Eight Brazilian players might be ineligible to play this weekend

[antohan]

Maybe FIFA should pay the players salaries and their insurance costs? What kind of jurisdiction even allows shit like this, where some third-party gets to decide the future of people who are not its' employee?

It's FIFA mate. As I mentioned the other day, they once got the Brazilian government to show up with the federal police at the Uruguay camp and deport Suarez because he bit a rival player. They didn't just suspend him and ban him from stadiums (???) and being present at the Uruguay training camp (????), they actually got him kicked out of the country altogether. In what planet that makes any sense?

They are used to having their way, and in this context it was bound to happen that the (different) Brazilian authorities would find a very public way to put their foot down and shaft them 5 mins into a much anticipated globally-viewed fixture.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I reckon if we don't even make the effort then we deserve not having him available for two months in October/November. Instead we just drone about employers and money. There's absolutely no reason Cavani should be quarantining if he only plays home games. Before you say it, "how about the rival players?", what's the plan for the CL/Europa then since no one else in Europe is following the same rule?

Which takes you back to the entire thing being completely bonkers when it comes to football and having to trust the clubs themselves will take adequate measures to protect their assets from outbreaks.

As it is, everyone just followed the lazy route of "feck internationals outside Europe". As expected, Brazil (at all levels) is taking the stance of "nobody fecks with me without consequences". You could see it coming a mile away.

Look man, in theory I have no problem with what you are saying. But we live in a different reality if you believe any of that is actually going to happen. Of course we are going to talk about money, do you understand how much a top player costs in terms of wages for 2-3 weeks? Why should the football clubs bear the financial burden of this when they are forced to lose their players in such circumstances?

I don't know if players get payed during international breaks, but if they do, FIFA, UEFA or the domestic FA should be covering the costs of that instead of the clubs. Or players shouldn't be payed by their clubs during those fixtures at all, regardless of what the situation with the pandemic is. The frustration from football clubs is perfectly understandable, especially the very top ones, who commit so much time and resources to make sure their teams are challenging for the biggest trophies, where the smallest detail can make you lose the chance of winning.

 

[antohan]

Football and double standards, such a joke. Fifa won't prevent Hungary from having fans as the ban is from EUFA but will happily suspend players from domestic games because of a pandemic and logistical issues, fecking idiots.

One is within a Confederation, in their competition, the other case is cross-Confederation. No double standard, the latter is FIFA's job to sort out, the former isn't.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Given that it’s Liverpool most affected I’m sure something will be sorted.

 

[antohan]

I am not sure what is covered under FIFA but a quick google search shows FIFA as regulators at the Olympics for football, not entirely sure though.

The second article explains why Salah didn't go, it seems he wanted to represent Egypt but was blocked, surprisingly even Konate was chosen but was not allowed.

It just seems strange that Egypt would not try their hardest to get their best player, whereas the Brazilians were not allowed due to Brazil being on the red list.

https://olympics.com/ioc/international-association-football-federation

https://www.si.com/soccer/liverpool/news/egypt-coach-responds-to-liverpool-denying-salah

Egypt likely prioritises preserving good terms with Salah and his club. Brazil play a longer game.

 

[11101]

Surely the Premier League can tell them to sod off, let's see FIFA and UEFA penalise the biggest cash cow in world football. Newspapers seem to suggest this may happen and clubs also have the backing of the European Club Association to ignore the ban.

 

[antohan]

Look man, in theory I have no problem with what you are saying. But we live in a different reality if you believe any of that is actually going to happen. Of course we are going to talk about money, do you understand how much a top player costs in terms of wages for 2-3 weeks? Why should the football clubs bear the financial burden of this when they are forced to lose their players in such circumstances?

I don't know if players get payed during international breaks, but if they do, FIFA, UEFA or the domestic FA should be covering the costs of that instead of the clubs. Or players shouldn't be payed by their clubs during those fixtures at all, regardless of what the situation with the pandemic is. The frustration from football clubs is perfectly understandable, especially the very top ones, who commit so much time and resources to make sure their teams are challenging for the biggest trophies, where the smallest detail can make you lose the chance of winning.

The issue is the same as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, there's just more money at stake now and the exceptional circumstance of quarantine rules (which the rest of Europe has chosen not to impose, so go have a chat with Boris not FIFA or domestic FAs).

In fact, it's long been an issue with AFC bang in the middle of February and some clubs avoid African players like the plague as a result, while Wenger loved collecting them spoils and always took a hit during the run-in.

You see why those greedy cnuts wanted a Superleague now? All this stuff everyone is suddenly so passionate about has been bugging them for years!

 

[Daonico]

I am not sure what is covered under FIFA but a quick google search shows FIFA as regulators at the Olympics for football, not entirely sure though.

