Ed Woodward and the easiest job in the world

TwoSheds

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I really can’t go into details but I’ve had access to a few of the top CEOs in the world. Household names. Albeit briefly, and the insight I gleaned was mind boggling. I’ve been in an around the top echelons of business for the past decade both from SMEs to NMEs, and all the most successful people have one thing in common; an unbelievable work ethic and stamina, married to exceptionally high quality of output. All of the top people in business pull preposterously long hours. You just don’t make it to the top and survive at the top if you don’t. Not in a merit based environment.
But is that because it's a bad idea to delegate properly or because the culture dictates that that is the correct way to do things?

Have you also had access to the shite ones *cough*Liam Butterworth*cough* and determined that they do not work long hours? I'm pretty sure the esteemed Mr Butterworth works very long hours but that merely gives him time to make more and greater decisions that are not in the interests of his company.
 

noodlehair

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Same on Maguire. Told us we had just as good already then proceeds to sign him for probably a few mil more the following summer. Of those options he said were just as good, one can't jump, the other is on loan and he's arguing with shite one in the stand.
I just think he's blatantly incompetent. He proved it beyond any doubt on day 1 and has been allowed to plod along to his own plans and designs ever since.

Why would anything get better when the driver is blind and when he crashes into a ditch no one even tells him he has.
 

mariachi-19

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No I'm suggesting his job would be easy if he wasn't so shit at it because his bosses seemingly accept complete mediocrity without question.

I'm sure he does work long hours but I question how much he does that's actually useful, given his job is ostensibly to determine strategy and he comes across as a man who could lose at chess to a German shepherd.
You're of course forgetting that even if a CEO doesn't have multiple boards responding to him, then there is obviously going to a reduced amount of man power in the structure below the CEO which in return means he will still be dealing with as many hands as he otherwise would be with a larger company. There's just one less level below him to the shop floor.

I don't know your past or what you currently do so I wont comment on that, but what I will speak from my own experience in the corporate world, and people are not employed (especially in the legal services industry) unless there is an overwhelming need for that person that will generate a profit for the company.

As an example, an expereinced lawyer (4 years +) should bank their employer anywhere from 400-700k (aud) per annum in billable hours and take home anywhere between 100-200k. If you cannot justify adding an additional employee that can add that 400-700k P.A. to the company coffers, finance will never provide you the funding for it so the workload will be disperesed across the team. There's no room in this world for fat especially when you're trying to maximise profit.

You also need to remember that football makes up only a small portion of Woodwards job; however, it is the most scruitnized part of his job. There's hundreds of stakeholders in United, all wanting a piece of EW. Not only that, he's got a board of Directors he has to answer to who want to know why he is spending and where. The annoying thing is that as a CEO, he's not taking responsibility for his actions and employing a Director of football to oversee that side of the business but rather trying to do the whole thing himself. It is stupidity of the highest order and it needs to end. He does not have a manager in the ilk of Sir Alex working for him who was in affect the CEO of Manchester Uniteds football side.
 

simonhch

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But is that because it's a bad idea to delegate properly or because the culture dictates that that is the correct way to do things?

Have you also had access to the shite ones *cough*Liam Butterworth*cough* and determined that they do not work long hours? I'm pretty sure the esteemed Mr Butterworth works very long hours but that merely gives him time to make more and greater decisions that are not in the interests of his company.
Of course as a CEO you delegate, but typically your key personnel understand their roles exceptionally well, better than you often will, if they are appropriately qualified and skilled. Much of what you do with them is report analysis, problem solving and decision making. Your role is typically focused around integrating all the vital components of the value chain and how the relate to one another and allocating scarce resources; which is exceptionally time consuming. Different functions within a company will be competing for the same finite pool of resources and allocating appropriately is a delicate and difficult process.

You also have to manage the exploitative and explorative functions of the company, which are fundamentally completely different processes but also both intrinsically linked and essential for both short term and long term survivability. You are constantly managing change, which is the only constant in the business world; and handling never ending human capital issues. A CEOs work is never done.

Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.

I have an MBA specialised in the role of leadership in innovative environments and the role of technology. I am currently pursuing my doctorate in the same field, and am the CEO of a sports and entertainment SME.
 

DoomSlayer

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Of course as a CEO you delegate, but typically your key personnel understand their roles exceptionally well, better than you often will, if they are appropriately qualified and skilled. Much of what you do with them is report analysis, problem solving and decision making. Your role is typically focused around integrating all the vital components of the value chain and how the relate to one another and allocating scarce resources; which is exceptionally time consuming. Different functions within a company will be competing for the same finite pool of resources and allocating appropriately is a delicate and difficult process.

You also have to manage the exploitative and explorative functions of the company, which are fundamentally completely different processes but also both intrinsically linked and essential for both short term and long term survivability. You are constantly managing change, which is the only constant in the business world; and handling never ending human capital issues. A CEOs work is never done.

Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.

I have an MBA specialised in the role of leadership in innovative environments and the role of technology. I am currently pursuing my doctorate in the same field, and am the CEO of a sports and entertainment SME.
I'm sure you are very loved by the people in the General forum. :D Good read, though.
 

Rhyme Animal

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His seasonal to do list looks as follows pretty much every year.

June - brief press with some bollocks about biggest club in the world, structural changes, new strategy, going to sign players
July - sign decent but underwhelming player, maybe a couple of youth players.
Brief press that we only want the right players.
August - panic and overpay for a couple of good players, argue with manager / coaching staff, brief press that you haven't argued with manager / coaching staff. Investor call.
September - sign new Vietnamese nappy sponsorship
October - do nothing
November - investor call, everything is wonderful, we definitely won't feck up any more transfers, manager's job is safe
December - keep head down while manager mentions new signings
January - don't sign anybody, brief press that it's a difficult time of year
February - investor call, poor season is bad luck plus someone/thing else's fault, next year will be better, more tractor sponsorships incoming
March - brief press that we've got all our ducks in a row for next season, strategy planned months in advance, new transfer system
April - do nothing, occasionally reassure press that someone's job is safe
May - investor call to explain disappointing financial results, possibly sack manager, new kit announced
June - brief press with some bollocks about biggest club in the world, structural changes, new strategy, going to sign players

@joelglazer I reckon I could do a cracking job of the above and I'll take half the salary, hit me up on LinkedIn please.
You missed his annual holiday, which, in all seriousness I seem to remember takes place during the Summer transfer window...

He could holiday at any point during the year - he isn't needed at the ground during season, it's not like it matters whether he watches Utd play or not, he's not the fecking manager... or... is he? :nervous:
 

MackRobinson

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I've met a decent amount of CEOs and my one takeaway is that I envy their compensation packages but not their life. A CEO has virtually no personal time outside his company, even the shitty ones.
 

Ander herrera the warrior

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What I still don't get about Woodward is how he wasn't sacked after the transfer window in Moyes's first season?

I mean, he literally managed to pay £4m OVER the release clause of a player to sign them, for no other reason than to sign them 2 months later than he should have.

Imagine if you cost your employer £4m by spending 2 months avoiding doing your work and briefing everyone that it was a plan to save money.

The problem is he set the bar too high for himself there. Once the most useless you can possibly be is still good enough, basically whatever you decide is the right thing to do, is the right thing to do.
Are you sure this was his fault or was it Moyes fault. Always thought it was Moyes fault as he wanted different players but when he couldn't get them, he panicked and bought Fellaini.
 

simonhch

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I'm sure you are very loved by the people in the General forum. :D Good read, though.
:lol: I have had my moments. Depends on the thread. We’ve had some great intellectual discussions in some threads about these types of things. But they tend to be about very specific business topics. I generally keep this type of info out of the rest of the threads, for good reason.
 

