Draft About Nothing - SF: Harms vs EAP

[Jim Beam]

versus

Harms

My team will set up to play on the counter, although in no way am I parking the bus. The idea is to reduce space for Blokhin & Kalle as much as possible and to exploit the pace and trickery of my attackers to the maximum effect. Cannavaro joins the team and assumes the role of the defensive leader — his experience in different formations, including the role of a wide center back in Parma’s back three, is crucial with an attacking full back such as Alves on his right. Robben starts ahead of Matthews on the right — while individually it’s hard to pick the best out of the two, the Dutchman is a more natural fit next to Dani Alves, one of the players I’ve built my side around.

George Best has 5 consecutive seasons with 20+ goals; Mazzola has 3; Robben scored 144 goals in 309 games for Bayern Munich & Law’s goalscoring prowess is not something I need to even comment on. All of them were proper big game players — I’m sure others are even more well-known, but Mazzola, for example, finished as a European Cup’s top scorer in 1964/65 after scoring a goal in each of the semi-finals against Borussia Dortmund and providing a match-winning brace in the final against Real Madrid.

Edgar’s attack, on the other hand, heavily relies on his two forwards, as neither of his midfielders were really prolific. The Blokhin - Rummenigge pair was successfully used before as the ultimate forward partnership for a goalscoring number 10 like Platini, where their ability to go wide and stretch the opposition’s defence was as important as their clinical finishing. Here, they carry all of the goalscoring responsibility on their shoulders. Also, both, exceptional players that they were, are better suited for a more direct and counter-attacking system with lots of space to exploit… and Edgar’s set of midfielders, as well as my tactics, is more suited for a possession-based game.

Rummenigge faces Ashley Cole, one of the best defensive left backs of all-time & probably the toughest opponent Cristiano ever had, and Pietro Vierchowod. Kalle stated multiple times on the record that Vierchowod was one of the most difficult defenders to play against, always adding the fact that he still managed to score against him… which he didn’t. He faced Vierchowod 5 times in his career and failed to score in any of those games and the goal against Sampdoria he so often remembers happened when Vierchowod wasn’t even in the matchday squad.

Blokhin’s direct opponent, Dani Alves, is one of the few fullbacks that has a pace and energy to keep up with him, as he showed multiple times against the likes of Cristiano. I don’t expect him to handle Blokhin on his own though — and in Cannavaro & Tigana he has the best cover he can wish for.


EAP

Formation: WM / 3-2-3-2

Tactics: Compact defence, dominant midfield and smooth linkup/transition to overwhelming attack.

Writeup: Tl;dr version

Compact Defence with complementary and versatile players. Balanced offence in possession and enough bodies in middle to dominate opposition. Complimentary offence with all players capable of creating for others and scoring for themselves.

 

[Jim Beam]

@harms please set up a poll, thanks

good luck @harms @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Good luck @harms

 

[harms]

I expected a different set up and to be fair, I think that team would've been a tougher challenge. There's such a weird mix of different styles in the likes of Xavi, Shearer and Blokhin, Kalle is stuck as an outside right (out of the two I think Blokhin would've been a better fit in a pure wide role and Kalle would've been more comfortable up front and vice versa)... and the defence is not suited to deal with my attack at all.

On the other hand, Vierchowod has all the attributes to match Shearer, Cannavaro with his mobility and experience outwide is a good fit for Blokhin and my weakest (defensively) defender is up against the weakest (that's a bit harsh, but a competition is too good) attacker on the pitch.

 

[harms]

Good luck @harms

And to you!

 

[Jim Beam]

Yashin - Netto - Blokhin... Hm

 

[Jim Beam]

Ok, Edgar the Mute...

Zagallo? Was he a good crosser and can he provide that? As I don't agree with harms at all and think it is a brilliant team except for Shearer who is pointless if the answer for the first questions is no.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Zagallo? Was he a good crosser and can he provide that?

Yes he was. Pretty neat fit.

I don't like Kalle there though.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Couple of observations on harms team

1) Most of harms star players are good on the ball. Best, Falcao, Mazzola and even Robben (who claimed Pep to be his favorite manager) need time and space to shine and a counter attacking football won't bring best of them. This midfield would struggle to impose in this game esp against a crowded one like mine.

