I admire the endurance of some posters in here. Let the guy be wrong, he clearly can't be helped.
21
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 39
- Goals
- 17
- Assists
- 5
- Yellow cards
- 6
- Status
If Cavani had been fit and available all season, without any stupid suspensions etc, I think he'd of hit close to 30 goals. He's only really in the last few months gotten regular games and been available for selection.
But it wasn't exactly a dummy was it? Fernandes tried a fancy flick with his heel and he missed it by the tiniest of margins, so small that can you hardly tell on a slow mo replay. How can a defender, linesman and referee not deem that as intentionally playing the ball?
Without VAR that would never ever be cancelled.
I suppose what i'm getting at is it really doesn't matter that he missed it by accident as he fully intended to flick the ball? he even thought himself he touched it.
Maybe the law needs rewriting and modernising now with VAR in mind.
Agreed here, I think it’s an extremely difficult one to rule out so it was the correct decision.
But if he didn’t touch it, and that was clear, then it would be ruled out according to current rules.
Maybe intentional dummies should be more recognised? there's a big difference to stepping out the way of a ball or purposely letting it run through your legs.
What do you think of the move Suarez loves to pull off? He runs towards the ball then dummies over it and chases after it leaving the defender for dead.
You could say he hasn't touched the ball and thus 'not played it' but for me any intentional action on the pitch with the ball is a play.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/edinson-cavani/leistungsdaten/spieler/48280
https://www.premierleague.com/tables?co=1&se=363&ha=-1
I compared both premier league and transfermarkt data. We were deffo 2nd by week 16. By week 30 Cavani had scored a measly 6 league goals. One was the final second in our 3-1 win over Everton, another was in the 9-0, 3-3 draw with Everton, 2-2 draw with Leicester. he had barely won us any games/points.
his 1st Europa goal was vs Granada in the 2nd leg quarter final. didn't score in FA cup. The form has been April which is at the "right time" for most people as its the business end but doesn't negate that we have been fine without him for most of the season. from late November to early April he scored 3 league goals for us.
Basically like Rashford since January so? I think it’s also 4 in the league in the last 5 months. I feel like a whole season fit and with service even this old version of Cavani would be on 15-20 league goals no bother plus the leadership and massive upgrade in workrate he brings. We are a better side with him in it. Similar league output to Rashford in much less games
Last edited:
Didn’t he also almost single handedly win us the game against Southampton earlier in the season?
Just looking at the link you provided he also scored the equaliser against Fulham earlier in the season and the 2-1 against Spurs when we won 3-1 in the end.
As I said some crucial goals/assists and that is not even taking into account his work rate and pressing, etc.
yeah and the Spurs and Fulham games. He’s done a lot for us for a free player supposedly on the way down vs our young stars on the way up. Food for thought.
Seriously mate, you are having a mare.
Intent is only relevant to the guy who actually is offside.
His offside status is determined by his position when the last contact with the ball was made.
For what it's worth, I do think Bruno made minimal contact. In any case, nobody can conclusively prove there was no contact and, when in doubt, attacking side gets the advantage/benefit of the doubt. Simple.
The case on Europa Final is straight forward: 4 goals and 3 assists in an 8-5 aggregate win.
Cavani League Goals and Assists
Everton (A) - 1:3 - 1G, third goal - 0 points
Southampton (A) - 2:3 - 2G+1A - 3 points
Leicester (A) - 2:2 - 1A - 1 point
Fulham (A) - 1:2 - 1G - 2 points
Southampton (H) - 9:0 - 1G - 0 points
Everton (H) - 3:3 - 1G - 1 point (still miffed we threw that one away)
Spurs (A) - 1:3 - 1G, second goal - 2 points
Burnley (H) - 3:1 - 1G, third goal - 0 points
Aston Villa (A) - 1:3 - 1G, third goal - 0 points
Liverpool (H) - 2:4 - 1A - 0 points
Fulham (H) - 1:1 - 1G - 1 point
10 points, we would be 6th. Obviously, someone else would play. Ignoring jadedness for less rotation or Martial actually being injured now or suspended after the Spurs red card, if you run the exact same thing for him and adjust for minutes played Martial gets 6.4 points.
We would be 5th on 65 with Liverpool breathing down our necks on 63 -with a game in hand- and with CL qualification contingent on both Leicester and Liverpool not winning their remaining games and us winning ours.
No thank you. I dread to think about it indeed.
Edit: Actually, Leicester would actually have two more points and we would be out of the CL regardless, with no scope for qualification via EL. Top season that.
Yeah I gave up a few hours ago, if someone wants to blindly argue about something subjective it is one thing but this is ludicrous.
