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justboy68

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Neymar is far better than both of them. Bale and Hazard are probably on a similar level.
 

Orc

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Never. Literally all he has over him is his strength and top speed. Neymar is quicker on the turn or more agile, and then Neymar just has so much more talent then Bale and has comfortably outperformed him this season and outscored him. Been brilliant all year, where as Bale has been pretty shite but has a decent goal record.
I'm not talking about form here. I just prefer the pace and power of Bale.

If I were a top Premier League club in need of a top wide player I'd have Bale.
 

bosnian_red

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I'm not talking about form here. I just prefer the pace and power of Bale.

If I were a top Premier League club in need of a top wide player I'd have Bale.
Fair enough, I'm just saying that apart from his overall top speed (Neymar is really fast anyways) and strength, there's not really anything that Bale is better then Neymar at.
 

Orc

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Fair enough, I'm just saying that apart from his overall top speed (Neymar is really fast anyways) and strength, there's not really anything that Bale is better then Neymar at.
I'd just like to see Neymar do it week in and week out against sides that don't just bend over like they do in Spain. He benefits greatly (as any player would) from playing with players and in a team that dominates most weeks against weak opposition. He's allowed space and time that I'm not sure he'd get in the Premier League.

Whereas CR7 tore up the league, Messi surely would, Bale did in his last year, and Hazard is doing now, I'm not so positive Neymar would. He'd be very good, of course, but I'm not sure he'd be at Hazard's level here.
 

bosnian_red

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Better then Hazard at it for sure, not sure about Neymer. Shooting from range Bale's as good or better then anyone probably but Neymar has got 9 more goals this season in about 250 less minutes, and has scored a few great goals himself.
 

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I'd just like to see Neymar do it week in and week out against sides that don't just bend over like they do in Spain. He benefits greatly (as any player would) from playing with players and in a team that dominates most weeks against weak opposition. He's allowed space and time that I'm not sure he'd get in the Premier League.
I really wonder when this myth finally dies... The defending in the PL is comical at times. 90% of the opponents sit back and defend against Barcelona as well, just like in England. it's just that Barcelona's attack is stacked with quality.
 

bosnian_red

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I'd just like to see Neymar do it week in and week out against sides that don't just bend over like they do in Spain. He benefits greatly (as any player would) from playing with players and in a team that dominates most weeks against weak opposition. He's allowed space and time that I'm not sure he'd get in the Premier League.

Whereas CR7 tore up the league, Messi surely would, Bale did in his last year, and Hazard is doing now, I'm not so positive Neymar would. He'd be very good, of course, but I'm not sure he'd be at Hazard's level here.
That's really harsh and not fair on La Liga though. There's more space in the spanish league, but Bale is in the same league as Neymar and is struggling (despite having a pretty good goal record) in an even better team then Barca, whereas Neymar has been one of the best players in the league this year. Both in the same competition and the same amount of appearances but Neymar has 9 goals more. They could say the same over there basically, that they would like to see Bale do it in the spanish league consistently and not just score a tap in or a shot from range now and then, and not just live off his reputation of having a great season 2 years ago in the premier league.
 

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I'd just like to see Neymar do it week in and week out against sides that don't just bend over like they do in Spain. He benefits greatly (as any player would) from playing with players and in a team that dominates most weeks against weak opposition. He's allowed space and time that I'm not sure he'd get in the Premier League.

Whereas CR7 tore up the league, Messi surely would, Bale did in his last year, and Hazard is doing now, I'm not so positive Neymar would. He'd be very good, of course, but I'm not sure he'd be at Hazard's level here.
What about Sanchez who's finding it not too difficult to perform impressively in England when he couldn't do the same at Barca while benefiting from the same system and team ? Seriously there is nothing special about the PL defending. When you're good, you have the most chances to be good anywhere.
 

RooneyLegend

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Better then Hazard at it for sure, not sure about Neymer. Shooting from range Bale's as good or better then anyone probably but Neymar has got 9 more goals this season in about 250 less minutes, and has scored a few great goals himself.
Yes, Neymar is scoring goals at a better but they're basic finishes(apart from 1 or 2). Bale scores goals from ranges Neymar hasn't shown the capability of doing, definitely not on a consistent basis. So it'd be pace, power, rocket shot, certainly a fair few categories.
 

