Eight games away from another disastrous season under Ole

[Carl]

Absolutely should get sacked , but he won’t unfortunately.

Champions league was a requirement for Moyes, LVG & Jose. (Rightly so)
But not Ole? Go figure. Our winning mentality is diminishing year on year

And its been working out so well for us following that strategy, right?

Look, I'm not one of these "give a manager loads of time" types but I do think there has been enough promise shown this season to give Ole next season too.

As we can see, hard lines like "top 4 or sacked" are a bit of a nonsense. You're basically saying our manager next season comes down to 1 game. Which doesn't make sense.

If we lose and chelsea lose we make top4. By your logic he shouldn't be sacked. However if we lose and chelsea win then he deserves to get sacked - despite our result and performance being no different.

You should judge based on what you've seen over the season, and whilst there have been plenty of disappointments and frustrations I personally think weve seen enough promise with this rebuild to leave me encouraged going into next season.

 

[POF]

Whether he finishes 3rd or 5th, he'll definitely be in charge next season. It's been a great turnaround this season.

From the squad he inherited, it was 3 in, 6 out for the first half of the season. The outs were generally first team regulars or big money players. It left the squad criminally short of depth. The 2 in 2 out in January really got Ole a squad he could work with for the first time this season and his record since has been really good.

There's lots of work to be done and it's vital the club backs him in the market this summer. When your manager only has 14-15 players he's willing to play you have a real issue with depth.

They need at least 2 attacking players, a centre back and a full back to be genuinely competitive next season. 4 or 5 more could go, so lots of work to be done this window. Having an alternative to Bruno is crucial. He's played almost every minute since he's joined the club and he looks shattered.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

And its been working out so well for us following that strategy, right?

Look, I'm not one of these "give a manager loads of time" types but I do think there has been enough promise shown this season to give Ole next season too.

As we can see, hard lines like "top 4 or sacked" are a bit of a nonsense. You're basically saying our manager next season comes down to 1 game. Which doesn't make sense.

If we lose and chelsea lose we make top4. By your logic he shouldn't be sacked. However if we lose and chelsea win then he deserves to get sacked - despite our result and performance being no different.

You should judge based on what you've seen over the season, and whilst there have been plenty of disappointments and frustrations I personally think weve seen enough promise with this rebuild to leave me encouraged going into next season.

No it hasn’t come down to 1 game. It’s come down to 38 games which if we don’t get the result on Sunday he’s failed at.

 

[Carl]

No it hasn’t come down to 1 game. It’s come down to 38 games which if we don’t get the result on Sunday he’s failed at.

But he could not get the result on sunday but still make top4..

 

[Rafaeldagold]

But he could not get the result on sunday but still make top4..

I want him sacked regardless if we get top 4 or not, but the case could be made to stay if he gets Champions League that’s all.

He’s tactically not good, in game management awful, coaching seems non existent. He’s good at creating a nice atmosphere in the squad but that’s not enough to be United manager. Or it used to not be

 

[Real Madras]

How do you want ‘ he’s not that good & should be sacked’ to be constructive?

In my opinion Ole has changed the way we play and has proven he can take Manchester United on a run of 10+ games where we are picking up points not seen since 2013. Name me one manager post Sir Alex at United that has done this. Ole has proven he can go on a run. That’s one thing I believe he already has over all the other managers we’ve had.

Ole has shown me, that he can buy right. He’s buying players we as fans can really like. Young, hungry and very talented. We’ve got some very good players coming though right now. He’s changed the culture of the club which other managers have ruined. In spite of all of this he hasn’t won a trophy yet but Klopp, a god in Liverpool has taken 5 years to win the PL.

It’s Ole’s 2nd year and we are on the verge of finishing 3rd or 4th with many people writing us off in January. Through injury, through ‘not being that good’ as you say has clawed back 14 points from Leicester and now sits above them with 1 game to go. Come on man. This thread is pointless in my eyes and I stand by that.

I will also stand by Ole until he shows signs of not making any progress.

 

[POF]

It is still the bare minimum. If we don't get in top 4 it would mean we spent almost 200m on a team that came 6th the previous season and moved only to 5th. It would mean we ended up behind Chelsea who lost their best player and had a transfer ban. It would mean we were behind Leceister a team that came 9th the previous season and also lost their best defender to us. Being behind these two teams after almost 200m spent should be considered a bad season. The board would have to ask "is it worth it giving this manager another 200m again"?

