How do you reckon this will go? I presume the 10th tier of Dutch football is just amateur sides, regional leagues etc. so the standard isn't gonna be too high but I imagine physically it'll be a total mismatch.
Dutch football announce pilot scheme where a woman will play with a man's team in the 10th tier of Dutch football
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
She’s going to find it really difficult, but good luck to her.
I went to see a few Scheveningen FC games when I was over there (They're in the 3rd Division) and it was very intense/feisty. I was surprised when I was told they were in the 3rd tier as it looked like Sunday League level at times, especially with the amount of fights and horrid tackles.
I think that Mens Football is a sport that still suffers with the notion of 'masculinity' so it will be interesting to see how that dynamic changes when a female enters that environment.
I think that Mens Football is a sport that still suffers with the notion of 'masculinity' so it will be interesting to see how that dynamic changes when a female enters that environment.
Can't see this ending well based on the occasions women and men have faced off against each other. Feels like an experiment we probably already know the outcome of to me.
It's different though. It's common for the best female teams to have games against younger male teams but not common for adults to be mixing in the same team. If you're training with all females you're going to prepare to play a mens team in the same way you would if you were playing a female team.
The difference here is that a women will be training and in the same environment of a male team aswell as competing against them. It will be interesting to see how they adapt to different training, the environment being different etc. The only comparison we really have is that youth levels where girls are still allowed to play with and against boys. In those scenarios the girls have still managed to compete fairly well and sometimes are one of the best players in the side.
She isn’t joining them now. She’s played for the club since she was 5 and has never played women’s/girls football.
Why don't they just introduce a new 'mixed' league with a cap of 5 males and female per team (GK's a wildcard)? This seems pretty condescending and a really poor experiment.
Makes complete sense then!
Condescending to who?
What’s the point? The best female player in the world wouldn’t even play for a youth team in any country, not even on skills, so why bother with the humiliation?
It’s all well and good until some meathead goes and crunches her, which is bound to happen eventually.
I think it's unfair on the men playing against her to some degree, you would be quite hesitant to go through a woman in a tackle etc.
Good luck to her. Can't see it ending well. Physically she is going to be massively outmatched, and there will always be some 6 foot 5 clogger unhappy at sharing the pitch with her who will make a point of some overly physical tackles.
Seems a stupid idea although I do not know the motivation behind it, there are obvious reasons why men and women do not compete in sports.
I suppose a lot of people in this thread have forgot about players like David Silva and Billy Gilmour.
Seriously?
That is interesting. Will be interesting to track how she does then.
Yes? They are both players that are considerably lightweight in the PL and physically outmatched compared to their counterparts but have shown that they can cope due to their other skillsets.
Very cool. Hope it works.
I'm not sure. I've played a couple of charity games with women involved and everybody is incredibly careful, to the point of allowing them to do things a male player would never get away with.
10th tier is about right judging from the FA women's league so interested to see how she does.
Still a million miles away in agility, power and speed.
Remember when Perugia toyed with the idea (think they signed Gadaffi’s son too). The female player said she physically couldn’t compete and that was that
Even a very physically slight male is stronger than your average female football player. Testosterone is a hell of a hormone.
It's a pointless exercise based entirely around todays political climate, if everyone is being honest with themselves.
Despite what people try to convince themselves of, the fact is both Men and Women are different biologically, Men will inevitably have a physical and more athletic advantage over women, that's just a scientific and biological fact. It doesn't mean Women are inferior or weaker, it just means they are different, we should be celebrating our differences, but that's not something that's allowed anymore.
There are some fantastic football players who are women, but sports should be kept seperate for both men and women. This is also why it should be a discussion on allowing trans athletes to compete in their recognised gender, because it's no coincidence that any men that transition into women, and then compete, end up breaking all kinds of records, which has happened in many different sports over the last couple of years.
Despite what people try to convince themselves of, the fact is both Men and Women are different biologically, Men will inevitably have a physical and more athletic advantage over women, that's just a scientific and biological fact. It doesn't mean Women are inferior or weaker, it just means they are different, we should be celebrating our differences, but that's not something that's allowed anymore.
There are some fantastic football players who are women, but sports should be kept seperate for both men and women. This is also why it should be a discussion on allowing trans athletes to compete in their recognised gender, because it's no coincidence that any men that transition into women, and then compete, end up breaking all kinds of records, which has happened in many different sports over the last couple of years.