DoomSlayer

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:lol: I have had my moments. Depends on the thread. We’ve had some great intellectual discussions in some threads about these types of things. But they tend to be about very specific business topics. I generally keep this type of info out of the rest of the threads, for good reason.
Well played to you, man. You seem like a top professional and very talented person, you deserve everything you have achieved in life.
 

simonhch

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Well played to you, man. You seem like a top professional and very talented person, you deserve everything you have achieved in life.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s not been an easy path, and I hope there is much more to come. It’s not a healthy lifestyle though. Super stressful. And I have no social life.
 

SmallCaine

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Of course as a CEO you delegate, but typically your key personnel understand their roles exceptionally well, better than you often will, if they are appropriately qualified and skilled. Much of what you do with them is report analysis, problem solving and decision making. Your role is typically focused around integrating all the vital components of the value chain and how the relate to one another and allocating scarce resources; which is exceptionally time consuming. Different functions within a company will be competing for the same finite pool of resources and allocating appropriately is a delicate and difficult process.

You also have to manage the exploitative and explorative functions of the company, which are fundamentally completely different processes but also both intrinsically linked and essential for both short term and long term survivability. You are constantly managing change, which is the only constant in the business world; and handling never ending human capital issues. A CEOs work is never done.

Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.

I have an MBA specialised in the role of leadership in innovative environments and the role of technology. I am currently pursuing my doctorate in the same field, and am the CEO of a sports and entertainment SME.
That sir is a very good and informative post but the it also is the business version of what i would call the lingard defense. Where we judge a person by the effort he puts in rather than the performance he gives.

How hard he works or how difficult his job is not what people are questioning its his performance. You say he is being judged by financial performance, just a perusal of utd's 2019 Annual report shows he isn't doing a good job there either.

For all the various sponsorship deals he signs our commercial income has stagnated for last 3 years, given his and glazer''s complete indifference to OT, our matchday revenue has also stagnated too, it is the tv deals that are creating this illusion that he is doing a good job, for which he deserves no credit given his incompetent performance regarding the football side of business has actually lost us money as lack of CL football and our final position on the PL Table has clear effect on that income.

It is a really easy job for him, he might have to work hard but with any job there comes the big question of job security which depends on your performance and after 6 years of poor performance he is still in no danger of ever losing his job, which makes it a very easy job. There aren't many people in the world in such comfortable position as woodward is in.
 
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TwoSheds

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Of course as a CEO you delegate, but typically your key personnel understand their roles exceptionally well, better than you often will, if they are appropriately qualified and skilled. Much of what you do with them is report analysis, problem solving and decision making. Your role is typically focused around integrating all the vital components of the value chain and how the relate to one another and allocating scarce resources; which is exceptionally time consuming. Different functions within a company will be competing for the same finite pool of resources and allocating appropriately is a delicate and difficult process.

You also have to manage the exploitative and explorative functions of the company, which are fundamentally completely different processes but also both intrinsically linked and essential for both short term and long term survivability. You are constantly managing change, which is the only constant in the business world; and handling never ending human capital issues. A CEOs work is never done.

Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.

I have an MBA specialised in the role of leadership in innovative environments and the role of technology. I am currently pursuing my doctorate in the same field, and am the CEO of a sports and entertainment SME.
Do you know anything about controls theory? Whilst every step in the hierarchy is supposed to be "self-checking" and therefore you ought to be able to rely on it to a certain extent, the quickest way to check it yourself is to go to the bottom rung and check the input and see if it aligns with what the output is telling you. That's why generals used to go and look at the field of battle themselves, preferably on foot, rather than rely on what their advisers are telling them. Or to put it in an even simpler way: "the best manure is the sole of the farmer's boot".
 

Skills

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In England, people like Woodward do have it easy. Far too easy. Why are they not held accountable for consistent failures?

