Ed Woodward 2019 - Until all Arctic ice melt Edition.

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by fallengt, Apr 21, 2019.

  1. Jun 8, 2019

    Saffron New Member

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    Why are you comparing us to Spurs who haven’t won a major title in 40 years? Of course the expectations will be lower.

    We went from winning 5 leagues and 1 CL in SAF’s final 7 years to not even remotely challenging for 6 years now. And no, finishing 19 points behind City is not challenging.

    We are the laughing stock of Europe, not just England. It’s us and AC Milan. And you keep making excuses for the CEO who presided over all of this.
  2. Jun 8, 2019

    el3mel Full Member

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    We have witnessed 6 full years of Woodward managing the football side and saw the club finish 4 times out of 6 campaigns outside top 4, not challenging for the league even once and becoming the new laughing stock of England and Europe after Arsenal while all our football decisions in these 6 years scream panicking and lack of planning re money spending and managerial appointments.

    But you find some people here defending Woodward as if he had brought us the treble previously and proved his ability to lead a football club to glory so he deserves more chances and it's all the 4 managers problem that we're shite 6 years in a row under his supervision.

    I hope if I'm as shite as Woodward in my job I find some people in my work place defending me as much as him.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  3. Jun 8, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    Never heard of a company where the CEO isn't ultimately resposible for what's happening to the company.

    I hate anologies so I'm not going to make one but I'm sure you can imagine who is resposible in the end when things go titty up in any company around the world.
  4. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    You do realize our history shows we went 40 years without a title too? Obviously not... then from Busby to Fergie it was another 26 years. Essentially we've had 2 brilliant managers in our clubs history who've dominated but outside of that it's been distinctly average for very long periods of time.

    I really hate this term "laughing stock of Europe". Football is cyclic, all clubs have ups and downs and no one dominates continually, unless its a mickey mouse league like Scotland!

    Finally, I don't recall hearing many stories of our supporters calling for Edwards head when he presided over our utter shit show for almost the entirety of our barren spell without a league win? I believe the only time that happened was around 1989 when supporters wanted rid of both Fergie and Edwards.

    Edwards was appointed to the board in March 1970, chairman of the board exactly a decade later in March 1980 and then 2 years later was CEO in Jan 1982!

    So it was 11 years from the point of him being CEO ALONE...Before we won the league.

    From the point of being on the board of directors there was 5 managerial appointments before finally Ferguson saved us after 6 years of hardship.

    If he wasn't supporting them or controlling them or similar it'd make sense. But he's given them every support he can and hired the best available.

    As per the above, why was Edwards treated so differently?
  5. Jun 8, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    He is treated very differently, I'm amazed that fans, pundits and people with football knowledge haven't identified him as a big factor to our failures until now.

    The best as you call them, both LvG and Mourinho have said that the club is run poorly, are more a brand than a football club, that we have no ambition. Where does that stem from if not the leadership.
  6. Jun 8, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

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    Good point. It really couldn't have been handled in a less coherent way.

    Compare with the number of Chelsea managerial changes and even they have managed to maintain some level of consistency.

    Woodward really is clueless. He's a liability. And that's before you analyse the financials of our owners.
  7. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    You don't think that is both of them attempting to save face at all? There's very much a distinct possibility that they are protecting their reputations, I mean Jose was dredging up former glories whilst belittling the club.... when he was manager? "Respect" and "Three times" and saying its normal for United to lose in Europe.

    Likewise, LVG has often fell out with former clubs as well and protected his record. He's had a life long feud with Cryuff over Ajax and Barca for god sake.

    There are managers in the league that could only dream of being backed how they both were at a club with our reputation and ability to sign top players.
  8. Jun 8, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

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    Football was very different back then. It is almost incomparable to now. The formation if the premier league and the associated revenues which have grown exponentially over the last 25+ have changed the game. We were in a position to capitalise on that but have wasted our competitive advantage under Woodward and the Glazers.

