Eight games away from another disastrous season under Ole

[Leftback99]

Just as a reminder. Our table looked like the following after 17 games this season. Not trying to imply anything, just merely point out the fact that people become very lenient when it comes to Ole, and certainly we had worse moments than that this season.

Position	Club	Played	Won	Drew	Lost	Pts	Goals For	Goals Against	Clean Sheets
6th​	United​	17​	6​	7​	4​	25​	26​	20​	2​

I'd bet if you go back to around that time there are loads of posts bleating on about coaching, patterns of play and how great Brenden Rodgers is. There will be some gold to dig out.

All that has really changed is the quality of players at Ole's disposal, something that many of us could see was the main issue all along and had the patience to wait to see how it would look. So far it's promising.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I love the Ole Out brigade, they are duel member with the anti British brigade.

So bitter and twisted, that they can’t just sit back and watch some good football.

we have come on immensely as a football club over the past 18 months.

no longer will we see the likes of Lukuku, Di Maria, Sanchez or Schweinsteiger (the only one I have any respect for out of those four) come to our club to leach us for money.

We are finally getting our identity back as a club who brings in hungry, passionate players augmented by our youth system.

Ole will be at OT next season.

If taking our time to get the foundations right for success means we lose some on the non match going fans - it’s no loss.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Agree completely. It was Fergie's ability to change the shape of his team that allowed him to have such longevity at the top. He might not have been an innovator trying new things all the time but he was able to adapt to subtle changes in how modern football kept evolving. I remember he ditched the 4-4-2 we had such joy with because of how we were overrun by Real Madrid at Old Trafford in 2000. He said at one stage Madrid only had one midfielder and it looked as if they were playing a different type of sport to us altogether because of their movement. We moved then to a 4-5-1/ 4-3-3 before arriving at 4-2-3-1. He was also smart enough to bring in coaching staff who were able to get the players to adapt as well. There was so much more to Fergie than being a shouty Scottish man manager.

Yep, one example that always springs to mind was a game away to Rome where we were proper under the cosh, and he switched us from 433 to 442 and it changed the entire match and we won comfortably.

 

[RkkMan]

I don't particularly disagree that the feeling is better, but I would have said the same for every manager except Moyes (and even then, there was some tiny shiny periods). It looked that we were back when we demolished City, Liverpool and Spurs with Van Gaal, or when we won 2 cups with Mourinho, or last year for example when we went into that crazy series of wins. But it did not last long.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the match and we looked great. But honestly, we are on course for our worst ever season in EPL (in terms of points). Things are not great at all.


I didn't ever mention sacking Ole. I am just saying that we are 37 points off top the table, on same points as mighty Wolves and 6 points below Leicester City. Doing mental gymnastics that this season (league-wise) has been anything short of total disaster is delusional.



I don't see how we are really back on track, but I hope you are right. Every captain we had since Keano except Young and Valencia were more real leaders than Maguire (Neville, Giggs, Rio, Vida, Evra, Rooney), I rated Brown and Rafael higher than AWB, I think that James is meh, and I agree about Bruno. I don't think those 4 players were anywhere near 200m we paid for.

How are things not "great at all"?? We have a core of young players with very good potential(Williams, Greenwood, AWB etc) or top players about to hit their prime/take their game to the next level(Rashford/Martial/Pogba/Bruno/Maguire etc)who will be here for the long haul, a more cohesive style of play than previous years and actual creativity in midfield which was scarce in Fergie`s latter years. We are also in the run for 2 cups(FA Cup and EL) and with an easier set of fixtures than the teams we are battling for top 4 with with a FULLY FIT squad something we have not had since the season started. Every reason to look forward to the last stretch of the season.

Man City are 24 points behind LFC despite all the millions they`ve spent even Chelsea are over 30 points behind LFC but for a reason Lampard is treated like the best English manager to ever grace the game. We are still a team in transition with potential to improve you should cut Ole and the team a little slack. Its not ideal Wolves/Leicester are part of the chasing pack but it shows how competitive the PL is nowadays if we finish in a CL place it should not be a worry especially cause most of those teams may not replicate their PL performances next season with more competitive games.