In countries with a different (better) football culture, the fans would do *something* to get rid of useless clowns like Woodward or your current manager. Where are the protests? Where are the empty stadiums? Why do people keep turning up? It's an attitude like this, and by no means, it's not just a Man Utd issue, why people like the Glazer's have leached off your club for a decade-plus.
He's the CEO of a publicly traded company who turnover close to record profits year on year, and has managed to protect the shareprice of the club. Ed Woodward is held accountable by the shareholders, and for the shareholders he's doing a good job.
 

Denis79

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Woodward is doing a great job for the owners, he simply sucks for the footballing side. We'll be a proper midtable team by the time he's done with us.
 

Annihilate Now!

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Ed Woodward by any metric is really, really bad at the football aspect of his job - and it doesn't matter how many great sponsors he gets us - that is an integral part of his job.

It doesn't matter how hard the job is - people do very well in difficult jobs all around the world - the fact that he is dreadful at a major aspect of his job should have meant he got relieved of those duties a long time ago... but he didn't, because he has the best job security in the world.
 

andycolegangstainnit

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The business side of the club has been a success since he took over in 2013. However, it is intrinsically linked to success on the pitch (our revenue will go down this year as we're not in UCL). The club has failed on the pitch since 2013 and as CEO he has to take some responsibility. Moyes was appointed before he took over from Gill. Binning Moyes off and replacing with LvG was the right thing to do at the time as was getting Jose when he was available (although clearly that didn't work out). Ole was a stop-gap and successful, appointing him permanent may have been premature. The managerial appointments weren't obviously bad when made but, with the exception of Ole, they players they all bought in haven't worked out.

Ed now has to step up to the plate. We are desperate for some creativity in midfield and need to sign two this window otherwise it will be another poor season. We are at the end of the road with Pogba - maybe swap him for Kroos + cash? Get someone in now like Eriksen or DvdBeek. They will come if the money is right. If Ole or Ed can't see what we can see then they need to go. Ed should appoint a DoF and step out of player activity altogether, take his holidays in the season and keep a low profile.
 

Bestietom

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Reason why I wouldn't like the job
1. You have to be a good Liar
2. You blame the manager for your downfall
3. You make up stories to keep the fans happy
 

DRM

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I have an MBA specialised in the role of leadership in innovative environments and the role of technology. I am currently pursuing my doctorate in the same field, and am the CEO of a sports and entertainment SME.
Interesting. I work in Pre-Sales in the sports and entertainment industry, what company do you work for?
 

soapythecat

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The tide is turning on Woodward. There are elements of United die hard fans actively seeking his address via social media. It will turn ugly soon.
If I had it, I’d give it to them.
 

jem

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His seasonal to do list looks as follows pretty much every year.

June - brief press with some bollocks about biggest club in the world, structural changes, new strategy, going to sign players
July - sign decent but underwhelming player, maybe a couple of youth players.
Brief press that we only want the right players.
August - panic and overpay for a couple of good players, argue with manager / coaching staff, brief press that you haven't argued with manager / coaching staff. Investor call.
September - sign new Vietnamese nappy sponsorship
October - do nothing
November - investor call, everything is wonderful, we definitely won't feck up any more transfers, manager's job is safe
December - keep head down while manager mentions new signings
January - don't sign anybody, brief press that it's a difficult time of year
February - investor call, poor season is bad luck plus someone/thing else's fault, next year will be better, more tractor sponsorships incoming
March - brief press that we've got all our ducks in a row for next season, strategy planned months in advance, new transfer system
April - do nothing, occasionally reassure press that someone's job is safe
May - investor call to explain disappointing financial results, possibly sack manager, new kit announced
June - brief press with some bollocks about biggest club in the world, structural changes, new strategy, going to sign players

@joelglazer I reckon I could do a cracking job of the above and I'll take half the salary, hit me up on LinkedIn please.
You should put this on Twitter/Instagram and then we all share the feck out of it. That's the kind of thing that actually would that cretin's attention.
 

noodlehair

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Are you sure this was his fault or was it Moyes fault. Always thought it was Moyes fault as he wanted different players but when he couldn't get them, he panicked and bought Fellaini.
Well no as it was well documented and constantly reported (and briefed from the club all summer) that we wanted to sign him.

