What's going on with the fella Leon we bought from Paraguay last summer, the tank? Loan next year? He hasn't done much in the under 23s so far really has he?
El Hadji Malick Diouf
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
Fullbacks are defenders first I agree. Though I'd like us to be a threat going forward, you can see how much help having a Hakimi and Mendes is for PSG.
Dani Alves and Jordi Alba were fine.
Patrice Evra and Rafael too.
Yup I think in a great team it makes the difference. But when your team isnt so good, it might not work out as well and your attacking fullback might do more defending than you'd want to see out of him rather than attacking. For example if we just take Hakimi or Mendes out of PSG and put them in our team, I think you'd agree that they'd have to defend more and probably wouldnt look as good going forward.
I still think 1 is fine. But I'll be bemused if our only addition to the defence is someone who is really good going forward but worse than our fullbacks defensively as our defensive record is a problem. I think some good examples are players like Pedro Porro or maybe even Yan Couto - 2 players who were on City's books, they sent them out on loan and then sold them on. I think if they played for Barcelona, PSG or our title winning teams of the past they'd be good attacking fullbacks. But because they're at Spurs and Dortmund they look quite average. Couto might be a stretch given his team are 2nd and not struggling but 8 assists for Girona shows he had something in attack last year. Just 2 assists this year, less than Dalot and Dorgu who both have 3. Same with Porro just 2 after 6 last season.
It depends what you're talking about. Performances hes better. Dealing with attackers hes better. Assists hes better. Yes Kerkez looks more technical on the ball. Thats the only way it works out in his favour this season
Hakimi is nailed on as an all-time great fullback; Mendes just needs a few more years at his current level to follow. The two of them might be aspirational, but that level is not at all realistic.
I can see you're listing top quality fullbacks; that kind of quality is very few and far between in any league not just the PL.
I actually rate Pedro Porro. But I think I'd have Kayode and Alex Jimenez now. the left back is tough to pick though. The Davide Bartesaghi seems a good profile, but not watched him too much.Adrien Truffert just seems decent but nothing that screams must buy.. maybe needs another season at Bournemouth.
There're couple decent players that could reach those levels. I'd maybe focus on other positions though. Malick Diouf is too raw, not sure he is the answer.
I didn't mention Dennis Irwin and Gary Neville because they were good at defending compared to the others I mentioned.Cafu and Javier Zanetti too. or Ashley Cole.
I don't think you're really taking on board how far beyond the norm either of them is. As far as current FB's go, the two of them are freaks; shooting stars. It's just unbelievable PSG have them in tandem.
We'd be delighted with 2 fullbacks with half their game.
I am not saying we sign fullbacks that're close in level to Hakimi and Mendes - because they don't exist. I am just saying I like/prefer attack-minded fullbacks like them.
Even Barcelona brought back Joao Cancelo because really not many attacking fullbacks around these days.
I know you are being hyperbolic and I have seen this kind of sentiment several times before , but the thing we won't be delighted with fullbacks with half their games because the players with half their games would barely make it to top flight football let alone be good enough for United.
If West Ham stay up then you’d imagine Diouf would cost the same as Lewis Hall which for me isn’t even a comparison as Hall is miles better, seen in a few places that Newcastle need to sell players and selling Hall would allow them to at least keep Guimares so Hall over Diouf for me.
I like Kayode but Cunha made absolute mincemeat of Jimenez. He looked terrified whenever he ran at him.
Porro is decent, and a player I’d have liked if we’d carried on with wing backs as I think that’s what he essentially is. However, as a right back, he’s not a good enough defender and he’s real hothead too.
Yeah, there are a few clubs that will need a fullback this summer and there isn't a lot of options if you look from within. If United are trying to get someone like Diouf then you'd probably find better value on the continent.
Good crosser, but not sure about his overall game. Stats aren’t suggesting anything that contradicts the eye test either. At this stage, it’s unclear whether we’re signing a LB to rotate with Dorgu, or if we’re looking for a starting LB (in which case we should at least be looking at Hall). To be honest, there shouldn’t be a distinction. Either way, we should be aiming for top quality.
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Fair, sorry to young Harry. My point is we don't really know if he's ever going to be at the level we need, and our investment should be in someone who's guaranteed to be taking over from Shaw from 27/28 onwards.
I think that Patrick Dorgu has shown he is better suited to playing further up the pitch. If required, then yes, can cover at LB and even RM as an emergency but looking ahead, his best position is probably more suited to be playing as a LM.
Shaw needs to be spelled - at the very least - possibly upgraded upon if the funds allow it. An extra LB, such as Diouf, is a necessity. Overall, it has been a fairly decent season from Shaw but his injury history and the demands of all of those potential extra games means United must strengthen the LB position and I don't believe that I am alone in thinking that the likes of Diego Leon and Harry Amass are not ready for that big step up yet.