Snake Plissken

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I'd just like to see Neymar do it week in and week out against sides that don't just bend over like they do in Spain. He benefits greatly (as any player would) from playing with players and in a team that dominates most weeks against weak opposition. He's allowed space and time that I'm not sure he'd get in the Premier League.

Whereas CR7 tore up the league, Messi surely would, Bale did in his last year, and Hazard is doing now, I'm not so positive Neymar would. He'd be very good, of course, but I'm not sure he'd be at Hazard's level here.
You're a bit ignorant about Spanish football I think. For what it's worth Premier League defending has been nothing short of appalling in recent years. Probably why guys like Aguero, Costa, Silva went there and did better.

There's no evidence to suggest Neymar wouldn't light the Premier League up.
 

Bob Loblaw

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Really eh. Hazard and Neymar are both comfortably better overall then Bale. Both of them are better in just about every aspect other then overall top speed, their strength and then then Bale beats Hazard goal scoring wise. Bale's not a patch on the other 2 with every other aspect of their games.
I know, my post was sarcastic. Fully agree with you.
 

Snake Plissken

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I really wonder when this myth finally dies... The defending in the PL is comical at times. 90% of the opponents sit back and defend against Barcelona as well, just like in England. it's just that Barcelona's attack is stacked with quality.
exactly. Just look at the way Suarez are struggled for goals, found it difficult to play his game with so many defenders in front of him, then cast our minds back to how easily he took the piss in the Premier League last season.
 

bosnian_red

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I know, my post was sarcastic. Fully agree with you.
I know, was agreeing with you too haha. "Eh" in Canada is like a do you agree type term though it has different contexts..
 

Orc

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Why are teams finishing with goal differences of 60-70+ if the standard of defending is just like it is in England? Why do you see individual players scoring 50 or 60 goals? No way would that happen in the Premier League, surely?

The big boys totally dominate and run up the score against the little guys and stats are heavily inflated. A world class player is a world class player, but you can't tell me that they don't find it easier over there.

Any team can beat/compete with any team in the PL. It's mass hysteria if any of the smaller teams beat Barca or Madrid becasue they're on another planet.
 

Snake Plissken

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Why are teams finishing with goal differences of 60-70+ if the standard of defending is just like it is in England? Why do you see individual players scoring 50 or 60 goals? No way would that happen in the Premier League, surely?

The big boys totally dominate and run up the score against the little guys and stats are heavily inflated. A world class player is a world class player, but you can't tell me that they don't find it easier over there.

Any team can beat/compete with any team in the PL. It's mass hysteria if any of the smaller teams beat Barca or Madrid becasue they're on another planet.
because those players and teams are much better than anything in the Premier League, pretty simple, and pretty obvious too if I'm honest.
 

gofelx

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Why are teams finishing with goal differences of 60-70+ if the standard of defending is just like it is in England? Why do you see individual players scoring 50 or 60 goals? No way would that happen in the Premier League, surely?
Who else other than Messi and Ronaldo are getting 40+ goals in the League?

The big boys totally dominate and run up the score against the little guys and stats are heavily inflated. A world class player is a world class player, but you can't tell me that they don't find it easier over there.
So why is Sanchez scoring for fun in England then, he wasn't that vital for Barcelona at all. Costa as well is having a massive impact at Chelsea. Fabregas didn't feature in Barcelona's future plans and is now getting numbers for Chelsea which he never had in Spain.
Meanwhile Suarez is struggling at Barcelona, how many League goals does he have for them now? Bale as well, he looks nowhere near as good as he did for Spurs.

Any team can beat/compete with any team in the PL. It's mass hysteria if any of the smaller teams beat Barca or Madrid becasue they're on another planet.
As someone else mentioned, Real Madrid and Barca are simply better than the best team in England. Look how close the title race is over in Spain while Chelsea is running away in the League.
 