Part of the problem is how willing people are to blame our managers for Woodward's idiocy.
 

Bestietom

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Well no as it was well documented and constantly reported (and briefed from the club all summer) that we wanted to sign him.

Part of the problem is how willing people are to blame our managers for Woodward's idiocy.
We could have had Eriksen and Strootman for less than we paid for Fellaini.
 

TwoSheds

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You should put this on Twitter/Instagram and then we all share the feck out of it. That's the kind of thing that actually would that cretin's attention.
Feel free :lol:
 

House Mkhitaryan

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Running Manchester United should be the easiest job in the football world, with all the advantages the club has. Somehow the Glazers and Woodward have managed to continually screw up virtually every aspect of this. The only explanations are intentional sabotage or breathtaking incompetence.
 

ivaldo

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I really can’t go into details but I’ve had access to a few of the top CEOs in the world. Household names. Albeit briefly, and the insight I gleaned was mind boggling. I’ve been in an around the top echelons of business for the past decade both from SMEs to NMEs, and all the most successful people have one thing in common; an unbelievable work ethic and stamina, married to exceptionally high quality of output. All of the top people in business pull preposterously long hours. You just don’t make it to the top and survive at the top if you don’t. Not in a merit based environment.
This is where I’ve gone wrong. I get very little out of my marriage that I’d classify as ‘high quality.’
 

SuperiorXI

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How are the Glazers allowed to simply 'service' a debt for so long? Doesn't that show no intention of ever paying it back and therefore should be illegal?
 

simonhch

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Do you know anything about controls theory? Whilst every step in the hierarchy is supposed to be "self-checking" and therefore you ought to be able to rely on it to a certain extent, the quickest way to check it yourself is to go to the bottom rung and check the input and see if it aligns with what the output is telling you. That's why generals used to go and look at the field of battle themselves, preferably on foot, rather than rely on what their advisers are telling them. Or to put it in an even simpler way: "the best manure is the sole of the farmer's boot".
I operate off the theory of operational excellence. Which requires similar understanding. That is that one needs to understand the processes, skills and structure which are essential to every aspect of the value chain, and be able to therefore identify potential problems in the chain before they arise, and deploy strategies to mitigate accordingly. Dependent on the complexity and breadth of your operation, will determine how granular your focus as a CEO can be. Your primarily limiting resource is time. It’s also goes back to balancing the exploitative and explorative functions of the organisation, as I said before. The CEO is one person whose mindset has to be ambidextrous, more than anyone else. That in itself is a huge challenge.
 

simonhch

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That sir is a very good and informative post but the it also is the business version of what i would call the lingard defense. Where we judge a person by the effort he puts in rather than the performance he gives.

How hard he works or how difficult his job is not what people are questioning its his performance. You say he is being judged by financial performance, just a perusal of utd's 2019 Annual report shows he isn't doing a good job there either.

For all the various sponsorship deals he signs our commercial income has stagnated for last 3 years, given his and glazer''s complete indifference to OT, our matchday revenue has also stagnated too, it is the tv deals that are creating this illusion that he is doing a good job, for which he deserves no credit given his incompetent performance regarding the football side of business has actually lost us money as lack of CL football and our final position on the PL Table has clear effect on that income.

It is a really easy job for him, he might have to work hard but with any job there comes the big question of job security which depends on your performance and after 6 years of poor performance he is still in no danger of ever losing his job, which makes it a very easy job. There aren't many people in the world in such comfortable position as woodward is in.
If you go back to a previous post I wrote, I put this:


“Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.”
 

