Imagine if we had spunked 100m there. The thought of playing for us has made him go to shit.
Elliot Anderson | Athletic: United's main target
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Imagine if we had spunked 100m there. The thought of playing for us has made him go to shit.
I agree but would say that the deal to take him to Forest was a dodgy PSR deal that helped each others books.
All in saying is let's not go overboard. I would be happy to get him, but I wouldn't be willyto spend crazy money.
On this forum he was the next big midfielder, and he was never close to good enough.
Did you miss the part where I said we’ll have a shortlist of CM options and buy the ones we can do the most reasonable deal on?
Where did I say we should spend £200 million on two CMs and neglect other positions?
If we spend £100-$120 million on rebuilding the midfield, that’s still very large sums of money, and with the way the market is right now, the likes of Gravenberch and Macallister would easily be going for £60 plus each, not under £40 million.
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That’s not how the market works. A player’s value does not correspond exactly with the league position of the team they’re playing for. Clubs scout players based on their performances and potential and if there’s competition for them and they offer a rare combination of ability, the asking club will want a lot of money for them. Rice and Caicedo weren’t playing for top five teams in the world when they went for huge sums, but it didn’t matter, because scouts could see what they were doing in lesser teams and thought their skillsets would translate very well into better teams.
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Thank you. Yes I believe Newcastle had to sell an academy player for psr reasons and Nottingham were the lucky club.
A proven international... and probably on the radar of lots of top clubs.
We could do another half assed bid in Jan, see if he does a Baleba 2nd half of the season
Yep agree. If Anderson has a strong showing in next summer's world cup his price tag will only increase too.
Also, Palace only paid £15m for Wharton.
That’s not how I remember it at all, he was a punt from Crewe
I am just thinking how awful is our transfer track record for midfielders in PL era. Keane, Bruno (who is more no10 than central midfielder), Carrick and Casemiro are only 4 who were a hit. Case maybe not a complete hit but he is not a miss. And that is it. 4 midfielders in 30 years.
Is it that hard to find a good midfielder?
Is it that hard to find a good midfielder?
He was being compared to Gerrard and lampard.
Not sure - I do remember his better performances being taken way out of proportion, which suggests he had very high expectations / hype around him when signed
I remember Jordan Henderson for Liverpool and how I used to think he was a rubbish player.
Then all of a sudden Klopp came and Henderson slowly started to change.
Henderson started to become a player that would constantly be able to deliver 7-7.25 out of 10 performances.
Nothing flashy but the key was consistency. You knew he was reliable and he was delivering 2 games a week. Delivering the same output in quality and quantity; whilst that wasn't important to United fans trying to compare him to generational level players like Scholes - having a consistent player, well made them consistent.
Anderson can be that player for us & he looks better than Henderson at the same age aswell.
Anderson is more well rounded than Wharton or Mainoo. I don't see why Amorim would ditch Mainoo to go buy a player like Wharton. I've come to terms that Amorim isn't going to play the type of football that I enjoy so signing a very well rounded player is the best investment we could make.
Then all of a sudden Klopp came and Henderson slowly started to change.
Henderson started to become a player that would constantly be able to deliver 7-7.25 out of 10 performances.
Nothing flashy but the key was consistency. You knew he was reliable and he was delivering 2 games a week. Delivering the same output in quality and quantity; whilst that wasn't important to United fans trying to compare him to generational level players like Scholes - having a consistent player, well made them consistent.
Anderson can be that player for us & he looks better than Henderson at the same age aswell.
Anderson is more well rounded than Wharton or Mainoo. I don't see why Amorim would ditch Mainoo to go buy a player like Wharton. I've come to terms that Amorim isn't going to play the type of football that I enjoy so signing a very well rounded player is the best investment we could make.
A few people on RedCafe making that comparison does not mean he was generally rated as that.
We have to agree to disagree. A player that Man Utd and Real Madrid are interested cant be "defending is basically non-existenst".
My recollection is that he was rated as a prospect but that a huge proportion of the hype was that amazing goal he scored in the playoffs.
Ofcourse I agree, I was just replyin to a the poster that said name players that moved within the PL clubs for big money and failed so I just listed a few names.
In your original post you literally said "Who? Which players in the PL have performed like Anderson and Rice (for West Ham) in Premier League at a young age, sold for a large amount, and then went on to not be worth it?" You brought up moving for big money!
Player not being worth the money they paid for includes injuries too, Before we signed Mount everyone was mostly skeptical about his injury record, I will let you guess what happened and also not performing at their level might be so many different reasons like moving to a big club might be too much for some, you can be a big fish in a small pond but moving to a big clubs a whole different level with pressure, outcomes etc.
Every one I listed played to a great level at their previous clubs and not live up to expectations at a big club. Anderson isn't even performing at a world class level for us to be debating if 100 million for him is worth it.
Every hyped up prospect is a risk to the club which brings him in. For every Rooney there have to be at least 100 Bebes. Some carved out solid but undecorated careers elsewhere such as Zaha. A better example would be Forlan, who gave everything he had to United but at least I believe was stricken with had luck during his time at Old Trafford.
Those of us, like myself, see something special in Anderson could be proven wrong, but there is no sure thing with football transfers.
Those of us, like myself, see something special in Anderson could be proven wrong, but there is no sure thing with football transfers.