How much talent left the club since Ole joined? What was the initial investment the club made in those players? Values completely from memory but: Fellaini (£27m), Herrera (£28m), Lukaku (£65m), Sanchez (whatever Mkhitaryan cost £30m?), Smalling (£7m), Darmian (£13m), Valencia (£15m), Rojo (£16m), Young (£17m).

That's £200m worth of investment out too. That the club got bugger all fees in for those players is irrelevant from Ole's perspective. That's the turnover of talent Ole has had to navigate and there was a lot more out than in before January.

The squad turnover was deemed necessary to correct the culture of the club and you can see the difference in application and togetherness since. But when you remove that many senior players, the quality is bound to drop.

They've now got to build that quality back up to have a deep enough squad to compete.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

One game left from another disastrous season under Ole

 

[montpelier]

No it hasn’t come down to 1 game. It’s come down to 38 games which if we don’t get the result on Sunday he’s failed at.

There's an obvious reason he won't (shouldn't?) be judged over the 38 game season - and it doesnt even involve any football.

 

[montpelier]

He already has 3 new signings for next season. Pogba, Bruno, Greenwood.

We ought to do loads better. Like now compared to this season to the Burnley game, you could say.

We were so bad up to that Burnley game. How anyone thought we were getting into the Top 4 with that team, I have no idea.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

How much talent left the club since Ole joined? What was the initial investment the club made in those players? Values completely from memory but: Fellaini (£27m), Herrera (£28m), Lukaku (£65m), Sanchez (whatever Mkhitaryan cost £30m?), Smalling (£7m), Darmian (£13m), Valencia (£15m), Rojo (£16m), Young (£17m).

That's £200m worth of investment out too. That the club got bugger all fees in for those players is irrelevant from Ole's perspective. That's the turnover of talent Ole has had to navigate and there was a lot more out than in before January.

The squad turnover was deemed necessary to correct the culture of the club and you can see the difference in application and togetherness since. But when you remove that many senior players, the quality is bound to drop.

They've now got to build that quality back up to have a deep enough squad to compete.

Fair point. But let's say we went into this season with those players we sold instead of the new ones we have now. Do you think we would have secured top 4 by now?

 

[POF]

Fair point. But let's say we went into this season with those players we sold instead of the new ones we have now. Do you think we would have secured top 4 by now?

It's hard to tell. With the same injuries they had this season, probably not.

But the fact remains that those changes were for the long term benefit of the club and the culture within the playing group.

When Lukaku left late in the window and wasn't replaced, what other manager would be happy with that for the long term benefit of the club? Wait to get "the right player" in January?

For a LVG or Jose, they want to get players in, even if they're low down "the list". For that reason it's unfair to judge Ole on the season as a whole. The attack pre January was the weakest United has had since the days of Peter Davenport.

 

[The Red Thinker]

This thread title hasn't aged well.

I mean if 3rd or 4th is a disaster, considering where we are as a club, then I dare not talk to some people on here.

 

[Rafaeldagold]

This thread title hasn't aged well.

Really? Possibility of 5th, extremely poor performances, a manager who’s looked clueless last few games.

He’s a bang average manager

 

[Keefy18]

It is still the bare minimum. If we don't get in top 4 it would mean we spent almost 200m on a team that came 6th the previous season and moved only to 5th. It would mean we ended up behind Chelsea who lost their best player and had a transfer ban. It would mean we were behind Leceister a team that came 9th the previous season and also lost their best defender to us. Being behind these two teams after almost 200m spent should be considered a bad season. The board would have to ask "is it worth it giving this manager another 200m again"?

Lamps done well to replace Hazard's goals with Abraham's but lets be clear here, he took over a 3rd placed team that won the Europa. Ole took over a team that was in 6th place after Jose was sacked... 11 points behind...guess who? Chelsea.

Since Dec 18, Ole has clearly improved our defence, improved our midfield, vastly improved our attack and has vastly improved the morale from one that was incredibly toxic... And guess what?

We now sit level on points with Chelsea, but ahead on GD.

Incredibly binary to think in terms of money spent alone, there is far more that goes into football management that just spending money.

I want him sacked regardless if we get top 4 or not, but the case could be made to stay if he gets Champions League that’s all.

He’s tactically not good, in game management awful, coaching seems non existent. He’s good at creating a nice atmosphere in the squad but that’s not enough to be United manager. Or it used to not be

Embarrassing.

Yeah lets ignore that we've gone from a boring team that concedes possession and invites pressure on (Jose's set up) to a possession based team or counter attacking side (varies depending on game to game) with arguably one of Europes top attacking trio that's been involved in 88 goals this season.

 

[Cardboard elk]

I want him sacked regardless if we get top 4 or not, but the case could be made to stay if he gets Champions League that’s all.

