Elliot Anderson | Athletic: United's main target

pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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It's an interesting point. The incoming CMs have to be able to play with each other and Mainoo. If for example it was Anderson and Baleba. You'd think Baleba would be the 6, shielding the defence. As would Ugarte (if he wasn't sold). That would leave Anderson and Mainoo as the 8's.

So those combos would work with more defensive 6's.

However, then playing Mainoo and Anderson together would theoretically compromise either one of their games as one of them would have to be a disciplined 6 for that game.

If we do end up signing Anderson, it will be interesting to see how they function as a pair when they play together and what the tactical instructions are for them.
 
golden_blunder said:
Garner ain’t happening. Not sure why people keep suggesting him when he signed a contract 2 months ago. If we sign him in the summer it would make INEOS look bad when they could have got him for not much in January. That ship has sailed
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If we were interested, surely you just get in his agent’s ear and say “sign nothing, we’ll have a contract for you in the summer” and pick him up on a free. The fact we haven’t done that, and neither has any other big club, suggests he’s either really happy at Everton/playing for Moyes and not looking to move, or there’s some reservations about him from other clubs. Either way, completely agree, absolute non-starter.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night.
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He was?! Where?...

My comment from having watched him was "I thought he looked perhaps England's best player" - he seemed sharp and was one of the very few players on the night actually capable of finding good passes to team-mates.

England's biggest problems were, and are, that Palmer, Foden and Rogers are in poor form. The former two in particular were dreadful yesterday and could barely make anything stick or complete any successful attacking actions. Anderson kept feeding them passes which they wasted time and again. Case in point, Japan's goal came from Anderson playing a decent pass in to Palmer and looking for a return, but Palmer just dallied on the ball and got dispossessed.

Looking now at how the players were "rated" on sofascore, turns out it tallies:

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I didn't see any major red flags with him and Mainoo together either - they looked more comfortable taking positions alongside each other and exchanging passes between each other than eg Wharton and Mainoo did when they were on the pitch together vs Uruguay. Wharton and Mainoo vs Uruguay got in each other's way a lot.

pocco said:
Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that.
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Pretty much no CM on the market will. Certainly not compared to replicating what Casemiro has been bringing to the table recently. But Anderson still seems to be comfortably the best option.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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There's a big difference between having no chance of starting any games while barely even getting minutes off the bench (after not being allowed to go out on loan to get gametime) and being part of the squad rotation that starts numerous games and gets a good amount of minutes off the bench in other games. While I'm not a fan of the noises that were coming out of his camp, being in the former situation is obviously going to cause issues while the latter shouldn't.

There's no sign whatsoever that Mainoo is 'untouchable'. Quite frankly, if the club think he's going to cause drama if he's not our main starter, he needs to be sold ASAP. I have high hopes for the future but he's simply not good enough to fill that role yet.
 
IrwinwasbetterthanCarlos said:
If we were interested, surely you just get in his agent’s ear and say “sign nothing, we’ll have a contract for you in the summer” and pick him up on a free. The fact we haven’t done that, and neither has any other big club, suggests he’s either really happy at Everton/playing for Moyes and not looking to move, or there’s some reservations about him from other clubs. Either way, completely agree, absolute non-starter.
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We had an optional +1 for him so he wouldn't have left for a free this summer regardless.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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Strongly disagree with this take. I'm not going to say he was brilliant but I thought he got around the pitch well, played some good passes and him and Mainoo largely controlled things in the middle of the park. There was an issue of creativity but I put that down to the forward line not gelling and not playing well. Tuchel said after the game that he needed more from the forward and the full backs from an attacking perspective, which I agree with.

Not perfect but I thought Anderson and Mainoo had good games as individuals and as a collective. It was a friendly and their first game together, so wouldn't read a great deal into it anyway.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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Are you kidding me? Now Ugarte is apparently an “entitled prick” just because he’s asking for a move? Behave!

Fact is, when Mainoo broke into the first team under Ten Hag, he proved he was more than capable of starting for both Manchester United and England. Sure, his form dipped and he went through a rough patch, but he went from starting nearly every game under Ten Hag to being benched under Amorim, facing competition from arguably the best player in our squad in Bruno.