Orc

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exactly. Just look at the way Suarez are struggled for goals, found it difficult to play his game with so many defenders in front of him, then cast our minds back to how easily he took the piss in the Premier League last season.
Suarez has been used to being the man. The #1 option. He's used to being by far the best player on his team. Now he has a host of world class players around him so of course his stats are going to dip. Alexis had the same issue. Someone above asked why Alexis looks so much better with Arsenal than he did in Spain, it's beacuse he's now the top player in his side and is the player whom everything runs through.

Look at Özil. He was arguably the best #10 in the world at RM and slayed that league. Put up monstrous stats. Finding it much harder here.
 

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There is absolutely no way Hazard is better than Neymar. Neymar has went from being overrated To underrated.
 

Snake Plissken

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Suarez has been used to being the man. The #1 option. He's used to being by far the best player on his team. Now he has a host of world class players around him so of course his stats are going to dip. Alexis had the same issue. Someone above asked why Alexis looks so much better with Arsenal than he did in Spain, it's beacuse he's now the top player in his side and is the player whom everything runs through.

Look at Özil. He was arguably the best #10 in the world at RM and slayed that league. Put up monstrous stats. Finding it much harder here.
So they didn't have as much quality around them in the premier league, and they found it easier and scored freely unlike Spain when they struggled more with greater talent feeding them, and that's your argument for it being harder to score in the PL? :lol:
 

Snake Plissken

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Suarez has been used to being the man. The #1 option. He's used to being by far the best player on his team. Now he has a host of world class players around him so of course his stats are going to dip. Alexis had the same issue. Someone above asked why Alexis looks so much better with Arsenal than he did in Spain, it's beacuse he's now the top player in his side and is the player whom everything runs through.

Look at Özil. He was arguably the best #10 in the world at RM and slayed that league. Put up monstrous stats. Finding it much harder here.
That's only because Ozil has had to hit Giroud instead of Ronaldo, Benzema and Di Maria. That and injuries mean he hasn't hit the same form.
 

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Hazard is very good but both Bale and Neymar better. The latter pair have shown to be match winners time and time again. They also score on a far consistent basis. Hazard looks magical at times but doesn't do as regularly as Neymar and Bale.
 

Orc

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So they didn't have as much quality around them in the premier league, and they found it easier and scored freely unlike Spain when they struggled more with greater talent feeding them, and that's your argument for it being harder to score in the PL? :lol:
Sanchez is the go to, #1 option for Arsenal. He's the player expected to shoulder the load and be their "superstar."

He wasn't that at Barca, was he? Nor was he always played in his best position.
 

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I find the arguments about it being harder to score in Spain vs England silly. For every Alexis Sanchez there will be a Diego Forlan, and obviously a host of other factors which contributed to their varying performances in the two leagues.
 

Bob Loblaw

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Why are teams finishing with goal differences of 60-70+ if the standard of defending is just like it is in England? Why do you see individual players scoring 50 or 60 goals? No way would that happen in the Premier League, surely?
If Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo played in England do you think they wouldn't actually score 50 or 60? The reason that you see players in Spain score 50/60 goals a season is because you have Messi and Cristiano in Spain. It's not because of some magical standard of defending that exists only in England.

Name the top 5 or 10 players in England right now - how many are imports from Spain? The vast majority.

The big boys totally dominate and run up the score against the little guys and stats are heavily inflated. A world class player is a world class player, but you can't tell me that they don't find it easier over there.

Any team can beat/compete with any team in the PL. It's mass hysteria if any of the smaller teams beat Barca or Madrid becasue they're on another planet.
How do players find it easier in Spain? The evidence suggests otherwise - Torres, Cesc and a lot more have talked about the differences in both leagues and they always say playing in England is easier because you have far more space to play in. Torres himself said that defenders in England aren't as good tactically as in Spain...
 

Orc

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If Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo played in England do you think they wouldn't actually score 50 or 60? The reason that you see players in Spain score 50/60 goals a season is because you have Messi and Cristiano in Spain. It's not because of some magical standard of defending that exists only in England.

Name the top 5 or 10 players in England right now - how many are imports from Spain? The vast majority.