2) Shearer is bull in China shop. His presence to occupy defenders would create ample space for Blokhin and Kalle to score. Also between my attackers, Shearer himself will have ample opportunities to score.

3) Netto - Zagallo - Blokhin will be the kryptonite for Dani Alves. He's a defender who's likely to leave space behind....as he's supposed to support Robben. And we'll take advantage.

4)

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Shearer ruins a potential upset here

 

[Synco]

1) Most of harms star players are good on the ball. Best, Falcao, Mazzola and even Robben (who claimed Pep to be his favorite manager) need time and space to shine and a counter attacking football won't bring best of them. This midfield would struggle to impose in this game esp against a crowded one like mine.

Disagree here. Also, if there's one thing a counter setup provides for attacking players, it's space. I've seen little of Mazzola, but Grande Inter was a defensive stalwart alright - would need to know more of your reasoning there.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Don't understand the Shearer dislike.

It's far from a typical Xavi team. The service is really diverse and I think an all round striker like Shearer would thrive alongside Blokhin/Kalle.

Only one of Blokhin/Kalle was required here and a more pure creator on right would have been awesome.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Ok, Edgar the Mute...

Zagallo? Was he a good crosser and can he provide that? As I don't agree with harms at all and think it is a brilliant team except for Shearer who is pointless if the answer for the first questions is no.

Yes. There's record of him providing assists to Pele who scored header off his crosses.

Plus his role is to exploit spaces behind Alves and open up for Blokhin.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Don't understand the Shearer dislike.

It's far from a typical Xavi team. The service is really diverse and I think an all round striker like Shearer would thrive alongside Blokhin/Kalle.

Only one of Blokhin/Kalle was required here and a more pure creator on right would have been awesome.

because he sticks out like a sore thumb, edgar built a lovely foundation for a great possession heavy system(which is pretty much his best chance against the monster team that harms built) and then out of nowhere you have Alan fecking Shearer up front....to do what exactly?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

edgar built a lovely foundation for a great possession heavy system

No where in the OP it says he plans to play possession football. You can overwhelm the opposition and still dominate possession stats without playing one touch football.

Without Liedholm, it's hardly what you are describing it as.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

@harms why didn't you go Mcgrath instead of Cannavaro?

Not a fan of that CB pairing while Vierchowod McGrath would have been awesome.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

because he sticks out like a sore thumb, edgar built a lovely foundation for a great possession heavy system(which is pretty much his best chance against the monster team that harms built) and then out of nowhere you have Alan fecking Shearer up front....to do what exactly?

That went out of window once Iniesta got blocked. You still have Xavi-Busquets axis plus Netto, but this would be a more balanced team capable of transitions. Shearer is there to hold defenders whilst Kalle and Blokhin stretch and shine. My attack has far more goals than his.

 

[harms]

@harms why didn't you go Mcgrath instead of Cannavaro?

Not a fan of that CB pairing while Vierchowod McGrath would have been awesome.

Because overall I rate Cannavaro higher, he is the best choice to cover for Alves here and I don't see literally any problems with Vierchowod - Cannavaro pairing. Cannavaro's best ever performance came next to Materazzi on whom Vierchowod is an upgrade in any possible way aside from the useful cuntishness.

 

[Jim Beam]

My attack has far more goals than his.

Brave statement considering Best - Robben - Law there.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

No where in the OP it says he plans to play possession football. You can overwhelm the opposition and still dominate possession stats without playing one touch football.

Without Liedholm, it's hardly what you are describing it as.

Where did i say he will play possesion? I said he had great foundation for it as every player bar shearer and maybe briegel.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

That went out of window once Iniesta got blocked. You still have Xavi-Busquets axis plus Netto, but this would be a more balanced team capable of transitions. Shearer is there to hold defenders whilst Kalle and Blokhin stretch and shine. My attack has far more goals than his.

Could have been done without iniesta imo

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't see literally any problems with Vierchowod - Cannavaro pairing.

Wow, okay. Maybe it's just me who doesn't find it complimentary. Way too similar for my liking

 

[harms]

My attack has far more goals than his.

It does? How so? You have Shearer with only Zagallo getting the crosses in; Law was just as prolific and I'd argue that Law has a better service. Best, Mazzola and Robben all had multiple 20+ goals seasons and all of them are playing at their peak position (unlike Rummenigge). I have 4 prolific scorers to your 3 — and Zagallo & Xavi hardly bring any goals.