We aren`t fully back on track but you are looking at the glass half empty if you think there are no signs of improvement on the pitch that can get even better with time and more spending in the market. I won`t argue over the captains as you are right. Brown was top class but he was in his prime AWB is just 22 his ceiling is higher and with his attacking game improving every chance he hits those levels. He has more assists than Walker, Ricardo Pereira, Chilwell and Walker who are all supposed "attacking" fullbacks. Defensively he`s MILES better than Rafael was attacking wise he can be better. Say what you want about Maguire but we have the 2nd highest CS in Europe, joint 2nd for least goals conceded in the league and DDG needs only 2 cleansheets to be the Golden Boot favorite. Despite his flaws he has improved our defence in a way Smalling(who needed a prime DDG behind him) never could with much better ability on the ball.

 

[Deery]

Improvement is the expectation .. If we get top 4 then amazing if we don't then as long as we can improve again in the summer then it's all good .
The abuse Ole gets on here from some is embarrassing. For some they just can't give the man any credit at all but I've stated lots that as long as we continue playing decent football and we keep improving United's match going fans won't turn on Ole

Yeah, I suppose I agree with that too.

The upturn in results have been quite something since Bruno arrival. It was great to see MOTD last night and watch 4 players busting a gut getting into the box to score, it looked similar to a Fergie side which is only a good thing.

 

[Grande]

Maybe they should start giving the Title to whoemever plays the most beautiful football, kinda like ... I don't know... beauty peagant?

I remember when King Eric, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo9 and Luis Figo walked around in commercials stating ‘Joga Bonito’, and later in the evening they would sip cocktails, play beach football and top it with getting shloshed on vodka in the sauna.

 

[EngimaMK]

So I should have compared us to bottom 5? Or La Liga teams? Or what?

I'll rephrase it, as comparing it to our direct opponents is somehow wrong according to Sky1981.

We have the 2nd worst, +9.4 xPts in the league games, only Watford has +10.1. If you are using the outdated understat values we're at +8.51, Watford +10.85.

Fun fact: if luck wasn't a factor, we'd be 6 points behind "all-time best" Liverpool

Fecking Xpts stats geek

Pathetic...

 

[EngimaMK]

I didn’t say I thought we would be challenging for the title this season but after £150m spent in the summer I think a lot of fans were expecting to be comfortably in the top 4.

I also didn’t say I’d sack Ole right now and even said I think he will be manager next season whatever happens.

But I don’t think he is the manager to take us to a title or a UCL. As for saying how do you know another manager wouldn’t do better? Well how do you know they wouldn’t?
Ole has done a lot of good work and laid down a fairly solid base for whoever comes after him, I just don’t see him being our man to take us to the top again.
Don’t really want to knock him cause he’s done well, that’s why I didn’t want to turn this into an Ole inn/Ole out thread..

The idiot that started this thread MADE it as an Ole in/out thread. I would worry about turning into one now.

 

[MinoUTD]

Progress finally become a bit obvious, I don't know how the OB can't see that. Ole can bring good players in, he has a good eye for what he needs exactly. Yes there's a room for improvement but IMO we can really build on from this season, only couple of addtition would do.

 

[Grande]

Yes, and you don’t think the majority of fans thought that wasn’t acceptable to finish second or third. If we’re giving Ole 5 years before any success then it’s going to be a bleak few years.

I can see this team is getting better, but we’re still a fair bit away from the top 4

I think the majority of fans, then as now, wanted us to get better. I also remember a minority of the fans the, each time, argued that it was not a transition, it was a decline, and that we should sack Ferguson and sell Ince/Giggs/Beckham/Ronaldo. This minority, whom we in the pale cast of afterthought can dub ‘the superficial knee-jerk idiots‘ (SKI), would vehemently insist that even signs of progress were at beat fals dawns, and in fact a problem rather than a benefit, as it would only play into the hand of the complacent sentimentalists who didn’t see that we needed to get rid of Ferguson and by a new team snappishly.

 

[Tom Cato]

I don't particularly disagree that the feeling is better, but I would have said the same for every manager except Moyes (and even then, there was some tiny shiny periods). It looked that we were back when we demolished City, Liverpool and Spurs with Van Gaal, or when we won 2 cups with Mourinho, or last year for example when we went into that crazy series of wins. But it did not last long.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the match and we looked great. But honestly, we are on course for our worst ever season in EPL (in terms of points). Things are not great at all.