Use your brain. If that were you, and suddenly you were competing with the best player in your team, you’d be pushing for a move too.

As it stands, Mainoo is back in the team and performing reasonably well under Carrick. Not spectacular, but ok. He is not going into next season expecting to start every single game. There’s a massive difference between being rotated sensibly and being left to rot on the bench. And if we bring in at least two midfielders next season, I can't imagine Mainoo won’t have any issues with that.

As for “throwing the coach under the bus”? Mainoo didn’t need to do that. The worst fecking manager in the history of this club and seems like he still has a few fans wrapped around his little finger. Just look at where we are now, and our results since he was sacked. Wins actually happen without him. Shocking, right?
 
saivet said:
Strongly disagree with this take. I'm not going to say he was brilliant but I thought he got around the pitch well, played some good passes and him and Mainoo largely controlled things in the middle of the park. There was an issue of creativity but I put that down to the forward line not gelling and not playing well. Tuchel said after the game that he needed more from the forward and the full backs from an attacking perspective, which I agree with.

Not perfect but I thought Anderson and Mainoo had good games as individuals and as a collective. It was a friendly and their first game together, so wouldn't read a great deal into it anyway.
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Both players got the higest rating on FotMob. Anderson 8 and Mainoo 7.7 Everyone else got under 7.
 
Honestly don't get the fuss about Anderson decent player but when fees mentioned are 100 m I would rather we look elsewhere instead of wasting our time .
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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Rared one of England poorest by who. BBC gave Anderson 7 and Mainoo 6 which I thought was just about right.
Anderson must have made the most successful number of passes from the game I watched. But then I will admit to being a bit biased. He has the character of a winner.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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A lot of stat sites have Anderson and Mainoo as England’s two highest rated players. Where have you seen these ratings?
 
goldenboy said:
He was?! Where?...

My comment from having watched him was "I thought he looked perhaps England's best player" - he seemed sharp and was one of the very few players on the night actually capable of finding good passes to team-mates.

England's biggest problems were, and are, that Palmer, Foden and Rogers are in poor form. The former two in particular were dreadful yesterday and could barely make anything stick or complete any successful attacking actions. Anderson kept feeding them passes which they wasted time and again. Case in point, Japan's goal came from Anderson playing a decent pass in to Palmer and looking for a return, but Palmer just dallied on the ball and got dispossessed.

Looking now at how the players were "rated" on sofascore, turns out it tallies:

BfFpAn1.png


I didn't see any major red flags with him and Mainoo together either - they looked more comfortable taking positions alongside each other and exchanging passes between each other than eg Wharton and Mainoo did when they were on the pitch together vs Uruguay. Wharton and Mainoo vs Uruguay got in each other's way a lot.



Pretty much no CM on the market will. Certainly not compared to replicating what Casemiro has been bringing to the table recently. But Anderson still seems to be comfortably the best option.
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Yeah. I think they worked well together in a terrible England performance, and all of the stats reflect that.
 
The more I think about it, Anderson isn't the right profile for a shielding 6. As much as I rate the kid, if we were to buy him it'd have to be to play the #8 role that Mainoos occupying. Intrigued to see what the clubs plans are for Thwaites who Carrick seems to rate highly.

With Casemiros leaving and Ugarte looking to be sold. Looks like we require X2 #6's.

Which leads me to think itl be more Baleba and someone cheaper like Bouaddi (Ineos love a player with potential)
 
Rolaholic said:
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Anyone else think guardiola will nullify his natural game to fit his philosophy of football?

After all guardiola hates his midfielders recieving the ball on the half turn and Bernardo Silva and KDB had to adjust their game when they arrived at City for his.

Can see him doing something similar to Anderson.
 
pocco said:
Didn't look great last night, and was rated as one of England's poorest players on the night. Him and Mainoo didn't look like it was a duo that was going to transform us in title challengers or anything near to that. Mainoo is untouchable here, so we better look elsewhere. If the club decides to bench Mainoo, which I doubt, then they might as well sell him instead as he and his family will just act like entitled pricks again and throw whichever coach under the bus.
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In that case i wish he threw that pitiful excuse of a coach aka snake oil salesman under the bus earlier. The worst manager of all time pretty much.
 
rhutcho69 said:
The more I think about it, Anderson isn't the right profile for a shielding 6. As much as I rate the kid, if we were to buy him it'd have to be to play the #8 role that Mainoos occupying. Intrigued to see what the clubs plans are for Thwaites who Carrick seems to rate highly.