He’s tactically not good, in game management awful, coaching seems non existent. He’s good at creating a nice atmosphere in the squad but that’s not enough to be United manager. Or it used to not be

Ole haters might talk loud but arguments like these sound just silly.

Ole has proven to be good tactically in my mind. He has done that vs good opponents many times.
He has coached well. The improvement of Martial, Rashford, the emergence and improvement of Greenwood, the style of play and the attacking football. The success of all the young players. All the clean sheets this year. Unbeaten in the league since Jan.

"creating a nice atmosphere" - this is just belitlling Ole and you can do better than this. This shows how little you know about the man, Ole sets demands, he can be ruthless and full of principles. He wants a good atmosphere but he is much more than that.

Ole haters just wait for a dip in form to come out with all this bullshit. But the fact is the improvement in the team is huge, and United top the form table in the PL. If not for all the injuries last autumn, we would already be guaranteed 3rd and more points. With improvements to the squad, bext year will be better, again. Rome was not built in one day.

You are not being truthful or realistic, you are painting it all black where it is NOT.

 

[The Red Thinker]

Really? Possibility of 5th, extremely poor performances, a manager who’s looked clueless last few games.

He’s a bang average manager

Right. Regardless of the last three games, if we end up in the champions league, I couldn't care less how we got there. We were in no position to do it 10 games ago. Now we are. I'm okay with that.

Bang average? Maybe you'd prefer Jose then

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Lamps done well to replace Hazard's goals with Abraham's but lets be clear here, he took over a 3rd placed team that won the Europa. Ole took over a team that was in 6th place after Jose was sacked... 11 points behind...guess who? Chelsea.

Since Dec 18, Ole has clearly improved our defence, improved our midfield, vastly improved our attack and has vastly improved the morale from one that was incredibly toxic... And guess what?

We now sit level on points with Chelsea, but ahead on GD.

Incredibly binary to think in terms of money spent alone, there is far more that goes into football management that just spending money.




Embarrassing.

Yeah lets ignore that we've gone from a boring team that concedes possession and invites pressure on (Jose's set up) to a possession based team or counter attacking side (varies depending on game to game) with arguably one of Europes top attacking trio that's been involved in 88 goals this season.

Did you see us first part of the season & last few games? That was embarrassing. No control whatsoever in those games, no plan. Southampton & West fcking Ham were well in the games & deserved their points.
Ole was saved by the Bruno signing but he won’t last much longer

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Right. Regardless of the last three games, if we end up in the champions league, I couldn't care less how we got there. We were in no position to do it 10 games ago. Now we are. I'm okay with that.

Bang average? Maybe you'd prefer Jose then

And why did we have no chance 10 games ago? Because of our poor poor form under Ole’s management.

And no I don’t want Jose- there are other managers in world football available

 

[Keefy18]

Really? Possibility of 5th, extremely poor performances, a manager who’s looked clueless last few games.

He’s a bang average manager

Newsflash

"Bang average manager" out performs Klopp in same amount of PL games in charge..

So I created this graph pre West Ham Result and its based on their respective opening 57 games in the PL...

I added in Jose's original run in 2004, Fergie's opening 57 games in the PL from 1992 (this is after being at the club 6 years) as well just for comparison.

The only manager in the modern game to out perform him and currently managing still is Pep.

Being behind Peak Fergie and Jose is hardly signs of a "bang average manager".

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Ole haters might talk loud but arguments like these sound just silly.

Ole has proven to be good tactically in my mind. He has done that vs good opponents many times.
He has coached well. The improvement of Martial, Rashford, the emergence and improvement of Greenwood, the style of play and the attacking football. The success of all the young players. All the clean sheets this year. Unbeaten in the league since Jan.

"creating a nice atmosphere" - this is just belitlling Ole and you can do better than this. This shows how little you know about the man, Ole sets demands, he can be ruthless and full of principles. He wants a good atmosphere but he is much more than that.

Ole haters just wait for a dip in form to come out with all this bullshit. But the fact is the improvement in the team is huge, and United top the form table in the PL. If not for all the injuries last autumn, we would already be guaranteed 3rd and more points. With improvements to the squad, bext year will be better, again. Rome was not built in one day.

You are not being truthful or realistic, you are painting it all black where it is NOT.

You’re painting it all rosy when it’s NOT.

There are so so many better managers available for a club our size.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Lamps done well to replace Hazard's goals with Abraham's but lets be clear here, he took over a 3rd placed team that won the Europa. Ole took over a team that was in 6th place after Jose was sacked... 11 points behind...guess who? Chelsea.

