Ederson - Atalanta Midfielder

Hammondo said:
Partey is a better passer and better defensively.
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If that’s the case, then I’m afraid Ederson might not fit the profile to play in PL. But if Ederson’s passing and defensive ability talent is the same as Partey then he can grow throughout time means he has the ceiling and talent to play in PL.
 
JE-365 said:
If that’s the case, then I’m afraid Ederson might not fit the profile to play in PL. But if Ederson’s passing and defensive ability talent is the same as Partey then he can grow throughout time means he has the ceiling and talent to play in PL.
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Partey has been really good for Arsenal, so not sure what you mean by this. Not being as good as him does not mean Éderson isn't good enough for Premier League. His profile is actually perfect for Premier League, because he has the athleticism, strength, tenacity and energy, probably more so than Partey who is more of a holding defensive midfielder. Ideally, he would be a better passer, but he is more than good enough and has shown it in Champions League previously. Very few midfielders in the league are metronome midfielders with exceptional passing ability, yet they are able to play at a very high level because they have a lot of other qualities, and I reckon Éderson could do the same. He could be our own Bruno Guimaraes if he keeps on developing.
 
I would rather spend the money on Ignacio he can play as a progressive DM or CB, gives us cover in 2 positions and would still be a upgrade on Ugarte and Case
 
sullydnl said:
The flipside is that there's quite a quite a high chance Cunha's signing is the key step in addressing that issue next season, as him becoming a certain starter at #10 may see Bruno shift to primarily playing in CM.

If that's the plan, then our needs from a CM signing shift. Because rather than our primary need being a CM to fill that Bruno/Eriksen gap in ball progression, it instead becomes a CM who can complement/improve/add depth to the first choice Bruno/Ugarte midfield pairing.

If the new CM is going to regularly play alongside Bruno rather than instead of him, the focus needs to skew more towards physicality and defensive output than it would otherwise. But while also offering more progression than Ugarte, who he would likely also be paired with quite regularly. Which to my mind leads us much closer to an Ederson-profile player.
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And what happens if Bruno gets injured or needs to play in the #10 role? We need someone there, so we can free up Bruno and let him be near goal. Bruno x Cunha x Amad will be tasty.

We already spent 60M on a DM last season. We also have Casemiro/Collyer and Kone.

We need another #8 if Eriksen is leaving. Unless, Mainoo will play deeper next season. Then we would probably need another #10.
 
Remember the geese said:
He's everything we need in midfield.
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Aggression, perpetual movement, ability to thread the ball through bodies without a second thought. And he’s young with room for growth.

Costly? Sure, but the quality is undeniable. It’s a bit twisted talking these kind of exorbitant fees for Ederson when you see how Wharton plays and what he provides.
 
Fortitude said:
Aggression, perpetual movement, ability to thread the ball through bodies without a second thought. And he’s young with room for growth.

Costly? Sure, but the quality is undeniable. It’s a bit twisted talking these kind of exorbitant fees for Ederson when you see how Wharton plays and what he provides.
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I think Wharton will likely go for close to double what Ederson will. Ederson is a perfectly fine player, but the idea of forking out £50m for him is a bit galling when you just know that Wharton will be making a big move in the next 12 months.
 
I like this because it provides cover and competition for Ugarte as well as providing us with the option to play Bruno as a 10 and have a CM pairing of Edersen and Ugarte in bigger games.
 
JE-365 said:
I was speechless that I had to provide more detail to you about Ugarte with no technical ability / no athleticism in Ederson thread
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I didn’t need more detail, just less hyperbole.

Thanks for correcting it, and the following discussion.

Have a good evening
 
DSG said:
Interesting… I was expecting Rice to jump off the charts, but I guess this reflects the fact that he’s playing further forward.
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Yeah it's only really the progressive carries and key passes where Rice stands out from Ederson
 
RobbieBerns said:
I like this because it provides cover and competition for Ugarte as well as providing us with the option to play Bruno as a 10 and have a CM pairing of Edersen and Ugarte in bigger games.
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Ederson and Casemiro in the bigger games. Statistically I’m pretty sure I read that Case has outperformed Ugarte in most areas this season, and to me that’s been clear to watch too.
 