Fcuking bell, I’m a belligerent oaf at times, but these past two pages have been next level
What a goal that was. The audacity to try chipping the keeper from 40 yards (?) and having the skill to pull it off is something to be admired. Absolutely insane piece of skill made it look so easy.
Thanks. Yep as I thought his contributions have been outstanding in most of the games he has played.
Would be good if someone could do the G+A breakdown with points won you just did here for Rashford, Bruno and Greenwood as well.
I am too lazy to do it!
It has been a difficult season for attacking players. I already knew this but it just underlined it even more when I read yesterday that pen taker Jorginho is Chelsea’s top scorer with 7 goals - and this despite the million attacking players they have.
football doesn't work like that lad. We have no idea if Rashford or greenwood would play CF. We may have won all those games. Martial may have hit form who knows. We we 2nd before Cavani played much over much more games and 2nd after. That's what is definite. no speculation. To think we wouldn't be able to get those points without him on the pitch ignores majority of the season where we actually did it mostly without his goals.
EDIT: when I look at points earned we normally look at games you won. e.g. if you scored the 2nd goal in a 2-1 win. If Magurie scores the first goal in a 3-3 draw has he earned us the point or was it the player who scored the defining goal (e.g. equaliser?)
Last edited:
Yes he has a great games/minutes ratio yet we spent most of the league season approx 30 games, without regular goals from him. and managed to be in 2nd still as I said. He had scored in 5 games within the first 30 premier league games of the season so we got his contribution (goalwise) in 16% of our league campaign until recently, whereas Kane has scored in nearly 50% of Spurs league games, so we have had other ways to get goals/win games. Jorginho top scorer is crazy.
Quality post. Cheers. I knew it. Our attack has been going off the boil and we were struggling badly at times without him. Greenwood and Pogba have hit form around him too. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. He invites players to create for him and he fights for everything you give to him. He hasn’t been brilliant in every game but you have to allow for that with any player in their first season at a new club and coming off an injury, no preseason etc. He’s been class. If he’d played in more games he’d have scored more goals. Simple as.
Don't patronise me with that lad shit. It's a simple and sensible way to gage effectiveness/contribution.
The same way you say "We were 2nd and stayed 2nd, Martial may have hit form, yadda yadda" I can tell you actual facts:
1. Martial has been out, so has James. We would have had to rely on Amad or Shoretire.
2. Rashford has been off for months, understandably burnt out.
3. Cavani has hit form exactly when we most needed it as others were jaded or injured (bar Mason, who has also turned his season around in the second half of the season).
4. The entire point of signing Cavani was having depth so as to be able to rotate and SUSTAIN form. Same reason SAF used to have four credible strikers in the mix for the two spots upfront.
No, we wouldn't be 2nd without Cavani, absolutely no chance.
Both earn a point as without either goal we wouldn't get a point. It is only the third in a 3-1 or, say, 4th in a 9-0 which I ignore.
It adds up to more than 71 across all players, I know. Who cares? It's about gaging individual contributions, not assigning 3 or 1 point per game to one single player. It's not a MotM award. Call them "clutch/point-scoring contributions" not "game-winning".
Aye, that's where you get into "how football actually works", but it's bound to be far more opinion-based.
Earlier in the season they clearly hadn't clicked and it was all a bit of a mess.
Now, I'm not saying we are hopeless without him, we'd better not as there's a lot of games in a season and different kinds of games. For example, the way we played and sat back against Liverpool I'd much rather have had Martial-Rashford-Greenwood upfront and Pogba deeper to provide an outball.
That's what Ole needs to work out, how to use and rotate his (available) resources for maximum impact and sustained top form.
Good 'almost-assist' to Greenwood also.
hitting peak form right now.
wrap him up in cotton wool till the final
wrap him up in cotton wool till the final
I agree with some of this based off the injuries and adding squad depth etc, he has come in and helped us "maintain" our position whilst others have been injured. We would not have to play Amad and Shoretire as they should be behind Mata and VBD. I can't say we would definitely not be in 2nd as we already were coping without frequent goal contributions when neither Cavani nor Rashford nor Greenwood nor Martial (our entire attack) were scoring regularly over large periods of 3-4 months as others have shown they step up can win us games + Greenwood seems to have hit form now so we have actually proven we can. We can argue we wouldn't be in 2nd without any of our high minute players including Martial as they all contribute. its their job as part of the squad but then we never know.
"Clutch" loving the American terminology btw
Am I imagining it or has Cavani played as a wide attacked fairly often? Would he be an occasional option on the right if we sign someone like Danny Ings to play in the centre?
