Dušan Vlahović

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sullydnl

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I was under the impression that his impressive goal record at Fiorentina was heavily stat padded by pens.

He was also kept out of the Serbian national side by Mitrovic during the WC and nobody would be clamouring for him over Kane.
Yep. He scored 38 goals across 58 league games at Fiorentina but 30% of those goals were penalties.

Comparing him with Osimhen (as they're in the same league) over recent seasons for non-penalty xG per 90:

Vlahovic: 0.43, 0.43, 0.48, 0.37
Osimhen: 0.61, 0.62, 0.65

And non-penalty actual goals per 90:

Vlahovic: 0.46, 0.58, 0.59, 0.53
Osimhen: 0.57, 0.64, 0.94

You can see why Osimhen is rated more highly as a goal threat.

And then from our perspective the question of translating from Serie A to the PL still applies to Vlahovic as well.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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If that's an accurate assessment, we'd still be paying a price for what he can be, rather than buying someone for less and make him more valuable through ETH's coaching. I am concerned whenever I see it mentioned that a player lacks speed. Until we have a stellar midfield and full backs that will be a major attribute to possess.
I’m not sure why we shouldn’t be buying someone for less and make him more valuable through coaching. Player that suits the system can look much more valuable at the end and it is always a good thing. For example, Xhaka was valued less than 20m by Roma in 2021 and now performing much more valuable under Arteta system.
 

Bastian

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I’m not sure why we shouldn’t be buying someone for less and make him more valuable through coaching. Player that suits the system can look much more valuable at the end and it is always a good thing. For example, Xhaka was valued less than 20m by Roma in 2021 and now performing much more valuable under Arteta system.
That's what I'm saying. Would Vlahović be gettable for a reasonable price, from Juve of all clubs? Osimhen is another who'll be priced to the max (but he's got the pace). It all depends on how ambitious the new owners will be I guess. There are quite a few spots to fill if we're to authentically get back to our best.
 

TheNewEra

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I know nothing about him, but I trust the scouts and ETH with whatever striker they pick. I just hope we get a world class one.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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That's what I'm saying. Would Vlahović be gettable for a reasonable price, from Juve of all clubs? Osimhen is another who'll be priced to the max (but he's got the pace). It all depends on how ambitious the new owners will be I guess. There are quite a few spots to fill if we're to authentically get back to our best.
You have to tell me what is your reasonable price? No one will understand what you are saying without knowing your context of reasonable price.
 

Bastian

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You have to tell me what is your reasonable price? No one will understand what you are saying without knowing your context of reasonable price.
He was sold for 62m. I doubt in this climate Juve will look for anything other than a substantial increase, they're Juve after all. Can't imagine he'd go for less than 80m, but who knows. If he doesn't fit exactly - which is up for debate - it is pricey.
 

Strootman's Finger

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He was sold for 62m. I doubt in this climate Juve will look for anything other than a substantial increase, they're Juve after all. Can't imagine he'd go for less than 80m, but who knows. If he doesn't fit exactly - which is up for debate - it is pricey.
Juve isn't in the power position when it comes to negotiations at the moment.
 

Bastian

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Juve isn't in the power position when it comes to negotiations at the moment.
I don't think these bigger clubs tend to do bargain deals. It's not as if Barca, who are in the worst financial situation of any top club, are prepared to accept a loss on a player they wanted rid off (FDJ). With Juve they've two very sellable assets in Chiesa and Vlahovic and I think they'll stick to their own evaluation in that regard. Napoli have stuck to a sky high valuation of Osimhen (even Lazio have stuck to a high valuation of SMS). If we want a great deal we'll likely have to unearth a talent (like City did with Alvarez) or buy from the 2nd tier European clubs.
 

Bepi

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If you consider his difficult time at Juve and think Allegri is still a reliable evaluator of players for teams that need to win trophies, just have a look at Bentancur and Kulusevski for Spurs, who were deemed good but not good enough for Juventus… and be aware that Vlahovic is still a bit raw in terms of mentality (he becomes angry if defenders touch/hit him, in that losing focus) and technique (he still has a passive first touch, being unable to connect quickly and in the best possible shape for the flow of the play), for a world class centre forward. He will still need one full year, so you are not buying the finished article but he will be there quickly, under a smart manager.
 

Strootman's Finger

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I don't think these bigger clubs tend to do bargain deals. It's not as if Barca, who are in the worst financial situation of any top club, are prepared to accept a loss on a player they wanted rid off (FDJ). With Juve they've two very sellable assets in Chiesa and Vlahovic and I think they'll stick to their own evaluation in that regard. Napoli have stuck to a sky high valuation of Osimhen (even Lazio have stuck to a high valuation of SMS). If we want a great deal we'll likely have to unearth a talent (like City did with Alvarez) or buy from the 2nd tier European clubs.
So it's only us that sell their players for a fraction of their cost.
 

