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Ederson | Romano : Deal done
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Ederson is at 2m a year at Atalanta, Rashford is at 19m. We aren't going to have the same trouble getting rid of Ugarte or Zirkzee who are on lower wages. Onana, Rashford, Mount, Sancho (now gone thankfully) were inherited from the previous regime.
It makes plenty of sense when you understand that teams care about the total cost of a player, not the transfer fee. Fee and wages are all bucketed together.
Imagine you think Rashford is worth £80M and Ederson is worth £55M over the next 4 years. That's the most you'll pay all in. Well, Rashford is on £325k a week, and doesn't want a paycut. Even if you can negotiate him down to £250k a week on his new deal, that's still £52M over 4 years. So that means you'll only pay up to a £28M transfer fee so you cap your total investment at £80M.
Ederson is reportedly on £40k a week at Atalanta. Let's say United offers to double him to £80k a week; that's £17M over 4 years. So you can pay up to £38M in transfer fee for him.
This is how teams actually value players btw.
All-in is what counts, and usually the lower the wages the more you'll pay in fee. Overpaid players aren't going to get much at all in transfer fees, to the point where the most overpaid you may have to pay teams to take them off your hands (bc you'd save all their wages).45m euros in total with add ons doesn't sound bad. But then you remember he's got 1 year left on his contract and it's tad annoying.
45 million euros total fee for a player with a one year contract, if I extrapolate that if he had like 3 years left on his deal, you'd look at something like 70+ million euros. Don't think he's that player.
Even on a longer contract I'd be surprised if he'd cost more than 50 million euros..
However, I'm happy we have a midfield signing and think he has the mentality and physique to do well in the PL.
Another odd situation where we could have signed him next year, especially if we are going to sign two more midfielders. Unless we are being very ambitious. But if we can’t sign a bigger target and it’s due to 15-20 million wouldn’t we look at ederson and say oh well wish we had our number one target?
This is one signing that we could have dragged out as we rarely have such good leverage. One year left on his deal and the player is set on joining us - these are the circumstances you can afford to wait until the selling club fold and lower the price.
I usually hate how slow we are generally but this is one scenario it would have made sense.
It feels like the club really wanted one through the door early and this will be the "easiest" signing we make this summer. Possibly to make us less look less desperate for other deals, possibly to make our cheapest signing first rather than our most expensive signing first, as splashing huge money early in the window might set a worse precedent.
Put it this way though, if we weren't in for this player and he went elsewhere, I very much doubt Atalanta would have got this sort of money from anyone else. He'd have probably have ended up at one of the bigger Italian clubs for €30m.
We're also a club that can't seem to handle negotiating more than one deal at a time. Every summer we spend ages chasing a player, finally get him, and only then will we make our move for the next target. It may be that yet again they've decided this needs to get done before we move onto the next, and for that reason didn't want to drag it out. It's frustrating to watch from the outside.
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find it weird how people are annoyed at securing an Ugarte replacement for 35m early June
Is he now ? That 20/21 side was frightening...
If not for the awful start to the season which was due to the non-existent vacation the players got, that team would have fought for the title.
7 points from the first 6 games - but after that we lost once in 28 games. 18 wins, 9 draws and one defeat. Goal difference of 55-22 in those 28 games. Some of the counter attacks that team had was scary
You are making some good points, but I strongly suspect Ederson will be at least on £150K, definitely not as low as £80It makes plenty of sense when you understand that teams care about the total cost of a player, not the transfer fee. Fee and wages are all bucketed together.
Imagine you think Rashford is worth £80M and Ederson is worth £55M over the next 4 years. That's the most you'll pay all in. Well, Rashford is on £325k a week, and doesn't want a paycut. Even if you can negotiate him down to £250k a week on his new deal, that's still £52M over 4 years. So that means you'll only pay up to a £28M transfer fee so you cap your total investment at £80M.
Ederson is reportedly on £40k a week at Atalanta. Let's say United offers to double him to £80k a week; that's £17M over 4 years. So you can pay up to £38M in transfer fee for him.
This is how teams actually value players btw.
What a great deal for a player with a wealth of Champions League experience.
Good to see we are starting early and not hanging around, obviously helps he's not at the world cup, but even so this shows promising things for another good transfer window.
Good to see we are starting early and not hanging around, obviously helps he's not at the world cup, but even so this shows promising things for another good transfer window.
I mean, you can't just take out the results you don't like.
The narrative around that season has been revised a lot over the years I feel. The way I remember it felt like Ole's job was under pressure until December, partly because we couldn't make it out the CL group stage and partly because we were outside the top 4. A run of 5 wins in 6 in the league from December to January somehow put us top the league. But immediately the form fell off, over the course of a few weeks we had 3 wins from 10 games, which gifted City the title and we were never in the race once they opened up that gap. We finished with a respectable top 4 finish on an unspectacular 74 points, a points total that is never going to be anywhere close to winning the league. A points total that has been bettered by Mourinho and Ten Hag.
It speaks volume how bad we've been for 13 years that a 74 point team who couldn't make it out the CL group stage gets looked back on so fondly.
