Emiliano Sala: Rest In Peace

[Adisa]

Why would Nantes have been responsible for his travel?

 

[Offside]

Eerie.

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[Ish]

Appalling. Bloody hell.

 

[GE]

So so sad.

 

[Cee90]

Awful.

 

[royboy16]

Really sad and could have been avoided had they used a proper plane and pilot.
RIP.

 

[Adisa]

Who was responsible for that plane?

 

[WeePat]

Who was responsible for that plane?

The plane was rented by his agent. It belonged to a British company.

 

[Adisa]

The plane was rented by his agent. It belonged to a British company.

Have both been sued to oblivion?

 

[tenpoless]

So the transfer involved 20 fecking million but none of the clubs could afford a first class flight with international standards for him? or to fly him on a luxury private jet?
It doesn't even have to be him that pay for it.
I'm so annoyed by it.

 

[Gandalf]

It is a terrible tragedy but I am not sure why people are so outraged about Cardiff pursuing legal action for their losses in this. The transfer was for a club record fee and although we will never know it is entirely possible that his goals would have made the difference between them staying in the PL and being relegated. It is fairly clear that Cardiff were not responsible for what happened and they tried to organize proper travel arrangements and so there is no conflict between them genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family whilst also seeking some recourse for the huge financial losses they have endured due to what happened. It is childish and simplistic to say that just because of the tragedy they should just suck it up and they are somehow morally reprehensible if they don't, it is not as though they are an oil club who can write off tens of millions just for the lolz.

 

[JPRouve]

So the transfer involved 20 fecking million but none of the clubs could afford a first class flight with international standards for him? or to fly him on a luxury private jet?
It doesn't even have to be him that pay for it.
I'm so annoyed by it.

I don't see a scenario where Nantes would organize any flight, he wasn't their employee anymore. And the issue is about organization whoever was in charge of organizing the flight messed up, logically that person is either working for Cardiff FC, Sala's agent, Sala himself or someone else close to Sala.

 

[JPRouve]

It is a terrible tragedy but I am not sure why people are so outraged about Cardiff pursuing legal action for their losses in this. The transfer was for a club record fee and although we will never know it is entirely possible that his goals would have made the difference between them staying in the PL and being relegated. It is fairly clear that Cardiff were not responsible for what happened and they tried to organize proper travel arrangements and so there is no conflict between them genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family whilst also seeking some recourse for the huge financial losses they have endured due to what happened. It is childish and simplistic to say that just because of the tragedy they should just suck it up and they are somehow morally reprehensible if they don't, it is not as though they are an oil club who can write off tens of millions just for the lolz.

Cardiff are and were owned by a billionaire, while he isn't in the energy business, he isn't close to be poor.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I don't see a scenario where Nantes would organize any flight, he wasn't their employee anymore. And the issue is about organization whoever was in charge of organizing the flight messed up, logically that person is either working for Cardiff FC, Sala's agent, Sala himself or someone else close to Sala.

It's Willie McKay isn't it? Cardiff had originally arranged a commercial flight but plans changed when the player decided to stay a bit longer.

 

[RedStarUnited]

So the transfer involved 20 fecking million but none of the clubs could afford a first class flight with international standards for him? or to fly him on a luxury private jet?
It doesn't even have to be him that pay for it.
I'm so annoyed by it.

Loads of footballers fly private between transfers. Its meant to be faster and more convenient for them. In reality I dont think a lot of them realise how expensive it is and very unnecessary unless you are a star.

It is a terrible tragedy but I am not sure why people are so outraged about Cardiff pursuing legal action for their losses in this. The transfer was for a club record fee and although we will never know it is entirely possible that his goals would have made the difference between them staying in the PL and being relegated. It is fairly clear that Cardiff were not responsible for what happened and they tried to organize proper travel arrangements and so there is no conflict between them genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family whilst also seeking some recourse for the huge financial losses they have endured due to what happened. It is childish and simplistic to say that just because of the tragedy they should just suck it up and they are somehow morally reprehensible if they don't, it is not as though they are an oil club who can write off tens of millions just for the lolz.

As the saying goes, its just business.

 

[JPRouve]

It's Willie McKay isn't it? Cardiff had originally arranged a commercial flight but plans changed when the player decided to stay a bit longer.

I read that it was him but didn't follow the story beyond the first weeks.