Okay fair enough. The way you worded it though, alongside mentioning two players at £85m and £100m+, made it seem like you thought spending £150-£200m was a viable option for our midfield rebuild. If the players we've identified all cost around that region, we've not done a good enough job identifying players. We shouldn't spend that much regardless.
Also £100m on rebuilding the midfield would not be very huge sums of money in the context of football economy.
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You see. There are good players out there without having to break the bank. It is all about world class recruitment which I hope we are moving towards.
That's because we rarely sign midfielders. And when we do, they are usually not proper ones. There's a difference between a midfielder and a player that plays in midfield. Every time we sign midfielders that can't perform the simple basics of turning on the ball and passing in between the lines.
Just take a look at any list of every midfielder we've signed in the last 15 years, from Powell to Ugarte. There's always one simple basic of midfield play each of them can't do. It baffles me.
What stands out for me is the 80,6 pass success %. I am no stats buff but isn`t that really low for a cm at a big club with the ambition of keeping the ball well? Even a high risk high reward player, a natural nr 10, like Bruno is a fair bit higher than that when playing cm i believe.
They complement each other quite well.
Maybe I'm wrong but when I see United and the system Amorim employs, I feel like the profile of Anderson is someone you'd want to have in your midfield more. An all round combative midfielder.
I think you are misremembering but there were quite a few.
This season Bruno is 78.4%
Anderson is 83.4%
Enzo is 82.4%
Tijjani Reijnders is 87.6%
Mac allister is 85.2%
Just to give a few names to compare
I think he played further forward at some points last season, and he's generally improved as a midfielder since last season. His success rate this season is 83.4% in the Premier League and he progresses the ball more than any other midfielder in the league. Fernandes' success rate is 78.4%.
Team playstyle matters as well. 80% pass completion when most of that time has been spent playing hoofball under Nuno and Dyche isn't too bad at all.
Matheus Nunes went from 79% in his last season at Wolves to 88% now with City, for example.
Anderson-son-son, he's better than Anderson.
He looks like a real tidy player that will make the midfield tick over nicely, kind of like how Mount in the 10 (when he's on his game) makes ball retention and progression fluid.
He looks like a real tidy player that will make the midfield tick over nicely, kind of like how Mount in the 10 (when he's on his game) makes ball retention and progression fluid.
True, saw a stat that said higher but was just for short passes.
passing accuracy might not be a big issue then
I remember in the game against us, he kind of lost his head for 5 mins and attempted three Hail Mary balls which just weren’t on. It’s things like that which will bring that number right down, and is something that can be ironed out of a young player.
I don’t think it’s fair to compare him to Bruno’s percentages though unless you’re going to compare end product like chances created. Without looking at that stat, I’m presuming Bruno’s figures dwarf Anderson’s.
I'd love the guy, think he passed his audition against us with flying colours. Problem is the price and if he's gonna have this fall off next season, like Baleba seems to have. 100mill + seems insane and it's not something we should be paying unless we absolutely can 100% guarantee this guy, or whoever, will be a mainstay in that midfield for the next 10+ years.
I'd say look abroad but INEOS seem to have a bit of the wind in their sales when it comes to trying to sign "prem proven" first, as per reports.
We tried to sign Liam Delap first over any other forward, it looked like we were gonna get Emi Martinez at one point. So yeah, i'd expect them to look inwards to the league first before we extend to players like Angelo Stiller and co, but I do believe there are some great midfield talents in Germany, Spain, and France currently, we should be looking there.
I'd say look abroad but INEOS seem to have a bit of the wind in their sales when it comes to trying to sign "prem proven" first, as per reports.
We tried to sign Liam Delap first over any other forward, it looked like we were gonna get Emi Martinez at one point. So yeah, i'd expect them to look inwards to the league first before we extend to players like Angelo Stiller and co, but I do believe there are some great midfield talents in Germany, Spain, and France currently, we should be looking there.
There’s quite a few posters making all sorts of ridiculous claims at any given time at Redcafe. There was never any kind of general sentiment or consensus that Powell was at that level. For a brief period there was a tiny bit of hype about him and that was it.
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I hope that we stay far away from Stiller
That’s how I remember it. People had hope more than anything but that soon disappeared when the injuries started clocking up
That's what I worry about with these 80m+ signings. I have the same worry with Anderson. A year ago nobody was talking about those prices.
I think if we can get one of Wharton or Anderson or the like for £85 million ish then we’ll likely (or at least I very much hope) supplement it with another CM signing in the £30-40 million range. Which together would not be an unreasonable expenditure for a full midfield rebuild given how insane the current market is - although it’s still a very large sum of money. Add in a LWB and maybe a ball playing CM and gives us a much more balanced squad. I don’t think anyone with any sense expects us to buy two £80-100 million midfielders. I certainly don’t, but I can see us spending a lot on one player if they’re the right age and profile.
I think it’s easy with hindsight to point out great midfield purchases from three years ago who were more affordable. But my original point was that the current market is hugely inflated so finding such deals is increasing hard. That will likely mean significant expenditure either way.
Tbf, it was Rodgers who got Henderson going at Liverpool.
He scored a lot of good goals for Crewe and was being compared to Lampard but the difference was he did it in the lower divisions.