Draft About Nothing - R1: Physiocrat vs Harms

With players at their career peak, who would win?


  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,552

vs


Physio
Formation
- 4411

Defensive Line - Deep

Marking - Zonal

Style - counter attacking through Overath, Batista and Tresor's passing unleashing Littbarski, Robben and Blokhin. The devastating pace and dribbling of these three will create loads of chances for the most clinical striker in history, Der Bomber. The front two and wingers are highly industrious so will engage in counter-pressing to allow the rest of the team to get back into their positions for the defensive phase.

Two banks of four with great work rate and positional nous plus the extremely industrious Muller and Blokhin will provide one of the most immovable buses of all-time. Even if harms' players infiltrates the bus, they will not survive Harald Schumacher.

Info on some lesser known players -

Jimmy Armfield - has great chest hair and was one of the first overlapping right-backs. Had good positioning and was a strong tackler. Hailed as "the best right back in the world" during the 1962 World Cup. Also voted the best right back in Europe between 1962 and 1964.

Sergio Batista - The defensive shield for Argentina's 1986 World Cup winning side. An excellent reader of the game, solid tackler and a tidy passer.

Paolo Montero - Uruguay legend playing for them for 14 years. Considered by Giggs and Ferrara to be the "toughest defender they played against". Not only was he a combative and tenacious defender who was also an intelligent defender and skilful on the ball.



Harms
General tactics

The idea was to built a team suited to play a possession-based football in an entertaining manner. All three of my midfielders were magical with the ball and had a great engine to boot — and the addition of Alves and Best will guarantee some breath-taking attacking plays all over the pitch.

Personally, I think that both my goalkeeper, my defence and my midfield are a notch above Physiocrat's. Especially his midfield is something that I struggle to visualise (I guess he can play Litti centrally or use one of his sheep), and that's where the game would be won. His front three is absolutely devastating, but I think I've covered it quite effectively. Müller will probably score, but I'll score more. I wouldn't be surprised if Best or one of my midfielders will be the reason behind Montero's sending off.

Dani Alves is pretty important for this team and you'll see that I chose him over Matthews (Faubert can play both roles), because I believe that he'll be a bigger influence here. A good lyrical video about him by Tifo:

Why Faubert?

I have opted for Faubert in the place of Stanley Matthews for this game and, hopefully, it'll pay off. After watching some of his games, I was positively impressed by his skillset, despite his hopeless stint at Real Madrid. Nicknamed "The express train" he was built very much like Valencia — huge and insanely fast, and also played both as a winger and as a fullback (I'll post some highlights in the thread). His main task would be to adjust to Alves' movement, who is given pretty much a free reign on the right. It's also important to limit Physio's threat from the wings, so I have Tigana and Jonquet covering for Cole on the left and Vierchowod and Faubert covering for Alves on the right.

Fantastic through-ball

A pretty standard for him run and cross

Also a trademark piece from him — a strong shot from outside the box

In focus: Robert Jonquet

Robert Jonquet will be forever remembered in France as a key figure in one of their biggest "what if" moments. On the 37' minute of the 1958 World Cup semi-final between France and Brazil, Vava broke Jonquet's leg in two places. There were no substitutions at the time, so they didn't only lost their best defender, they were forced to finish the game with only 10 players. With Jonquet on the pitch, France were as good as Brazil and equalised through Fontaine, seven minutes after the Brazilians had gone ahead. But two minutes after his departure, Didi scored, and in the second half Pele hit three more to round off a 5-2 victory.

Jonquet's club career was even more impressive. With Stade de Reimse he had won 5 league titles and reached 4 European finals — 2 European Cup and 1 Latino Cup finals were lost to Di Stefano's Real Madrid, but they've managed to beat AC Milan 3:0 to win Latino Cup in 1953.

"Football," Jonquet was wont to say, "is made to create, not to destroy." Few centre-halves of his time had such a philosophy. He was adept at coolly bringing the ball down with his chest, composed in the penalty box, before stroking it accurately to a colleague. Timing and anticipation were the essence of his game. Frankly, I haven't seen a better ball-playing defender in the 50's, not that the competition is very impressive though. He was widely recognised as one of the best center backs in the world — in 1955 he featured in the Great Britain vs The Rest of Europe game and in 1956 he was a Ballon d'Or nominee. When IFFHS compiled their century elections, he was voted 6th best outfield player in France's history:

 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Frankly, while Physio's side is obviously well-suited for a counter-attacking football, I just don't see his team as "one of the most immovable buses of all-time". A midfield 4 of Littbarski, Overath, Batista and Robben is also hardly an uber-defensive midfield that's going to negate everything around it.