SmallCaine

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If you go back to a previous post I wrote, I put this:


“Leadership is such an incredibly complex and nuanced discipline, and the easiest to get wrong. Woodward has shown many examples of poor leadership, I have broken this down in other posts in other threads; but I fundamentally disagree with the notion that his job is easy. I guarantee it isn’t. It’s irrelevant to his performance however, which has been very poor. The are several metrics by which he can be assessed, the board seem focused on financial performance but there is a clear decoupling of short term performance from long term strategic intent; as the lack of success on the pitch will ultimately weaken the brand and have a deleterious impact on economic outcomes.”
I am not arguing over performance or metrics here. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of finance can see Woodward has had little to do with our record profits he just lucked into the ceo post of one of the biggest clubs in the world just as the tv revenues started touching unbelievable heights.

A job for me is easy when you know however poorly you perform you cannot be sacked. Which is the case with Woodward.
 

simonhch

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I am not arguing over performance or metrics here. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of finance can see Woodward has had little to do with our record profits he just lucked into the ceo post of one of the biggest clubs in the world just as the tv revenues started touching unbelievable heights.

A job for me is easy when you know however poorly you perform you cannot be sacked. Which is the case with Woodward.
You don’t know that at all. That’s a supposition on your part, and probably a wholly inaccurate one. If the club started losing money and value year on year, he’d probably be sacked. You are just trying to shoehorn your rage into a narrative that doesn’t really have any factual basis.
 

mariachi-19

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I am not arguing over performance or metrics here. Anyone with the most rudimentary understanding of finance can see Woodward has had little to do with our record profits he just lucked into the ceo post of one of the biggest clubs in the world just as the tv revenues started touching unbelievable heights.

A job for me is easy when you know however poorly you perform you cannot be sacked. Which is the case with Woodward.
From a commercial relationship perspective, there is actually little to criticise Ed Woodward for. By all accounts it was his ability to get the Chevrolet deal over the line that lead to him being given the big job. He has also been at the club virtually since the Glazer take over. I think it is very unfair to discredit the man by claiming that he had nothing to do with our increased revenue and profits. In fact, it is arguable that his impact in that area of our club is the only reason he has retained his job. In fact, his exploitation of our onfield success has the most amount to do with record profits and I have very little doubt that he had some sort of input into the collective bargaining arrangement for that monumental tv deal.

The mans failure from a performance perspective lies solely in the running of the football side of operations. It is clear that as a CEO he has failed in virtually every metric in that regard, but if you're a shareholder what do you do? On one side, he's arguably the best man in the game at increasing financial turnover. On a footballing side, he's average at best when it comes to running football operations. I belive fundamentally he needs a Footballing Director to take control but as control is something that many in his position are willing to give up.

Personally, I am of the opinion that Ole will be the final straw for Ed. If he swims, he'll retain his role, if he sinks, he's out the door. Funnily enough, I personally believe Ole would be the perfect Director of Football for this club. Not as a coach, but instilling an ideaology and mentality into the players and staff on what it means to be a Manchester United player and coach. I dont think he necessarily needs to be sacked and there is no shame in admitting that from a managerial side, admitting he's not competent enough to run the first team, but in terms of his overrall recruitement and finding the right mentality of players for the club, I dont have any issue with him.
 

SmallCaine

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From a commercial relationship perspective, there is actually little to criticise Ed Woodward for. By all accounts it was his ability to get the Chevrolet deal over the line that lead to him being given the big job. He has also been at the club virtually since the Glazer take over. I think it is very unfair to discredit the man by claiming that he had nothing to do with our increased revenue and profits. In fact, it is arguable that his impact in that area of our club is the only reason he has retained his job. In fact, his exploitation of our onfield success has the most amount to do with record profits and I have very little doubt that he had some sort of input into the collective bargaining arrangement for that monumental tv deal.

The mans failure from a performance perspective lies solely in the running of the football side of operations. It is clear that as a CEO he has failed in virtually every metric in that regard, but if you're a shareholder what do you do? On one side, he's arguably the best man in the game at increasing financial turnover. On a footballing side, he's average at best when it comes to running football operations. I belive fundamentally he needs a Footballing Director to take control but as control is something that many in his position are willing to give up.

