Edwin van der Sar on United

edcunited1878

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  • United are missing strong characters (personnel) - cites Giggs, Scholes, Rio, Nevile, Keane
  • Avoids question about Ole being the correct manager, but then says the club is still an attractive brand/club for all players
  • Improve on the squad and have a path/road to trophies
  • When things aren't going well, you have to look at the gaps and opportunities (to improve)
  • VDS would sign Andre Onana over any GK if he was starting his own club
 

Mainoldo

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  • United are missing strong characters (personnel) - cites Giggs, Scholes, Rio, Nevile, Keane
  • Avoids question about Ole being the correct manager, but then says the club is still an attractive brand/club for all players
  • Improve on the squad and have a path/road to trophies
  • When things aren't going well, you have to look at the gaps and opportunities (to improve)
  • VDS would sign Andre Onana over any GK if he was starting his own club
Bring VDS back.
 

momo83

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  • United are missing strong characters (personnel) - cites Giggs, Scholes, Rio, Nevile, Keane
  • Avoids question about Ole being the correct manager, but then says the club is still an attractive brand/club for all players
  • Improve on the squad and have a path/road to trophies
  • When things aren't going well, you have to look at the gaps and opportunities (to improve)
  • VDS would sign Andre Onana over any GK if he was starting his own club
First goalkeeper he mentioned as best keeper was De Gea. Keeper he’d sign was Onana and he said it diplomatically as that’s Ajax keeper so he wanted to praise him.
 

Rozay

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Does anyone have a clue about what VdS’ role at Ajax involves, and why he is seen (on Redcafe) as a good CEO as opposed to a not so good one? Please enlighten me. Is it because the Ajax football team play good, pass and move football (as they pretty much always have)?
 

momo83

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Does anyone have a clue about what VdS’ role at Ajax involves, and why he is seen (on Redcafe) as a good CEO as opposed to a not so good one? Please enlighten me. Is it because the Ajax football team play good, pass and move football (as they pretty much always have)?
I think it’s more because he’s earned it. He went to University and got a degree, then got a job with Ajax, then got promoted to CEO. During his time they’ve also become a decent European team again, reaching Europe League Final, and Champions League Semi.

But what’s been proven is that our fans have no patience for pass and move football nor the appreciation for the type of players required to implement it
 

GaryLifo

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Utd lacks strong characters. Yeah no shit sherlock.
So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
 

SirAF

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

Rozay

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I think it’s more because he’s earned it. He went to University and got a degree, then got a job with Ajax, then got promoted to CEO. During his time they’ve also become a decent European team again, reaching Europe League Final, and Champions League Semi.

But what’s been proven is that our fans have no patience for pass and move football nor the appreciation for the type of players required to implement it
This is what I think. I guess it’s a new football time we are in. Traditionally, I would have thought those achievements are seen as ‘during manager x’s time’, as opposed to during the CEO, kitman, physio or chief accountant’s time. Like, he’s a Chief Executive Officer. Ajax came across a golden generation of young talent and did well. Fair play. Not sure how that makes VDS so in demand now.

Who was their CEO in 1995? I mean, rightfully, to me anyway, LVG who managed the football team got plaudits and suitors after winning the CL. Nobody cared about the CEO.
 

lon ball2

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
That guy belongs on our board if he thinks the right answers are too obvious
 

ArjenIsM3

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
A good thing to teach your kids about. Fool the teacher, 200 IQ.
 

ottosec

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The team character starts with the manager. Scholes, Giggs, or Neville learned it from Ferguson, they were hardly Robsons or Keanes when they started.

It's the manager's job to motivate and give confidence to the players. Or at the very least to prepare them well enough so that they won't feel lost on the pitch.

How many times did one of our former players came out and said that they felt like they were already 1-0 up before they started games under Fergie?
 

12OunceEpilogue

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
I suppose the frustration is that very few influential people outside the club are prepared to blast Woodward and the Glazers, the feeling being if there were a groundswell of respected football people pelting slime at at our executives and their personal reputations take a hit they may be moved finally to act in the interests of the club.

Saying that VDS gives a very fair and accurate answer as a football man as you say. Lacking authority and know-how on the pitch, and in the dugout though the likes of VDS are too diplomatic to point it out, is a key deficiency for us at the moment.
 

DRM

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Very well spoken. Man, we really were spoilt back then with so much talent in the squad, I appreciate those days a lot more now.
 

GaryLifo

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I suppose the frustration is that very few influential people outside the club are prepared to blast Woodward and the Glazers, the feeling being if there were a groundswell of respected football people pelting slime at at our executives and their personal reputations take a hit they may be moved finally to act in the interests of the club.

Saying that VDS gives a very fair and accurate answer as a football man as you say. Lacking authority and know-how on the pitch, and in the dugout though the likes of VDS are too diplomatic to point it out, is a key deficiency for us at the moment.
Exactly. And given VdS has been rumoured to be a candidate for a DoF role at United, if he does have any ambitions in that direction, saying 'Ed Woodward is about as useful as the average redcafe poster' isn't going to further those ambitions.