I didn't ever mention sacking Ole. I am just saying that we are 37 points off top the table, on same points as mighty Wolves and 6 points below Leicester City. Doing mental gymnastics that this season (league-wise) has been anything short of total disaster is delusional.



I don't see how we are really back on track, but I hope you are right. Every captain we had since Keano except Young and Valencia were more real leaders than Maguire (Neville, Giggs, Rio, Vida, Evra, Rooney), I rated Brown and Rafael higher than AWB, I think that James is meh, and I agree about Bruno. I don't think those 4 players were anywhere near 200m we paid for.

2020 Manchester United competes for the PL trophy, simple as that. Rafael and Brown were good players in their own right but AWB is the best defensive rightback in the league, and he's taken big steps in his offensive game. Assist again last night. He's only 22, literally a developing player, he's the same age as marcus rashford

 

[georgipep]

2020 Manchester United competes for the PL trophy, simple as that. Rafael and Brown were good players in their own right but AWB is the best defensive rightback in the league, and he's taken big steps in his offensive game. Assist again last night. He's only 22, literally a developing player, he's the same age as marcus rashford

100% this!

If we look at results since matchday 24 (1st of Jan) until now, we're joint-second in the league (albeit with City haven't yet played their 8th game since):

Position	Team	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Goals	Points
1.	Liverpool	8	6	1	1	16-7	19
2.	Man City	7	5	0	2	12-4	15
3.	Man Utd	8	4	3	1	12-4	15
4.	Wolves	8	4	3	1	10-4	15
5.	Tottenham	8	4	2	2	14-10	14
6.	Chelsea	7	3	3	1	14-10	12
7.	Burnley	7	3	3	1	8-7	12
8.	Everton	8	3	3	2	12-13	12
9.	Crystal Palace	8	4	0	4	6-10	12
10.	Arsenal	7	3	2	2	11-9	11
11.	Sheff Utd	8	3	2	3	5-9	11
12.	Leicester	8	2	4	2	11-6	10
13.	Newcastle	8	2	4	2	7-8	10
14.	Southampton	7	3	0	4	9-10	9
15.	Brighton	8	1	5	2	8-10	8
16.	Bournemouth	8	2	1	5	9-14	7
17.	Watford	7	1	2	4	8-11	5
18.	Aston Villa	8	1	2	5	7-15	5
19.	West Ham	8	1	1	6	8-18	4
20.	Norwich	8	1	1	6	2-11	4

Off-topic but impressive stuff from Burnley, I keep forgetting about their incredible performance and results.

 

[GaryLifo]

You ruined a good post by slagging SAFs tactical ability. He was a fecking genius.

I didn't slag anything. I said he wasn't the greatest tactician, i.e. there were better tactical managers than him. Not being the greatest at one specific thing does not mean you are the worst at that thing.

You have created your own straw man to knock down here. I watched United throughout Ferguson's entire 28 year United career and this is my personal view - that he was a better man manager than he was a tactician. At no point did I say he was useless at tactics.

 

[lysglimt]

I didn't slag anything. I said he wasn't the greatest tactician, i.e. there were better tactical managers than him. Not being the greatest at one specific thing does not mean you are the worst at that thing.

You have created your own straw man to knock down here. I watched United throughout Ferguson's entire 28 year United career and this is my personal view - that he was a better man manager than he was a tactician. At no point did I say he was useless at tactics.

Agree with you - he was a very good tactician, but his biggest strength was that he could get every player to perform to the max in every position, and in every game.

 

[el3mel]

The first half of the season was absolute trash as @Revan said but tbf we have been much better ever since Bruno signed and I'm sure we'll do well in the last 7 matches as I said yesterday in this thread, and if we did and finished top 4 it can be considered a decent season then.

 

[Giggsy13]

I think for this season to be deemed a success, we need to win out our remaining games, which could conceivably get us to 3rd with 70 points. It’s certainly doable and we have a relatively easy run in compared to the teams around us.