With Best and Mazzola buzzing around, Paolo Montero, a man who holds the record for the most sending-offs in Serie A history (16 times in the league alone) is a questionable choice.
And I've stated earlier (so it's not just a bs to win this argument) that I don't rate Tresor as an all-time great defender, although he was obviously a very good one — I always found him lacking a bit to be put in a higher tier.
Same with Abidal, who was a great cog in Pep's Barca, but his actual strength was his versatility and intelligence to keep up the high defensive line — I'm not sure how well he is suited to parking the bus.
Armfield had faced Best 2 times — best scored the only goal in one game and, sadly, I haven't been able to find anything on the second one (no reviews & no highlights), where Denis Law scored 2. I wouldn't be surprised if Best contributed to it, but there's no way of knowing.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
On the other hand, Ashley Cole has a fantastic record against Arjen Robben. I don’t need to highlight Cole’s defensive prowess, but I’m still going to. In 8 games against Cole Robben managed to score twice… both of those goals came in the last game, when Cole was basically retired at Roma. In 7 competitive games that they’ve played against each other at their respective peaks (including 3 finals), Robben failed to score against him.

While Alves is usually highlighted as a defensive weakness, he had many good games against Cristiano, for example. With Vierchowod and hardworking RB/RW in Faubert he is well-suited to face Litti — and Physiocrat's tactics play to my hands. This means that most of the time Alves would do what he does best — actively participate in the attacking phase of the game, while our opponent is sitting back.
 

Zlatan 7

We've got bush!
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
11,531
Great write up and tactics from both teams. Got a lot to learn from you two
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Breaking down a team that defends deep

I think all of us know how hard it is for a team to break down the parked bus. United had been struggling for a while with it now, as we are very limited with our defensive options — most of our forwards are comfortable only when there is a free space before them. Thankfully, I have many ways to break it.

  1. Elite dribblers. When Barca faced a parked bus, they usually tried to pass the ball around to stretch the opposition's defence in order to find a gap and make a decisive pace through there. But even with the likes of Xavi and Iniesta present, it didn't always work. Thankfully, they've had Lionel Messi and Andreas Iniesta, who were able to turn the game around in a space of a few seconds. With their immaculate dribbling they either dribbled past their markers to find themselves through to the goal, or lured away more defenders on them to make a space for their teammate (classic Messi's pass over the top to the left wing). In George Best and Sandro Mazzola (and also Jean Tigana & Paulo Roberto Falcão if it comes to that) I have elite dribblers that are capable of executing any of the 2 scenarios.
  2. Shooting from a distance. Obviously, there's another option. When a team is defending too deep, your midfielders can find a way to take a clear shot — my favourite example of this would be Paul Breitner's goal against Chile in 1974. Figueroa stopped everything that came into the box, but his whole team was positioned too deep — then Breitner took the ball and shoot it right in the top corner from the top of the box. This is not something that every player can do, but I have Falcão, Mazzola and Alves, all known for those shots.
  3. Mourinho way — aim for the big man. And, finally, I have a reserve option — a huge presence of Harry Kane inside the box. Even Guardiola sometimes prefers to simply cross it (I think against Southampton City recorded 36 crosses). In Kane I have a great, tall and aggressive goalscorer and around him there are many smart players ready for a weird rebound. In Alves & Best I also have one of the best crossers of all-time. Transfermarkt also has Ashley Cole on 69 assists throughout the career.
    Guardiola said:
    Because they defended with 11 players on the penalty spot. In the 18-yard box they defended like a tree. They allowed you to go outside but not inside

Video evidence.

Dribbling:

Shooting from a distance (there are many more, but this is my favourite):
Mazzola's brace in the European Cup final:
Falcão's World Cup classics against one of the greatest deep-sitting defences of all-time:

He's no Gerd Müller, but this is what our striker can do:
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,377
Don't think there was a need for a deep defensive line and a counter attacking setup @Physiocrat

That is a beautiful 4411/442 and I don't think harms' team is scary enough to deserve the respect of a deep line. At least not in this round.

I would have also changed the setup a little bit. Robben on the left and Litti on the right.

