Emmanuel Macron

[Rob]

Sounds a lot like what’s been happening here in Denmark.

 

[4bars]

France passes controversial immigration bill amid deep division in Macron’s part


.

Again, the shitty excuse of lets do what the far right would do to avoid that they raise in power. Si basically becoming de facto the far right and the far right pushing even harder

Blame the immigrants, not who is at the top fecking things up

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Is it fair to say at this point, most people just don't want the current levels of immigration to continue?

If that is the case then who decides that it has to continue and how do you justify that and remain democratic?

So many countries (its pretty much all the western style democracies now) are going this way and its getting harder and harder to keep claiming it is just the extreme right wing.

 

[4bars]

Is it fair to say at this point, most people just don't want the current levels of immigration to continue?

If that is the case then who decides that it has to continue and how do you justify that and remain democratic?

So many countries (its pretty much all the western style democracies now) are going this way and its getting harder and harder to keep claiming it is just the extreme right wing.

There is an increase sentiment on not wanting immigration. 1 part it might be justified (I will circle back to that). a second part is because they are hammering us down our throat that they are the root of the problems. They come to still their jobs while claiming benefits for unemployment (WTF), having everything for free and also, still our women. I must confess I did all that but not the unemployment benefits but also I paid my taxes and didn't use health care resources

Then also cry because no one wants to do menial jobs when we close the borders

The part that is justified as lots of immigrations might overwhelm the system in place, maybe we should check what we are doing as a developed world to force people to leave their home, their culture, their family and friends. To do all that to try to move in a foreign country, maybe without knowing the language, expose to mafias, working for pennies and be insulted

Maybe we should stop ravaging countries for greed, provoking wars for oil and also make it difficult to develop like the US pushing US car manufacturers to return to US threatening with protectionist measures and at the same time ruffle the feathers when Mexico might strike deals with China car manufacturers.

All in all everything goes to the same source Capitalism and the inequality created. Inequality between countries creating economic migrants and disaster migrants like wars. We all benefit of these inequalities. On the economic migrants because we squeeze them for all they got for minimum economic return, also when our national companies manufacture cheap on their countries of origin. And we benefit for the wars provoked elsewhere, from cheap gas to arms deals and reconstruction contracts that eventually we enjoy through the jobs created and the taxes collected.

All in all, yes, these immigration influx of late that overwhelm the developed countries is problematic for some or many, but we have no qualms to enjoy the benefits that provoked these immigration

Meanwhile with this distraction of the rich pointing to immigrants, we forget that the real problem are them creating these inequalities, the populism grows and fascism is knocking out the door. And don't forget, what goes around, comes around. Who knows who is gonna be the next immigrant. Lets be more human, and feck up the ones they create the problem and live a life as the new medieval powers

 

[JagUTD]

There is an increase sentiment on not wanting immigration. 1 part it might be justified (I will circle back to that). a second part is because they are hammering us down our throat that they are the root of the problems. They come to still their jobs while claiming benefits for unemployment (WTF), having everything for free and also, still our women. I must confess I did all that but not the unemployment benefits but also I paid my taxes and didn't use health care resources

Then also cry because no one wants to do menial jobs when we close the borders

The part that is justified as lots of immigrations might overwhelm the system in place, maybe we should check what we are doing as a developed world to force people to leave their home, their culture, their family and friends. To do all that to try to move in a foreign country, maybe without knowing the language, expose to mafias, working for pennies and be insulted

Maybe we should stop ravaging countries for greed, provoking wars for oil and also make it difficult to develop like the US pushing US car manufacturers to return to US threatening with protectionist measures and at the same time ruffle the feathers when Mexico might strike deals with China car manufacturers.

All in all everything goes to the same source Capitalism and the inequality created. Inequality between countries creating economic migrants and disaster migrants like wars. We all benefit of these inequalities. On the economic migrants because we squeeze them for all they got for minimum economic return, also when our national companies manufacture cheap on their countries of origin. And we benefit for the wars provoked elsewhere, from cheap gas to arms deals and reconstruction contracts that eventually we enjoy through the jobs created and the taxes collected.

All in all, yes, these immigration influx of late that overwhelm the developed countries is problematic for some or many, but we have no qualms to enjoy the benefits that provoked these immigration

Meanwhile with this distraction of the rich pointing to immigrants, we forget that the real problem are them creating these inequalities, the populism grows and fascism is knocking out the door. And don't forget, what goes around, comes around. Who knows who is gonna be the next immigrant. Lets be more human, and feck up the ones they create the problem and live a life as the new medieval powers

Can't always lay the blame on the west though, especially when you see many countries can make things far worse all by themselves.

 

[4bars]

Can't always lay the blame on the west though, especially when you see many countries can make things far worse all by themselves.

Of course I do, from colonialism to the rampant capitalism of nowadays. The governments that Mexico and other latin american countries had, they been mostly handpicked/approved by US during the XXth century. We will never know how it would have been otherwise, but the mark is there. And the shitshow in middleeast that the west creates and still creating every decade

Afghanistan and Iraq are way worse than they were. So is Syria and Yemen with arms sold by the west

Again, all this people would likely stay in their countries with their families and friends.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure I can tell one thing or two that I don't like of immigration, but I can tell you many more and more impactful of the ones that rules us and they are the ones that are causing the majority of these disasters

As an example, UK are planning to spend 200k pounds per immigrant to send them to rwanda (Max 500 immigrants). What could the UK government do with 100 million for newcomers to settle in, produce and pay taxes? You can argue that it might deter other immigrants but the ones that come, they don't know about that and frankly, the weight their odds and it seems an easy choice

That is why, this program is only for internal consumption blame the immigrant collective to pander to the brittish nationalism for votes and start tilting to the populism fascism

 

[JagUTD]

Of course I do, from colonialism to the rampant capitalism of nowadays. The governments that Mexico and other latin american countries had, they been mostly handpicked/approved by US during the XXth century. We will never know how it would have been otherwise, but the mark is there. And the shitshow in middleeast that the west creates and still creating every decade

Afghanistan and Iraq are way worse than they were. So is Syria and Yemen with arms sold by the west

Again, all this people would likely stay in their countries with their families and friends.

Don't get me wrong. I am sure I can tell one thing or two that I don't like of immigration, but I can tell you many more and more impactful of the ones that rules us and they are the ones that are causing the majority of these disasters

As an example, UK are planning to spend 200k pounds per immigrant to send them to rwanda (Max 500 immigrants). What could the UK government do with 100 million for newcomers to settle in, produce and pay taxes? You can argue that it might deter other immigrants but the ones that come, they don't know about that and frankly, the weight their odds and it seems an easy choice

That is why, this program is only for internal consumption blame the immigrant collective to pander to the brittish nationalism for votes and start tilting to the populism fascism

I thinks it's to easy though, especially when there are several other players involved manipulating events to suit their own agenda's. China in particular have their fingers in many pies now but nobody is immigrating to China (pretty obvious why of course).

As far as countries making a mess of it themselves, just take a look at the complete disaster that is Ethiopia. Makes most of the well known conflict hotspots right now look like a day at the park. And that's largely without any Western involvement.

 

[calodo2003]

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[RedDevilQuebecois]

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That is pathetic by Macron. Why the need to defend Depardieu when there are far better French actors than him?

That documentary/report (titled La Chute de l'Ogre) showing Depardieu making sexist, vulgar and disparaging remarks made to and about women in front of the cameras during a 2018 visit in North Korea clearly establishes his profile as a vile creature. The National Order of Quebec was stripped away from him because of those remarks. And we have to remember that one of Depardieu's accusers, Emmanuelle Debever, died by suicide only 2 weeks ago.