If you dig into what he's said, he is indirectly criticising those responsible for recruitment, but it's diplomatic enough to be equally dismissed as not being criticism.
 

Strats

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

Vault Dweller

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

12OunceEpilogue

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Exactly. And given VdS has been rumoured to be a candidate for a DoF role at United, if he does have any ambitions in that direction, saying 'Ed Woodward is about as useful as the average redcafe poster' isn't going to further those ambitions.

If you dig into what he's said, he is indirectly criticising those responsible for recruitment, but it's diplomatic enough to be equally dismissed as not being criticism.
Agreed, but wouldn't that be nice to hear? All our grandees should quit ambassadorial roles, stuff with MUTV etc. and turn en masse on the Glazers to tell them what they really think of them. If they want to use caf posters in any unflattering comparisons that's up to them.
 

Sandikan

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All we're really lacking is the right management and the right players.

Simples.
 

devilish

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I think someone is eyeing Woodward's job.
 

Subho611

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

roonster09

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol: Well played.
 

Based Adnan

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Who are the senior figures in this team? Young? Mata? Jones? De Gea? None of them scream leadership.

A far cry from the days where we had tens of international captains in the same team.
 

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So it would be better for VDS to point out something less obvious then, is this what you are saying?

Bizarre post. Man asked question about what is wrong with United, provides perfectly acceptable answer, but internet person derides the answer as being too obvious. Presumably then if I'm ever asked what is 5+5 in a maths test, I should avoid answering 10 in case I am accused of being too obvious.
:lol:
 

AneRu

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I think he has said enough and he was always going to be careful wrt what he said in an interview. He'd be an obvious candidate to replace Woodward one day, a fact which he is obviously aware of, so he wouldn't want to burn bridges by directly attacking Woodward and people within the club.
 

momo83

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This is what I think. I guess it’s a new football time we are in. Traditionally, I would have thought those achievements are seen as ‘during manager x’s time’, as opposed to during the CEO, kitman, physio or chief accountant’s time. Like, he’s a Chief Executive Officer. Ajax came across a golden generation of young talent and did well. Fair play. Not sure how that makes VDS so in demand now.

Who was their CEO in 1995? I mean, rightfully, to me anyway, LVG who managed the football team got plaudits and suitors after winning the CL. Nobody cared about the CEO.
Think it’s mostly just our fanbase because we blame Ed. Look at how much we’ve spent over last 6 years most manager’s would love that budget and autonomy,
 

red thru&thru

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This is what I think. I guess it’s a new football time we are in. Traditionally, I would have thought those achievements are seen as ‘during manager x’s time’, as opposed to during the CEO, kitman, physio or chief accountant’s time. Like, he’s a Chief Executive Officer. Ajax came across a golden generation of young talent and did well. Fair play. Not sure how that makes VDS so in demand now.

Who was their CEO in 1995? I mean, rightfully, to me anyway, LVG who managed the football team got plaudits and suitors after winning the CL. Nobody cared about the CEO.
EVERYONE cares about the CEO. CEO (generally) is tasked with the running of the company. It is their responsibility to run the company/organisation successfully. Edwin has shown himself in doing this with Ajax, Ed Woodward hasn't.
 

AneRu

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This is what I think. I guess it’s a new football time we are in. Traditionally, I would have thought those achievements are seen as ‘during manager x’s time’, as opposed to during the CEO, kitman, physio or chief accountant’s time. Like, he’s a Chief Executive Officer. Ajax came across a golden generation of young talent and did well. Fair play. Not sure how that makes VDS so in demand now.

Who was their CEO in 1995? I mean, rightfully, to me anyway, LVG who managed the football team got plaudits and suitors after winning the CL. Nobody cared about the CEO.
I think it's more us than anyone else because we have massively underachieved over a period where we spent heavily and had a couple of top managers come in. The inquisition as to why we find ourselves in this situation and Woodward's prominence highlights the damage an inept CEO can do to a club.
 

Rozay

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Think it’s mostly just our fanbase because we blame Ed. Look at how much we’ve spent over last 6 years most manager’s would love that budget and autonomy,
I think the fans just need to blame someone. Once Ed leaves and we move on to a new exec, the focus will probably be on another area of the business, so long as we don’t win enough games.

At best, I’d say we can take a simplistic view of ‘our managers haven’t won/done enough for us, so let’s look at the man who hires the manager’. Think it’s a bit of a stretch, but fair enough, I can understand that view. But beyond that, it just starts to look like a blindfolded blame game to me.

People love to have a go at United apparently being focused on non-football related issues, or that we are so preoccupied with sponsors or what have you, but I think there’s something of a hypocrisy in that all disappointment at the football team always seems to be directed at non-footballing sides of the business. You can rest assured that when the team begins performing to it’s potential again, it will be the fault of a football manager, and not a suit.
 

