Eight Brazilian players might be ineligible to play this weekend

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
What I don't get is why they were effectively having an extra Copa America anyway. They had a Copa America in 2015 and 2016 and then again in 2019, so why was one schedule for 2020? And if it had to be delayed you're right given they'd had one the year before why didn't they cancel it?
See FIFA and their WC proposals.

Copa used to be every two years but once the qualifiers adopted a league format it all got pretty congested so we switched to four (Summer after World Cup).

Then in 2016 they held a one-off Centennial edition, making it back-to-back. They made so much money hosting that in the US they went back to the drawing board to work out how to get the most money out of it all.

It's nothing to do with the sport or respect for the standing and history of these tournos. Just the cow-milking exploiting the franchise bollocks we are well used to.
 

GMoore23

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
1,305
I saw Fred training in the vid with Ronaldo the other day so he can't be affected by this.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
16,832
So what will happen to them? You really have to be a special kind of stupid to lie on government documents especially where Brazil are concerned. Didn’t they throw Ronaldinho in prison for lying about something?
 

flappyjay

Full Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
4,193
These are the qualifiers for the world cup in the summer, not friendlies. If anything, they could have organized them in a neutral venue bubble in a green lit country.
The world cup is in November/December next year not in the summer. If the int breaks were removed for the entire season the PL and the European cups would have been scheduled to finish earlier than normal. That would allow for qualification to be done around may/June.
 

RDCR07

Not a bad guy (Whale Killer)
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
29,127
Location
Transfer Forum
I meant that as he was training with us all week, he wasn't on duty with Brazil so didn't think he'd be affected by this.
That’s why he is affected cause EPL teams fail to release their players. So Fred was called up but we refused to send him. So if the ban is held up today he will be affected, which is a good thing. I want to see someone else in that DM position.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

Full Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2014
Messages
18,550
Location
København
Supports
Time Travel
The world cup is in November/December next year not in the summer. If the int breaks were removed for the entire season the PL and the European cups would have been scheduled to finish earlier than normal. That would allow for qualification to be done around may/June.
I doubt UEFA and the FA would change their TV itinerary twice in two years to do a favor to FIFA jackasses who sold the World Cup to Qatar. The winter World Cup already looks like a shit show.
 

GMoore23

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 22, 2014
Messages
1,305
He was called up and didn't go to Brazil hence the punishment.
That’s why he is affected cause EPL teams fail to release their players. So Fred was called up but we refused to send him. So if the ban is held up today he will be affected, which is a good thing. I want to see someone else in that DM position.
Thanks for the update, been real busy all week so not really up to speed with what's been going on.
I think it's a blow to be honest. Fred has been literally playing as the lone cm the past couple of games with Matic playing as a 3rd CB and Pogba hiding further forward. Pogba literally placed himself in positions where he couldnt receive the ball in the first half vs wolves. He's a 10 or a LF for me all day.
 

Daonico

Full Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
208
Location
Uruguay
So what will happen to them? You really have to be a special kind of stupid to lie on government documents especially where Brazil are concerned. Didn’t they throw Ronaldinho in prison for lying about something?
I think you are talking about something else, or at least mixing stuff.
If you are talking about the Argentinians who entered Brazil without declaring that they have been in UK, nothing will happen to them as far as I know, they were deported and that's it.
There was talk that their clubs would punish them, but I don't know if it was official
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
So what will happen to them? You really have to be a special kind of stupid to lie on government documents especially where Brazil are concerned. Didn’t they throw Ronaldinho in prison for lying about something?
That happened in Paraguay. Like the great philosopher Ian Rush once said about playing for Juventus: "It's like being in a different country"
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
The world cup is in November/December next year not in the summer. If the int breaks were removed for the entire season the PL and the European cups would have been scheduled to finish earlier than normal. That would allow for qualification to be done around may/June.
That however means that the higher profile NTs would play them out with their players absolutely wasted, while the ones with more domestic-based NTs (or European but not playing 50+ games a season) are in better nick.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,076
That however means that the higher profile NTs would play them out with their players absolutely wasted, while the ones with more domestic-based NTs (or European but not playing 50+ games a season) are in better nick.
Maybe they’d be less wasted without the constant travelling and additional games associated with international breaks. Maybe it would actually be a good thing for clubs, international teams and players.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
Thanks for the update, been real busy all week so not really up to speed with what's been going on.
I think it's a blow to be honest. Fred has been literally playing as the lone cm the past couple of games with Matic playing as a 3rd CB and Pogba hiding further forward. Pogba literally placed himself in positions where he couldnt receive the ball in the first half vs wolves. He's a 10 or a LF for me all day.
Agree, anyone looking for this monster DM so we can accommodate Pogba not being really a CM needs his head checked. It's completely imbalanced. You can get away with it in one off games but not in the weekly grind of a league campaign, it will simply cost you too many points over the course of a season.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
Maybe they’d be less wasted without the constant travelling and additional games associated with international breaks. Maybe it would actually be a good thing for clubs, international teams and players.
Maybe isn't good enough. The only evidence / hard facts we have available are the qualifiers in June and Copa America after it being a shitshow. It was like watching The Walking Dead.