My point is that physically outmatching someone doesn't have to matter all the time in football. The ability to play well enough without being strong/quick* can enable someone to compete at a good level whether they are male or female or otherwise.
It's also what I mean when I say the notion of masculinity is still very prevalent within mens football that physical mismatches/players being afraid to tackle a woman is the most common post you see in these threads.
*which people are assuming without seeing her or her team play.
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What on earth is the point??? You don't need a pilot to tell you men and women can't play as a mixed team in senior football. Are they gonna someday pilot a woman running the 100m finals to see if it'll work? Grow the women's game. Let's celebrate both. And stop this extreme PC stuff.
What's next?!?! etc.
Would be interesting to watch.
Dogs to referee games.
That's barking mad that is!
If you played against David Silva he would have you on your arse not knowing which way he went within seconds. He might be weak vs other top level professional athletes, but dont mistake that for him actually being weak. He is still at a far higher level than almost anybody else.
I am not sure what you are trying to argue though, that women could one day play at the same level as men? That will never happen. I am sure women will get better over time but they will never be able to handle a top level mens game, and probably not mid tier games either. Just let them grow their own sport.
Couldn't do worse than Mike Dean.
I don't think there's any value in having mixed teams once you get to a level where women cannot compete. But you can see the advantages in integration at youth levels and at lower amateur levels where women might not have any other option for a game. The existing Dutch system already seems to allow integration up to the age of 19 so piloting a small extension to this at a lower tier seems proportionate.
Watched a game once featuring the Australian women's national team versus the U-16's of a men's professional club. It ended 9-0.............to the U-16's, and that's with them being physically undeveloped.
Unsurprisingly people are just spamming the usual "PC gone mad" "Pointless exercise for todays climate" stuff without even bothering to read the context (although, tbf the thread title is a bit misleading).
A girl from a Dutch team has basically played with boys in the youth teams because they didn`t have girls teams and until age 18, youth teams are allowed to be mixed. Both she and the club have preferred that option and now that she has turned 19 she normally would`ve had to change teams because its in the rules of the Dutch FA that women and men can`t play in the others gender teams.
Given that both the club and the player have expressed the wish to keep her playing in the mens team, the Dutch FA has now given them an excemption from the rule and will monitor how it goes to potentially disbandon the rule in amateur football. Nothing more, no hidden agenda, no social political correct experiment, just a change of rule for Amateur football.
A girl from a Dutch team has basically played with boys in the youth teams because they didn`t have girls teams and until age 18, youth teams are allowed to be mixed. Both she and the club have preferred that option and now that she has turned 19 she normally would`ve had to change teams because its in the rules of the Dutch FA that women and men can`t play in the others gender teams.
Given that both the club and the player have expressed the wish to keep her playing in the mens team, the Dutch FA has now given them an excemption from the rule and will monitor how it goes to potentially disbandon the rule in amateur football. Nothing more, no hidden agenda, no social political correct experiment, just a change of rule for Amateur football.
That we have a problem in society with generalising groups far too much and easily (which I am also guilty for). Not all women will be able to, just like not all men will be able too (Hello 0.01%) but that does not mean that the option or availablity shouldn't be there if there was or is a female capable of competing at a decent level. There may well be a bunch of women that are able to compete at a decent level but at the moment there are a lot of rules that stop that possibility.
It is possible for womens football to grow while having the option for women to compete if they wish and are capable.
Nobody really knows what level that is because the only evidence we have so far is female vs male games or examples of girls playing in mixed teams at youth level. There is obviously a very different training schedule and environment for a woman who plays in a mixed team throughout her whole career compared to a woman who plays mixed until the age of 12 and then changes to an all womens team.
They wouldn't dream of having non contact sports like tennis open to all, so there's no way they ever could in football.
There is literally no argument for the mixing of football at all. Concentration should be made on expanding the women's game, which has come on massively recently.
Probably the first time after she turns a defender or similar. This just feels doomed to failure, even if she is a decent player, she's going to get kicked out of games.
Fully agree. If you want to promote equality, this is the wrong way to do it. Promote the woman’s game, not make them play with men. This is only going to end badly.
It's an experiment. Let us see how it goes before condemning it.