The second article explains why Salah didn't go, it seems he wanted to represent Egypt but was blocked, surprisingly even Konate was chosen but was not allowed.

It just seems strange that Egypt would not try their hardest to get their best player, whereas the Brazilians were not allowed due to Brazil being on the red list.

https://olympics.com/ioc/international-association-football-federation

https://www.si.com/soccer/liverpool/news/egypt-coach-responds-to-liverpool-denying-salah

I am pretty sure olympics are a bit of a different world, the last paragraph in this article (not sure how reliable) seems to say players need permission from their clubs. A quick search didn't get me anything better

However, if we go to fifa rules we find:

1 Principles for men’s football
1. Clubs are obliged to release their registered players to the representative teams of the country for which the player is eligible to play on the basis of his nationality if they are called up by the association concerned. Any agreement between a player and a club to the contrary is prohibited.
2. The release of players under the terms of paragraph 1 of this article is mandatory for all international windows listed in the international match calendar (cf. paragraphs 3 and 4 below) as well as for the final competitions of the FIFA World Cup™, the FIFA Confederations Cup and the championships for “A” representative teams of the confederations, subject to the relevant association being a member of the organising confederation.
3. After consultation with the relevant stakeholders, FIFA publishes the international match calendar for the period of four or eight years. It will include all international windows for the relevant period (cf. paragraph 4 below). Following the publication of the international match calendar only the final competitions of the FIFA World Cup™, the FIFA Confederations Cup and the championships for “A” representative teams of the confederations will be added

I guess olympics not being listed there is what made them "optional"

 

[ooeat0meoo]

It's FIFA mate. As I mentioned the other day, they once got the Brazilian government to show up with the federal police at the Uruguay camp and deport Suarez because he bit a rival player. They didn't just suspend him and ban him from stadiums (???) and being present at the Uruguay training camp (????), they actually got him kicked out of the country altogether. In what planet that makes any sense?

They are used to having their way, and in this context it was bound to happen that the (different) Brazilian authorities would find a very public way to put their foot down and shaft them 5 mins into a much anticipated globally-viewed fixture.

I believe Mike Tyson asked that question on Twitter

 

[antohan]

Surely the Premier League can tell them to sod off, let's see FIFA and UEFA penalise the biggest cash cow in world football. Newspapers seem to suggest this may happen and clubs also have the backing of the European Club Association to ignore the ban.

I wouldn't be surprised if Florentino talked the Brazilians into riling up the bigger PL clubs that folded in no time earlier this year.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

2 poor games where he was left to hang out to dry a little bit running around like a lost sheep, unable to do the fundamentals of football like controlling a ball, passing to a teammate, or putting in a tackle. People were praising him after Leeds.

Fred created his own problems.

 

[DoomSlayer]

The issue is the same as it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago, there's just more money at stake now and the exceptional circumstance of quarantine rules (which the rest of Europe has chosen not to impose, so go have a chat with Boris not FIFA or domestic FAs).

In fact, it's long been an issue with AFC bang in the middle of February and some clubs avoid African players like the plague as a result, while Wenger loved collecting them spoils and always took a hit during the run-in.

You see why those greedy cnuts wanted a Superleague now? All this stuff everyone is suddenly so passionate about has been bugging them for years!

The fact that the issue just keeps being bottled means it was eventually going to explode and create a very big problem for everyone involved. The Superleague was a money move made by greedy old bastards, which of course doesn't excuse the ineptitude and corruption within FIFA and the continental federations.

There should be dialogue and a consensus in the football world, before you expect clubs to put pressure to their local governments for some sort of change. That's why your suggestion sounds nonsensical to me.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Also to those saying thank god Fred is out. Watch Shelvey and Longstaff dominate a midfield of Pogba and Matic again and create chance after chance.

Our midfield isn't great but Pogba/Matic are world beaters compared to Shelvey/Longstaff.

 

[Mb194dc]

The point is to reduce it.

We'd be successful if adults could stop behaving like entitled children, but here we are 2 years later.

Reduce what? What has been reduced so far?

Travel restrictions in a an open economy like the UK have not achieved anything with regards to Covid variants, and there is no probability they ever will. So why have them? If you're China and keeping Covid out 100%, sure they make sense.

That's what's causing the problems here. If the red list continues, international football as we know it is over pretty much because clubs won't release players who have to quarantine coming back and it makes a totally mockery of a level playing field. Countries like Brazil will be on / off the "red list" for as long as it continues to exist.

 

[Red_Aaron]

This is Brazil we're talking about, a brown envelope or two and this all disappears

Maybe those oil clubs will finally come in handy

 

[Ali Dia]

Our midfield isn't great but Pogba/Matic are world beaters compared to Shelvey/Longstaff.