If we’re looking for more of the same in midfield then I’d rather see if Juve would loan us Douglas Luiz for a season whilst Kone further develops than signing Ederson for £50+ million, at least with Luiz you know he’s got the experience of the PL and is low risk.

I’d much rather we spent the extra millions on bringing Wharton in as he’s the perfect blend of defensive ball winning and positioning mixed with physicality and a great range of passing, I said years ago that we should have brought Declan Rice in as we’d most likely get 10+ years out of him so it was a cost effective signing and I think the exact same for Wharton who’s also pretty much a local lad having been born and bred in Blackburn.
 
davidmichael said:
If we’re looking for more of the same in midfield then I’d rather see if Juve would loan us Douglas Luiz for a season whilst Kone further develops than signing Ederson for £50+ million, at least with Luiz you know he’s got the experience of the PL and is low risk.

I’d much rather we spent the extra millions on bringing Wharton in as he’s the perfect blend of defensive ball winning and positioning mixed with physicality and a great range of passing, I said years ago that we should have brought Declan Rice in as we’d most likely get 10+ years out of him so it was a cost effective signing and I think the exact same for Wharton who’s also pretty much a local lad having been born and bred in Blackburn.
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Sounds like a good plan that.
 
Remember the geese said:
I think Wharton will likely go for close to double what Ederson will. Ederson is a perfectly fine player, but the idea of forking out £50m for him is a bit galling when you just know that Wharton will be making a big move in the next 12 months.
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Yeah scousers are sniffing around him apparently
 
Fortitude said:
Aggression, perpetual movement, ability to thread the ball through bodies without a second thought. And he’s young with room for growth.

Costly? Sure, but the quality is undeniable. It’s a bit twisted talking these kind of exorbitant fees for Ederson when you see how Wharton plays and what he provides.
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Agree on this. Look at the Caicedo and Rice fees, both huge fees for a midfielder but when the quality is there, paying up for it will actually work out cheaper in the long term. I would rather we go for Wharton over Ederson if we get Champions league. Offer 70-80m to Palace and I think there’s a good chance they may take it. We would be setting ourselves up for a decade if we get him, he can partner Mainoo, Ugarte or Kone. I don’t think him and Bruno in a two work but he’s a good match for anyone else.
 
RuudTom83 said:
4 years left on his contract! that would be one hell of a transfer fee to find before Palace would even look at the fax.
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To get him I think we just have to make sure we are right back up there after two years. Then we can maybe compete for his signature.
 
macheda14 said:
To get him I think we just have to make sure we are right back up there after two years. Then we can maybe compete for his signature.
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Wharton won’t be at Palace for 2 years. The big dogs are already showing interest and they won’t want him getting better and better before moving because that means they have to pay even more to secure him.
 
Fortitude said:
Wharton won’t be at Palace for 2 years. The big dogs are already showing interest and they won’t want him getting better and better before moving because that means they have to pay even more to secure him.
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He won’t be leaving this summer. I could easily then see Palace fighting tooth and nail for one last season especially if they continue their upward trajectory under Glasner. He’ll have as much of a feck off price next season as the season after.
 
macheda14 said:
He won’t be leaving this summer. I could easily then see Palace fighting tooth and nail for one last season especially if they continue their upward trajectory under Glasner. He’ll have as much of a feck off price next season as the season after.
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Wharton’s star is rising, but it hasn’t peaked - we see glimpses of his quality and potential, but he’s not yet in that Caicedo bracket of sure thing for an astronomical price and when he gets there, you’re talking similar valuations to what were slapped on Rice and Caicedo. Until then, you’re probably in with a chance from £70m (as mentioned by @Kingslayer18 ) - to at least have Palace mull it over - so there’s still degrees to how much you will have to pay determined by when you go in. Ideally, you want that sweet spot before the true breakout season.
 