    Becuase the success we had since the premier league has built on our popularity, we have the support to generate the largest commercial revenue of almost any club. Expectations are set in accordance with that. By any modern barometer Woodward is failing.
  9. Jun 8, 2019

    Fluctuation0161 Full Member

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    It really is ridiculous. There are a couple of posters going above and beyond to defend the indefensible. It doesnt make sense.
  10. Jun 8, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

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    But he has not being managing the football side. The manager has. The role as CEO at United has not changed since Woodwards predecessor David Gill. Or actually it has since United was listed at the NYSE the last year under Gill which if anything put more responsibility on the CEO for corporate matters = even less time to get involved in day-today business.
    And no one accused Gill of "managing the football side".
  11. Jun 8, 2019

    Saffron New Member

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    Doesn’t surprise me one bit that you would hold our past failures against us with a smug grin in defense of Woodward. You want us to lower our expectations so Ed doesn’t look so bad. Just like Moyes who tried to convince everyone we’re a midtable club so he doesn’t look so bad.

    I bet you will be delighted in 2033 when/if we have no ambition left after losing the league 20 years in a row. Woodward will have presided over all of it but it won’t be his fault because ”we’re just Manchester United”.
  12. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Our position changed with Fergie going, as I've already said he can be faulted alright for lack of restructure at the club. He's stuck with the same structure that was already there.

    All our managers with Edwards faced the exact same pressure that all the recent managers have its ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Weather it was O'Farrell, Doherty, Sexton or Atkinson they all were expected to win a league. The pressure actually increases the longer it goes on without a league and the expectation increases, anger with it too.

    If you've any doubts dig out a copy of the documentary "Too good to go down". What is happening today echoes so similarly to back in the 70s and 80s but at a ridiculous accelerated rate thanks to telecoms and social media.
  13. Jun 8, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    We do not know who makes what decision at the club or the level of involvement Woodward or the board has in footballing decisions. For all we know, the board could be the ones micromanaging transfer decisions, or it could be as you state that this is all down to the managers.

    The only thing we can state is that the outcome of a number of the football-related decisionmaking processes (transfers, managers, contracts and renewals) are not as they should be. So the ones making the decisions, the basis for how the decision is made or the process leading up to the decision is not good enough from a footballing perspective.
  14. Jun 8, 2019

    Johan07 Full Member

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    But we can be intelligent enough to make a well educated guess. Our board is 6 Glazers, 3 independents (this is because NYSE rules I think) and Woodward. Does anyone really believe that this board is discussing if Phil Jones is a good enough squad player and/or if Ashley Young can cross the ball. Really? I´m sorry but that is delusional. To think that the board is micromanaging anything is as well.
  15. Jun 8, 2019

    Kag Full Member

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    He gets defended from irrational blame, of which there is lots. Criticism is merited, also, as there has been little pattern in the managerial appointments of Van Gaal, Mourinho and (to a degree) Solskjaer. He was also, in my opinion, too slow to get rid of Moyes and Van Gaal. Not to mention the unwarranted Mourinho contract extension. These were decisions that displeased me at the time and I said as much. So I make my criticisms in no position of hindsight.

    What Woodward does often receive stick for are decisions that were met with huge enthusiasm and fanfare. Van Gaal and Mourinho were popular choices. The best available, apparently. The likes of Schneiderlin, Darmian and even Schweinsteiger were delivered with great glee. Di Maria, Mata, Pogba and Sanchez were all celebrated as fantastic signings that would propel us towards greater success. When Shaw, Bailly, Lindelof, Dalot, Lukaku and Martial arrived there was delight at the shift towards young players that could emerge as superstars in a United shirt. Very, very few of our signings were met with scepticism upon arrival. They then largely struggled to succeed due to the lack of attacking plan in place, which (as I’ve always argued) stems from a lack of ideas on the coaching pitch. Ideas that Klopp and Guardiola have instilled into their own positive, attacking football teams, even when the playing squad wasn’t that great. Summer transfer windows have gone by with much speculation, but managers have always been supported to the tune of millions, irrespective of the bollocks they spew when given the chop.

    So I’m not absolving Woodward of blame. He operates the running of the club and if it isn’t successful, of course he bears responsibility. He could have organised a more modern footballing structure a couple of years ago, with that fancy dan director everybody seems to want. He could have adopted a more streamlined approach to the hiring of managers. Perhaps this would have prevented the likes of Sanchez and Matic coming to the club as they appeared to look past their best.

