Elliot Anderson | Athletic: United's main target

Teja said:
I think Mainoo, Tonali would work fine as a double pivot. What we need primarily is legs and passing from whoever partners Mainoo. If we get a pure sitter like a Matic or Wharton and try to run a Sitter, Mainoo and Bruno midfield, I don't think there's enough legs in that.

Ideally we need one runner, one sitter and one creative #10 (Rice, Zubi, Odegaard let's say). But given 2/3 positions are determined (Bruno, Mainoo) and we can pick only one player to partner them, I think a #8 like Tonali or Anderson would be the best fit.
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Matic in his prime had enough legs to sweep up in front of the defence. Where's this idea from that a sitter can't have enough pace to cover the ground?

As you say you ideally need one runner (an 8), one sitter (a 6), and one creative 10. If you sign Tonali to be the 8, then you're asking Kobbie to be the sitter, and that's really not his game.
 
goldenboy said:
Matic in his prime had enough legs to sweep up in front of the defence. Where's this idea from that a sitter can't have enough pace to cover the ground?

As you say you ideally need one runner (an 8), one sitter (a 6), and one creative 10. If you sign Tonali to be the 8, then you're asking Kobbie to be the sitter, and that's really not his game.
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Look at the midfields these days man, you need one player who can really eat up ground and cover large spaces. Mainoo, Bruno aren't that. Matic isn't that either.

Sure if we can find a Caicedo floating about somewhere, that would be perfect. Failing that, I think dual #8s are fine, you don't need a proper #6. Liverpool do it with Mac Allister and Gravenberch. Mainoo fits in that Gravenberch role and Tonali in the Mac Allister role.
 
Teja said:
He won a CL with them and I think had a couple of good seasons?
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I reckon he spent more time on the bench than playing.

Took ages to get in the team, then played irregularly, before turning into the invisible man.

His best spell was the CL afterparty!

Not that I can be bothered researching it.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
I reckon he spent more time on the bench than playing.

Took ages to get in the team, then played irregularly, before turning into the invisible man.

His best spell was the CL afterparty!

Not that I can be bothered researching it.
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He started 114/157 appearances.
 
pocco said:
They have lost half of their games so far. For this supposed £70-80m midfielder, I would expect him to be able to shine over the likes of Sangare who plays next to him. All I'm asking if he is actually shining on a weekly basis or if we are only hearing about him after a good game? When I have checked player ratings he is often not the best player on the pitch and is often about the same rating as Sangare, who I don't really rate that high.

I've seen it in the past where people don't talk about a player for weeks when they aren't performing, but then a good game comes along and everyone is talking about them. In the end you have threads that are full of only positive praise and paint a different picture. When I have watched him I've found him to be a pretty solid player who can contribute defensively and is tidy on the ball, if a little unambitious. If we are even considering pairing him with somebody like Mainoo, who is pretty basic and one dimensional with his passing also, then we may have a pretty limited CM who is relying on attackers to carry the game whilst they recycle the ball constantly.
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On Fotmob, Sangare has an average rating of 6.91, Anderson has 7.48

On Sofascore, Sangare has an average rating of 7.05 and Anderson has 7.29

On Whoscored, Sangare has average of 6.64, Anderson has average of 7.11

Which ratings have you been looking at?
 
RedKnight88 said:
Elliot Anderson is worth no more than £85 million.
Before anyone mentions Declan Rice. Rice was always a top talent at West Ham for years before being sold to Arsenal unlike Elliot Anderson just has one good season .
And Brighton got lucky with Moises Caicedo because of Chelsea being ridiculous. Good player of course, but not £135m good.
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Try telling that to Forest
 
Not convinced by the idea of us going big for this lad.

If we're spending £80 million, I'm expecting the gamble to be minimal. Very much getting "Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea" vibes.
 
Alex99 said:
Not convinced by the idea of us going big for this lad.

If we're spending £80 million, I'm expecting the gamble to be minimal. Very much getting "Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea" vibes.
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I reckon £80 million for him is less of a gamble than £70m on Wharton or £60m on Baleba or £40-50m on some other midfielder (all completely made up numbers of course - doubt we’ll be able to get any of them for those prices).

Point being every single signing is a gamble and the market is hyper inflated, so we’re gonna be quoted very substantial fees wherever we look.
 
Herschel Krustofsky said:
How many games, on top of that, was he ‘n/a’ for ?

Would give an accurate representation of the utilisation / investment
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Wait a minute. You originally said “I reckon he spent more time on the bench than playing”. Now that’s been disproven you’re trying to change it to being about his injury record?
 
Happy to get him, happy for us to spend 100 million. Just don’t think he’ll want to come unless we get CL and have a clear vision for who the manager is before he walks in the door.
 
Adamsk7 said:
Happy to get him, happy for us to spend 100 million. Just don’t think he’ll want to come unless we get CL and have a clear vision for who the manager is before he walks in the door.
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Yeah I think you are spot on about that
 
Zumbi said:
Wait a minute. You originally said “I reckon he spent more time on the bench than playing”. Now that’s been disproven you’re trying to change it to being about his injury record?
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FFS. I’m not trying to ‘win the internet’ here.