Bastian

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So it's only us that sell their players for a fraction of their cost.
Well, there aren't many that overpay as much as we tend to. And there is almost assuredly no one who dishes out as great and unmerited contracts as we do. So yes, we are a bit of an anomaly when it comes to selling. Notable exceptions are Lukaku and James.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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He was sold for 62m. I doubt in this climate Juve will look for anything other than a substantial increase, they're Juve after all. Can't imagine he'd go for less than 80m, but who knows. If he doesn't fit exactly - which is up for debate - it is pricey.
So if he goes for under 80m, would you consider it as reasonable price and would you take it? I asked what is your reasonable price but you didn’t give me straight response.
 

DWelbz19

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just have a look at Bentancur and Kulusevski for Spurs, who were deemed good but not good enough for Juventus…
Two players who have levelled down back to a level where they very much look at home at Spurs?
 

EtH

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We aren’t getting this guy or Osimhen this summer. And rightly so. The prices required will be exorbitant for players who very likely will not translate to the PL.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Well, there aren't many that overpay as much as we tend to. And there is almost assuredly no one who dishes out as great and unmerited contracts as we do. So yes, we are a bit of an anomaly when it comes to selling. Notable exceptions are Lukaku and James.
It is always a matter of who is more desperate. Good news is Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern don't need new striker. Chelsea and PSG (if messi leave) may be in the market. So there won't be a lot of competition.
 

Bepi

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Two players who have levelled down back to a level where they very much look at home at Spurs?
And neither playing for trophies nor winning any in the foreseeable future, which is a truly different sport.

EDIT: Conte dixit last week… I understand the situation here, pressure would be different at Juventus or Inter
 
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Lash

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Is he better than Martial? then yes, sure why not.

I'd rather Osimhen or Kane though.
Right now, that's not a high bar. You just have to be fit for the majority of the season.
 

Adam-Utd

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Right now, that's not a high bar. You just have to be fit for the majority of the season.
Kind of my point. People turning their noses up on players because they aren't Mbappe fast or have the touch of Berbatov... have they seen what we currently have?!
 

Lash

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Kind of my point. People turning their noses up on players because they aren't Mbappe fast or have the touch of Berbatov... have they seen what we currently have?!
Ah ok, I wasn't sure what you meant. I agree, I have reservations about Vlahovic being the right fit, but he is still very young and hopefully mailable.
 

Adam-Utd

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Ah ok, I wasn't sure what you meant. I agree, I have reservations about Vlahovic being the right fit, but he is still very young and hopefully mailable.
I can't admit to have watched him a lot outside of highlights - but he seems like he's built for England and is a solid finisher.

It's fair to say this summer there could be 3/4 top options in Kane, Osimhen, Vlahovic and maybe outside bet Calvert Lewin? probably more I can't think of right now.

Price will also be a big factor. My choice would be Osimhen but if he's going to be 120m i'd rather go for Kane at 80m etc.
 

croadyman

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We aren’t getting this guy or Osimhen this summer. And rightly so. The prices required will be exorbitant for players who very likely will not translate to the PL.
So where we looking when Kane stays then
 

croadyman

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I can't admit to have watched him a lot outside of highlights - but he seems like he's built for England and is a solid finisher.

It's fair to say this summer there could be 3/4 top options in Kane, Osimhen, Vlahovic and maybe outside bet Calvert Lewin? probably more I can't think of right now.

Price will also be a big factor. My choice would be Osimhen but if he's going to be 120m i'd rather go for Kane at 80m etc.
Even if you get more years from Osimhen
 

croadyman

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Not a fun question to ponder…
For me we have to get one of Kane/Osimhen or Vlahovic this summer if we want to compete next season. I think Sesko is a prospect but we need more proven right now
 

EtH

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For me we have to get one of Kane/Osimhen or Vlahovic this summer if we want to compete next season. I think Sesko is a prospect but we need more proven right now
I just can’t see past Kane this summer.
 

reelworld

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It is always a matter of who is more desperate. Good news is Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern don't need new striker. Chelsea and PSG (if messi leave) may be in the market. So there won't be a lot of competition.
yeah, but competing with oil money and Boehly doesn't really give me more confidence. Those two may hike the price up
 

JeffFromHK

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Didn't watch him at Fiorentina, but his games for Juventus and for Serbia in WC didn't look too impressive to me.
 

DutchSerb

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Would prefer Kane or Osimhen but if one stays and one is too expensive Vlahovic would still be a good option. If we fail to get any of these three, we're fecked.
 

DutchSerb

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There are plenty of decent options out there besides those 3 and don't overlook the fact that we now have a coaching staff that can develop and improve players.
Who would you like besides these 3?
 