I'm still miffed the way they rearranged the order in the calendar at a couple of weeks' notice. We were supposed to play Brazil and Argentina with Cavani suspended and Suárez doing his best Neville Southall impersonation (two games you don't expect points from) and instead got two "easy games" brought forward: cue two goalless draws and four banker points dropped. We would be second and two wins away from almost certain qualification just mustering a single goal in each. Instead, those two games alone will now make it go to the wire. If it were as you suggest I would give up altogether.
 

Redlyn

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
2,395
Of course it is. Oddly though, this week several clubs are going to visit or host foreign teams that didn't quarantine at all. Good thing we are hosting Young Boys and not PSG.

They don't have the right to do so, FIFA statutes make it crystal clear.

Probably. They will make a fuss about it, but it's indeed a choice of government quarantine or FIFA sanction. Can't have their cake and eat it.

Maybe they should have put more consideration and tried to work out options with the NTs? They didn't, they just decided they paid the wages so NTs could go feck themselves.

Despite Ole making a pig's ear of it in public with his Norway reference, I do know privately the club made a pretty good case, which was the reason Cavani didn't get called up in the first place.


We have the first secretaries of Foreign Affairs and Health both tasked with the Free Cavani mission. We actually know whose job (and political win/loss) it is to sort this out :lol:
You say they don't have to the right to not release their player. They don't need to have the right just like how a player doesn't need to have the right to commit a tactical foul. They just do it and take the punishment.

Apparently they are planning to not even take the punishment. Proper having their cake and eating it, but I don't blame them. Let's see how this will end in the long run and this weekend. Maybe by the next international break there could be a government exemption in place.
 
Last edited:

One Night Only

Prison Bitch #24604
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
25,462
Location
Westworld
You say they don't have to the right to not release their player. They don't need to have the right just like how a player doesn't need to have the right to commit a tactical foul. They just do it and take the punishment.

Apparently they are planning to not even take the punishment. Proper having their cake and eating it, but I don't blame them. Let's see how this will end in the long run and this weekend. Maybe by the next international break there could be a government exemption in place.
We just don't need to play Fred, let the others play their Brazilians and dock them all 30 points.
 

united_99

Takes pleasure in other people's pain
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
7,381
So what‘s happening now? Surely we should know by now if Fred can play tomorrow? Should the Premier League not give green light to all involved clubs? Maybe they already have.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,076
Maybe isn't good enough. The only evidence / hard facts we have available are the qualifiers in June and Copa America after it being a shitshow. It was like watching The Walking Dead.

I'm still miffed the way they rearranged the order in the calendar at a couple of weeks' notice. We were supposed to play Brazil and Argentina with Cavani suspended and Suárez doing his best Neville Southall impersonation (two games you don't expect points from) and instead got two "easy games" brought forward: cue two goalless draws and four banker points dropped. We would be second and two wins away from almost certain qualification just mustering a single goal in each. Instead, those two games alone will now make it go to the wire. If it were as you suggest I would give up altogether.
Yes, because the qualifiers in June come after the numerous international breaks throughout the season. Remove them and you remove that number of games. You also remove the pointless travelling back and forth. There’s no way they wouldn’t be less tired. The maybe was sarcasm. There is no maybe.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
You say they don't have to the right to not release their player. They don't need to have the right just like how a player doesn't need to have the right to commit a tactical foul. They just do it and take the punishment.