Since Dec 18, Ole has clearly improved our defence, improved our midfield, vastly improved our attack and has vastly improved the morale from one that was incredibly toxic... And guess what?

We now sit level on points with Chelsea, but ahead on GD.

Incredibly binary to think in terms of money spent alone, there is far more that goes into football management that just spending money.




Embarrassing.

Yeah lets ignore that we've gone from a boring team that concedes possession and invites pressure on (Jose's set up) to a possession based team or counter attacking side (varies depending on game to game) with arguably one of Europes top attacking trio that's been involved in 88 goals this season.

If we don't get top 4 it's not just Cgelsea we would be behind though. Leceister who were 9th the previous season and sold their best defender to us would also be ahead. I don't see the point bashing Ole now that we are in top 4 though and I'm positive he can keep us there but if we finish this season behind Chelsea and Leceister then you have to question him whether he has done well outside spending money or not

 

[bsCallout]

Why are any of you giving Rafaeldagold the time of day?

 

[Rafaeldagold]

Why are any of you giving Rafaeldagold the time of day?

Because it’s only me & a few others who can see we can do so so much better than Ole as manager.

You can all be sycophants to Ole if you want, go ahead.

 

[Keefy18]

Did you see us first part of the season & last few games? That was embarrassing.

No control whatsoever in those games, no plan. Southampton & West fcking Ham were well in the games & deserved their points.
Ole was saved by the Bruno signing but he won’t last much longer

I do have to wonder what your age is, cause you post like a petulant, stroppy child and your comments aren't befitting one to discuss top level athletic performances.

You do realize there is a period of adjustment for all managers. As I've just show you in the graph, Ole is currently out performing Klopp at the same point (57 PL games for Liverpool), Poch (57 PL games for Spurs) also. The only manager that he is failing to is Pep in reality cause Jose's form after 57 games for United was still lower than what Ole has achieved.

All managers and supposedly ones that you deem better than him he is outperforming. Doesn't really add up does it?

Fatigue and lack of squad depth is the crux of your complaint.

Ole doesn't have the luxury of dropping a Bruno for a KDB, his options are Lingard or Mata. If he drops Pogba in comes a very limited McTominay (and I like the kid) but he is extremely limited and offers little in terms of moving the ball forward or Fred who for all his work rate, falls into the bracket of limited player as well.

We're not perfect, no one is saying we are...

Have we improved as a team, absolutely.

 

[Jeppers7]

Whether he finishes 3rd or 5th, he'll definitely be in charge next season. It's been a great turnaround this season.

From the squad he inherited, it was 3 in, 6 out for the first half of the season. The outs were generally first team regulars or big money players. It left the squad criminally short of depth. The 2 in 2 out in January really got Ole a squad he could work with for the first time this season and his record since has been really good.

There's lots of work to be done and it's vital the club backs him in the market this summer. When your manager only has 14-15 players he's willing to play you have a real issue with depth.

They need at least 2 attacking players, a centre back and a full back to be genuinely competitive next season. 4 or 5 more could go, so lots of work to be done this window. Having an alternative to Bruno is crucial. He's played almost every minute since he's joined the club and he looks shattered.

Agree with all this. Perhaps need a CDM too

 

[SalfordRed18]

Did Ole shag someone you care about @Rafaeldagold ?

 

[bsCallout]

Did Ole shag someone you care about @Rafaeldagold ?

He's here for attention. Don't feed him.

 

[Keefy18]

If we don't get top 4 it's not just Cgelsea we would be behind though. Leceister who were 9th the previous season and sold their best defender to us would also be ahead. I don't see the point bashing Ole now that we are in top 4 though and I'm positive he can keep us there but if we finish this season behind Chelsea and Leceister then you have to question him whether he has done well outside spending money or not

I mention Chelsea as you did highlight them.

There is an extremely weird media narrative being spun about "Super Frankie" and doing so well at Chelsea. He's done alright to good if were honest. He's lost 12 games and whatever happens on Sunday their points total will be less than what they achieved last year.

Leicester, yes they've done brilliantly well for such a small group of players. Gotta remember though even though they lost the likes of Mahrez & Kante, they've proven themselves to be a well ran club in recent years and have a league title victory more recently that we do. They still have quite a few of the players in there that won that title and took on board Evans who is a 3 time PL winner. That kind of experience is invaluable.

I can't see them sustaining the kind of results they've achieved though into next season. It'd be a massive ask, especially with CL Football.

 

[Flexdegea]

Really? Possibility of 5th, extremely poor performances, a manager who’s looked clueless last few games.

