you paired him with Garrincha) — Alves is also a right back that is not limited to just overlapping and can and will be involved in the middle if needed. 2019 Copa America final is a good example of that. Plus, Matthews was pretty much the opposite of Garrincha in terms of his approach, he was all about the team and that I really like about him.

But yeah, ideally I'd have someone who carried more of a goalthreat cutting in.
 

harms

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The lack of a proper holder also worries me as usual, especially against Cruyff. From the teamsheet, looks like Tigana is playing a more withdrawn role than usual.

Last game's work rate from Mazzola is missing as well and Ozil is a passenger in the defensive phase. Edwards/Hanegem/Kante/Cruyff might be a little overwhelming off and on the ball for Falcao/Tigana.
I was waiting for that :lol: Somehow it's only a problem in my team?

So you have no problem with no holder in Edwards/van Hanegem/Kante trio? Don't tell me that Kante is a holding midfielder, he's basically a Tigana/Davids-like omnipresent ball-winner with Drinkwater/Matic/Jorginho covering for him at the back.

Agree on Özil/Mazzola.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I was waiting for that :lol: Somehow it's only a problem in my team?

So you have no problem with no holder in Edwards/van Hanegem/Kante trio? Don't tell me that Kante is a holding midfielder, he's basically a Tigana/Davids-like omnipresent ball-winner with Drinkwater/Matic/Jorginho covering for him at the back.
I don't mind a Edwards/Hanegem/Kante trio as long as one of Kante and Edwards is at the base and not Van Hanegem. Looks really good to me to be honest, both on and off the ball. A diamond where all 4 players press really well can afford more liberties than a 4-2-3-1 with a passenger No.10 and a playmaker with decent workrate.

And I think a team facing Cruyff needs a holder way more than one facing Ozil.

I wouldn't put them together in my ideal Matthews/Alves XI, but it was actually kind of inspired by your (I think) Zanetti comment (when you paired him with Garrincha) — Alves is also a right back that is not limited to just overlapping and can and will be involved in the middle if needed. 2019 Copa America final is a good example of that. Plus, Matthews was pretty much the opposite of Garrincha in terms of his approach, he was all about the team and that I really like about him.

But yeah, ideally I'd have someone who carried more of a goalthreat cutting in.
I think @Gio paired Zanetti and Garrincha when he faced me and I criticized that as well.

I actually do agree with your point on Matthews not just being a dribble out wide and put a cross in sort of player. He was quite often the primary playmaker and moved centrally as you mentioned in the OP, which is why I think its surely workable.

But I'd put good money on Alves being replaced in the reinforcements if you go through. It doesnt feel ideal (not unworkable)
 
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harms

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But I'd put good money on Alves being replaced in the reinforcements if you go through. It doesnt feel ideal (not unworkable)
Depends on the pool. I don't want to replace him and he definitely won't be the first priority, but I'll see.
 

Indnyc

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Good luck @harms

I know Rojo is going to cost me but still feel Cruyff - Rivaldo should be able to do some damage to your defense.

And also i have been a strong advocate of Kante is better in a double pivot but in this case it works for him have Edwards as he can definitely cover allowing Hanegem to shine.. The midfield setup is really ideal for Hanegem to shine
 

Indnyc

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@Šjor Bepo could you switch the formation in the Op?



Slight tactical change to move van Hanegem and Edwards to provide more support to Rojo
 

Enigma_87

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Matthews vs Rojo is going to end only one way.

Indy has a very good team, but that left flank is going to cost him.
 

2mufc0

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Wtf @harms team looks final ready
 

harms

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You were unlucky not to get any reinforcements this round, it was a good team in the making. And also I wonder how the draft would’ve looked if the Cruyff deal were to go through.

The fact that you sold me Ashley Cole and lost the game because of his replacement is a bit ironic.

By the way, it may be just me, but I really don’t like Rivaldo - Cruyff combination, especially with Van Hanegem behind them. I really think that they would want to perform in a similar role here.
 

Moby

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You were unlucky not to get any reinforcements this round, it was a good team in the making. And also I wonder how the draft would’ve looked if the Cruyff deal were to go through.

The fact that you sold me Ashley Cole and lost the game because of his replacement is a bit ironic.

By the way, it may be just me, but I really don’t like Rivaldo - Cruyff combination, especially with Van Hanegem behind them. I really think that they would want to perform in a similar role here.
Agreed, I don't think it is a bad combination but Rivaldo is different from a few other wide forwards who were pretty much at their best off the ball cutting in and linking up with a #10/F9. With Rivaldo, some of his best performances came in the middle (we all know about his row with LvG regarding playing on the left) and he was great in the hole behind the striker fully controlling the game.

It's a bit of an underrating of what Rivaldo provides, e.g. in this role someone like Neymar can do exactly what Rivaldo is asked to do but Rivaldo can do so much more on the highest level when he's central to all the attacking play and is trusted with deciding the game.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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That's a really harsh scoreline.

Denis Law won the game for @harms here, so that was an inspired bit of business. After Indy outbid us on all 3 players and essentially gave us the chance to block 3 more players, had half a mind to do the same with Law, but that would just have been mean and not funny :lol:
 

harms

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That's a really harsh scoreline.

Denis Law won the game for @harms here, so that was an inspired bit of business. After Indy outbid us on all 3 players and essentially gave us the chance to block 3 more players, had half a mind to do the same with Law, but that would just have been mean and not funny :lol:
You've fecked me enough. Before your wildcard appearance I had Edgar under control and would've got both Desailly and Law :lol: Still, it was entertaining and it totally fecked a usually effective policy of late bidding.

Had to bid everything in the end as Edgar had all of his funds freed (and Law was an obvious fit for his formation).
 

Indnyc

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You were unlucky not to get any reinforcements this round, it was a good team in the making. And also I wonder how the draft would’ve looked if the Cruyff deal were to go through.

The fact that you sold me Ashley Cole and lost the game because of his replacement is a bit ironic.

By the way, it may be just me, but I really don’t like Rivaldo - Cruyff combination, especially with Van Hanegem behind them. I really think that they would want to perform in a similar role here.
Cheers.. Good luck in the next round..
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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You've fecked me enough. Before your wildcard appearance I had Edgar under control and would've got both Desailly and Law :lol: Still, it was entertaining and it totally fecked a usually effective policy of late bidding.

Had to bid everything in the end as Edgar had all of his funds freed (and Law was an obvious fit for his formation).
I would have loved to get Law in auction. :D

My upgrade priorities were Zagallo, Shearer and then Liedholm. @Physiocrat screwed me by not nominating Henry and Puskas too, and you took Law :lol: