Eight games away from another disastrous season under Ole

Relfy

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
 

Number32

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If poch was that good turning bad players to be the serial-winners, Espanyol would be begging for his come back to saves their live.

But both Espanyol and Poch knew they couldn't. Poch got sacked by Espanyol when they were in relegation battle, then Espanyol were getting better without him.

Poch was a good manger, but he was lucky to have such a talent in Southampton and Spurs. He couldn't won with bad players.
 

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
Poch has always been meh. The obsession with him on this forum is bizarre.
 

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
Probably not, latest it is "not sophisticated enough". Despite recently we usually has 6x % possession with 6xx passes a match. Surely they'd come up with something new, don't worry :wenger:
 

lysglimt

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He achieved a lot at Spurs than we did with fewer resources. He is far more tactically sophisticated than Ole, which allows him to get more out of less good players.
Oh don't give me that "he achieved so much" - the fact is that when he left Spurs they weren't in a better position than when he took over - and they are completely dependent on Kane and Son.
 

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He achieved a lot at Spurs than we did with fewer resources. He is far more tactically sophisticated than Ole, which allows him to get more out of less good players.
I'm a Poch fan and rates his work very highly, just trying to understand what do you mean by tactically sophisticated? If he was so good tactically why was his record against big 6 away so poor? That too when Arsenal, ManUtd, Chelsea, Liverpool had lot of ups and down.
 

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Regarding this sophisticated stuffs. The commentators of my TV channel are usually complete idiots but the last few match he said we're sometime too complicated in our attacking moves. He's pretty correct imo.

Tactic is not just the 352 or 4231 etc. The most important thing is how the coach ask his players to move or do in a certain situation. To play to their own strength or to exploit the weakness of the team they face in general.

Now back to our team. We all know that our trio interchange their positions and make movements across the lines in order to stretch and trick the opposition defense into making mistake. But that's all we known. It's not as simple as it sounds at all. It's not like those three just make some random movements and run around aimlessly and this could work. Each would receive tactical guide and notice of when to move, who would move and what to do following that one, what's next etc. Depending on the characteristic and personal of each defense we face. Tactic is much more complicated behind the scene than some random fanfic analysis here and there.

I watched us really carefully in the last 4 matches and frankly I still have no idea when or who should move next. Why Greenwood was on the right and suddenly he was on the left with a scoring chance etc. Of course this is normal, if I'd known how I don't think I would have to sit here posting in the caf.
 

MalcolmTucker

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He achieved a lot at Spurs than we did with fewer resources. He is far more tactically sophisticated than Ole, which allows him to get more out of less good players.
If he is far more tactically sophisticated then please explain some specific tactical signatures, patterns or innovations that Pochettino has exhibited. Every time someone makes a claim like this they never actually give it any context.

When Ole and Pochettino did face off, Ole won. We used a diamond formation and beat them with the likes of Jones, Young and Lingard starting away from home against a full strength Tottenham. That shows specific 'tactical sophistication' and shows that Ole can adapt to the opposition and get more out of lesser players because 19 months ago only 3-4 of our players starting that day would have got near their starting 11.
 

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Couldn't agree more . The Muppetry on here is mind blowing at times . Ole learnt at United from the best he still has him around now and I'm sure he talks to him alot . People on here would have us believe Ole was snatched from a pub and chucked into managing United .
The job he is doing is unbelievable. To get rid of the players we all wanted rid of and it looks like Jones, Lingard, Sanchez will all move on this summer as well is brilliant by him .
He has got Shaw , Martial , Rashford ,Pogba all playing very well when other managers couldn't .

Will we win a title ? Who knows but one thing I do know is whoever gets the job after Ole will have one hell of a easier Job than the job he inherited.
Another of those phrases used in football that sounds intelligent but means absolutely nothing.
Ole isn't tactically sophisticated, is he; he has a simplistic approach which seems to be if you score more than the other team, you win.

He was very lucky to get away with winning against Chelsea and City home and away. Ole out, bring back Lukaku, sell Fernandes, sell Pogba, bring back Lingz and Andreas.
 