 

[Gandalf]

Cardiff are and were owned by a billionaire, while he isn't in the energy business, he isn't close to be poor.

He may not be poor but not every owner is willing to bankroll their club. Cardiff's owner is not a fan pumping money into a team, he is a businessman who is only interested in profits and would quite happily sell the club right now if he could find a buyer. The club itself is not in great financial shape and as I understand the legal case from my Cardiff supporting friends the nature of European law dictates the sequence of legal actions they have to follow. It is well known that the ultimate blame lies with Henderson and to some degree McKay but they had to begin with the case regarding the legality of the transfer itself. It is a very complicated and emotive issue.

 

[Gandalf]

So the transfer involved 20 fecking million but none of the clubs could afford a first class flight with international standards for him? or to fly him on a luxury private jet?
It doesn't even have to be him that pay for it.
I'm so annoyed by it.

Cardiff did organize a first class commercial flight for him but he opted to stay a little longer and fly on a private charter arranged by his agent. Sadly too many people are unaware that the private charter world is more open to abuse and when a flight is arranged at the last minute you can get into a situation like the one here where the plane is not fit for purpose and the pilot is not licensed to carry passengers or qualified to make the flight in question.

 

[JPRouve]

He may not be poor but not every owner is willing to bankroll their club. Cardiff's owner is not a fan pumping money into a team, he is a businessman who is only interested in profits and would quite happily sell the club right now if he could find a buyer. The club itself is not in great financial shape and as I understand the legal case from my Cardiff supporting friends the nature of European law dictates the sequence of legal actions they have to follow. It is well known that the ultimate blame lies with Henderson and to some degree McKay but they had to begin with the case regarding the legality of the transfer itself. It is a very complicated and emotive issue.

I get that but the way you put it, you made it sounds like it was a potential lack of liquidity that would be the root of their decisions when it's actually a cold business decision. It's not very complicated and their decision has nothing to do with emotions. I can understand it but lets not make it more complicated than it actually is.

 

[Gandalf]

I get that but the way you put it, you made it sounds like it was a potential lack of liquidity that would be the root of their decisions when it's actually a cold business decision. It's not very complicated and their decision has nothing to do with emotions. I can understand it but lets not make it more complicated than it actually is.

I really don't see where I did. Comments in this thread were getting emotional and I simply pointed out that the club has suffered a significant financial loss through no fault of their own and so it is unrealistic to think they would not try to recover some of those losses through any means available.

 

[huyn]

It is a terrible tragedy but I am not sure why people are so outraged about Cardiff pursuing legal action for their losses in this. The transfer was for a club record fee and although we will never know it is entirely possible that his goals would have made the difference between them staying in the PL and being relegated. It is fairly clear that Cardiff were not responsible for what happened and they tried to organize proper travel arrangements and so there is no conflict between them genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family whilst also seeking some recourse for the huge financial losses they have endured due to what happened. It is childish and simplistic to say that just because of the tragedy they should just suck it up and they are somehow morally reprehensible if they don't, it is not as though they are an oil club who can write off tens of millions just for the lolz.

The fact that it was a record fee or that they arent an oil club has nothing to do with the situation. They signed a contract and didnt respect the terms of it. If they couldn't afford him they shouldnt have bought him. It is totally clear that Cardiff is responsible for what happened, even if just indirectly. It was their responsibility to bring Sala to Cardiff, it's their fault that they delegated it to a shady intermediary.

And please dont say that they are "genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family" without knowning anything about the topic. His sister tried to commit suicide last year, citing Cardiff legal tricks to make the thing last as long as possible as one of the reasons.

 

[JPRouve]

I really don't see where I did. Comments in this thread were getting emotional and I simply pointed out that the club has suffered a significant financial loss through no fault of their own and so it is unrealistic to think they would not try to recover some of those losses through any means available.

Let's say it this way, Cardiff owner could write off the 20m, he chose not to, the last sentence of your initial post insinuated that only an oil club could do it which is not true at all and not the case in the sport world. Especially when the owner is a billionaire. Tan and Cardiff took a cold business decision, that one can understand but shouldn't be justified by acting as if he had no other recourse because it's blatantly untrue. Everything they have done here is from a business standpoint and fairly cold when you consider the idea that they could and likely should have been the ones organizing the transport of their newly acquired player. Also the delay isn't an excuse, outside of the player himself they should have been the ones organizing and overseeing it in all circumstances.