1. Robben can stay up top on the left to punish Alves' advances on counters. There is hardly a need for him to score with Muller and Blokhin up front.
2. Litti on right to help out against George would be priceless here

On team harms, not much to say except my usual crap. I don't find Tigana-Falcao a great pairing. I am sure harms will disagree as usual but that is fine. Solid team and arguments otherwise.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
On team harms, not much to say except my usual crap. I don't find Tigana-Falcao a great pairing. I am sure harms will disagree as usual but that is fine. Solid team and arguments otherwise.
I kinda agree when Falcão & Neeskens, I think, were paired with Netzer, but here I have a defensive box-to-box Tigana (not an offensive one like Neeskens), a complete playmaker in Falcão & a hard-working attacking midfielder in Mazzola (not your typical number 10). I think you've argued for Charlton for my F&N team, this is as close as it gets.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,377
I kinda agree when Falcão & Neeskens, I think, were paired with Netzer, but here I have a defensive box-to-box Tigana (not an offensive one like Neeskens), a complete playmaker in Falcão & a hard-working attacking midfielder in Mazzola (not your typical number 10). I think you've argued for Charlton for my F&N team, this is as close as it gets.
Yea you make a better case here than with Falcao and Neeskens.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

We mean it man, we love our queen!
Joined
Oct 11, 2018
Messages
6,377
I don't think harms' team is scary enough to deserve the respect of a deep line. At least not in this round.
Just realized you might have done this with Matthews in the mix as well where it makes sense. Without him, I think this is counter productive
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,340
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
I don't really get the criticism against Montero, Abidal and Tresor. They are well suited for the roles in here. The quality of players is a level below harms possibly two, but then Gerd Muller against that midfield is capable of turning the game himself.

Harms midfield is mouth watering but sorely needs a defensive player to balance it out. Tigana-Falcao somehow feels off, esp with Mazzola ahead. And I absolutely don't rate Harry Kane. Yet Best-Mazzola is too good to ignore and will get better of Batista.

The deep counter tactics helps shut down space for Best and Mazzola, but....even with less possession and opportunities, a Muller goal may be the difference.

Too close. Will vote later.
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,298
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Is there a real reason why Faubert is playing ahead of Matthews?
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Is there a real reason why Faubert is playing ahead of Matthews?
He impressed me with his attitude in training.

Seriously though, we have to play of all our players in the first 2 rounds, so I went out on a limb and played Faubert in the first one. It's unlucky that I've faced a team as strong as Physio, but I figured that if I were to get to the second round, the opponent after reinforcements would be even stronger. This is a huge risk, obviously, but his additional workrate would be also welcomed against a team with such strong wings. I'm glad that this gave me a chance to discover him for myself as a decent player and not as a running Real Madrid joke, I didn't know much about his career before that to be honest :)
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Harms midfield is mouth watering but sorely needs a defensive player to balance it out. Tigana-Falcao somehow feels off, esp with Mazzola ahead. And I absolutely don't rate Harry Kane. Yet Best-Mazzola is too good to ignore and will get better of Batista.
Why "especially with Mazzola ahead"? Mazzola worked his socks off and this was the reason why he was usually preferred to a more talented Rivera for the national team. Plus, he was not really a playmaker, so he doesn't overlap much with Falcão. Tigana is a defensive player first and foremost, even though he is probably the most elegant ball-winning midfielder ever. Would you consider a Keane - Falcão midfield unbalanced?
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
Frankly, while Physio's side is obviously well-suited for a counter-attacking football, I just don't see his team as "one of the most immovable buses of all-time". A midfield 4 of Littbarski, Overath, Batista and Robben is also hardly an uber-defensive midfield that's going to negate everything around it.
It is a very hard working midfield four and an especially strong defensive unit when you take into account Blokhin and Muller both of whom were exceptionally hard working and will make it very difficult for you on the break. Also Littbarski on the left allows a more compact midfield four than you might typically have.

With Best and Mazzola buzzing around, Paolo Montero, a man who holds the record for the most sending-offs in Serie A history (16 times in the league alone) is a questionable choice.
He often played as an LCB at Juventus which meant that he would often need to move more outwide where he was less comfortable and was more rash. In a back four next to a relatively defensive left back in a counter-attacking system means he can stay central and play to his strengths which in this case will be bullying Kane (not also here Kane has a poor big game record, best exemplified with England in the 2016 World Cup when he dried up in the knock-out phases) Montero was also quite cultured on the ball. This was the best video I could find of him on YouTube -