He’s a bang average manager

What the hell are you even talking about

You are sounding demented, and to extreme about the manager.

Normally you spot this sort of behaviour, it comes about because the said person has took a stance about a topic, based on a want for another manager early on or an opinion, and are now so entrenched in with it they double and triple down even more.

 

[Carl]

I want him sacked regardless if we get top 4 or not, but the case could be made to stay if he gets Champions League that’s all.

He’s tactically not good, in game management awful, coaching seems non existent. He’s good at creating a nice atmosphere in the squad but that’s not enough to be United manager. Or it used to not be

Jose Mourinho and Louis Van Gaal have failed here. 2 proven winners. There were/are bigger problems at the club than what we see on the field. Ole is the only one of the post Fergie managers that seems to be resolving some of that. Plus there's decent stuff on the pitch too. Thats why I'm happy for him to continue. The side is showing promise, which we haven't had in a long time.

It way well come to pass that he doesn't kick us on next year, in which case there's a stronger argument for moving him on. I think if that happens we're in a miles better place than we were pre Ole though, and a lot of that is down to Ole.

 

[Rajma]

Jose Mourinho and Louis Van Gaal have failed here. 2 proven winners. There were/are bigger problems at the club than what we see on the field. Ole is the only one of the post Fergie managers that seems to be resolving some of that. Plus there's decent stuff on the pitch too. Thats why I'm happy for him to continue. The side is showing promise, which we haven't had in a long time.

It way well come to pass that he doesn't kick us on next year, in which case there's a stronger argument for moving him on. I think if that happens we're in a miles better place than we were pre Ole though, and a lot of that is down to Ole.

They were completely passed it by the time we hired them.

 

[Carl]

They were completely passed it by the time we hired them.

Who's this available, not passed it, world class manager that's going to come in then?

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

Absolutely should get sacked , but he won’t unfortunately.

Champions league was a requirement for Moyes, LVG & Jose. (Rightly so)
But not Ole? Go figure. Our winning mentality is diminishing year on year

What if we miss qualifying for the CL this season, but are in the process of building a team that qualifies for the following 10 years?

My god, how can everything a manager do solely come down to whether he gets top 4. We have been through our fair share of managers with that tactic, and it has set us back several years.

There need to be some nuances when assesing whether we need a new manager. Look at what is going on on the pitch. We are seeing players progressing, young players coming through and in every other match we play exiciting and offensive football. None of these things were happening under Moyes, LVG and Mourinho. How someone can look at this team and the prospect of getting someone like Sancho in next season, and think that aren't going places is beyond me.

If we want to be a part of the top in a sustainable way we have to give the manager time. Especially if there is signs of improvement. Liverpool is packed with winning mentality, but where were they five years ago?

 

[NotoriousISSY]

As a fan, I like to give credit where it's due but I am quite indifferent this time.

A maximum of 66 points practically never gets 3rd, or even 4th in most seasons so on a performance level it's still quite poor by the standards we're looking to get back to.

But, 3rd in the context of the season and the last 7 years, you can't knock it. But it has to be a building block and a foundation, not a one off.

Without Fernandes we'd be 6th at best, but Ole had the balls to go with Greenwood who has been equally important in front of goal after the restart.

Would happily see him given 1 more season to prove his worth, but also wouldn't be disappointed if replaced by a better manager.

 

[Keefy18]

Who's this available, not passed it, world class manager that's going to come in then?

The obvious answers would be Poch & Allegri.

Not that I'm saying rush out and get them. I'd have my doubts about both still if I'm honest.

 

[Sultan]

And why did we have no chance 10 games ago? Because of our poor poor form under Ole’s management.

And no I don’t want Jose- there are other managers in world football available

Getting bored and fed up of you ruining threads with your endless negativity and agenda posting. Keep it up and you're gone!

 

[Cardozo]

Let’s face it, most of the games we’ve dropped points this season weren’t down to tactics. They were due to individual errors or lack of ability in specific areas of the pitch (RW, CM & CB). We’ve actually looked pretty solid against top teams and more recently been able to unpick compact defences. Things are looking up. It’s no longer a 2 horse race this league...

 

[Flexdegea]

Getting bored and fed up of you ruining threads with your endless negativity and agenda posting. Keep it up and you're gone!

I dont post that much. But this guy is really hard to read, he is literally in every thread dominating them with massive hard on for the manager.

Fair enough we need debate but hes coming across too entrenched, almost trollish.

 

[Salt Bailly]

I think I've cracked it: he's a closet Bayern fan.

The ghost of May 1999 still haunts...