 

[Jeppers7]

Let's say it this way, Cardiff owner could write off the 20m, he chose not to, the last sentence of your initial post insinuated that only an oil club could do it which is not true at all and not the case in the sport world. Especially when the owner is a billionaire. Tan and Cardiff took a cold business decision, that one can understand but shouldn't be justified by acting as if he had no other recourse because it's blatantly untrue. Everything they have done here is from a business standpoint and fairly cold when you consider the idea that they could and likely should have been the ones organizing the transport of their newly acquired player. Also the delay isn't an excuse, outside of the player himself they should have been the ones organizing and overseeing it in all circumstances.

Spot on. They have acted disgracefully

 

[WeePat]

Have both been sued to oblivion?

Not sure what the outcome of it was but the family of Sala did at least attempt to sue a bunch of individuals and entities including Cardiff and Nantes, the agents that handled the deal and the agencies the plane was registered with and the individuals that ran those agencies.

 

[Semper Fudge]

That pilot seemed like such a selfish arsehole. Terrible.

 

[Gandalf]

The fact that it was a record fee or that they arent an oil club has nothing to do with the situation. They signed a contract and didnt respect the terms of it. If they couldn't afford him they shouldnt have bought him. It is totally clear that Cardiff is responsible for what happened, even if just indirectly. It was their responsibility to bring Sala to Cardiff, it's their fault that they delegated it to a shady intermediary.

And please dont say that they are "genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family" without knowning anything about the topic. His sister tried to commit suicide last year, citing Cardiff legal tricks to make the thing last as long as possible as one of the reasons.

This is where your logic falls down. Cardiff delegated nothing, they arranged transport and the player chose not to get on that flight and instead trusted his agent who in turn trusted a shady Charter firm. I do know something about the topic despite your claims to the contrary and the sad fact is this was an entirely avoidable tragedy that resulted from a sequence of poor decisions by multiple parties. I am simply pointing out that Cardiff themselves suffered a very significant loss and they were not responsible for him being on that plane and yet people act as though they are evil incarnate for trying to mitigate their losses. Everybody clutching their pearls at Cardiff sending in the lawyers needs a reality check, Nantes are suing everyone, the family are suing everyone even McKay and Henderson are suing people. A lot of comments on this thread seem to have been made by people with little understanding of how the real world works.

 

[Gandalf]

Let's say it this way, Cardiff owner could write off the 20m, he chose not to, the last sentence of your initial post insinuated that only an oil club could do it which is not true at all and not the case in the sport world. Especially when the owner is a billionaire. Tan and Cardiff took a cold business decision, that one can understand but shouldn't be justified by acting as if he had no other recourse because it's blatantly untrue. Everything they have done here is from a business standpoint and fairly cold when you consider the idea that they could and likely should have been the ones organizing the transport of their newly acquired player. Also the delay isn't an excuse, outside of the player himself they should have been the ones organizing and overseeing it in all circumstances.

You seem determined to split hairs to make a point I am just not seeing but the fact is Malcolm Glazer could write off 20m but he never would and the Tan family are not known for their largesse. I can concede that you could be angry at the Tan family for their actions but the club is separate from them and does not deserve to be smeared in the way it has been. With regards to the bolded I am not sure what more you think Cardiff should have done. They arranged transport and the player took matters into his own hands and we are not talking about an elite club but a provincial team so how they were meant to track down Sala and get him on to the commercial flight they had arranged when he was awol in another Country is beyond me. Cardiff don't have a private plane at their disposal and the last minute nature of what happened cut them out of the loop entirely.

 

[stepic]

seems like the blame should be squarely with Henderson. he must have known that plane was fecked, it was his responsibility to manage it and look after it.

the pilot should also have never flown it if, as we have seen from that video, had doubts about it.

Sala himself should also have refused to get on it if he himself had doubts. but you've got to blame Henderson first and foremost. the fact he only got 18 months seems crazy.

 

[JPRouve]

You seem determined to split hairs to make a point I am just not seeing but the fact is Malcolm Glazer could write off 20m but he never would and the Tan family are not known for their largesse. I can concede that you could be angry at the Tan family for their actions but the club is separate from them and does not deserve to be smeared in the way it has been. With regards to the bolded I am not sure what more you think Cardiff should have done. They arranged transport and the player took matters into his own hands and we are not talking about an elite club but a provincial team so how they were meant to track down Sala and get him on to the commercial flight they had arranged when he was awol in another Country is beyond me. Cardiff don't have a private plane at their disposal and the last minute nature of what happened cut them out of the loop entirely.