Same with Abidal, who was a great cog in Pep's Barca, but his actual strength was his versatility and intelligence to keep up the high defensive line — I'm not sure how well he is suited to parking the bus.
Whilst he worked well in a high line he was hardly a system player and a good defending left-back, certainly a better defender than Alves. Alves will have a much harder time against Littbarski than Abidal vs Faubert

Armfield had faced Best 2 times — best scored the only goal in one game and, sadly, I haven't been able to find anything on the second one (no reviews & no highlights), where Denis Law scored 2. I wouldn't be surprised if Best contributed to it, but there's no way of knowing.
The latter game was in 1970/71 season much after Armfield's early '60s peak. For those unfamiliar with him see this-


Regarding the way to break down a deep defence, I would agree with you but add one other crucial point - expert passing and vision which you don't have within your front four. Mazzola was best in a counter-attacking side where he would have more space to work in. Someone like Rivera would have been a much better player to break my side down.

To the positives of my side I'd like to highlight Batista to start. he was an intelligent and defensively astute player who was good on the ball and would be able to send the ball forward quickly and accurately in counters.


Clearly my best passer in midfield is Overath. Often underatted relative to Netzer but he was a complete midfielder with excellent passing and dogged defensive contribution. He's a highlights video of him at World Cups and imagine him supplying Blokhin, Littbarski and Robben.


Finally the man who has been somewhat anonymous so far, Blokhin. The Balon d'or winning forward who had electric pace and dribbling ability would cause any CM and CBs terrible problems especially as he has the freedom to drift both left and right so would be very difficult to pick up.

Overall I think the main issue with harms' side is that he misses an elite final third passer and a top target man. Without them he is mostly reliant on just dribbling which will be difficult against a deep defense. I have the tools to exploit the space on the counter and have the pace and power plust the all-time great finishing of the Der Bomber to win this.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
Just realized you might have done this with Matthews in the mix as well where it makes sense. Without him, I think this is counter productive
I really wasn't sure how he would setup. My plan was originally counter-attacking and liked having Blokhin to terrorise on the counter.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Finally the man who has been somewhat anonymous so far, Blokhin. The Balon d'or winning forward who had electric pace and dribbling ability would cause any CM and CBs terrible problems especially as he has the freedom to drift both left and right so would be very difficult to pick up.
I like the use of Blokhin centrally... but not with Litti and Robben on the wings. This takes a lot from Robben, for example. If you want Blokhin in a front 2, which is a great option, you'd want to have more orthodox wingers/wide midfielders there, not wingforwards. You wanted to play all your best players together, as you don't have another good midfielder, but I don't see it as a great fit for him. Especially since only Overath is your genuine playmaker and he's right in the middle of a very aggressive and energetic midfield unit of mine — if I'll close Overath, you'll struggle in transitions.

Overall I think the main issue with harms' side is that he misses an elite final third passer and a top target man. Without them he is mostly reliant on just dribbling which will be difficult against a deep defense. I have the tools to exploit the space on the counter and have the pace and power plust the all-time great finishing of the Der Bomber to win this.
I think with three of Falcão, Tigana & Mazzola on the pitch I don't really have a problem with elite final third passers. If anything, it's your team that is overly dependent on Overath, who is the only one of your midfielders & defenders who can consistently pick out Blokhin/Müller/Robben on a counter. It's hard to defend Kane in an all-time draft and I'm not going to pretend that I wouldn't like someone like Müller in his place, but to be fair to him, he has no real weaknesses and he had proven to be an outstanding goalscorer against any opposition at any level. I certainly don't see Tresor or Montero as someone who will be able to easily contain him, even though Kane himself looks out of place in an all-time draft.
 

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,437
Blokhin/Müller is just a devastating combination, absolute nightmare to defend against. Add Robben, Littbarski & Overath, and it's a hell of a threat in transition. Insofar I get Physio's idea of playing on the counter. (Although I must say I'd have them play more proactively.)

But I think harms' question about the suitability of that backline for such a setup is valid, I'm especially thinking of the two rather short CBs against Kane.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Just a nice picture :drool:

25th February 1967. Manchester United winger George Best out jumping Blackpool and England full back Jimmy Armfield, at Old Trafford



"He was a free spirit on and off the pitch and the first of football's glamor pusses," Jimmy Armfield, who played against Best numerous times for his side Blackpool, told CNN Sport on the 10th anniversary of his death.

"The aura around him added to his game -- he was playing in the swinging sixties and his game lent itself to the media. I think he reveled in that side of it."

Armfield, who played 43 times for England between 1953 and 1966, agrees the playboy side of Best's character only adds to his legend.