With Casemiros leaving and Ugarte looking to be sold. Looks like we require X2 #6's.

Which leads me to think itl be more Baleba and someone cheaper like Bouaddi (Ineos love a player with potential)
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Stop fixating over getting in like for like replacement.

If we did this, Sir Alex would have never replaced Keane with Carrick.
 
JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
You're an absolute sausage.

In no way do I think Tonalis crimes should stop him from playing for United. I think hes a wicked player. I was explaining that the media attention and intense negativity may be difficult for us and for him. His entire life will be scrutinized with a fine tooth comb. Every bad performance will be met with incredible negativity on social media, as well as talksport, papers etc. If we do go for him I genuinely hope he has a strong mentality, as hes going to need it.
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You're not making much of a point. Intense global media scrutiny is the price any player who signs up for United has to deal with. It may have been in a different thread, but I made this very point the other day somewhere on this forum -- that prior to INEOS United did an abysmal job of assessing the psychological profiles of players they brought in over the last decade. The list is long, but the short list in recent years is led by Sancho and Onana. Both were fantastic players for their prior clubs, no question about it, but they crumbled into dust as soon as they came to Old Trafford. Why is impossible for me to say, but it's as clear as could be that they could not handle the intense pressure that comes with playing for United. I think we on this forum all know that but it's often underappreciated as a consideration when we evaluate the performances of our players.

It was you who brought up Tonali's gambling problem as an issue of some kind, right? Yes, it was. Tonali has been in playing in England for a fairly high profile club -- not the United, but a pretty decent United -- and there hasn't been a whiff of ongoing hang-wringing about his gambling conviction. Sandro has gotten on with it, brilliantly by all accounts, and here is now, is considered one of the best central midfielders in the world. The rest of the football world has gotten on with it, no one that I have read of wringing their hands about the gambling conviction. In Italy, where football is intensely scrutinized every second, there is no hang-wringing about Tonali's gambling conviction. He is a massive part of the Italy national team (yes, the same one that crashed out at the feet of the "Milwaukee Messi"), without any controversy whatsoever. In fact, Tonali was vital to whatever hopes Italy had in making it back to the World Cup.

So what exactly do you think would happen if United were to sign Tonali? That a media firestorm would immediately ensue? Not a chance. A mention in one or two tabloids, sure, but that's it. We'd get over it after our first cup of tea.

There are good reasons to take a pass on Tonali such as the outrageous fee Newcastle would likely demand or maybe that he's just not good enough in light of other options, but bringing up something from his past, which is done and dusted and his dues paid (and is nothing remotely close to the Greenwood matter), is shockingly poor form.
 
elmo said:
Stop fixating over getting in like for like replacement.

If we did this, Sir Alex would have never replaced Keane with Carrick.
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Oh it's definitely not fixating, but no getting away from it we need positional discipline in the number 6 role yes?

Mainoo doesn't have alot of defensive awareness, so after alot of thought I think it's crucial a Casemiro replacement does, or we'l still see our midfield ran through. Which alot on here think it's our biggest weakness.

Think about it, it makes perfect sense......
 
lex talionis said:
You're not making much of a point. Intense global media scrutiny is the price any player who signs up for United has to deal with. It may have been in a different thread, but I made this very point the other day somewhere on this forum -- that prior to INEOS United did an abysmal job of assessing the psychological profiles of players they brought in over the last decade. The list is long, but the short list in recent years is led by Sancho and Onana. Both were fantastic players for their prior clubs, no question about it, but they crumbled into dust as soon as they came to Old Trafford. Why is impossible for me to say, but it's as clear as could be that they could not handle the intense pressure that comes with playing for United. I think we on this forum all know that but it's often underappreciated as a consideration when we evaluate the performances of our players.