 

[RedSky]

I actually blame the club for our bad 1st half of the season as they clearly needed to back Ole more in the Summer. There were many threads at the end of the window concerned that we'd sold Lukaku and not brought in a new striker and that ultimately ended up being a big issue. On top of that we were a little unfortunate that our creative hub got a long term injury and yet we were chasing Bruno in the Summer, if we had just stretched the budget a little more and got Bruno in the Summer then perhaps we'd be in a far better position. The lesson that has been learnt is that Ole is targetting the right players, the club need to back him more.

Signing Bruno certainly gave the club a boost, but our defense also began to be more settled. They deserve as much credit as Bruno imo.

 

[Zen86]

I'd bet if you go back to around that time there are loads of posts bleating on about coaching, patterns of play and how great Brenden Rodgers is. There will be some gold to dig out.

All that has really changed is the quality of players at Ole's disposal, something that many of us could see was the main issue all along and had the patience to wait to see how it would look. So far it's promising.

Oh absolutely. A lot of us knew full well that we were missing a creative player to unlock the kinds of defences we’d been struggling against.

 

[Gum_gum]

Can I have some of what you're on?

This post is hilarious, do you really believe that Young is better than Shaw and Smalling better than Maguire? As for Sanchez being better than james,

Perhaps you should actually try watching some games, you will see just how wrong you are. Or is it just irrational Ole hate?

What is Shaw better at than Young?

I do believe Smalling is better than Maguire, yes. I thought that before he went on loan. But that's irrelevant because he's definitely better than every other option we have.

Sanchez better than James is laughable??? Why?

I have watched games mate, that's how I kno' we've not been higher than fifth pretty much all season. If you think that's acceptable that's on you

 

[Withnail]

What is Shaw better at than Young?

I do believe Smalling is better than Maguire, yes. I thought that before he went on loan. But that's irrelevant because he's definitely better than every other option we have.

Sanchez better than James is laughable??? Why?

I have watched games mate, that's how I kno' we've not been higher than fifth pretty much all season. If you think that's acceptable that's on you

Not going to get into the Maguire thing as that's arguable.

But are you actually saying that the Sanchez and Young of today would be more effective in this United team than James and Shaw?

 

[imamuppet]

I was so happy about the game, the first thing I did to bring me down a notch was to go in here, look for the most miserable thread to visit and camp myself in it, refreshing the page every single minute until all the happiness I got from the game got drained out of me. Now I am back in my zone, comfortable in misery and it gives me the confidence to speak up. Hope I'm not alone. Peace.

well played, well played

I've supported Ole through thick and thin. I'm entitled to call out those who insulted him and wanted him sacked.

The fecking twats

I feel you bro, load and clear



Unfortunately there is no cure to a lack of inteligence and combined with an elitist self absorbing arrogant entitlement its an embarassment that some of these peeps associate themselves with our beloved team and to make matters worse, they cannot even make an allowance for Ole, in that he is one of our own and should be granted the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to mould the team into one that represents all the values we have come to expect from a Manchester United team

 

[Atheist]

Comparing points total across seasons doesn't make much sense IMO. We got more points in 2011/12 when we were 2nd than when we won the treble. The context is important. We were terrible for the large parts of the first half of the season but we've been on a sustained good run now. If we can win a trophy this season (FA Cup), I'd say we had an okay season (maybe even good if you'd asked me a few months ago).

 

[Tel074]

What is Shaw better at than Young?

I do believe Smalling is better than Maguire, yes. I thought that before he went on loan. But that's irrelevant because he's definitely better than every other option we have.

Sanchez better than James is laughable??? Why?

I have watched games mate, that's how I kno' we've not been higher than fifth pretty much all season. If you think that's acceptable that's on you

You are having a laugh . Smalling is better than Maguire ? Give your head a wobble . I didn't want Smalling to leave on loan but to suggest that is ridiculous. Also for all his faults Shaw is a way better left fullback than Young .
United are improving under Ole and hopefully we get top 4 but if not then onto next season and hopefully the continual improvement will see us comfortably in the top 4

 

[el3mel]

You are having a laugh . Smalling is better than Maguire ? Give your head a wobble . I didn't want Smalling to leave on loan but to suggest that is ridiculous. Also for all his faults Shaw is a way better left fullback than Young .
United are improving under Ole and hopefully we get top 4 but if not then onto next season and hopefully the continual improvement will see us comfortably in the top 4

It's ridiculous to talk about top 4 as hopeful achievement next season considering how much money we have put into the squad and the quality of players currently present. This season alright but next season it should be a title challenge.