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He achieved a lot at Spurs than we did with fewer resources. He is far more tactically sophisticated than Ole, which allows him to get more out of less good players.
I’m no expert, I’ve no formal football education, neither theoretical nor practical, so could you please explain to me how he is far more tactically sophisticated? I’m genuinely eager to learn. If not, I’m guessing it’s just your opinion based on absolutely nothing, other than being a fan of Poch.
 

romufc

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If he is far more tactically sophisticated then please explain some specific tactical signatures, patterns or innovations that Pochettino has exhibited. Every time someone makes a claim like this they never actually give it any context.

When Ole and Pochettino did face off, Ole won. We used a diamond formation and beat them with the likes of Jones, Young and Lingard starting away from home against a full strength Tottenham. That shows specific 'tactical sophistication' and shows that Ole can adapt to the opposition and get more out of lesser players because 19 months ago only 3-4 of our players starting that day would have got near their starting 11.
I have no doubt Poch is a good manager but would he have got us playing the same way as we are now? Probably not.

Ole understands the club, no other manager has understood the club. Ole is an outstanding man manager.

Poch had a bit of success when Chelsea, Arsenal, United were all really down in the dumps. A few seasons even City and Pool were struggling. The Leicester season was there for Spurs to win it, if that was us we would be calling for his head.

I really do think we done decent to stick by Ole and not hire Poch for the time being.
 

Mainoldo

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
Ole gets the reign for another season. You can’t sack a manager after that finish and the way we are looking in the form of direction. What we do the following season should be judged accordingly.
 

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If he is far more tactically sophisticated then please explain some specific tactical signatures, patterns or innovations that Pochettino has exhibited. Every time someone makes a claim like this they never actually give it any context.

When Ole and Pochettino did face off, Ole won. We used a diamond formation and beat them with the likes of Jones, Young and Lingard starting away from home against a full strength Tottenham. That shows specific 'tactical sophistication' and shows that Ole can adapt to the opposition and get more out of lesser players because 19 months ago only 3-4 of our players starting that day would have got near their starting 11.
But... but... but... Poch made an adjustment at the half and we didn't score any more! (Meaning, of course, that Poch got it wrong in the first half and Ole got it right. But, oh, wait, Spurs didn't score in the second half, either)

Ole isn't tactically sophisticated, is he; he has a simplistic approach which seems to be if you score more than the other team, you win.

He was very lucky to get away with winning against Chelsea and City home and away. Ole out, bring back Lukaku, sell Fernandes, sell Pogba, bring back Lingz and Andreas.
Well, yeah... football is a simple game. :D
 

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
Of course it does, I dont think anybody that was doubtful of Ole's ability, including myself, has ever said his position should be in danger unless we fail to make the CL again this year. I've always maintained that he should be finishing minimum 4th with that squad and also considering those run in fixtures in comparison to our rivals I believed it'd be a big failure not to. That's exactly what he seems to be doing so he'll fully deserve another season to hopefully push on for the title.
 

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It would take an absolute bottle job from us at this stage not to finish top four.
 

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
Poch finished second in the season Chelsea won the title iirc.

Beside he did it with much less resources. Look ah how much spent on our current lineup and compare it to how much Spurs spent on their team during this period.

Poch has his problems and I criticized him a lot during previous few years beside I won't want any managerial changing with our great current form, but I don't get the bashing for anyone who think he's overall a better manager than Ole. Beside it's just funny how the view suddenly changed about him.

Poch was the biggest darling of the Caf during the last 5 years and everyone was using him as an example of doing great without money in comparison to our managers but now that we have Ole the general opinions about him shifted 180 degrees. Pretty weird to say the least.
 

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Not doing badly against the top clubs in comparison. Our biggest problem has been against the 'lower' sides where we've struggled to break them down but since having Bruno and Pogba back we've enjoyed more success in those games.
 

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I’m no expert, I’ve no formal football education, neither theoretical nor practical, so could you please explain to me how he is far more tactically sophisticated? I’m genuinely eager to learn. If not, I’m guessing it’s just your opinion based on absolutely nothing, other than being a fan of Poch.
I would suggest that he played a high pressing game whereas Ole played on the break. The former is more modern in its approach and more difficult to counter. It therefore tends to yield better results - which is why Liverpool, City (and Spurs for a while) tend to dominate the league even when playing badly.