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Good to see us actually doing business early for a change.
I am afraid he is a mediocre at the best and not suited for EPL
Would you feel better if we paid more for the same level of player who has more years left on his contract?
With Casemiro and Ugarte going, We needed to sign 3 midfielders that can contribute at a high level and we managed to get one of them for £34m. That's all that matters.
What makes him unsuited to the EPL in your view?
People decided they didn't want him even before he signed and will go and die on that hill. Even if he does well, he'll make one mistake and they'll be out with the "I told you so, waste of money, INEOS clueless"
It's kinda weird really.
Happy with the signing of Ederson. He will be a good addition to our midfield, only if he's the 3rd option behind Mainoo and another one.
He has the physicality, but especially the hunger to play.
I am fedup with peak players coming here and can't adjust. He will have everything to prove, will have to fight fot his position.
He has also a greater Europe experience than a lot of our team (played CL last two season, won the EL 3 years ago)
Anyway, I am looking forward to see who will be the 3rd midfielder (Fernandes for 50-60M€ now way for me)
He has the physicality, but especially the hunger to play.
I am fedup with peak players coming here and can't adjust. He will have everything to prove, will have to fight fot his position.
He has also a greater Europe experience than a lot of our team (played CL last two season, won the EL 3 years ago)
Anyway, I am looking forward to see who will be the 3rd midfielder (Fernandes for 50-60M€ now way for me)
We are losing Cas as well. We should be annoyed if the player seems technically suspect.
I said this last week, I am still unconvinced on Ederson as a starter, also not sure if he is an improvement on Ugarte but hopefully he is better, I think we still need to sign 2 new midfielders that can slot into the starting lineup behind Bruno (one of them is a competition for Mainoo), that way we have 4 covering 2 spots.
This is a very smart signing. He is very fast and covers a lot of ground. I suspect he will be playing a lot. We need someone in the middle of the park to work tirelessly.
Seems a much better deal than Mason Mount who had one year left.
Really hoping lessons were learnt after that.
I've never once seen Ederson play but I can confidently claim he's going to fail, based on an AI generated 1 line summary of this thread.
Did they not ask for a repeat buyer discount after Højlund?
The point would still stand at £150k. But I'd be surprised if it's that high. That's around what Sesko, Mbeumo, and Cunha got. If he's a squad player, I suspect £80k - 100k.
But it’s not been suggested in any way shape or form that this is the only midfield singing?
Agreed, it's basically a fire sale for Rashford. Everyone knows we're paying a fortune for player we don't want and has no future at the club. There's no comparison at all and it's a bit of a ridiculous post that you've replied to.
I would feel better if we got priorities over the line first.
I would feel better if we courted some players then signed them on a free.
I do see how the midfield is dire but still wish priorities were signed. Seems like clubs like to drag us out but people still believe he is 3rd choice. He could become first choice if we don’t do the other two deals
If he's being brought in to add depth and quality to our squad then great.
We've had mixed fortunes with Brazilian midfielders but hopefully this proves to be the exception to the rule.
We've had mixed fortunes with Brazilian midfielders but hopefully this proves to be the exception to the rule.
Can anyone say why this would be finished in July? Can't remember if other signings have already finalised by the way.
I see him as similar to Herrera and Fred. Neither would spray long passes about, but they'd work hard, get about the pitch, and we're able to pass safely. I don't think he'll have the same level of brainfarts as Fred thankfully. He's also slightly stronger and taller than both, but not some physical specimen that is going to bully the league.
All in all I think he'll be a decent floor raising signing that means it's not panic stations if we suffer an injury or need to rotate players.
All in all I think he'll be a decent floor raising signing that means it's not panic stations if we suffer an injury or need to rotate players.
The July thing seems odd to me too. Why not just get it done? I know there's a world cup coming up but we've signed players before world cups. Remember Jaap Stam in 98?
Solid signing, reasonable price, brings experience, he's a good age, he'll bring a lot of energy and isn't likely to be one of main starters. Is he the best CM around, no, that's why we're paying £35million. As long as we get another couple in midfield (assuming Ugarte leaves), he's a good start to our business this window.
I love this deal
I suppose one thing to consider - I understand the finances aren’t as simple as this but the fee we’ve received for Hojlund is pretty much what we’ve paid for Ederson. Not really a dent into the transfer kitty yet.
Reading through the Athletic articles and had no idea Murtough is at Atalanta.
I think we have slightly overpaid for someone in the last year of their contract but not by much.
Have never see him play so will reserve judgement for once he starts in the PL.
I think we have slightly overpaid for someone in the last year of their contract but not by much.
Have never see him play so will reserve judgement for once he starts in the PL.
Pretty sure the figure I've seen reported it £28/29m for Ugarte, we have a limited market due to his wages.
A useful buy, and one that should help us somewhat with negotiations elsewhere, since we're immediately a little less desperate for players. At that price, will barely affect our transfer budget for other players.
the fact that he comes from a much weaker league with much lower speeds, and this is not compensated by his technique, unfortunately
Came to say the same. Early deal in a position we desperately need bodies for a reasonable price. Beautiful to see