Amass and Leon aren’t even in the conversation for me. Both would benefit from loans next season
"What's required" and you name the 2 best fullbacks in the world
There is "how far we are from the dream players", but "what is required" is far below that. It's not realistic to have the best in the world in every position.
Couldnt deal seeing those ears every match so its a no from me.
As modern day of a left back you can probably get. Definitely do need width on the Old Trafford pitch that the likes of Young/Valencia used to provide.
He’s got a great left peg delivery which will benefit the likes of Šeško and Mbeumo.
If the price is right.. I’m all for it.
If the price is right.. I’m all for it.
I would hope he's not suggesting the standard is those two, but it should be the aspiration. The gulf is too big in what we have in the full back position, they don't contribute enough offensively, be that width, runs in behind, crossing or build up. To Dalot's credit, he tucks in and gets involved a lot and will shoot every now and again."What's required" and you name the 2 best fullbacks in the world
There is "how far we are from the dream players", but "what is required" is far below that. It's not realistic to have the best in the world in every position.
Don’t we all!
I know what you’re saying. Finding those players who can attack and actually defend is the challenge. You’d hope we cast our net to the best of each division that has viable targets.
I don’t agree with that. Hakimi’s peers are Cafu and the like, and the question is how close can he get to them by the time he hangs them up. Mendes is heading that way of becoming a true great at LB; his peers will then be the best of each generation.
If we go by levels, I’d say:
- All-Time
- World Class
- League Elite
- Very good
So by those metrics, half the player to Hakimi is still a likely league elite. He’s peerless as things stand, so someone with elements of his game, but obviously not the full package would be a massive improvement on what we have. I’d be very happy with that, personally.
Wholeheartedly agree. Better for less.
That's fair enough.
I didn't watch that game. But I remember Cunha running through our whole defence(centrally too) once when at Wolves, he has that in him.
There're a lot of decent right backs around though, a lot more than left backs.
So winning the League or Champions League isn't "realistic" for Manchester United?"What's required" and you name the 2 best fullbacks in the world
There is "how far we are from the dream players", but "what is required" is far below that. It's not realistic to have the best in the world in every position.
For a club our size and with the revenue, it's absolutely realistic.
We did not have the team we had in 1999 or 2008 without buying some of the world's best players or top talent.
We've all seen with Bayern, PSG and even Arsenal that to be the best you have to have top players that are hungry to win.
Or would you rather INEOS and the Glazers work to be average for the next 5 years?
Winning the league or CL doesn't require best in the world in all positions. You can't say "the standard required is best in the world". You want a team that can compete with the best in time, but we have been a Europa League team for a decade. It takes time to move through the tiers, it takes time to transform your squad. We just spent 200m on a new front 3, but you could look at the gap between Mbeumo and Cunha vs Kvara, Lamine Yamal, Messi, Ronaldo, Dembele etc. We aren't getting those players, we can't say Ballon D'Or is the standard as much as we would want to eventually have some at that level.
We can win the title and compete for the CL without Hakimi and Nuno Mendes level full backs. Just like Bayern are doing with Laimer and Stanišić as their fullbacks basically. You do need some world class players, but your team isn't going to have them in every position.
Sure it’s possible but not straight away. We have a small squad that needs built out. We have the matter of who our permanent manager and coaching staff will be. We don’t have infinite money.
This is a signing that would just add a body to the squad, it won't improve it. So for the money that's a no.
He gave away the pen after being done for cleverness by Cunha and then got mercy-subbed on the hour.
Tbf, I don’t watch Bournemouth regularly, but he was torn to shreds that night.
Jimenez has some speed and can be good going forward but he's not that good defensively. Hes very young at just 20 and Bournemouth only completed his permanent signing a 5 and a half year deal in Feb 3 months ago. So it would be very unlikely that they'll have any interest selling him unless you offer double his worth. 5 and a half years is plenty of time for him to be twice as good and to sell him when theres a bidding war. So yeah I'd give him a 90% chance of staying at Bournemouth this summer and leaving next summer at the earliest
Is Balde a regular for Barcelona? He's rapid and a good dribbler. Id like someone like him at LB.
Obviously Lewis Hall would be great, and apparently he's a boyhood Utd fan.
It would be good for Utd to find a long term successor to Luke Shaw and get rid of him next summer.
Obviously Lewis Hall would be great, and apparently he's a boyhood Utd fan.
It would be good for Utd to find a long term successor to Luke Shaw and get rid of him next summer.
Become something of a crock. Barca have got a real hard on for running talented young players into the ground and knackering them. Did the same with Pedri and Gavi too.
Yes, Newcastle United.
Massive blunder from Diouf on Brentford's goal.
He's not it.
He's not it.
Exceptional cross for from him for WH's equaliser (that may be VAR disallowed).
Edit: yep disallowed
Edit: yep disallowed
Brilliant free kick for the Mavrapanos offside goal.
The new Roberto Carlos.
The new Roberto Carlos.
Hmm..
He can't defend.