Ole's approach works well when everyone is playing well and luck is with us. But that's probably not enough over the course of a season.
 

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I would suggest that he played a high pressing game whereas Ole played on the break. The former is more modern in its approach and more difficult to counter. It therefore tends to yield better results - which is why Liverpool, City (and Spurs for a while) tend to dominate the league even when playing badly.

Ole's approach works well when everyone is playing well and luck is with us. But that's probably not enough over the course of a season.
Oh, okay. I think we’ve adapted a high press vs a lot of teams lately. We also did successfully vs City in intervals, which saw us get chances after winning the ball high up the pitch. Not one of our main traits yet, I’d agree, but Ole has talked about wanting us to do so. I also saw a half time analysis where they compared where our counter attacks started under Ole vs Mourinho, which was night and day, so some sort of high press has been seen. Not sure if a high press in itself is very sophisticated either, since a lot of teams do it now

Edit: Also, and I’not being glib here, but I think you are very generous when you say Pochettino’s Spurs dominated the league.
 

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If we finish this season 3rd in the league and 1 of, if not both, the FA Cup and EL, does the argument for Poch die a death? Ole would have equaled his highest league finish and actually won a trophy. Just curious.
With the investment Ole has made on this squad, that is what the minimum requirements of accomplishment should be. Comparing a big club accomplishment like Manchester United to that of Spurs is comical. Poch took Spurs past their level, whereas United has been underachieving for a few years and this season has not changed that.

If next season we are still battling for top four trophy and not champions league or premier league and fans see that as a success, our standard has drop to low and those aren’t real United fans.
 

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With the investment Ole has made on this squad, that is what the minimum requirements of accomplishment should be. Comparing a big club accomplishment like Manchester United to that of Spurs is comical. Poch took Spurs past their level, whereas United has been underachieving for a few years and this season has not changed that.

You are forgetting though, that Spurs had a much better squad than Man United when Poch got sacked than when Ole took over.
 

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You are forgetting though, that Spurs had a much better squad than Man United when Poch got sacked than when Ole took over.
Nah, Poch made them look good. They are struggling now and even those who criticize Poch would admit that that team was playing beyond their real capabilities. A good manager does that and make even average players appear good.
 

glazed

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Oh, okay. I think we’ve adapted a high press vs a lot of teams lately. We also did successfully vs City in intervals, which saw us get chances after winning the ball high up the pitch. Not one of our main traits yet, I’d agree, but Ole has talked about wanting us to do so. I also saw a half time analysis where they compared where our counter attacks started under Ole vs Mourinho, which was night and day, so some sort of high press has been seen. Not sure if a high press in itself is very sophisticated either, since a lot of teams do it now

Edit: Also, and I’not being glib here, but I think you are very generous when you say Pochettino’s Spurs dominated the league.
I think they had a few top four finishes and a champions league final. That's pretty good going. Spurs, City and Liverpool were the dominant teams when we were finishing sixth with a much more expensive squad. Spurs were definitely the third best of the three of course.

In relation to our high press, it's something Ole might aspire to but I honestly don''t think he knows how to coach it. High press is more than counter attacking high up the pitch - it's about a positional discipline that our team isn't attuned to. It's also about having a different kind of defense and goal keeper.
 

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I think they had a few top four finishes and a champions league final. That's pretty good going. Spurs, City and Liverpool were the dominant teams when we were finishing sixth with a much more expensive squad.

In relation to our high press, it's something Ole might aspire to but I honestly don''t think he knows how to coach it. High press is more than counter attacking high up the pitch - it's about a positional discipline that our team isn't attuned to. It's also about having a different kind of defense and goal keeper.
Fair enough, I’d disagree a little though. Counter attacks starting in the oppositions half is what high press aims to do, imo.
 

glazed

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Fair enough, I’d disagree a little though. Counter attacks starting in the oppositions half is what high press aims to do, imo.
Agree - but it involves a lot more than that. There's a reason why Klopp and Pep are dominant and they both mastered this style of play. If it were easy you'd see everyone doing it. Poch and Arteta aren't quite as good imho but they are getting there.
 