It simply feels like he’s not been on the pitch much for a £100m signing.

Is that OK?
 
My issue with Anderson is that I am not convinced a midfield three of him, Mainoo and Bruno works. Anderson is quite similar to Uguarte in his defensive style. They're both players who love to go chasing the ball. He's obviously very good on the ball just think Casemiro's replacement should be a natural screener. Perhaps he can develop into that. Tuchel sends to think so.
 
FrankWhite said:
My issue with Anderson is that I am not convinced a midfield three of him, Mainoo and Bruno works. Anderson is quite similar to Uguarte in his defensive style. They're both players who love to go chasing the ball. He's obviously very good on the ball just think Casemiro's replacement should be a natural screener. Perhaps he can develop into that. Tuchel sends to think so.
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Who is that natural screener though is the question
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Sander Berge.
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He would be an excellent player for us adding height and stability at the back. There are two problems though. First of all he's 28 and Fulham won't sell him on the cheap. Secondly he's not very mobile. A Mainoo-Berge CM would be slow which would make us vulnerable in counters especially against those who play a low block.

Quite frankly I'd go for two hybrid 6-8 CM. Mandela Keita would be a more defensive option of that. He's strong, athletic, he wins loads of duels and he's comfortable with passing the ball. He's not as tall as Berge is but he's tenacious. Another player that is more attacking minded is Sangare of Lens. He's quick, athletic, high volume of tackling and interceptions. Then there's Man Utd Kone of Roma. He score lower in terms of interceptions by 90 then the other two but he's very physical, incredibly technically gifted, comfortable with the ball and a great dribbler. Bruno is a cheat code in terms of assists, workrate and goals but he won't be there forever. He might even leave this summer. It's time we start finding ways how to crack teams and in my opinion we need to make sure that every player in the team is capable to both defend and attack.
 
FrankWhite said:
My issue with Anderson is that I am not convinced a midfield three of him, Mainoo and Bruno works. Anderson is quite similar to Uguarte in his defensive style. They're both players who love to go chasing the ball. He's obviously very good on the ball just think Casemiro's replacement should be a natural screener. Perhaps he can develop into that. Tuchel sends to think so.
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This season Anderson passed the ball successfully 1,488 times with a success rate of 85.8%, Berge 1,162 times with a success rate of 90.4%. Top tier players like Vitinha passed the ball successfully (2,074 with 94.0%). The younger talent score lower but here's a picture of things of two players who might be interesting to watch. Keita (678 with a 88.3% success rate) and Sangare (809 with a 86.4%). Most of these players play with smaller sides which means that they usually under pressure to pass the ball and they have less time with the ball as well.

Ugarte's record is 347 successful passes at a 84.4% successful passing rate and a 52.2% long ball percentage. The problem with Ugarte isn't the way he defend. It what he does with the ball afterwards. He is comfortable with the ball as some soldier would be if he had just grabbed a live grenade. Thus imagine being his companion. He wins the ball, you move forward to make yourself available to him and bam he loses it immediately after. That happens time and time again.
 
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devilish said:
Secondly he's not very mobile. A Mainoo-Berge CM would be slow which would make us vulnerable in counters especially against those who play a low block.
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I know he looks kind of slow, but he is not. His top speed was measured at 35,9 km/t in the PL. I have been arguing that we should consider him for years, and the point about his pace has always been raised. But he is athlethically a freak.

In this article from his younger days at Genk the journalist got access to his test results at 10, 20 and 40 meters. He was actually the quickest at Genk at 10 and 20 meters, and 2nd at 40m. He was also number one in agility tests where they ran course.

SPRINT:
10 meters: 1.445 seconds (1st place)
20 meters: 2.577 seconds (1st place)
40 meters: 4.669 seconds (2nd place)
AGILITY:
Course (right side first): 10.503 seconds (1st place)
Course (left side first): 10.193 seconds (1st place)

https://www.vg.no/i/2EOEx?utm_source=iosapp&utm_medium=share

Maybe players in the PL are quicker than at Genk. Maybe his is not as quick at 28 as he was at 20. But he is not slow.
 
devilish said:
This season Anderson passed the ball successfully 1,488 times with a success rate of 85.8%, Berge 1,162 times with a success rate of 90.4%. Top tier players like Vitinha passed the ball successfully (2,074 with 94.0%). The younger talent score lower but here's a picture of things of two players who might be interesting to watch. Keita (678 with a 88.3% success rate) and Sangare (809 with a 86.4%). Most of these players play with smaller sides which means that they usually under pressure to pass the ball and they have less time with the ball as well.

Ugarte's record is 347 successful passes at a 84.4% successful passing rate and a 52.2% long ball percentage. The problem with Ugarte isn't the way he defend. It what he does with the ball afterwards. He is comfortable with the ball as some soldier would be if he had just grabbed a live grenade. Thus imagine being his companion. He wins the ball, you move forward to make yourself available to him and bam he loses it immediately after. That happens time and time again.
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Both are a problem, ignoring either wouldn't be good.
 
TrailMonkey said:
Baleba can’t be in the running with his form this season
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Can be if the form means 50m-60m instead of this season's (Start) 100m.