"It certainly is part of it," he added. "You can't change a man and that is what he was but it didn't take away from his terrific ability. That's what I remember him for."

Georgie Best vs poor Jimmy:
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Just one of the outstanding performances by Ashley Cole vs the peak version of Arjen Robben.

 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,298
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Blokhin/Müller is just a devastating combination, absolute nightmare to defend against. Add Robben, Littbarski & Overath, and it's a hell of a threat in transition. Insofar I get Physio's idea of playing on the counter. (Although I must say I'd have them play more proactively.)
Absolutely, Blokhin, Robben and Littbarski swirling around on the break would be devastating. The question to me is to what extent their attacking contribution will be blunted by a deep-lying four-man midfield straitjacket.

But I think harms' question about the suitability of that backline for such a setup is valid, I'm especially thinking of the two rather short CBs against Kane.
Think Montero matches up pretty well. In fact if we look at left-sided physical centre-backs for Juventus, Chiellini did a great job against him in the Champions League last year.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
I like the use of Blokhin centrally... but not with Litti and Robben on the wings. This takes a lot from Robben, for example. If you want Blokhin in a front 2, which is a great option, you'd want to have more orthodox wingers/wide midfielders there, not wingforwards. You wanted to play all your best players together, as you don't have another good midfielder, but I don't see it as a great fit for him. Especially since only Overath is your genuine playmaker and he's right in the middle of a very aggressive and energetic midfield unit of mine — if I'll close Overath, you'll struggle in transitions.
You ignore Batista's passing ability. Whilst not on the level of Overath he is perfectly capable of being a solid outlet for transitions. Tresor and Montero were no mugs on the ball either. It's not as if the ball goes nowhere if Overath is blocked off.

Also Littbarski was hardly a wingforward as such. He was excellent in a facilitating LCM role for Germany, not identical to his role here but not that far off. Also Robben played pretty much as an orthodox right-winger at Bayern especially when Pep went all false full-back. If I had say Dinho and CR7 on the wings I would agree with you but Littbarski and Robben were excellent providers who could also score.

I think with three of Falcão, Tigana & Mazzola on the pitch I don't really have a problem with elite final third passers.
I wouldn't call any of them truly elite when it comes to passing. They were rather excellent all-rounders and your 10 hit his peak in a counter-attacking setup.

And again Jimmy Armfield was 35 in that game against Best in 1970. Way after his peak which you could say given the newspaper quotes was in 1962, which is reasonable as he was 27 then.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
You ignore Batista's passing ability. Whilst not on the level of Overath he is perfectly capable of being a solid outlet for transitions. Tresor and Montero were no mugs on the ball either.
I wouldn't call any of them truly elite when it comes to passing. They were rather excellent all-rounders and your 10 hit his peak in a counter-attacking setup.
You need to set one set of standards here. There's no world where Batista, Tresor and Montero are good enough to be considered but Falcão and Tigana aren't elite :lol:
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Especially with a certain George Best as a creative outlet and Dani Alves, who was an assist-making machine (often outshining both Xavi and Iniesta in that regard) — not only with crossing. There can be different criticisms about my team, but not about a fecking impotence in the final third passing, especially when you only have Overath and maybe Litti as great creators.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
You need to set one set of standards here. There's no world where Batista, Tresor and Montero are good enough to be considered but Falcão and Tigana aren't elite :lol:
Sorry, I edited out part of my argument and didn't put it back in. My point is that a final third specialist is crucial to breaking down a deep defence. Exceptional passing ability is not required as much in a counter attacking setup hence the differing standards I'm applying. Dribbling and ball carrying get you further in a counter attacking setup than in a possession setup against a deep defence. That's my main point here.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
The absurd thing is that you've bid everything on your defence, although you didn't have to, but it's not good enough to justify this decision. Robben, Blokhin & Müller in a counter-attacking system are just brilliant, but parking the bus with your defenders? Not so much. My uncreative midfielders outwitted better defences than yours.

Not good enough to break down a defence of Tresor and Montero:

1. Paulo Roberto Falcão (only focused on a little bit of his final third passing)

2. Jean Tigana vs Juventus, against a vintage deep-lying backline lead by Scirea & Cabrini (they're not Tresor & Abidal though)

Sandro Mazzola & George Best were brilliant, creative and unpredictable and could hurt you with their passing as well as their dribbling or goalscoring.