    But let’s not pretend for a second that the vast majority of decisions made by the club since Moyes left haven’t been met with a great response. They have. And when a manager walks in (it might be Solskjaer?) and wins us titles, I won’t be celebrating Ed bloody Woodward. I’ll be celebrating the manager and players that got us there. Just as I blame the managers and players that got us here. David Gill wasn’t responsible for success under Ferguson. Ferguson was, as were his players. Gill was simply smart enough to get on his bike before his period of austerity was about to bite us on the arse. We spent sod all, watched star players grow old and he hopped up into a better paying job. Well played, that man.

    United will be back in business soon enough. I don’t know how soon, but I remain positive the club will find somebody to make their mark and sort the football out. When it does, I won’t be celebrating Woodward, as he isn’t the bloke responsible for putting the ball in the net. That’s the football side.
  16. Jun 8, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    I don't believe they are making it up to "save face". We have a CEO who sold one of the biggest jobs in football as " An adult version of Disneyland". Makes me question his fecking vision for the club.

    We're talking about two completely different things, Woodward has spent money, yes, that's his "solution" to a much greater problem. I am saying he does not have the knowledge to run a club's footballing side. He should have long ago put someone else in charge of recruitment and other football related decisions.

    Either you back a manegerial vision or you don't, not what he did with LvG or how he refused to back Mourinho in the market but kept him on as a manager. He's responsible for this mess, we collapsed completely last season and we have our CEO to thank for that.
  17. Jun 8, 2019

    Fosu-Mens Full Member

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    The board micromanaging was an example and a potential worst-case scenario. Just to show the showcase the range of possibilities. Think that was fairly understandable given the context. No need for calling me delusional, that will only polarize the discussion. I'm not saying that they are discussing Jones or Young abilities as a player, but they might be the ones OK'ing major transfers for all we know. And Woodward might be making or involved in more football decisions than you state he does. Completely disregarding this possibility is being a little biased, the same is putting all the blame on Woodward and the board and ignoring the possibility that the managers might influence the outcome.
  18. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    I'm a United supporter my whole life, I've family born and bred from Salford! I'm about as Manc as one can get without being born there.

    I'd rather not just buy into what tabloids tell us and buy it as matter of fact. I take it on board, analyze it and judge for myself after some investigation and thought of my own.

    I sure as shit don't do anything like the BS you've posted here anyway. I'm not smug at all about our current situation, I'm as annoyed, frustrated and worn out as the next supporter.

    I am however understanding that football is cyclic and we've had more bad times than good and we've just been absolutely blessed to have lived through a time of greatness with Ferguson.

    That certainly doesn't mean we have divine right to walk to leagues or even challenge for them every single damn year, we might want and let that be our expectation but when we don't achieve it we shouldn't act like spoiled children either.

    Blaming Woodward is beyond ridiculous for me personally, the evidence shows he's made some good and bad calls. He's supported his appointments.

    So if were to believe the Woodward hatred, then Woodward scouted players like Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof etc etc and signed them up, dictated how they played and when they failed its on him!

    It's one of footballs best known stories, LVG vs Cryuff. They absolutely hate each other and both talk down each others tenure / work at Barca and Ajax.

    I like LVG, but I can definitely see he has an ego and some of his recent statements in the interview are BS. He's saving face, just like Jose was even when he was still fecking employed by the club! Jesus its absolutely ridiculous to try say otherwise.

    Sorry but its not just his solution, LVG himself said "I thought United could buy anyone" and Jose was personally responsible for doubling our wage bill and spent without a care in the world.

    I agree about LVG, he panicked and sacked him wrongly. How that news broke was Mendes (Jose's agent), you know that right?

    How did he not back Jose's vision? The fall out over a centre half happened long after Jose had completely turned on the club and was failing spectacularly.

    Why do folks cherry pick situations to suit their own agendas?

    I'm like a broken record here saying this for I think the 4th time on this thread ALONE!

    What about the fact he failed spectacularly against Sevilla? Then the shit show post match interview? Praising his former glories, whilst slating the club?
    What about his public admittance of failing to motivate players 2-3 games on the bounce?
    What about demanding Fellaini be kept? A player our fan base has roundly despised and mocked from the moment of signing on!
    What about telling supporters not to attend matches?
    What about publicly slating the current centre halves?

    You expect his manager...to then... support his vision and demands of a center back?