If I'm not mistaken he was cast out wide during periods for PSG to cater for Mbappe and Neymar, and was still very productive.
Throw Cavani, after we finally get a true striker, to the right to accommodate Danny Ings. Ant that's not even taking Greenwood into account. No, thanks.
Pornographic
Right!! Don't even want to see Danny Ings at United, let alone shifting Cavani wide, and dropping Greenwood.
Of course, even Martial as the games he got us points in Cavani was not in form or not available. I'm not going to entertain what Ighalo may have done instead, if Martial got us 7 points in his minutes my gut says Ighalo would have got us 2 or 3 at best (not that he would have been available in all those games anyway) and Chelsea would be second. You could say James if you want, although sometimes he was alongside him on the pitch already. Probably same outcome.
Didn't know clutch was an American term, actually picked it up on here and it's an apt and succint term for what I'm getting at when assigning points "based on both goals and assists which are difference makers in a final result".
Did it out of curiosity as I do actually think it's a sensible way to gage relative contributions. More so when giving points when a goal/assist makes a difference to a result and not when it's just the 9th goal in a 9-0. I don't care for that, we've spent much of the season coming back from behind so it's definitely worthwhile to differentiate those equalising/winning goals from "cherry on the cake" goals once the oppo commits forward to try get back in the game.
Both from a total contribution point of view and adjusting for minutes played (relative to Cavani's as I had done for Martial) it presents a fairly accurate picture of their relative importance and contribution to our season:
1. Bruno - 31 in 3108m - 13.6
2. Rashford - 23 in 2924m - 10.7
3. Pogba - 14 in 1896m - 10.1
4. Cavani - 10 in 1366m - 10
5. Greenwood - 10 in 1824m - 7.5
6. Martial - 7 in 1487m - 6.4
7. James - 2 in 822m - 3.3
Caveats:
1. Despite adjusting for playing time, we can't underestimate the importance of Bruno's and Rashford's continuous availability which really sets them apart in that top 2.
2. Greenwood really suffers from loads of additional minutes in a very poor first half of the season, his second half form would likely place him in top 3, which is what I expect from him next season.
3. James gets a bit run down by the point system as he is often thrown in to rest players in a won game. That doesn't add up to much overall though relative to games he actually started and it's not particularly harsh to say he is half the player Martial is.
4. Thinking about best XI I often get to the conclusion we want Rashford-Cavani-Greenwood upfront with Pogba-Bruno behind them and a young Matic behind them (still don't get how we didn't sign Fabinho). We can put the fear of god into any defence, no question. That said, when you think full season and factor in injuries, need for rotation, etc. it's obvious we can't rely on that as the lack of depth and drop in quality is staggering. Only Martial works well as a regular rotation option, love Mata but he is well past it, DVB is a misfit, etc. All in all, inclined to agree with those banging on about Grealish.
Great work, thanks!
Yeah that’s also how I mostly remember it.
Rashford won us important points mainly in the first half of the season.
Bruno mainly in the first 2/3 of the season.
Pogba, Cavani and Greenwood mainly in the 2nd half of the season.
With Cavani and Pogba out for around 3 months each (injured/ban/covid/joining late/quarantine) and Greenwood basically non existent in the first half (and Martial basically non existent whole season), Bruno and Rashford were our most reliable attacking performers.
We definitely need more attacking quality.
*Jadon Sancho has entered the chat*
Hey, he's our Pele. #TheGlazerThat'sGoingToMeetTheFans #250k
Some parallels here..
First European silverware for Edinson come Wednesday night much like it was back in 2017 for Zlatan. Let's hope so. He deserves it
Expect him to be bang up for this.
First European silverware for Edinson come Wednesday night much like it was back in 2017 for Zlatan. Let's hope so. He deserves it
Expect him to be bang up for this.
We definitely won’t be in a Final or 2nd in the league without Cavani. Hope he goes all the way and clinches it for us!
Villareal 1:1 Man Utd
My MOTM, led from the front, made some big tackles and pounced on his one chance and bagged
Hes 34. He got an important goal tonight. He ran his heart out.
No blame goes to him today. We need some big changes this summer and some proper investment. Otherwise it's another year of mediocracy.
No blame goes to him today. We need some big changes this summer and some proper investment. Otherwise it's another year of mediocracy.
Deserved to be on the winning side. I hope he doesn’t lose heart over what he had to play with tonight.
Not much he could do, great instincts for the goal but our service was mediocre/bad all game. Games like today are where you'd like to have Martial back or another striker who could tuck in and play off of him in the middle. Might have been worth chucking VdB on instead of that god awful Fred sub
- Status