 

[Tel074]

It's ridiculous to talk about top 4 as hopeful achievement next season considering how much money we have put into the squad and the quality of players currently present. This season alright but next season it should be a title challenge.

A title challenge when we see currently 37 points behind the champions? I think we need to get realistic and know that next season a comfortable top 4 finish is progress.

 

[el3mel]

A title challenge when we see currently 37 points behind the champions? I think we need to get realistic and know that next season a comfortable top 4 finish is progress.

Liverpool were 4th and 25 points away from City in 2018. Next season they challenged them for the league, got over 95 points and finished second with one point gap so what ? This season means feck all when it comes to a new season. With the quality we have currently in main lineup and the players we'll still sign, yes we should expect a title challenge or something very close to it.

 

[James Peril]

Even if we don't get UCL football for next season this season has been far from disastrous for me, probably been my most enjoyable season post Fergie

Each to their own. We’ve never been in the top 4, we’ve scored less than 50 goals and won 13 out of 31 games, simply disasterous for this club. On top of that, Liverpool just won the league. We all have our preferences, some men likes watching their wives getting shagged by other guys, which this season is the equivilant of. Two years ago we won 26 games, scored more goals and won a trophy - I liked that better. And Livetpool didn’t win the league, and lost the CL final to Madrid.

A pro manager could get this squad going next season, OGS never will.

 

[JB08]

Liverpool were 4th and 25 points away from City in 2018. Next season they challenged them for the league, got over 95 points and finished second with one point gap so what ? This season means feck all when it comes to a new season. With the quality we have currently in main lineup and the players we'll still sign, yes we should expect a title challenge or something very close to it.

They had/have a great manager in charge with a track record of winning the Bundesliga and reaching the Champions League final with Dortmund. That's a massive difference between us and them.

 

[always_hoping]

Another disastrous season under Ole? Newsflash this is Oles first full season as he only got half of season last year.

Was football before the Premier League, matter of fact in a 38 game season under Ferguson in 1991 United finish the league season on 59 points yet it was from far a disastrous season.

As for Ole lucky.. oh yeah so lucky that a number of key players missed large chunks of the season due to injury and awful lucky to working beside a clueless Woodward whom left it until January to sign Bruno when Ole wanted him in the summer.

 

[JMack1234]

I've had lots of wobbles about Ole.

However, maybe this is me being a utopian, but I do feel that something has clicked at United under Ole. I look at the team and see it as a good, young, hungry team, that I look forward to watching. We're not going to be winning the league anytime soon but I have hope that something is coming together.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Our finishes before this year were 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th, 2nd, 6th, so two top four finishes in six seasons. Last year we were 32 points off the title. This season we're 37 points behind. So lets be realistic about where our squad is right now. We're not a really a top four team and certainly not a title challenging team. Whether we wish it different or not, thats where United are right now.

Not only that, we're an era of much carefully assembled teams. City's team was being assembled to a template long before Pep actually arrived. It took Klopp 3 full seasons before his team hit their stride, 5 to actually win the league. Both spent a lot of money for sure, but they did so with a very clear vision in mind and did it over several years. That's just how football is right now. Its so tactical, with such high levels of fitness required and so much money in the hands of even mid-table teams, the days of being able to use money to blitz away any problems are long gone. Whoever the manager is, it'll take several seasons to build a new team, so genuine transitional seasons are inevitable. What matter is whether we're improving year on year to a clear vision, or going backwards. If we're on the way up, then we just have to be patient and accept it takes time. If we're not, well, then the manager is failing and should probably go.

So Chelsea and Leicester have better squads than us?

 

[EwanI Ted]

So Chelsea and Leicester have better squads than us?

I was talking about our performances over six seasons. Are you asking about whether they’re better this season, or over that time?