Cantona of Lagos said:
Partey has been really good for Arsenal, so not sure what you mean by this. Not being as good as him does not mean Éderson isn't good enough for Premier League. His profile is actually perfect for Premier League, because he has the athleticism, strength, tenacity and energy, probably more so than Partey who is more of a holding defensive midfielder. Ideally, he would be a better passer, but he is more than good enough and has shown it in Champions League previously. Very few midfielders in the league are metronome midfielders with exceptional passing ability, yet they are able to play at a very high level because they have a lot of other qualities, and I reckon Éderson could do the same. He could be our own Bruno Guimaraes if he keeps on developing.
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I used Partey as measurement what is the minimum level for any all round type midfielder who has physicality and can still offer something on the ball who is good enough for top club level in PL. Feel free to name me all round type midfielders who are below Partey’s level and still good enough for top club level in PL. Just to compare them with Ederson.
 
hobbers said:
Someone with a brain in the boardroom needs to put a ban on the club signing anyone from Serie A.
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I’ve made the point in here that being a powerhouse in Serie A is absolutely no proof that the same can be done in the PL. It’s a worrying metric to judge players from. We’ve been told the same thing about 3 players from there we’ve brought in: Amrabat, Højlund, Dorgu and every single one of them has struggled physically and athletically with the PL before technical level is even factored in.

You need to be a special player in Serie A to move up and thrive, methinks.
 
Fortitude said:
I’ve made the point in here that being a powerhouse in Serie A is absolutely no proof that the same can be done in the PL. It’s a worrying metric to judge players from. We’ve been told the same thing about 3 players from there we’ve brought in: Amrabat, Højlund, Dorgu and every single one of them has struggled physically and athletically with the PL before technical level is even factored in.

You need to be a special player in Serie A to move up and thrive, methinks.
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Neither Hojlund nor Dorgu looked like physical beasts in Serie A. We just had posters claiming it, but from what I saw I never saw it much for Atalanta / Lecce.
 
hobbers said:
It's fundamentally a poor league these days, which runs about half the speed of the Prem. Like you say, United fans all waxed lyrical about how powerful and athletic Amrabat, Hojlund and Dorgu were before we signed them, but in a competitive league they all look/looked like complete jokes. No physicality, brains and bodies way too slow for Premier League football.

That doesn't mean you wont find a powerful midfielder anywhere in the league, just look at Tonali. But they really are the exceptions not the rules.

Shopping in Serie A is even worse for United than other clubs because we're still over sampling for physical specimens like Hojlund, rather than players with technical ability or footballing intelligence.
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Unlike Amrabat, Højlund and Dorgu, Éderson has shown a high level in Champions League against teams like Liverpool, Arsenal, Real Madrid and Barcelona already, and I'd say that's a good indicator he would be able to do it against Brentford, Crystal Palace and Everton too. If you think Éderson is all about physicality and not technique, I advise you to look up his goal against Barcelona in the Champions League. He has very good technique and touch. He is not some tackling machine that is only good for winning the ball back that a lot of posters here seem to think.
As for Dorgu, I think people are being way too harsh on him. He is 20 years old in the most competitive league in the world. He isn't struggling physically, he is struggling with the pace of the game, like Evra did for us, initially. Give him time. He is very young and inexperienced, it doesn't mean he will be poor forever.

I agree that shopping from Serie A is risky business, and it's generally a really poor league, but watching Éderson's Champions League performances against some of the best teams in the world, I am confident that he can be a great asset for us. That being said, my dream signing would be Wharton. He is the real deal, but will probably cost an absolute fortune, which we cannot afford right now.
 
Remember the geese said:
I think Wharton will likely go for close to double what Ederson will. Ederson is a perfectly fine player, but the idea of forking out £50m for him is a bit galling when you just know that Wharton will be making a big move in the next 12 months.
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We paid 47m pounds for Fred a couple of years ago, Arsenal paid twice of that for Rice. Just saying.
 
Hammondo said:
Ederson with Mainoo or Fernandez is defensively weak, and with Mainoo also has a passing weakness. Ugarte with Mainoo has a passing weakness. Bruno and ugarte is the most balanced, but you would want to upgrade to get top 4+.
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Disagree with pretty much everything.