 

[4bars]

I thinks it's to easy though, especially when there are several other players involved manipulating events to suit their own agenda's. China in particular have their fingers in many pies now but nobody is immigrating to China (pretty obvious why of course).

As far as countries making a mess of it themselves, just take a look at the complete disaster that is Ethiopia. Makes most of the well known conflict hotspots right now look like a day at the park. And that's largely without any Western involvement.

I can't give my opinion with Ethiopia because I don't know enough, to say I know nothing but that is just a drop in the ocean and frankly a disregardable percentage on the immigration in Europe. Sure not all and everything can be pinned on the west, but a large majority of the immigration that goes to europe and US is because of their greed and geopolitics that don't allow them to develop or straight conflict creation. And I am talking about Lybia and Syria lately for europe and latinamerican economic and inequality migrants in US

 

[4bars]

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Abusive anti immigrant laws, siding with sexual predator that embraced russian citizenship to not pay taxes... Why most of the assholery is always at the same side of the political spectrum?

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

There is an increase sentiment on not wanting immigration. 1 part it might be justified (I will circle back to that). a second part is because they are hammering us down our throat that they are the root of the problems. They come to still their jobs while claiming benefits for unemployment (WTF), having everything for free and also, still our women. I must confess I did all that but not the unemployment benefits but also I paid my taxes and didn't use health care resources

Then also cry because no one wants to do menial jobs when we close the borders

The part that is justified as lots of immigrations might overwhelm the system in place, maybe we should check what we are doing as a developed world to force people to leave their home, their culture, their family and friends. To do all that to try to move in a foreign country, maybe without knowing the language, expose to mafias, working for pennies and be insulted

Maybe we should stop ravaging countries for greed, provoking wars for oil and also make it difficult to develop like the US pushing US car manufacturers to return to US threatening with protectionist measures and at the same time ruffle the feathers when Mexico might strike deals with China car manufacturers.

All in all everything goes to the same source Capitalism and the inequality created. Inequality between countries creating economic migrants and disaster migrants like wars. We all benefit of these inequalities. On the economic migrants because we squeeze them for all they got for minimum economic return, also when our national companies manufacture cheap on their countries of origin. And we benefit for the wars provoked elsewhere, from cheap gas to arms deals and reconstruction contracts that eventually we enjoy through the jobs created and the taxes collected.

All in all, yes, these immigration influx of late that overwhelm the developed countries is problematic for some or many, but we have no qualms to enjoy the benefits that provoked these immigration

Meanwhile with this distraction of the rich pointing to immigrants, we forget that the real problem are them creating these inequalities, the populism grows and fascism is knocking out the door. And don't forget, what goes around, comes around. Who knows who is gonna be the next immigrant. Lets be more human, and feck up the ones they create the problem and live a life as the new medieval powers

Ok, I get your point of view.

Many other people don't share it though and would vote differently to you on the matter. At what point does their desire to limit immigration become something that has to happen or do you think you have a right to impose your opinion, if it became a minority one, on the majority?

I am worried that there is a political price that is being paid now which will increase if in the end a majority want real limits imposed and they keep being told, you can't do that, no matter how many vote for them and for however long they keep voting for them.

Is this the hill the left and democratic systems die on and what would that look like.

The leader of the French national front is now quite likely to be the next president of France, you have to draw in your breath and whistle through your teeth at that.

 

[VorZakone]

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[ManUtd1999]

If the media continues to attack Macron, who is a good and reasonable president, they will get Le Pen or Melenchon. That would be a job well done by the media.

And then they will spend 5 years complaining about the far right or far left.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

If the media continues to attack Macron, who is a good and reasonable president, they will get Le Pen or Melenchon. That would be a job well done by the media.

And then they will spend 5 years complaining about the far right or far left.

This. Le Pen and Melenchon are clearly disconnected with reality, both at home and overseas. Those populists are good at nothing but fecking their respective countries over.