Rozay

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I think it's more us than anyone else because we have massively underachieved over a period where we spent heavily and had a couple of top managers come in. The inquisition as to why we find ourselves in this situation and Woodward's prominence highlights the damage an inept CEO can do to a club.
It’s a bit of an oxymoron to me though. You have just said ‘we spent heavily and hired a couple of top managers’. It’s over to them now. What more would people who want Ole out want Woodward to do other than hire a top manager and give him money? If we got Pep or Klopp in (which I believe to varying degrees, we had tried to in recent years), and given them money to spend, and we finish 6th, why is that a failing of the board? Unless you want Ed down at Carrington telling the players to run more or work on patterns of play, it’s in the hands of the manager.
 

Rozay

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EVERYONE cares about the CEO. CEO (generally) is tasked with the running of the company. It is their responsibility to run the company/organisation successfully. Edwin has shown himself in doing this with Ajax, Ed Woodward hasn't.
No,they don’t. The praise for the two best sides in our league unanimously starts and ends with their managers.

Then you have Mike Ashley at Newcastle who attracts criticism for his team’s performances specifically because he does not invest, and Ed Woodward who attracts criticism for his team’s performances for reasons that people who cannot articulate with any real rationale I don’t think. More a hope of if something changes, then the team might change.
 

AneRu

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It’s a bit of an oxymoron to me though. You have just said ‘we spent heavily and hired a couple of top managers’. It’s over to them now. What more would people who want Ole out want Woodward to do other than hire a top manager and give him money? If we got Pep or Klopp in (which I believe to varying degrees, we had tried to in recent years), and given them money to spend, and we finish 6th, why is that a failing of the board? Unless you want Ed down at Carrington telling the players to run more or work on patterns of play, it’s in the hands of the manager.
But for a manager to succeed or fail he requires support in the transfer market not just about spending x amount of pounds on players but how many first choice targets can the CEO successfully sign, LVG complained that some of the players he got weren't exactly his first choices and whilst that's possible due to varying factors involved in concluding a transfer it is also a factor that can lead to success or failure of a manager. Almost every ex manager in the Woodward era has misgivings about Woodward and indeed he is the only constant in four failed managerial regimes.
 

Rozay

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But for a manager to succeed or fail he requires support in the transfer market not just about spending x amount of pounds on players but how many first choice targets can the CEO successfully sign, LVG complained that some of the players he got weren't exactly his first choices and whilst that's possible due to varying factors involved in concluding a transfer it is also a factor that can lead to success or failure of a manager. Almost every ex manager in the Woodward era has misgivings about Woodward and indeed he is the only constant in four failed managerial regimes.
That’s ridiculous. No exec goes into the market trying to hamstring his manager. The proof is in the pudding of the financials. If, despite what we have spent on fees and wages, we have not always secured the manager’s #1 target, what else can be done? If the player doesn’t want to come then he doesn’t want to come.

Taking Mourinho as the first example, the boat was pushed out for him. Ed broke the world record for him in his first window, and there is nothing to suggest that Bailly, Pogba, Mkhitaryan and Zlatan were not his first choices. In fact, I’m sure he’s even said they were. He then went o to finish 6th. He usually finishes a lot higher when given what he needs. So I can’t see how that’s anyone’s fault but the manager.

Most of the players JM signed got a full pre-season. The exceptions being Pogba, as the deal took time, Dalot, as he was injured and Matic, who was signed late. The timing of the signings suggest they were first choice to me. And even then, what if his first choice was Messi? You don’t always get what you want. The money spent indicates that that isn’t the result of us not wanting to spend any money.

You mentioned Van Gaal. He was backed massively in his first window. Woodward also broke the PL record for him. He was given Falcao. We broke the record for a teenager in Shaw. He couldn’t get a tune out of Di Maria, his record signing. That’s his fault.
 

red thru&thru

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No,they don’t. The praise for the two best sides in our league unanimously starts and ends with their managers.

Then you have Mike Ashley at Newcastle who attracts criticism for his team’s performances specifically because he does not invest, and Ed Woodward who attracts criticism for his team’s performances for reasons that people who cannot articulate with any real rationale I don’t think. More a hope of if something changes, then the team might change.
So what you saying is, the manager is more important than the manager?
 

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Does anyone have a clue about what VdS’ role at Ajax involves, and why he is seen (on Redcafe) as a good CEO as opposed to a not so good one? Please enlighten me. Is it because the Ajax football team play good, pass and move football (as they pretty much always have)?
He is the CEO. Ajax was in crisis for years, our football was terrible, we had financial problems and there were troubles in the board. Overmars and VdS steadied the ship, made the club financially healthy again and brought the club back to where it is. If you can that we've pretty much always played good football, I guess you haven't been watching Ajax over the last decade. We've been eliminated out of European league by the likes of Rostov, Rosenborg, Slavia Praha etc. So things haven't always been good and I believe most Ajax fans still need to pinch themselves how things are going lately. So I believe VdS and Overmars both deserve to get praised for where Ajax is at the moment. The most important thing imo, is they brought the club philosophy back. Every manager they appointed plays the style-of-play that fits Ajax and the players. So the players don't need to switch their style with every new manager (something that seems to be the case at Man United in the last couple of years).