How do players find it easier in Spain? The evidence suggests otherwise - Torres, Cesc and a lot more have talked about the differences in both leagues and they always say playing in England is easier because you have far more space to play in. Torres himself said that defenders in England aren't as good tactically as in Spain...
No chance would they score 60 goals in the PL. Your very own Suarez had about as good a season as you can have goal scoring wise and barely cracked 30. Same with Aguero and RvP in the past couple of seasons.

As good as Messi and Ronaldo are there's no way they'd literally double what Suarez etc have done.
 

Bob Loblaw

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No chance would they score 60 goals in the PL. Your very own Suarez had about as good a season as you can have goal scoring wise and barely cracked 30. Same with Aguero and RvP in the past couple of seasons.

As good as Messi and Ronaldo are there's no way they'd literally double what Suarez etc have done.
I was only using "50/60" because you used it, I assumed you were talking about goals in all competitions. Doesn't really make sense otherwise, given Messi/Cristiano have only hit 50 league goals in 1 season once between them...
 

Snake Plissken

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Sanchez is the go to, #1 option for Arsenal. He's the player expected to shoulder the load and be their "superstar."

He wasn't that at Barca, was he? Nor was he always played in his best position.
You have to realise that you're arguments make no sense though.

Sanchez was appalling in front of goal for Barca at the best of times, missing right in front of goal. He seems to find it much easier to play in England, but I think part of it is the mental side, he seemed to struggle with the burden of playing for Barca who many still regarded as the top team at the time, as opposed to Arsenal where not much is really expected these days.

But anyway, you're essentially telling me and Sanchez went and lit up the Premier League after struggling at Barca, and Neymar wouldn't do that in the PL despite doing very well where Alexis failed. Quite funny
 

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No chance would they score 60 goals in the PL. Your very own Suarez had about as good a season as you can have goal scoring wise and barely cracked 30. Same with Aguero and RvP in the past couple of seasons.

As good as Messi and Ronaldo are there's no way they'd literally double what Suarez etc have done.
Ronaldo cracked 30 before he left, why wouldn't he get up to 50? Year by year since then his rate improved for Real. Aguero and Suarez basically have a goal per game here respectively in this season and last, and they're a level below both Ronaldo and Messi.

I struggle to see what people think is so special about the PL that sets it apart from La Liga despite from the fact that more goals are scored and conceded in the PL than La Liga. The only possible justification you could give for them not scoring as many would be that there hasn't been any team in the PL at the level of those Real and Barca sides since Ronaldo left.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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His contract extension is another efficient bit of business by Chelsea, no long drawn out negotiations, no links to Real, PSG or Barca, short and sweet, deal done.
 

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Ronaldo cracked 30 before he left, why wouldn't he get up to 50? Year by year since then his rate improved for Real. Aguero and Suarez basically have a goal per game here respectively in this season and last, and they're a level below both Ronaldo and Messi.

I struggle to see what people think is so special about the PL that sets it apart from La Liga despite from the fact that more goals are scored and conceded in the PL than La Liga. The only possible justification you could give for them not scoring as many would be that there hasn't been any team in the PL at the level of those Real and Barca sides since Ronaldo left.
There's no way Ronaldo scores 50+ a season in this league. Just wouldn't happen.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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You're right, despite the league being weaker, the defences being worse, and teams scoring more goals, there's no way it'd happen, because .. uh .. because?
No way to know for sure, except that Ronaldo never came close to those figures when he was here. He has improved, no doubt about that, but not that much in my opinion. Defences aren't really much worse, it's quite marginal. The only thing the Spanish league has over the Premier League is technical ability. However, sides who come up against Real or Barca very rarely abandon their passing game and go direct (Atletico do it perfectly), they continue to play the only way they know how, and they get hammered. In England, or even Germany tbf, teams would simply put 10 men behind the ball and try to make the game as physical as possible. Doesn't often happen in Spain, and when it does the referees tend to go in favour of Barca and Madrid.


Anyway, throughout the history of the English league, only Dixie Dean (that I can recall) has ever managed 50+ a season. That Ronaldo and Messi would score the same amount as a matter of fact isn't a certainty.
 