    Give your head a serious, serious, serious wobble cause if your expecting a continued support after all that its nothing short of absolute delusion!
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  19. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    You have it right, he is the biggest problem United as a "football club" have right now, he was the guy who helped the Glazers take over United just as we were at our peak. We had a few good seasons after that thanks to SAF. But since SAF has retired we have no direction and no football leadership. The club is raking in more cash than ever and we still have a defence of Smalling, Jones, Young, Rojo, the club has spent cash but is currently run in a way that cash coming in is more important than success on the pitch. In other words the guy running the club is actually ruining the performance of the team on the pitch, by being the main guy in all decisions, for the simple reason that he does not have an iota of a clue about football. I have read a report today, (not sure if true or not)that Ed Woodward is hesitant about Oles target Bruno Fernandes, I would not put it past Woodward to be like that, as he is the guy deciding everything at United right now. Here is a link to the article, as for if it is truth or not I have no idea. But it sounds like the same Woodward that Van Gall was talking about recently. https://metro.co.uk/2019/06/08/ed-w...niteds-transfer-move-bruno-fernandes-9873900/
  20. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    Sorry mate you sound like you are ED Woodward, or just someone without a clue. Since Woodward has been at "The Wheel" and he is... this club has nosedived from being one of the top clubs in the World, to being a Europa League team and a top 6 club in England, despite the fact that the cash coming in has increased dramatically. Woodward has been a disaster for United on the pitch. He needs a boot in the ass out the door so fast that it does not touch his ass on the way out.
  21. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Oh the irony from clueless caftards like you :lol::lol::lol:

    As I've said, Edwards was CEO for 11 years prior to Ferguson winning a league title, our supporter base wasn't blaming him at all really.... Why?

    Why is it suddenly now ALL on Woodward after only 6 years?

    Why aren't supporters of other clubs blaming their CEO's for their failures to win leagues? I'll tell you why, cause its retarded.
  22. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    You seem to have missed the fact that Woodward is the guy working for the people who took over the club in order to make a fortune. They do not give a shit about winning things they just want to make loads of money. Can you not see that? Are you blind? They have even stated the same. https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ews/ed-woodward-manchester-united-can-6373895
  23. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    Edwards was interested in the club being successful, the Glazers are only in it for the cash, and you are without a clue, I fear for the future of the club I love.
  24. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Winning things = "Loads of money"

    So, if all they care about is money... wouldn't being successful mean that is what they demand too?

    Sure they made Jose footballs best paid manager in world football to fail and cause "they just want to make loads of money". They spent 1 billion on transfers in 10 years and the premier leagues largest wage bill because.... "they just want to make loads of money".

    Can you not see that? Are you blind?
  25. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

    I reckon they made the term caftard especially for you.

    You haven't a feckin breeze pal. Not one single iota what your talking about.
  26. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  27. Jun 8, 2019

    Denis79 Full Member

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    Never wanted Jose backed, I couldn't stand the cnut but I'm a fan that screams and knee-jerks, blows like the wind. Woodward is fecking in charge of the club and is worse than some fans. The fact that Woodward did not back him in the transfer window to then still keep him on as a manager shows he's out of his depth to me. Either you believe in the manager or you don't. If you do back him, if you don't, sack him. If you're clueless on what to do, like he apparently is, hire someone with the expertise to make the decision for you.

    And btw, you cherry pick just like the rest of us. You think he's done nothing wrong, you think he makes sound footballing decisions, I don't and I'm convinced that Woodward is the wrong man to lead this club when we're struggling. He's does not have the knowledge for a complete rebuild, but he'll throw some of the owners money at it, that should fix it, right? Delusional if you believe that.
  28. Jun 8, 2019

    RooneyLegend Full Member

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    There's nothing I hate more than someone saying football is cyclical. When a club is succeeding it generally means a club is making the right decisions when it's failing it means poor decisions are being made. If football was half as cyclical as some of you presume then all teams would have similar amounts of success but we all know they don't.

    We are currently failing due to the decision making blokes are getting things badly wrong. The question is how do we get back to the top and thinking about barren spells we've had before isn't going to take us anywhere. In terms of financial capability we are 3rd or 4th in world football yet are nowhere close to being there as a football side. History lessons aren't going to change that.