What has Malcolm Glazer got to do with this? And I'm angry at no one, I just stated that the idea that they didn't write off the 20m for lulz because they are not an oil club is untrue, nothing more and nothing less. Tan didn't do it because he is greedy which is fine and don't need excuses.

 

[Gandalf]

What has Malcolm Glazer got to do with this? And I'm angry at no one, I just stated that the idea that they didn't write off the 20m for lulz because they are not an oil club is untrue, nothing more and nothing less. Tan didn't do it because he is greedy which is fine and don't need excuses.

You are determined to miss the point I was making so this is a waste of time. Tan is greedy, I have agreed with you repeatedly but you cannot let it go.

 

[redshaw]

Just tragic all round.

I understand Cardiff arranged a commercial flight from Paris but that's quite far from Nantes. I would've thought they would arrange a flight from Nantes once turned down, perhaps needing to stop at London then fly to Cardiff or arrange a small commercial jet if a more convenient direct flight was required while saying goodbyes. You have a multi-million person and asset that you now own which needs to be brought back in the safest way.

If the pilot had more experience he would've said we aren't flying back in that. My brief insight to the safety measures required in checking and rebuilding planes/helicopters means I wouldn't have chanced it for a million quid after experiencing the issues flying in. It's difficult to believe how dodgy and shoestring the arrangements, plane and pilot were and how many chances throughout there was by everyone stop and arrange something else.

 

[JPRouve]

Just tragic all round.

I understand Cardiff arranged a commercial flight from Paris but that's quite far from Nantes. I would've thought they would arrange a flight from Nantes once turned down, perhaps needing to stop at London then fly to Cardiff or arrange a small commercial jet if a more convenient direct flight was required while saying goodbyes. You have a multi-million person and asset that you now own which needs to be brought back in the safest way.

If the pilot had more experience he would've said we aren't flying back in that. My brief insight to the safety measures required in checking and rebuilding planes/helicopters means I wouldn't have chanced it for a million quid after experiencing the issues flying in. It's difficult to believe how dodgy and shoestring the arrangements, plane and pilot were and how many chances throughout there was by everyone stop and arrange something else.

It's not really far and it's fairly normal for an international flight. Outside of Marseilles and maybe Lyon, you are almost always going to go through Paris.

 

[golden_blunder]

It is a terrible tragedy but I am not sure why people are so outraged about Cardiff pursuing legal action for their losses in this. The transfer was for a club record fee and although we will never know it is entirely possible that his goals would have made the difference between them staying in the PL and being relegated. It is fairly clear that Cardiff were not responsible for what happened and they tried to organize proper travel arrangements and so there is no conflict between them genuinely empathizing with Emiliano's family whilst also seeking some recourse for the huge financial losses they have endured due to what happened. It is childish and simplistic to say that just because of the tragedy they should just suck it up and they are somehow morally reprehensible if they don't, it is not as though they are an oil club who can write off tens of millions just for the lolz.

I’m sure that they claimed the insurance. I have no empathy for their actions.

 

[Gandalf]

I’m sure that they claimed the insurance. I have no empathy for their actions.

Part of the reason they had to pursue legal action was due to insurance as their insurers disputed that the transfer was completed and so argued the money was not owed to Nantes. It is not about empathy, just a recognition that the actions they have taken have by and large been because they had no other alternative. I have no liking for the Tan family but coming from Cardiff I have a lot of friends who are lifelong City fans and it is difficult to see so much vitriol directed at the club and its supporters over an issue that is outside of their control. The idea that the club is heartless for not just writing off losses of tens of millions is just wrong, any club in their situation would have done the same.

 

[BlueHaze]

That was actually really emotional hearing that audio clip and also very disturbing. You can really hear in his voice he knows death is imminent.

Knowing your fate like that and also knowing you cannot do anything about it, can't even imagine what that feels like.

 

[redshaw]

It's not really far and it's fairly normal for an international flight. Outside of Marseilles and maybe Lyon, you are almost always going to go through Paris.