Even my right back can do this — a perfect Guardiola-proven recipe against any tight defence, one-touch passing:
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,298
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
Also Littbarski was hardly a wingforward as such. He was excellent in a facilitating LCM role for Germany, not identical to his role here but not that far off. Also Robben played pretty much as an orthodox right-winger at Bayern especially when Pep went all false full-back. If I had say Dinho and CR7 on the wings I would agree with you but Littbarski and Robben were excellent providers who could also score.
Agree fully on Littbarski. You've carved out a nice role for him here.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,340
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
but parking the bus with your defenders?
Deep defensive line is not really the same as parking the bus. You tell your fullbacks to defend first and attack then and you have a deep defensive line. Parking the bus is totally different concept.

Plus with a deep defensive line, it also starves your forwards of space to exploit. You cannot claim a deep defensive line will affect his forwards but not yours. Against Best, I can see the rationale for a counter based approach.

You'll have lots of possession but I just can't see Kane scoring. Best is your primary goalscorer.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Deep defensive line is not really the same as parking the bus. You tell your fullbacks to defend first and attack then and you have a deep defensive line. Parking the bus is totally different concept.

Plus with a deep defensive line, it also starves your forwards of space to exploit. You cannot claim a deep defensive line will affect his forwards but not yours. Against Best, I can see the rationale for a counter based approach.

You'll have lots of possession but I just can't see Kane scoring. Best is your primary goalscorer.
Literally in the OP.

Two banks of four with great work rate and positional nous plus the extremely industrious Muller and Blokhin will provide one of the most immovable buses of all-time. Even if harms' players infiltrates the bus, they will not survive Harald Schumacher.
 

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,437
Think Montero matches up pretty well. In fact if we look at left-sided physical centre-backs for Juventus, Chiellini did a great job against him in the Champions League last year.
I don't remember the exact tactical setting of these games, but a notable difference is that Chiellini (1.87) is about as tall as Kane (1.88). Montero and Tresor are listed at 1.79 and 1.82 respectively. Now, I can't say if one of these two was a Cannavaro-esque leaping ability miracle, but if not, harms' strategy of trying to find the big man with crosses looks like a good tactic against them.
 
Last edited:

Synco

Lucio's #1 Fan
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
6,437
Especially since only Overath is your genuine playmaker and he's right in the middle of a very aggressive and energetic midfield unit of mine — if I'll close Overath, you'll struggle in transitions. (...)

If anything, it's your team that is overly dependent on Overath, who is the only one of your midfielders & defenders who can consistently pick out Blokhin/Müller/Robben on a counter.
I don't see Physio's team as being overly reliant on a CM playmaker to play the forwards through. I'd imagine them to operate more on fluid off the ball movement & quick short passes to get into free spaces. All forwards/wingers are perfect for that style imo, including the ability to provide deep options in transition, and there seems to be enough overall passing ability to get them into play. (Although not as much as in your team, obviously.) I also think Overath's agility & mobility should make it hard to shut him down completely over 90 minutes.
I think with three of Falcão, Tigana & Mazzola on the pitch I don't really have a problem with elite final third passers.
Totally agree with that.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
I don't see Physio's team as being overly reliant on a CM playmaker to play the forwards through. I'd imagine them to operate more on fluid off the ball movement & quick short passes to get into free spaces. All forwards/wingers are perfect for that style imo, including the ability to provide deep options in transition, and there seems to be enough overall passing ability to get them into play. (Although not as much as in your team, obviously.) I also think Overath's agility & mobility should make it hard to shut him down completely over 90 minutes.
Exactly the point I was trying to make but better put.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
Gerd Müller already celebrates his late-minute winner when he hears that the crowd's cheer had stopped abruptly. Instead, there is a confused murmur coming from the stands. He turns around to see Harry Kane standing next to the referee with the ball in his hands. He reclaimed it!

 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
27,952
Location
Moscow
It was a tough game, @Physiocrat. Your front 2 (3 if you count Robben) is just pure filth, even though I'm not the biggest fan of the rest of your team. Really wanted to get someone other than you in this round. Looks like you still have a chance to continue though — I think you have the most votes for a losing team so far and we have a bonus game.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,914
It was a tough game, @Physiocrat. Your front 2 (3 if you count Robben) is just pure filth, even though I'm not the biggest fan of the rest of your team. Really wanted to get someone other than you in this round. Looks like you still have a chance to continue though — I think you have the most votes for a losing team so far and we have a bonus game.
Good game harms. It's not my favourite side I ever put together although with the constraints and lack of planning you can do, I was reasonably pleased with my side.