It was you who brought up Tonali's gambling problem as an issue of some kind, right? Yes, it was. Tonali has been in playing in England for a fairly high profile club -- not the United, but a pretty decent United -- and there hasn't been a whiff of ongoing hang-wringing about his gambling conviction. Sandro has gotten on with it, brilliantly by all accounts, and here is now, is considered one of the best central midfielders in the world. The rest of the football world has gotten on with it, no one that I have read of wringing their hands about the gambling conviction. In Italy, where football is intensely scrutinized every second, there is no hang-wringing about Tonali's gambling conviction. He is a massive part of the Italy national team (yes, the same one that crashed out at the feet of the "Milwaukee Messi"), without any controversy whatsoever. In fact, Tonali was vital to whatever hopes Italy had in making it back to the World Cup.

So what exactly do you think would happen if United were to sign Tonali? That a media firestorm would immediately ensue? Not a chance. A mention in one or two tabloids, sure, but that's it. We'd get over it after our first cup of tea.

There are good reasons to take a pass on Tonali such as the outrageous fee Newcastle would likely demand or maybe that he's just not good enough in light of other options, but bringing up something from his past, which is done and dusted and his dues paid (and is nothing remotely close to the Greenwood matter), is shockingly poor form.
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I hope youre right, but I highly doubt I am. Newcastle doesnt come close to the same media scrutiny of United. I personally couldn't give a feck about his gambling as he wasnt done for match fixing, but I hope he is mentally prepared for the intense difference in treatment. We have had too many lads who wilt under the pressure, hopefully he can be the opposite.

Also have no idea what hang wringing is. Must be a colloquial thing
 
lex talionis said:
The list is long, but the short list in recent years is led by Sancho and Onana. Both were fantastic players for their prior clubs, no question about it, but they crumbled into dust as soon as they came to Old Trafford. Why is impossible for me to say, but it's as clear as could be that they could not handle the intense pressure that comes with playing for United
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Sancho had a lot of disciplinary issues already at Dortmund, btw. Repeated lateness for training, extended unauthorised absences etc.

The warning signs were all already there, but United missed or ignored them.

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
Newcastle doesnt come close to the same media scrutiny of United.
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This is true.

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo said:
I personally couldn't give a feck about his gambling as he wasnt done for match fixing
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He did though bet on numerous matches which he himself was actually playing in - both at Milan and Newcastle. Which is pretty mad.
 
goldenboy said:
Sancho had a lot of disciplinary issues already at Dortmund, btw. Repeated lateness for training, extended unauthorised absences etc.

The warning signs were all already there, but United missed or ignored them.



This is true.



He did though bet on numerous matches which he himself was actually playing in - both at Milan and Newcastle. Which is pretty mad.
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Ah ok thats worse than I realised
 
Mike Smalling said:
Pretty sure I read in the match thread yesterday that he’s crap now.
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No one was especially great (of the starters; Maguire was wonderful at getting his head on corners late on), but he was palpably better than Mainoo in terms of - well - progressive passing, speed of decision making, positioning, running, tackling. Minor things like that. KM looked positively efficient compared with Foden, to be fair.
 
King7Eric said:
Yeah I know that's why I think him and Anderson (who can play deeper and cover ground) would be a complimentary pairing. I don't think Anderson and Baleba is a complimentary pairing because that lacks the passing ability of Wharton you describe. Even Mainoo isn't someone who can play defense splitting passes so that's a capability we need to add this summer, in addition to someone who can cover ground in the middle of the park.

So Anderson+ Wharton would be the best case scenario. If we can't get Anderson then Baleba + Wharton or Baleba + Tonali.
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Given a choice of those last two pairings which do you think would fit our requirements better?
 
croadyman said:
Given a choice of those last two pairings which do you think would fit our requirements better?
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Tricky question..on paper Wharton + Baleba seems the right set of attributes. But then we also need to consider that both of them (and Mainoo) are quite young so you end up with a midfield that might lack the experience and nous to drag us over the line in certain games.

That's why I wouldn't be against going for someone like Tonali or Guimaraes as they bring a bit of experience and know how.

So to answer your question I would go for Baleba + Tonali even though I feel that would lack a bit of creativity. But for next season, you hope Bruno keeps performing and the likes of Cunha and Amad step up a bit, and then its not too bad.