Well I did say quite far, goes without saying it's fairly normal for an international flight. It may have been a little unappealing at the time to travel to Paris and he wanted a direct flight for more convenience and time saving, who knows and expected a nice small jet to be arranged. He did end up on a small plane flying directly rather than going to Paris on a later day which would've been easy to book and no cost to the agent/player. If Paris was 5 miles away I don't think he'd be flying on that rickety plane so I'd say there was some travel and time consideration involved as it is "quite far".

 

[JPRouve]

Well I did say quite far, goes without saying it's fairly normal for an international flight. It may have been a little unappealing at the time to travel to Paris and he wanted a direct flight for more convenience and time saving, who knows and expected a nice small jet to be arranged. He did end up on a small plane flying directly rather than going to Paris on a later day which would've been easy to book and no cost to the agent/player. If Paris was 5 miles away I don't think he'd be flying on that rickety plane so I'd say there was some travel and time consideration involved as it is "quite far".

I get what you are trying to suggest but to me it makes no sense from the organizer point of view, I don't follow the rational behind it. If we are talking about commercial flights than there is no other option than Nantes to Paris and then Cardiff, if we are talking about Loire Atlantique to Cardiff on a private jet, it's not really a problem and will "only" cost between 5k€ to 30k€, on a proper jet with a proper pilot. In all cases, this story is baffling because it is senseless, if you don't want to go to Paris on a commercial flight book a proper plane locally.

I don't get how anyone can mess this up that badly.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Eerie.

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That’s so sad, I really, really hope he didn’t suffer.

And not that it matters, but he sounds so stoic and calm in that voice clip it’s deeply impressive. He literally sounds cool as feck while in that situation.

R.I.P

 

[redshaw]

I get what you are trying to suggest but to me it makes no sense from the organizer point of view, I don't follow the rational behind it. If we are talking about commercial flights than there is no other option than Nantes to Paris and then Cardiff, if we are talking about Loire Atlantique to Cardiff on a private jet, it's not really a problem and will "only" cost between 5k€ to 30k€, on a proper jet with a proper pilot. In all cases, this story is baffling because it is senseless, if you don't want to go to Paris on a commercial flight book a proper plane locally.

I don't get how anyone can mess this up that badly.

Do you though?

I'm not suggesting a proper private jet or small commercial jet wasn't an option, that's what I'm saying should've been done in the absence of flying out from Paris booked by Cardiff. I myself can't believe he's ended up on such a shoestring operation as I've already said, makes no sense to me either. The agent could've gone back to the club and said arrange a small jet direct or they could've booked one themselves through the proper channels.

The point I'm only making is his possible preference to fly direct on a smaller plane due to time/convivence and expected a proper small jet to be arranged. If it was no problem traveling to Paris he would've done it another day. He may have asked his agent to sort him a direct flight as he wanted to stay longer and say goodbye or he just simply said I'd like to stay a bit longer in conversation and not leave for Paris now and his agent suggests to him I know a pilot and can take you straight to Cardiff from here on any day you fancy. His pilot friend Henderson can't make it so ends up with his unqualified friend of a friend which leads to this disaster.

You quoted me wanting to say Nantes to Paris isn't far. I said it's quite far, and for me far enough in certain circumstances to want a direct flight either for allowing more time to say goodbyes or convivence of a direct flight which lots of people take as they have the money, on a proper small jet of course.

 

[JPRouve]

Do you though?

I'm not suggesting a proper private jet or small commercial jet wasn't an option, that's what I'm saying should've been done in the absence of flying out from Paris booked by Cardiff. I myself can't believe he's ended up on such a shoestring operation as I've already said, makes no sense to me either. The agent could've gone back to the club and said arrange a small jet direct or they could've booked one themselves through the proper channels.

The point I'm only making is his possible preference to fly direct on a smaller plane due to time/convivence and expected a proper small jet to be arranged. If it was no problem traveling to Paris he would've done it another day. He may have asked his agent to sort him a direct flight as he wanted to stay longer and say goodbye or he just simply said I'd like to stay a bit longer in conversation and not leave for Paris now and his agent suggests to him I know a pilot and can take you straight to Cardiff from here on any day you fancy. His pilot friend Henderson can't make it so ends up with his unqualified friend of a friend which leads to this disaster.

You quoted me wanting to say Nantes to Paris isn't far. I said it's quite far, and for me far enough in certain circumstances to want a direct flight either for allowing more time to say goodbyes or convivence of a direct flight which lots of people take as they have the money, on a proper small jet of course.

I got what you meant.