Personally, I am of the opinion that Ole will be the final straw for Ed. If he swims, he'll retain his role, if he sinks, he's out the door. Funnily enough, I personally believe Ole would be the perfect Director of Football for this club. Not as a coach, but instilling an ideaology and mentality into the players and staff on what it means to be a Manchester United player and coach. I dont think he necessarily needs to be sacked and there is no shame in admitting that from a managerial side, admitting he's not competent enough to run the first team, but in terms of his overrall recruitement and finding the right mentality of players for the club, I dont have any issue with him.
He had early success and the Chevrolet deal he should get credit for. But the rest is just hype, something he seems to be very good at.

The commercial success has now gone stagnant, the commercial income will go down next year as we won't most likely get top 4 and adidas money goes down.

For me he has little to do with the tv deals and not just him but rather anyone who claims credit for tv deals. If you look at sport related tv deals across the globe they seem to have gone crazy over last decade, not just pl, look at every big sport from nba to ipl. Unless all business executives in sports across the world suddenly gained some magical insight that collectively helped them dupe the tv folk, this had more to do with fans rather than the executives.
 

mariachi-19

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He had early success and the Chevrolet deal he should get credit for. But the rest is just hype, something he seems to be very good at.

The commercial success has now gone stagnant, the commercial income will go down next year as we won't most likely get top 4 and adidas money goes down.

For me he has little to do with the tv deals and not just him but rather anyone who claims credit for tv deals. If you look at sport related tv deals across the globe they seem to have gone crazy over last decade, not just pl, look at every big sport from nba to ipl. Unless all business executives in sports across the world suddenly gained some magical insight that collectively helped them dupe the tv folk, this had more to do with fans rather than the executives.
You need to understand that there is a market cap when it comes to overall spending power of sponsors when it comes to sponsorship deals. IE: the industry does not cater for huge increases in the market when it falls out of line with the existing relationships with other established brands. From a sponsorship perspective, why would I pay Manchester United 100 million a year for a shirt deal when the next best which is nearly as equally attractive, only receives 60 million. If you're running a commercial business, that is mind bogglingly stupid.


We also have long term deals which were entered into towards the start of the last decade. Those deals were always going to rapidly increase net income at the start and flatten out over the duration of the relationship. Its not that it is going stagnant, it is that market growth has slowed.

As a marketer, hype is exactly what he should be good at. You are selling a product and you're trying to receive maximum return from that investment.

Sorry, but from a commercial perceptive, anybody that criticizes Woodward hasn't got a fecking clue and its a very good insight why I take 90% of the members on this forum with a pinch of salt because there is no understanding of the accountability or ramifications of those types of decisions.
 

SmallCaine

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You need to understand that there is a market cap when it comes to overall spending power of sponsors when it comes to sponsorship deals. IE: the industry does not cater for huge increases in the market when it falls out of line with the existing relationships with other established brands. From a sponsorship perspective, why would I pay Manchester United 100 million a year for a shirt deal when the next best which is nearly as equally attractive, only receives 60 million. If you're running a commercial business, that is mind bogglingly stupid.


We also have long term deals which were entered into towards the start of the last decade. Those deals were always going to rapidly increase net income at the start and flatten out over the duration of the relationship. Its not that it is going stagnant, it is that market growth has slowed.

As a marketer, hype is exactly what he should be good at. You are selling a product and you're trying to receive maximum return from that investment.

Sorry, but from a commercial perceptive, anybody that criticizes Woodward hasn't got a fecking clue and its a very good insight why I take 90% of the members on this forum with a pinch of salt because there is no understanding of the accountability or ramifications of those types of decisions.
I don't understand what you are trying to say in the first para, I am giving woody full credit for the chevrolet deal, tells you how good a deal it was for us given chevrolet fired the guy who agreed it for them. I also understand that he isn't a djinn from a disney movie, there are practical limits to what growth he can achieve, my criticism is for the fact that he is hailed as some sort of a genius with sponsors what with the new mattress sponsors and Tyre sponsors and what not being announced every few months, the actual impact of these deals on utd's p&l seems negligible. Our sponsorship income in 2015-16 was 171.33 mn in 2018-19 it was 173.01 mn, hence my stagnation comment.