    If Woodward is going to insist on running out football programme then he really must go. He's hired incompetent managers, he's given mediocre players huge wages, he's rubber stamped huge investments in mediocre players. We can't continue like this or this mythical cycle that you think is coming back around will eventually seem like Evertons one, not coming soon!
  29. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    Well said, Woodward is in full charge of the club and the team, and things are getting worse on the playing side constantly. The biggest problem this club has right now is at the wheel and is Ed Woodward.
  30. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    And you have no answer just abuse, talking about breezes I can send an ass breeze up your nose if you are into breezes :)
  31. Jun 8, 2019

    BlueHaze Full Member

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    What the feck lads stop acting like 12 year olds. :lol:
  32. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Read back over the last few pages. I've made my argument... I'm not going to go into extensive detail yet again.

    Our supporters didn't blame Edwards for failing for 11 years as CEO, He was also chairman of the board from 1980! So he himself presided over the vast majority of our 26 year wait for a title, we've spoiled rotten arseholes in our midst that think we've a god given right to win leagues annually. Newsflash, we don't!

    Edwards raped this club as well BTW so your sentiments about him caring about winning titles only are fecking hilarious. He cleaned the club dry of its finances and ran it into administration nearly.

    You might want to read up on the clubs history, if you think the Glazers are bad feck me you'd die on the spot reading about Edwards!
  33. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    No I don't.

    I've listed where he has made mistakes already a few times.
  34. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    13 actually:smirk:
  35. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    I lived through all of that, been a fan since 1967
  36. Jun 8, 2019

    Class of 63 Full Member

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    Admiration for your efforts in this thread mate, some posters just don't want to get it.
  37. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Try deny it all you like, football is cyclic and that's a damned fact. Take your pick of league around Europe pretty much and you can see it in full affect bar mickey mouse leagues like Scotland.

    Weather its Germany, Italy, Spain or England its seen clubs have highs and lows. Juve have had periods of dominance and decline, likewise great clubs like Milan duo and Torino as well. Bayern have had slumps too along with Barca and Real... but only United fans would attempt to try argue otherwise.

    He hired the best two available options at the time of recruitment, then supported both financially...AND... allowed them role out their own ideals at the club. If they fail, its on them.

    As for the wages and what not, that very much involves the managers approval and you can continue to live in denial all you like but it won't change.

    Same way Jose demanded Fellaini be kept. The board didn't want him it seems or at least didn't value him as highly as Jose did so it went down to his final day of contract...

    So who is wrong in that scenario?

    • The manager for demanding an average player be kept?
    • The CEO who supported his managers ideals?
    I've asked this numerous times and folks singularly blaming Woodward for all this avoid it cause you damn well know what I'm saying is the truth.

    Before any of you answer, remember now... Ed is a fool for giving out contracts, but also a fool for apparently over ruling his manager.

    Basically our fan base is moaning at BOTH outcomes.
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2019
  38. Jun 8, 2019

    Keefy18 Full Member

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    Well you should know then that Edwards wasn't blamed for failing managers previously, why is Woodward now suddenly blamed?

    Its F'N mental!! It's has no logic to it... Stop and think for a second before reply

    Ed Woodward has the same role as Gill before him and Kenyon prior and Edwards before that. The structure is entirely the same as it has been for 70 odd years...

    Edwards not blamed, even though we were legit midtable and in a relegation battle a few times.
    Kenyon forgotten about pretty much
    Gill was a genius to some which is such bull! He was a jammy git and it was all about timing and he sponged off of Ferguson's abilities! He was an accountant just like Ed Woodward!

    All I'm posting is common feckin sense but our supporters just want someone to blame without actually thinking about our history, his job and what it entails!
  39. Jun 8, 2019

    Im red2 Prophet of Doom

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    I think you are in the wrong film mate:)
  40. Jun 8, 2019

    Footyislife Full Member

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    Quite obvious that after Gill/SAF left, United has had the worst leadership of any professional sports team.

    Think about how hard it is to screw up a brand where you have top players, reputation, & finances. 6 years later we still haven't hired a manager who has proven they can play attacking football/develop young players which has been the core identity of the club in our long periods of success.

    Like how stupid is that? Imagine if Amazon decided tomorrow that it no longer wanted an online store and wanted to open retail stores. That's the level of idiocy we are seeing our board execute at. Not sure if Ed's the only one to blame or just the scapegoat, but the whole board/ownership is the core of our issues, and until we fix that nothing will change in the long term.