Just checked. The last 2 times we’ve played Newcastle with Pogba and Matic we’ve lost one and won one 1-0 and if I recall we were lucky to win the one we did.

It’s not about names. It’s about work rate, tempo and stopping the opposition from dominating the middle and making lots of quality chances. They will be up for it as always.

Win the middle ugly and take control of the game. Stand off and let the opposition run all over you and you’re in trouble

 

[Mrs Smoker]

It's FIFA mate. As I mentioned the other day, they once got the Brazilian government to show up with the federal police at the Uruguay camp and deport Suarez because he bit a rival player. They didn't just suspend him and ban him from stadiums (???) and being present at the Uruguay training camp (????), they actually got him kicked out of the country altogether. In what planet that makes any sense?

I approve of that anti-biting measure.

 

[Borussia Teeth]

It is clear that Fred cannot shine without McTominay, the plaudits he has got have all come when he is playing with McTominay.

It is clear that Fred cannot do a job in CM on his own, he just isn't good enough.

He was hung out to dry? How so? he was the one making passes that led to counter attacks?

he was the one mis controlling a ball that led to Wolves attacks.

I'm not Fred's biggest fan, but this can also be argued the other way round. McT's best performances have come playing along side Fred and he's generally poor when partnered with someone else. Basically, the two of them need each other.

 

[Ali Dia]

8 bazillion Brazilians

 

[Fully Fledged]

Oh right. It’s punishment for not travelling. So fecking crazy to use this rule during a pandemic. The Brazilian FA is a mess.

It's not only Brazil.

Wolves and Mexico forward Raul Jimenez; Newcastle's Paraguay midfielder Miguel Almiron and Watford's Chile defender Francisco Sierralta are also affected.

 

[Fully Fledged]

So dumb. Can't the players just refuse it themselves and not the clubs?

They still get banned unless they retire from international football. Also some of the players wanted to go so wouldn't have refused if it was left to them.

 

[diarm]

FIFA statutes don’t allow players to retire just from international football. If they were to do this they’d just get suspended from club play. It isn’t the players choice. If they are called they must attend or be suspended for club play. Typically players are just allowed to retire from internationals by mutual agreement. But if an FA is petty enough then technically they aren’t allowed and they’ll request they be suspended like Brazil now.

The first time FIFA try to enforce this, a player will take them to court for threatening their ability to make a living. It's utterly unenforceable.

 

[SATA]

It’s just Fred alone so I think we’ll probably just take the decision and keep it quiet. Meanwhile City and the dippers are losing two of their important players respectively, this may cause them more damage

 

[Daonico]

It's funny how most were happy to see Argentina face sanctions because they knowingly broke the rules with the 4 players... but also most are unhappy because the PL clubs who knowingly broke the rules may face a mild sanction too

 

[Acrobat7]

He is wrong, the UK, India, South Africa rule applies to both foreigners and Brazilians. The difference is you are never going to be deporting Brazilians if they fail to quarantine.

Controls over quarantines are of course almost non-existent... but you probably don't want to rub it in their face showing up at a stadium on cable TV.

Thanks mate!

 

[Semper Fudge]

Embarrassing flounce from the Brazilian FA. Is there a way the clubs can tell them to eff off?

 

[georgipep]

FIFA statutes don’t allow players to retire just from international football. If they were to do this they’d just get suspended from club play. It isn’t the players choice. If they are called they must attend or be suspended for club play. Typically players are just allowed to retire from internationals by mutual agreement. But if an FA is petty enough then technically they aren’t allowed and they’ll request they be suspended like Brazil now.

That's not true at all. Every player receives an invite they can choose to turn down.

 

[antohan]

That's not true at all. Every player receives an invite they can choose to turn down.

Not really.

Countries don't invite/call-up players randomly. They usually are part of the setup and there is prior communication. Basic planning really.

It's in nobody's interest to force players to play (see William Gallas at Chelsea ). The strong-arming is there primarily to avoid clubs coercing their players to turn down call-ups.

In this case I'd say it is being misused en masse in anticipation of further refusals in the next 4 breaks. While clubs have a point, NTs also do, how are you expected to successfully play out a World Cup qualifying campaign with key players dropping out?

It probably didn't help that the FIFA dates earlier this year were cancelled after pressure from the European clubs. Sooner or later it's going to catch up with you, and it needs to be before WC Groups are drawn.

 

[TrustInOle]

It's not quarantine rule. 3 years ago Irish FA invoked this rule when striker refused call up.

Wait, what!? If I am reading this right, if you get a National team call up and reject it, you can be punished by said nation at your club level?

 

[alexthelion]

Or the clubs can put pressure on the government to do away with the red list bollocks instead of unanimously agreeing, happy their players can take a rest and train back in England once they refuse the call-up.

That's the end game. You don't lobby? You lose 5 days. Lobby and that may be 0.