Apparently they are planning to not even take the punishment. Proper having their cake and eating it, but I don't blame them. Let's see how this will end in the long run and this weekend. Maybe by the next international break there could be a government exemption in place.
Which is what it is all ultimately aimed at, not victimising players, or clubs, but underlining this is the UK government applying the same logic to international players as to any random international passenger on a plane. There's a bit more infrastructure, management and checks and balances to leverage with the former.

Again, if PSG were visiting us next week instead of Young Boys, would Neymar and Messi be quarantined or stopped from entering the country? Would the authorities storm into Old Trafford and drag them out? I don't think so.

Where's the difference between them getting on that pitch and Fred or Cavani? In fact, the government have a whole raft of options to control/punish/fine us, but not PSG, so why not leave the "problem" in the hands of the clubs, to manage and sort out as they see fit?
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
Yes, because the qualifiers in June come after the numerous international breaks throughout the season. Remove them and you remove that number of games. You also remove the pointless travelling back and forth. There’s no way they wouldn’t be less tired. The maybe was sarcasm. There is no maybe.
Firstly, it's not a given. Being tired is not just a physical but also psychological issue. In Europe, int'l breaks and the associated travel may be a chore for most (largely home-based) players. For South American players they offer an opportunity to catch up with friends, family, fellow professionals, etc. Take that away for 9 months and make them solely focus on their wet and windy nights at Stoke. Far from being a guaranteed bonus.

Second, the domestic games would be affected. It would be to our benefit, but right now quite a few PL teams with much thinner squads are having a couple of weeks off (training aside). Suddenly that relative advantage would disappear for them.

Third, you would need to change all calendars and associated TV schedules, as well as also play out the Euro qualifiers in June. You would then have the likes of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Netherlands really fecking worried about the exact same issue I'm bringing up re: Conmebol. Serbia, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway would get a massive boost. Lose first place and you are facing a play-off, on your last legs.

Yeah, FIFA were obviously going to go down the route of jeopardising the entire WC tournament by reducing the chances of big/historic nations and the best players in the world making it.

No brainer, no maybe. Or not.
 

acnumber9

Full Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2006
Messages
19,076
Firstly, it's not a given. Being tired is not just a physical but also psychological issue. In Europe, int'l breaks and the associated travel may be a chore for most (largely home-based) players. For South American players they offer an opportunity to catch up with friends, family, fellow professionals, etc. Take that away for 9 months and make them solely focus on their wet and windy nights at Stoke. Far from being a guaranteed bonus.

Second, the domestic games would be affected. It would be to our benefit, but right now quite a few PL teams with much thinner squads are having a couple of weeks off (training aside). Suddenly that relative advantage would disappear for them.

Third, you would need to change all calendars and associated TV schedules, as well as also play out the Euro qualifiers in June. You would then have the likes of Portugal, Spain, Italy and Netherlands really fecking worried about the exact same issue I'm bringing up re: Conmebol. Serbia, Sweden, Switzerland and Norway would get a massive boost. Lose first place and you are facing a play-off, on your last legs.

Yeah, FIFA were obviously going to go down the route of jeopardising the entire WC tournament by reducing the chances of big/historic nations and the best players in the world making it.

No brainer, no maybe. Or not.
We’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid. For me international football is a boring, soulless sideshow for the most part. Moving it out of the traditional calendar would alleviate that and actually make international football a little more interesting.
 

choccy77

Full Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
2,893
I've seen tonight premier league clubs are gonna defy the ban and play the players.

Let's see how many officials run onto the pitches this weekend
 

Flying_Heckfish

Full Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
4,359
Location
Hand in Glove
I've seen tonight premier league clubs are gonna defy the ban and play the players.