Gandalf

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Who would you like besides these 3?
I think Mitrovic would be a decent option and has the advantage of PL experience, Jonathan David potentially, maybe Thuram but certainly other options exist. I don't think there is a sure thing out there but that includes the three we are discussing, Osimhen and Vlahovic have not done it outside Serie A and Kane is pushing 30 with a history of ankle problems so any of them could easily be a very expensive bust at United. We have to trust that Erik will identify the right target and more to the point he will improve that player until he becomes the right option for his sytem.
 

WeePat

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Yep. He scored 38 goals across 58 league games at Fiorentina but 30% of those goals were penalties.

Comparing him with Osimhen (as they're in the same league) over recent seasons for non-penalty xG per 90:

Vlahovic: 0.43, 0.43, 0.48, 0.37
Osimhen: 0.61, 0.62, 0.65

And non-penalty actual goals per 90:

Vlahovic: 0.46, 0.58, 0.59, 0.53
Osimhen: 0.57, 0.64, 0.94

You can see why Osimhen is rated more highly as a goal threat.

And then from our perspective the question of translating from Serie A to the PL still applies to Vlahovic as well.
I wonder if that their xG and actual goals per 90 is impacted by the teams they play for? Napoli is a wonderful free flowing team who create chances for fun. Their xG dwarfs Juve's and the rest of the Italian league.
 

Niemans

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I don't think these bigger clubs tend to do bargain deals. It's not as if Barca, who are in the worst financial situation of any top club, are prepared to accept a loss on a player they wanted rid off (FDJ). With Juve they've two very sellable assets in Chiesa and Vlahovic and I think they'll stick to their own evaluation in that regard. Napoli have stuck to a sky high valuation of Osimhen (even Lazio have stuck to a high valuation of SMS). If we want a great deal we'll likely have to unearth a talent (like City did with Alvarez) or buy from the 2nd tier European clubs.
Barcelona is not the top club in the worst financial situation.
United are now much worse off economically.
 

Pintu

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I wonder if that their xG and actual goals per 90 is impacted by the teams they play for? Napoli is a wonderful free flowing team who create chances for fun. Their xG dwarfs Juve's and the rest of the Italian league.
Allegri managed to make Locatelli look rubbish (He was a good player with Sassuolo and Itakt)... They made Kulusveski look like a championship player, a completely different player compared to his Parma and Spurs' level. Even Ronaldo scored 8/10 less under him than the others years. Higuain went down from 1,1goal/90 in his last season with Napoli to 0,6 goal/90 in his 2 seasons for Allegri... You have to be a real WC player to look good under Allegri... And Juventus is generally not too kind to forwards... Ronaldo won the goal scoring table once with them (under Pirlo) and he was the first to do it since Del Piero back in 2007/08.

But Vlahovic has more problems than Juventus. It seems he's been carrying an injury for a while now...
 

Bastian

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Barcelona is not the top club in the worst financial situation.
United are now much worse off economically.
I doubt it. You've begun the process of selling off your future. Also, I expect United to begin next season relatively debt-free.
 

DutchSerb

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I think Mitrovic would be a decent option and has the advantage of PL experience, Jonathan David potentially, maybe Thuram but certainly other options exist. I don't think there is a sure thing out there but that includes the three we are discussing, Osimhen and Vlahovic have not done it outside Serie A and Kane is pushing 30 with a history of ankle problems so any of them could easily be a very expensive bust at United. We have to trust that Erik will identify the right target and more to the point he will improve that player until he becomes the right option for his sytem.
I like Jonathan David as a player but he would not fit ETHs criteria of CF, he needs to play around one. Mitrovic would, I wouldn't mind that one. Thuram I like as a bench option, I'm not totally convinced by him.

Vlahovic and Osimhen are better than most available at that position yet still young, Kane is world class, has experience, leadership and doesn't rely on his speed so it really does not matter all that much that he's pushing 30. Besides, they used that argument against Casemiro too.

I share concerns about the Serie A but if we have to settle for a player like Sesko for god knows how many millions who scored 5 goals in Austria (example) I will definitely be concerned. Yes I absolutely trust in Erik's ability to improve players, but we also need injections of quality that take us to the next level NOW, especially at the CF position. They could always bring a young player in afterwards that can sit, learn, develop and eventually take over. These 3 guys might be expensive, but they're expensive for a reason. They're lethal goalscorers and there aren't many like those on the market right now, but we desperately need one.
 

sullydnl

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I wonder if that their xG and actual goals per 90 is impacted by the teams they play for? Napoli is a wonderful free flowing team who create chances for fun. Their xG dwarfs Juve's and the rest of the Italian league.
It will have some impact but typically not to the extent that you couldn't confidently say Osimhen is generally more of a baseline goal threat, I think.

For example in 19/20 Osimhen was around 20 years old and playing for a Lille side who finished 4th and scored the 8th most goals in Ligue 1. And his non-penalty xG that season was 0.52 per 90. So less than the 0.61-0.65 he managed in the three seasons as an older striker at Napoli but still more than Vlahovic has managed in any of the last four seasons at Juve/Fiorentina.
 
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