Why would PL clubs want their players going anywhere near Brazil?

 

[antohan]

Wait, what!? If I am reading this right, if you get a National team call up and reject it, you can be punished by said nation at your club level?

Correct, the overriding assumption is the club are behind the refusal, not the player. "We are the ones paying you", yadda yadda.

No FA is in the business of calling up players who don't want to play for them. There's nothing to be gained, that's why "retiring from international football" is a thing when not actually being strictly a player's right, just a gentlema's agreement.

 

[antohan]

Why would PL clubs want their players going anywhere near Brazil?

I'm not saying they should be happy about it, definitely not Brazil specifically.

The bottomline out of all of this week of shenanigans is Brazilians may have a case to call players up for aways as their own sanitary rules make home games not viable

They are getting tied up in knots.

 

[georgipep]

Not really.

Countries don't invite/call-up players randomly. They usually are part of the setup and there is prior communication. Basic planning really.

It's in nobody's interest to force players to play (see William Gallas at Chelsea ). The strong-arming is there primarily to avoid clubs coercing their players to turn down call-ups.

In this case I'd say it is being misused en masse in anticipation of further refusals in the next 4 breaks. While clubs have a point, NTs also do, how are you expected to successfully play out a World Cup qualifying campaign with key players dropping out?

It probably didn't help that the FIFA dates earlier this year were cancelled after pressure from the European clubs. Sooner or later it's going to catch up with you, and it needs to be before WC Groups are drawn.

I agree about the planning but that doesn't mean a player can't refuse.

The invoked rule is related to cases when clubs would fabricate excuses not to allow players to go and represent their country. It is not for cases when the players would have decided not to.

 

[Gums]

That's what's causing the problems here. If the red list continues, international football as we know it is over pretty much because clubs won't release players who have to quarantine coming back and it makes a totally mockery of a level playing field. Countries like Brazil will be on / off the "red list" for as long as it continues to exist.

Well maybe countries like Brazil should get a fecking grip and not sit back while an entire population the size of Glasgow‘s dies. I for one, wouldn‘t flinch if international football as it now exists died instead.

 

[GreenFieldsGoldenBarley]

So you people found another way to involve politics into football? And some even have the audacity to suggest clubs pressure their government to make policy changes. What kind of a fecking world do you live in where that can actually happen?

This is politics. Bolsonaro is running for a reelection and he's stoking nationalist feeling with all of this. He's trying to make Brazilians pissed off with England for treating Brazil as a covid pariah (which it is, and Bolsonaro has done all he can to allow covid to spread). I'm sure he encouraged anvisa to deport those Argentine players too, those 2 countries don't like each other much.

It's still a terrible idea for football clubs to intervene in politics so their players get exemptions from covid rules, obviously. Mad how people would trust our shitty club management with a bigger role in politics and health regulation.

 

[antohan]

I agree about the planning but that doesn't mean a player can't refuse.

The invoked rule is related to cases when clubs would fabricate excuses not to allow players to go and represent their country. It is not for cases when the players would have decided not to.

It's not supposed to be for that, but how can you tell one from the other? The player could be saying no under pressure, thus the override option.

It's a good mechanism if used appropriately. It's clear in this case it's more about dick swinging.

 

[Dargonk]

This is a really baffling situation for me. I really don't see why any player should be forced to play for a national team. It really should be a case of you are asked to represent your country, and it is up to the player if they want to accept the call up or not based on their current circumstances. Ie work, family, injuries etc..

 

[devilish]

Maybe EPL clubs should stir away from buying or retaining SA players in response to this crap. The time of SA teams dominating football has long gone. EPL clubs can easily ignore such market.

 

[The Boy]

This is just utter shithousery from Brazil.

First they storm the pitch to remove Argentina's premier league players, effetively because Argentina had their premiership players and Brazil didn't. They claim a breach of covid rules, where as just two months ago when the pandemic was even worse in the UK and South America they allowed Copa America and players to travel in and out of Brazil in standard bubbles for international matches regardless of where they had been.

Now to deflect from the idiocy of the Brazil Argentina game, they try to invoke the 5 day rule and shift the blame and anger onto premiership clubs. There is nothing fair about any of this as others have stated this is a PR exercise from Brazil and it's backfiring pretty badly outside Brazil, I'd be interested o know the reaction in the country.

 

[MinGin]

It is fecking ridiculous to play nation international game like the past during pandemic.
The problem like cross infection, quarantine etc cannot be solved during this period and the clubs have no voluntary to release the players longer for their quarantine to play just one/two national games monthly.
Why FIFA cannot coordinate with all league association to change the fixture. For example, to shorten the league fixture within 8~9 months, then play the national game within 1-2 months and take the rest/quarantine in 1 month.
It will be more effective to run the game during pandemic.