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Nice to see the delusion that the Premier League, especially regards defending, is incomparable to the Spanish League still remains unshakeable in some. It's similar to the Stoke 'Wednesday night' crap as if the Spanish League has no physical teams whatsoever. If Messi and Ronaldo came to England they could easily reproduce the numbers they are getting in Spain. The only potential stumbling blocks would be the difference in quality of the players behind them, and how quickly they would adapt to the league.
 

bosnian_red

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No way to know for sure, except that Ronaldo never came close to those figures when he was here. He has improved, no doubt about that, but not that much in my opinion. Defences aren't really much worse, it's quite marginal. The only thing the Spanish league has over the Premier League is technical ability. However, sides who come up against Real or Barca very rarely abandon their passing game and go direct (Atletico do it perfectly), they continue to play the only way they know how, and they get hammered. In England, or even Germany tbf, teams would simply put 10 men behind the ball and try to make the game as physical as possible. Doesn't often happen in Spain, and when it does the referees tend to go in favour of Barca and Madrid.


Anyway, throughout the history of the English league, only Dixie Dean (that I can recall) has ever managed 50+ a season. That Ronaldo and Messi would score the same amount as a matter of fact isn't a certainty.
Ronaldo and Messi are better then anyone who has ever player in the premier league though. It's not like they're scoring 50+ league goals (Messi got to 50 once, Ronaldo's max is 46), but both keep up their scoring record in the champions league which is definitely the hardest competition so it's ridiculous to say they wouldn't score as many in the premier league. I think if there's one thing guaranteed, is that both Ronaldo and Messi would probably score 50 goals in all competitions at least wherever they go. Just so long as they are part of the best teams of course. Aguero and Costa have both improved their goal record since coming to the premier league so why exactly would Ronaldo and Messi not score as much?
 

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His contract extension is another efficient bit of business by Chelsea, no long drawn out negotiations, no links to Real, PSG or Barca, short and sweet, deal done.
He was linked to PSG a lot last summer, and he wouldn't get into Barcelona's or Madrid's team, so they're not gonna spend massive money on him.
 

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Ronaldo and Messi are better then anyone who has ever player in the premier league though. It's not like they're scoring 50+ league goals (Messi got to 50 once, Ronaldo's max is 46), but both keep up their scoring record in the champions league which is definitely the hardest competition so it's ridiculous to say they wouldn't score as many in the premier league. I think if there's one thing guaranteed, is that both Ronaldo and Messi would probably score 50 goals in all competitions at least wherever they go. Just so long as they are part of the best teams of course. Aguero and Costa have both improved their goal record since coming to the premier league so why exactly would Ronaldo and Messi not score as much?
It's all speculative tbh. In the end it comes down to opinion. 40 odd league goals a season seems about right to me for Messi and Ronaldo, with 60+ goals in total. But who knows.
 

Mciahel Goodman

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Nice to see the delusion that the Premier League, especially regards defending, is incomparable to the Spanish League still remains unshakeable in some. It's similar to the Stoke 'Wednesday night' crap as if the Spanish League has no physical teams whatsoever. If Messi and Ronaldo came to England they could easily reproduce the numbers they are getting in Spain. The only potential stumbling blocks would be the difference in quality of the players behind them, and how quickly they would adapt to the league.
Agreed, and those are massive "what-ifs" in my opinion.
 

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It's all speculative tbh. In the end it comes down to opinion. 40 odd league goals a season seems about right to me for Messi and Ronaldo, with 60+ goals in total. But who knows.

So, more or less the same as they are achieving in Spain?
 

bosnian_red

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It's all speculative tbh. In the end it comes down to opinion. 40 odd league goals a season seems about right to me for Messi and Ronaldo, with 60+ goals in total. But who knows.
Agreed, and those are massive "what-ifs" in my opinion.
Obviously all speculation, but it's hardly a what if when Ronaldo tore up the league and set goalscoring records at the age of 22/23, and him and Messi are far better now then what he was then. I mean with Messi we're talking arguably the best all around player ever, and Ronaldo being one of the best goalscorers ever as well. It's a lot closer to a guarantee that they'd replicate the same numbers in the premier league as in La Liga. Bale for example has gotten worse number wise from the premier league to la liga, so why would the others be opposite?
 
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