Most of harms star players are good on the ball. Best, Falcao, Mazzola and even Robben (who claimed Pep to be his favorite manager) need time and space to shine and a counter attacking football won't bring best of them. This midfield would struggle to impose in this game esp against a crowded one like mine.

Best, Robben and fecking Sandro Mazzola don't fit a counter-attacking football? Perhaps you can try to argue with Falcão, but he played in a very direct Roma side.

Shearer is bull in China shop.

You mean this China shop?

Vierchowod was an animal, he had muscles to the eyelashes.

Don't even get me started on Cannavaro.

 

[harms]

Brave statement considering Best - Robben - Law there.

As well as Mazzola who had 3 consecutive 20+ goal seasons in Herrera's catenaccio's Inter.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't think my vote counts but at the end of the day, Edgar was never winning my vote anyways.

As I said in the last round, needs a 4 man defense even when you look at the team in isolation. With the wings on display here, it is pretty much suicidal to go 3 at the back.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Wow, okay. Maybe it's just me who doesn't find it complimentary. Way too similar for my liking

im not the biggest fan either, would i call it problematic not sure(depending of the opposition i guess) but wouldnt call it very good neither.

 

[Jim Beam]

As well as Mazzola who had 3 consecutive 20+ goal seasons in Herrera's catenaccio's Inter.

Tbf, your midfield is not the best option here. Thought you will go for Zidane who would be brilliant with that 3 around him.

Think Mazzola would get a hard time between Netto and Busquets. And I think Blokhin would absolutely thrive here bringing chaos all around.

Pep would love Blokhin type of player. Sheerer would go to the bin though

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

im not the biggest fan either, would i call it problematic not sure(depending of the opposition i guess) but wouldnt call it very good neither.

Yea, that is closer to what I think.

Against any team with lots of movement, I'd want a good reader who could cover for the partner stopper. And most Goat teams will have a lot of movement in attack.

Terry-Vidic wouldn't be half as decent as Terry-Carvalho and Rio-Vidic.

Cannavaro-Vierchowod are two great defenders in isolation. As a pair, not really.

 

[Synco]

Against any team with lots of movement, I'd want a good reader who could cover for the partner.

Who of them isn't a good reader? I've only seen Cannavaro in the flesh, but I remember him as a very intelligent defender.

 

[Jim Beam]

Cannavaro-Vierchowod are two great defenders in isolation. As a pair, not really.

But what about your Arsene Winger?

 

[Jim Beam]

What a bad joke. Am going in my corner.

 

[harms]

Tbf, your midfield is not the best option here. Thought you will go for Zidane who would be brilliant with that 3 around him.

Think Mazzola would get a hard time between Netto and Busquets. And I think Blokhin would absolutely thrive here bringing chaos all around.

Pep would love Blokhin type of player. Sheerer would go to the bin though

Mazzola gets me the workrate that Zidane doesn't have. Why do you think that Mazzola would struggle between Netto and Busquets by the way? He's actually one of the toughest opponents that Busquets can get — someone who defends from the very top and possesses an incredible dribbling ability.

For those who remembered Valentino, it was a different kind of Mazzola on show. Sandro, despite his undoubted class, was a bustling forward, perfect at defending from the front, as Herrera demanded. He buzzed around in the inside forward positions, finding space and moving the ball. Valentino was different: he glided, looked the part and would often come off the pitch with not a mud stain in sight. Sandro, unlike the man he barely knew but revered, was a warrior. He had to work harder for it. He had to prove he was more than just Valentino’s son.
...
In an era before in-depth stats, Mazzola’s brilliance was obvious – the numbers were merely a supplement to things that often can’t be measured. In many ways, Liverpool’s Roberto Firmino, with his intelligent movement and speed of thought, is a similar player in today’s game.

His dribbling was probably his strongest trait, by the way, and he was an incredibly all-rounded footballer. There was a reason why he was actually the one starting the games ahead of Rivera when the infamous staffetta policy was in place. The only thing he lacks to be considered a true all-time great is the elite playmaking ability, but I have lots of creativity and playmaking from Falcão & Tigana. And my midfield as a unit is fantastically press-resistant, and pressing is the main defensive instrument of Xavi and Busquets (although Netto brings in some additional steel).