Ederson is strong defensively. Very diligent out of possession, energetic, aggressive and athletic. All-action double pivot player.

As I said, personally I would use him as the box to box no.8 and move Fernandes to a generally even deeper role as the midfielder tasked with primarily taking the ball off the defence - a role he has played rarely and reduces his involvement in direct goal contributions, but will give him the most freedom to get on the ball in build-up play and is a role in which he tends to outperform the rest of the team (as in instances this season and in the back-to-back games under Ten Hag).

That combination would be as balanced as Fernandes-Ugarte, and our strongest available pairing.
 
Kostov said:
We paid 47m pounds for Fred a couple of years ago, Arsenal paid twice of that for Rice. Just saying.
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Yeah missed the boat massively on Rice IF he was actually open to leaving London of course
 
He seems like a decent option for the next 5 seasons. Will cost 50m but that's what we paid for Ugarte and seems to be going rate for a developed top 6 CM.

My ideal scenario would be Ugarte, Ederson, Mateus Fernandes, Collyer and Mainoo (if he develops the physical / athletic aspects of his game). That leaves Bruno to just focus on being a #10.
 
sherrinford said:
Disagree with pretty much everything.

Ederson is strong defensively. Very diligent out of possession, energetic, aggressive and athletic. All-action double pivot player.

As I said, personally I would use him as the box to box no.8 and move Fernandes to a generally even deeper role as the midfielder tasked with primarily taking the ball off the defence - a role he has played rarely and reduces his involvement in direct goal contributions, but will give him the most freedom to get on the ball in build-up play and is a role in which he tends to outperform the rest of the team (as in instances this season and in the back-to-back games under Ten Hag).

That combination would be as balanced as Fernandes-Ugarte, and our strongest available pairing.
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I could understand the thinking of moving Bruno back if we could afford to miss his goal contributions but we definitely can't right now
 
Tallis said:
He seems like a decent option for the next 5 seasons. Will cost 50m but that's what we paid for Ugarte and seems to be going rate for a developed top 6 CM.

My ideal scenario would be Ugarte, Ederson, Mateus Fernandes, Collyer and Mainoo (if he develops the physical / athletic aspects of his game). That leaves Bruno to just focus on being a #10.
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50m for him is madness. Fred all over again. Ugarte was already playing for a top club, but even for him we massively overpaid in my opinion. Ederson shouldn't cost more than 35m. There must be players of his quality that are cheaper or at least younger.
 
aeh1991 said:
50m for him is madness. Fred all over again. Ugarte was already playing for a top club, but even for him we massively overpaid in my opinion. Ederson shouldn't cost more than 35m. There must be players of his quality that are cheaper or at least younger.
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Don't have a very strong view on Ederson tbh.

The issues will always be signing someone unproven who may have more potential. Not sure the club will take that risk at the current juncture.
 
aeh1991 said:
50m for him is madness. Fred all over again. Ugarte was already playing for a top club, but even for him we massively overpaid in my opinion. Ederson shouldn't cost more than 35m. There must be players of his quality that are cheaper or at least younger.
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Madness is a stretch no?

We have overpaid massively in the past, 80m for Maguire. 82m for Antony, 55m for Mount, 64m for Höjlund are enough to give you a stroke just by trying to process what you just read.
That is pure madness.

Ederson is a wellrounded and physical box to box cm which is an option we sorely lack right now. 50m is still certainly no steal but a far cry from madness.
 
Just watched his clips. And have to say I'm impressed. He looks very nimble, quick at short distance, good ball skill and passing, and good strength. A total upgrade on Ugarte (which I don't rate).

I don't know how his fee will impact our budget, but won't be disappointed if he's one of our "big" buy.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah missed the boat massively on Rice IF he was actually open to leaving London of course
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That's true and questionable but my point was that sometimes it's actually worth it. While Ederson at 26 of age in the summer for such a huge fee 50m+ pounds sure reeks of another questionable buy.
 
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