One name that isn't mentioned too much on here lately is Angelo Stiller (might be because he's Madrid bound), but a pairing of Stiller and Anderson or Stiller and Tonali would actually be a perfect mix.
 
King7Eric said:
Tricky question..on paper Wharton + Baleba seems the right set of attributes. But then we also need to consider that both of them (and Mainoo) are quite young so you end up with a midfield that might lack the experience and nous to drag us over the line in certain games.

That's why I wouldn't be against going for someone like Tonali or Guimaraes as they bring a bit of experience and know how.

So to answer your question I would go for Baleba + Tonali even though I feel that would lack a bit of creativity. But for next season, you hope Bruno keeps performing and the likes of Cunha and Amad step up a bit, and then its not too bad.

One name that isn't mentioned too much on here lately is Angelo Stiller (might be because he's Madrid bound), but a pairing of Stiller and Anderson or Stiller and Tonali would actually be a perfect mix.
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The general negative around Stiller on here is that he's too lightweight for the Premier League. Mind you if we could bring in an Anderson/Tonali/Baleba as well then it would negate that concern for me.
 
croadyman said:
The general negative around Stiller on here is that he's too lightweight for the Premier League. Mind you if we could bring in an Anderson/Tonali/Baleba as well then it would negate that concern for me.
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To be fair United would be insane to sign a deep lying playmaker like Stiller or Wharton to start at 6. United instead need to sign one player of that ilk (to compete with Mainoo),a starting ball winner who can pass (Anderson/Tonali/Chem Andre type) then a cheap generalist who can pair with anybody as the bench option (like Fernandes of west ham )
 
Zoo said:
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I’ve said for months that if Anderson was nailed on for City then we’d know and would simply move on to otger targets but over the past few weeks we’re seeing more and more of Anderson still being our top target and some reports of us being favourites, losing Rodri and Silva as well as the non stop rumours of Guardiola going whilst we’re finally moving in the right direction will help our cause.
 
davidmichael said:
I’ve said for months that if Anderson was nailed on for City then we’d know and would simply move on to otger targets but over the past few weeks we’re seeing more and more of Anderson still being our top target and some reports of us being favourites, losing Rodri and Silva as well as the non stop rumours of Guardiola going whilst we’re finally moving in the right direction will help our cause.
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While true, it also doesn't benefit Forest to act like there is one viable buyer
 
davidmichael said:
I’ve said for months that if Anderson was nailed on for City then we’d know and would simply move on to otger targets but over the past few weeks we’re seeing more and more of Anderson still being our top target and some reports of us being favourites, losing Rodri and Silva as well as the non stop rumours of Guardiola going whilst we’re finally moving in the right direction will help our cause.
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Nah It's not in the players interests to limit options so we wouldn't know. The agent and Forrest will be trying to keep the competition for his signature going as long as possible. I've no doubt he'll probably have made up his mind but most players let their agents and club squeeze for every penny.
 
The price mentioned in that tweet though...£100 - £120mil. Damn. He would need to perform at current Declan Rice levels to justify that.
 
He does tick a lot of boxes but the price tag is crazy in my opinion.....especially as we need at least two midfielders and maybe now is the time for him and us to cash in on Bruno....three midfield signings.

Tonali, Baleba, Wharton, Camavinga....there are lots of real top quality midfielders that could be possibilities this summer and I dont think any will be anywhere near as costly as Anderson fee now.

And I actually though Declan Rice was high but a good deal, not sure it is on Anderson from his experience and progression so far, its a ridiculous fee even in the current market, he has lots of good attributes and ability but no midfielder in world football would cost that if available I think at the moment
 
jesperjaap said:
He does tick a lot of boxes but the price tag is crazy in my opinion.....especially as we need at least two midfielders and maybe now is the time for him and us to cash in on Bruno....three midfield signings.

Tonali, Baleba, Wharton, Camavinga....there are lots of real top quality midfielders that could be possibilities this summer and I dont think any will be anywhere near as costly as Anderson fee now.

And I actually though Declan Rice was high but a good deal, not sure it is on Anderson from his experience and progression so far, its a ridiculous fee even in the current market, he has lots of good attributes and ability but no midfielder in world football would cost that if available I think at the moment
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Erm… Vitinha, Pedri and Joao Neves say hi.
 
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