As for Blokhin and Pep — definitely, especially the later Pep. And if it was just Xavi & Blokhin/Rummenigge, I wouldn't have any issues with that stylistically. But with Shearer there and Rummenigge being sent on the wing full-time... it's a bit like sending Henry on the wing full-time — you still get a brilliant player, as we've seen from his time for Barca, but he has nothing on the peak version (and yes, age played a part too, but he was 30 when he transferred). Plus Henry had a false 9 and Rummenigge has a "true" number 9 in front of him.

 

[harms]

Against any team with lots of movement, I'd want a good reader who could cover for the partner stopper. And most Goat teams will have a lot of movement in attack.

Terry-Vidic wouldn't be half as decent as Terry-Carvalho and Rio-Vidic.

Cannavaro-Vierchowod are two great defenders in isolation. As a pair, not really.

Who of them isn't a good reader? I've only seen Cannavaro in the flesh, but I remember him as a very intelligent defender.

Cannavaro can act as a defensive organiser and he was a brilliant reader of the game, as he proved in 2006. The association with Nesta always hurts him as you want to assign the usual sweeper/stopper labels on them, but peak Cannavaro was more than that (and more than Vidić/Terry, who were the archetypical stoppers).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Who of them isn't a good reader? I've only seen Cannavaro in the flesh, but I remember him as a very intelligent defender.

At the level of a Carvalho and Rio? Nah, I don't think so.

Besides, asking Cannavaro to play the covering role is not great use of him. You'd want him to be the alpha stopper.

 

[harms]

At the level of a Carvalho and Rio? Nah, I don't think so.

Besides, asking Cannavaro to play the covering role is not great use of him. You'd want him to be the alpha stopper.

Not at that level, no. But, as I said, he proved himself at the highest possible level with a partner who was neither Rio or Carvalho. He is a complete center back and not every partnership needs to be a sweeper/stopper one.

 

[Jim Beam]

Mazzola gets me the workrate that Zidane doesn't have.

And Zidane absolutely owns him in attacking end. Come on, Zidane, Best, Robben, Law.

It is just perfect.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

He is a complete center back and not every partnership needs to be a sweeper/stopper one

It doesn't need to be one. You can have a sweeper-hybrid partnership or stopper-hybrid partnership as well. You can't have a stopper-stopper one. And the best use of either of them is as a stopper. Even Vierchowod played as a sweeper later in his career, but that is hardly the best use of him.

In such a partnership, one of them has to play a different role than his usual best and I'd rather have a Mcgrath who one might rate lower than Fabio but is a brilliant fit rather than shoehorn Cannavaro here.

It's my same old qualm with drafts. Shinier names triumph more natural fits. Heyy, but as long as it works, who cares. It's not like Tigana-Falcao is losing you any votes

 

[Synco]

Cannavaro can act as a defensive organiser and he was a brilliant reader of the game, as he proved in 2006. The association with Nesta always hurts him as you want to assign the usual sweeper/stopper labels on them, but peak Cannavaro was more than that

Not at that level, no. But, as I said, he proved himself at the highest possible level with a partner who was neither Rio or Carvalho. He is a complete center back and not every partnership needs to be a sweeper/stopper one.

I'd agree with that assessment. In general, the sweeper/stopper concept is sometimes treated a bit too orthodoxically in draft matches for my taste. (As long as no one explicitly mentions man-marking, I assume teams are playing zonal defense.) And in a zonal defense, I don't see the need for such a division of work, as ideally both players can mark, cover, build up in possession. Sure, if one lacks in one department, his partner should be good at it.

To me, Cannavaro was a modern allround CB. My question would rather be how well Vierchowod would function as a zonal defender in a modern back 4. He must have played that way in the 90s, or am I wrong there?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

In general, the sweeper/stopper concept is sometimes treated a bit too orthodoxically in draft matches

Leaving the odd one tournament partnerships aside (which itself was forced by Nesta getting injured), could you list any great stopper stopper partnerships in say a league campaign? For example, in the premier league's 30 year old history for instance?

 

[Jim Beam]

could you list any great stopper stopper partnerships in say a league campaign?

Vida Lovren got to the WC final

Although, feck knows how