I mean, if we could get anderson and baleba for 160m all in, you'd take it. Baleba's form will come back.
 
Teja said:
He won a CL with them and I think had a couple of good seasons?
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David May won a CL. Doesn't mean he was a top player. I think Grealish is generally accepted as a flop. The only 100m plus signing in the Prem who hasn't turned out to be a let down is Declan rice.

In fact you could extend that to worldwide, excluding Mbappe
 
Alex99 said:
Not convinced by the idea of us going big for this lad.

If we're spending £80 million, I'm expecting the gamble to be minimal. Very much getting "Danny Drinkwater to Chelsea" vibes.
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He's on a different planet in terms of potential and actual performances to Danny Drinkwater. But I get why the big fee scares people. This one, though, at 100m, is worth it. I'm some randomer on the internet but I usually get these ones right. For whatever (if none) comfort that gives. Followed him a lot, watched him play in matches for Forest, and he's the real deal. Has levels to go through too.
 
neverdie said:
He's on a different planet in terms of potential and actual performances to Danny Drinkwater. But I get why the big fee scares people. This one, though, at 100m, is worth it. I'm some randomer on the internet but I usually get these ones right. For whatever (if none) comfort that gives. Followed him a lot, watched him play in matches for Forest, and he's the real deal. Has levels to go through too.
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Haven’t seen him a great deal (6? times? but he looks the biz. Always pos and looks to progress the play. Not quite Robbo but seems to have a good attitude. The priority for me.
 
Hammondo said:
Both are a problem, ignoring either wouldn't be good.
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No it's not if it's implemented right. Keane was a B2B player who was played alongside a CM who couldn't tackle. We won the treble with that. It's all about bringing the right people in. 2 hybrid no 6-8 CM must be good in intercepting the ball, mobility and comfortable with the ball. If they lack height than defense must provide the inches to compensate. Keane-scholes had Johnsen, schmeichel and stam behind them. Screeners are a safe option but they won't help overload defenses set in a low block. That's something to be taken in consideration. Football is not a zero sum game. However a successful side is one that someone's weakness is compensated by someone's strength
 
devilish said:
No it's not if it's implemented right. Keane was a B2B player who was played alongside a CM who couldn't tackle. We won the treble with that. It's all about bringing the right people in. 2 hybrid no 6-8 CM must be good in intercepting the ball, mobility and comfortable with the ball. If they lack height than defense must provide the inches to compensate. Keane-scholes had Johnsen, schmeichel and stam behind them. Screeners are a safe option but they won't help overload defenses set in a low block. That's something to be taken in consideration. Football is not a zero sum game. However a successful side is one that someone's weakness is compensated by someone's strength
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A lot has changed since 1999.
 
Hammondo said:
A lot has changed since 1999.
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Keane and scholes would be worth 350m in today's football. Actually cm was easier to set up back the. Than now. Roles were far more specialized. These days CMs are expected to be jack of all trades even though they might not be masters of anything
 
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I have to say I'm not convinced. He's going to be extremely expensive, we're going to have competition from other top clubs, and I couldn't say for sure that he'll continue to perform at this level (see Baleba). There are surely cheaper options elsewhere and then we could also bring in someone like Stiller as well to really improve our midfield options for all competitions.
 
devilish said:
Keane and scholes would be worth 350m in today's football. Actually cm was easier to set up back the. Than now. Roles were far more specialized. These days CMs are expected to be jack of all trades even though they might not be masters of anything
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United broke the British record transfer for Keane.
 
devilish said:
True but there's nothing that contradict what I just wrote. If Anderson is worth 100m then a 23 yr old Keane is worth 150m
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Anderson might cost 100 m but he is no where near worth 100 m and I am hoping United are bit smarter and braver with their money this Summer .
 
I'm totally in favour of going for a player like Anderson in terms of his profile, but the rumoured fee involved is really offputting. There has to be better value out there. Spending so much on a player immediately puts massive pressure on them and we need them to succeed. It's the same with Baleba or Wharton.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
I'm totally in favour of going for a player like Anderson in terms of his profile, but the rumoured fee involved is really offputting. There has to be better value out there. Spending so much on a player immediately puts massive pressure on them and we need them to succeed. It's the same with Baleba or Wharton.
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I’m not saying Anderson can be as good as either as I haven’t seen enough of him, but everyone said the same about Rice and Caicedo. Does anyone look back on either as silly purchases now?
 
2 man midfield said:
David May won a CL. Doesn't mean he was a top player. I think Grealish is generally accepted as a flop. The only 100m plus signing in the Prem who hasn't turned out to be a let down is Declan rice.

In fact you could extend that to worldwide, excluding Mbappe
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Personally think Caicedo was an excellent acquisition for Chelsea.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I’m not saying Anderson can be as good as either as I haven’t seen enough of him, but everyone said the same about Rice and Caicedo. Does anyone look back on either as silly purchases now?
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Or even Enzo. Thought he was a complete failure and waste of money, now becoming one of the most solid players in the league

Was he worth that money? Was he feck, but that’s the going rate for a reliable, top quality prem level midfielder
 
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