Let's see how many officials run onto the pitches this weekend
Proper watershed moment if so. The PL certainly has the clout to defy FIFA but any blowback will be on the players - will they want to play?
 

Redlyn

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
2,395
Which is what it is all ultimately aimed at, not victimising players, or clubs, but underlining this is the UK government applying the same logic to international players as to any random international passenger on a plane. There's a bit more infrastructure, management and checks and balances to leverage with the former.

Again, if PSG were visiting us next week instead of Young Boys, would Neymar and Messi be quarantined or stopped from entering the country? Would the authorities storm into Old Trafford and drag them out? I don't think so.

Where's the difference between them getting on that pitch and Fred or Cavani? In fact, the government have a whole raft of options to control/punish/fine us, but not PSG, so why not leave the "problem" in the hands of the clubs, to manage and sort out as they see fit?
Messi or any other player who visited a red list country in the previous 10 days would be stopped from entering the country completely, it's not about PSG or young boys.
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
12,738
Location
Stamford Bridge
As above, they care about their local club, but only get to watch decent football with their pulse racing during internationals.
Even back when we were shit, it was following my team that got my pulse racing, never had any interest in watching better other teams. I guess it's the difference between football fans and fans of football.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
We’ll have to agree to disagree I’m afraid. For me international football is a boring, soulless sideshow for the most part. Moving it out of the traditional calendar would alleviate that and actually make international football a little more interesting.
I had figured that out :lol:
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
Messi or any other player who visited a red list country in the previous 10 days would be stopped from entering the country completely, it's not about PSG or young boys.
Fixtures have been very kind if so. Hilariously, I can only think of one player affected by this.

Looking forward to Brazilian Paquetá getting sent back to France next week for actually having played for them :lol:
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
Even back when we were shit, it was following my team that got my pulse racing, never had any interest in watching better other teams. I guess it's the difference between football fans and fans of football.
You completely missed the point.

That's precisely what I'm saying, that supporters of Alianza Lima love their club but are doomed to watch shit and soulless football. The only time they get to see good football, a team and players they care about is when Peru plays.

That's why internationals are big fixtures for these FOOTBALL FANS, not the nuisance they are for the average spoilt user on here dismissing them.

Yes, they can watch the PL or CL games, but couldn't give two shits about the outcomes.
 

Kentonio

Full Member
Scout
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
12,738
Location
Stamford Bridge
You completely missed the point.

That's precisely what I'm saying, that supporters of Alianza Lima love their club but are doomed to watch shit and soulless football. The only time they get to see good football, a team and players they care about is when Peru plays.

That's why internationals are big fixtures for these FOOTBALL FANS, not the nuisance they are for the average spoilt user on here dismissing them.

Yes, they can watch the PL or CL games, but couldn't give two shits about the outcomes.
No, the point is that you think that the football they play is 'shit and souless' but that's not generally how fans of smaller teams think about the game their teams play. Football doesn't need to be played at the top level to be fascinating and brilliant, if it was then the game would never have taken off in the first place.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
39,272
Location
Montevideo
No, the point is that you think that the football they play is 'shit and souless' but that's not generally how fans of smaller teams think about the game their teams play. Football doesn't need to be played at the top level to be fascinating and brilliant, if it was then the game would never have taken off in the first place.
You are the expert on South American small club football aren't you?

They are passionate about their club, their colours and proud of the homegrown players that made it... and got ripped out of their hands way before turning 20.

The average club goes through 2-3 managers a year and is a collection of:

- Under 20s you love but will go by the next window
- 20-30yo who weren't good enough for anyone to want them, most still get chopped and changed every 6-12 months as domestically they are valuable commodities
- Former stars that return for retirement or pitch camp for a few months to stay active until their agent sorts out the next move to Recreativo Huelva

It's shite, it's gut-wrenching, it's impossible to develop any bond with the individuals that wear YOUR badge.

And then you have internationals, when many of the boys that once made you proud are wearing your badge and your colours once again. Of course they love them and look forward to those. They aren't spoilt brats moaning they didn't get Trippier or Rice on top of Sancho, Varane and Cristiano, then moaning they don't get to see them for two weeks 'cause of them feckin' internationals.