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One win away from securing third place. One loss away from a potential 5th place. Fine margins.
 

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Going back to this thread, do we think that Ole's job is effectively on the line in this game (unless we win the Europa)?
 

Jordan_mufc

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Going back to this thread, do we think that Ole's job is effectively on the line in this game (unless we win the Europa)?
Absolutely not. The signs of improvement are there. With a few good signings and some quality depth in the squad, we are going to look a top top side.

Sacking Ole would be criminal
 

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Absolutely not. The signs of improvement are there. With a few good signings and some quality depth in the squad, we are going to look a top top side.

Sacking Ole would be criminal
Just I seem to remember at the start of the season most people seem to regard Champions League qualification as the minimum requirement.
 

Jordan_mufc

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Just I seem to remember at the start of the season most people seem to regard Champions League qualification as the minimum requirement.
Yeah but I feel like we have had to taper our expectations given what has transpired during the season. Losing Pogba, Martial and Rashford for extended periods of time really hampered our season. If we didn't play so well post-lockdown then I could understand the calls for his head
 

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Just I seem to remember at the start of the season most people seem to regard Champions League qualification as the minimum requirement.
Still is to be honest. No one has a right to sit and say "but we have a plan, but we look better" when we've been overtaken by Chelsea and Leicester, both with newer managers implementing better consistency in shorter time.

That said, if he gets Champions League you could argue its more than job done given circumstances, and that the way our team has clicked is something we never saw since SAF. So two sides of the story there..

In either scenario however, I think next season is the year hel be under pressure to really step up. This season isn't the time to talk about whether Ole is the right man or not because the bar is set low for him. When he's given a couple players he wants and is expected to really push, we will see what he's about.
 

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Just I seem to remember at the start of the season most people seem to regard Champions League qualification as the minimum requirement.
Well nobody expected a title challenge so minimum and maximum kind of meeting in the middle
 

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Still is to be honest. No one has a right to sit and say "but we have a plan, but we look better" when we've been overtaken by Chelsea and Leicester, both with newer managers implementing better consistency in shorter time.

That said, if he gets Champions League you could argue its more than job done given circumstances, and that the way our team has clicked is something we never saw since SAF. So two sides of the story there..

In either scenario however, I think next season is the year hel be under pressure to really step up. This season isn't the time to talk about whether Ole is the right man or not because the bar is set low for him. When he's given a couple players he wants and is expected to really push, we will see what he's about.
I agree about next season. We should be comfortably top 4 next year, there shouldn't be any question about that, and we should be getting closer to city and Liverpool, and comfortably beating this seasons points tally.
 

Rafaeldagold

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Going back to this thread, do we think that Ole's job is effectively on the line in this game (unless we win the Europa)?
Absolutely should get sacked , but he won’t unfortunately.

Champions league was a requirement for Moyes, LVG & Jose. (Rightly so)
But not Ole? Go figure. Our winning mentality is diminishing year on year
 

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Next year we should be fighting for the top 2 spots. Ole will be judged then.
 

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Ole”s never going to get top two not in a million years, next season will be similar to this one with top four the requirement.
 

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Going back to this thread, do we think that Ole's job is effectively on the line in this game (unless we win the Europa)?
No, I doubt that very much. The team has made significant strides since the turn of the year, and the board, you'd assume, would surely like to see how it fares next season regardless of how the current one ends.

Absolutely should get sacked , but he won’t unfortunately.

Champions league was a requirement for Moyes, LVG & Jose. (Rightly so)
But not Ole? Go figure. Our winning mentality is diminishing year on year
We're on a 14 games unbeaten streak in the league, playing fast attacking football, the players are happy, in possession of an attacking trio that rivals the best the PL has to offer, and a strong contingent of academy products on the verge of breaking into the first team. All of which is a reflection of Ole's management of the club by one degree or another.

Sacking him now would reset all that and risk destabilizing the squad.