Also the hype i meant by is the hype he generates for himself not for the club. He has built himself this image that he is some sort of a sponsorship wizard, but outside of the chevrolet deal he hasn't really bagged any deals that make his performance at utd stand out, the adidas deal was us being first in line to receive bumper new deals given our status in football. Madrid, Barca both in next 3-4 years renewed their deals and got a lot more money than us.
 

mariachi-19

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I don't understand what you are trying to say in the first para, I am giving woody full credit for the chevrolet deal, tells you how good a deal it was for us given chevrolet fired the guy who agreed it for them. I also understand that he isn't a djinn from a disney movie, there are practical limits to what growth he can achieve, my criticism is for the fact that he is hailed as some sort of a genius with sponsors what with the new mattress sponsors and Tyre sponsors and what not being announced every few months, the actual impact of these deals on utd's p&l seems negligible. Our sponsorship income in 2015-16 was 171.33 mn in 2018-19 it was 173.01 mn, hence my stagnation comment.

Also the hype i meant by is the hype he generates for himself not for the club. He has built himself this image that he is some sort of a sponsorship wizard, but outside of the chevrolet deal he hasn't really bagged any deals that make his performance at utd stand out, the adidas deal was us being first in line to receive bumper new deals given our status in football. Madrid, Barca both in next 3-4 years renewed their deals and got a lot more money than us.
Every sponsorship deal has a value attached to it. Chevrolet perceived Manchester United jersey to be worth 50 million in the market in which the deal was agreed. Even now it is still one of the largest deals in sport ever for naming sponsorship. The market dictates the value of that 50 million that and it is highly unlikely that we will get another shirt sponsor that will double that or even increase the amount by 70% as Chevrolet did with Aon. More than likely we will see a 10 million pound increase p.a. over the existing deal from chevrolet.

You cannot expect United and Woodward to grow the brand value as much as they did between 2010 and 2018 because the market is not the same and it will stagnate. It virtually has nothing to do with our lack of success, but rather that we were already at the high point in sponsorship revenue and the rest of the world is playing catch up.
 

Pexbo

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What I still don't get about Woodward is how he wasn't sacked after the transfer window in Moyes's first season?

I mean, he literally managed to pay £4m OVER the release clause of a player to sign them, for no other reason than to sign them 2 months later than he should have.

Imagine if you cost your employer £4m by spending 2 months avoiding doing your work and briefing everyone that it was a plan to save money.

The problem is he set the bar too high for himself there. Once the most useless you can possibly be is still good enough, basically whatever you decide is the right thing to do, is the right thing to do.
Moyes has since admitted that was down to him. He was determined not to make Fellaini his first signing at the club because he knew the optics so we worked on other transfers over the summer but when they failed to materialise Moyes conceded that we would need Fellaini so we had to go back in for him and pay more than if he’d just grown some balls and signed him in the first place. Moyes has since been sacked.
 

noodlehair

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Moyes has since admitted that was down to him. He was determined not to make Fellaini his first signing at the club because he knew the optics so we worked on other transfers over the summer but when they failed to materialise Moyes conceded that we would need Fellaini so we had to go back in for him and pay more than if he’d just grown some balls and signed him in the first place. Moyes has since been sacked.
Was Moyes in charge of United's money?

If you had an employee who told you this plan and you were in charge of the money would it not be your responsibility to tell them they are being stupid? Particularly if you are the one working on the "other transfers" so would be in a pretty good position to know they weren't likely to materlialise.

Excuses are excuses. You can put 100% of the blame on the managers if you like, but then after 4 managers you'd have to ask who the idiot is who keeps allowing other idiots to manage the team...