 

[Gum_gum]

You are having a laugh . Smalling is better than Maguire ? Give your head a wobble . I didn't want Smalling to leave on loan but to suggest that is ridiculous. Also for all his faults Shaw is a way better left fullback than Young .
United are improving under Ole and hopefully we get top 4 but if not then onto next season and hopefully the continual improvement will see us comfortably in the top 4

Maguire is better on the ball than Smalling and that's it. Everything else is either tied or in Smallings favour. But again, its irrelevant because Smalling is better than our other options.

What can Shaw do better than Young? The answer is nothin'

Improvin' by what metric? How are we improvin'? Please do not say "dressing room atmosphere"

Also, ambiguous 'attacking football' won't count it.

 

[Tel074]

Liverpool were 4th and 25 points away from City in 2018. Next season they challenged them for the league, got over 95 points and finished second with one point gap so what ? This season means feck all when it comes to a new season. With the quality we have currently in main lineup and the players we'll still sign, yes we should expect a title challenge or something very close to it.

In my opinion we are still maybe 4 first team players away from that challenge. Like I said before a comfortable top 4 finish next season would be progression I can't see us being a challenge for the title but let's hope I'm wrong

 

[Withnail]

Liverpool were 4th and 25 points away from City in 2018. Next season they challenged them for the league, got over 95 points and finished second with one point gap so what ? This season means feck all when it comes to a new season. With the quality we have currently in main lineup and the players we'll still sign, yes we should expect a title challenge or something very close to it.

Weren't you one of the ones who thought we'd get relegated this season?

100% wasn't it?

Now you're expecting a title challenge?

Is there any balance with you at all?

 

[Tel074]

Maguire is better on the ball than Smalling and that's it. Everything else is either tied or in Smallings favour. But again, its irrelevant because Smalling is better than our other options.

What can Shaw do better than Young? The answer is nothin'

Improvin' by what metric? How are we improvin'? Please do not say "dressing room atmosphere"

Also, ambiguous 'attacking football' won't count it.

If you can't see we are improving then you just don't want to see it .

 

[Craig Ward]

In my opinion we are still maybe 4 first team players away from that challenge. Like I said before a comfortable top 4 finish next season would be progression I can't see us being a challenge for the title but let's hope I'm wrong

Where do you see 4 new first teamers coming in?

I dont think we are that far away from having a very good squad.

Ole has worked hard at re-shaping the entire squad and still has lots of players who dont have a long term future here.

With the squad we have now, we should be higher up the league but this season was always going to be tough with the outgoings and injuries. We've relied on youth and they'll only get better the more they play.

It's a really exciting time for us.

I think the possibility of Sancho coming to us is an absolute game changer. He transforms us.

Each window Ole has moved players on and that needs to continue.
Sanchez/Smalling/Rojo = If we can make them loans into permanent deals away that would be perfect.
Jones/Lingard = If we can sell them that would be perfect as neither have a future here.

If we can bring in Sancho/Grealish/DM (Zakaria?) then thats a perfect window for me.

If Ole can ship some "deadwood" and bring in better quality then we will only get better

 

[RashysTekkers]

Maguire is better on the ball than Smalling and that's it. Everything else is either tied or in Smallings favour. But again, its irrelevant because Smalling is better than our other options.

What can Shaw do better than Young? The answer is nothin'

Improvin' by what metric? How are we improvin'? Please do not say "dressing room atmosphere"

Also, ambiguous 'attacking football' won't count it.

This statement is just pure bollocks. Either you dont watch our games, or you just have an agenda.

 

[devilish]

It’s a rebuild project, there are no quick fixes. This has been talked about to death but Liverpool were finishing down the table before it all clicked. For me this team looks a lot better than it has for years and years, plus they’re young enough to build and develop together. Key also is that Pogba hasn’t played all season and Bruno only just joined, two players that will greatly help us break down those stubborn defensive teams. So let’s at least allow this team to gel and improve further.

Blowing 130m on 2 defenders with zero creativity skills when we had a midfield that was devoid of creativity was silly. I think that Ole should remain if he somehow makes it the CL qualifications. However he's one hell of a lucky man

 

[gorky_utd]

Anybody thinks rest 7 games in the league is absolutely crucial in judging ole and this squad? If the team wins all of them then it will really start to look good for next season.