Emmanuel Macron

[Full bodied red]

Do you vote for a minister or is it the role of the elected executive?

Different things in different countries, isn't it ?

I think it depends on whether you have an Executive Head of State, like Trump or Macron, in which case they tend to be elected and then appoint their own ministers who are usually from elected representatives but not always, as in the USA, or whether you have a non-executive Head of State, like the various Royal Families and Monarchies around the world, in which case you usually vote for your local representative(s) and then let those elected representatives decide on the the Prime Minister who then appoints subsidiary ministers from the rest of the elected representatives, but again not always - think Brown's appointment of Mandelson as minister in the UK when he had already quit UK politics to become an EU Commissioner, and there have been the odd other occasions in the UK, it isn't just a Labour / Socialist thing.

At least, that's how I see the two systems working.

So to clarify, if he sorts those things out you'll regard him as successful? Okay, at least we have something to judge against.

Who ??

 

[Ubik]

Who ??

Macron, the person who this thread is about and who you were complaining about in the section I bolded.

 

[JPRouve]

Different things in different countries, isn't it ?

I think it depends on whether you have an Executive Head of State, like Trump or Macron, in which case they tend to be elected and then appoint their own ministers who are usually from elected representatives but not always, as in the USA, or whether you have a non-executive Head of State, like the various Royal Families and Monarchies around the world, in which case you usually vote for your local representative(s) and then let those elected representatives decide on the the Prime Minister who then appoints subsidiary ministers from the rest of the elected representatives, but again not always - think Brown's appointment of Mandelson as minister in the UK when he had already quit UK politics to become an EU Commissioner, and there have been the odd other occasions in the UK, it isn't just a Labour / Socialist thing.

At least, that's how I see the two systems working.

To make it simple, the commissioners are nominated by the head of states of the EU and recommended by the president of the commission who is himself nominated by the head of states of the EU. They are all nominated by the people we elected to take those decisions, they are as legitimate as Le Maire or Phillipe are in France.

 

[Full bodied red]

Macron, the person who this thread is about and who you were complaining about in the section I bolded.

Sorry...Thought you mght have been talking about Trump.

Hell, yes ! I'll even vote for him myself next time if he can knock some sense into the unions and get the unemployment rate down to even 7%

To make it simple, the commissioners are nominated by the head of states of the EU and recommended by the president of the commission who is himself nominated by the head of states of the EU. They are all nominated by the people we elected to take those decisions, they are as legitimate as Le Maire or Phillipe are in France.

I think our discussion here probably belongs more on the BREXIT thread.

However, you make a compelling case - even if it does remind me of a sketch on 'Not the 9 o'clock News' many years ago on UK television where a company's HR people are having a meeting with a Union Shop Steward (DdP equivalent in the UK). They decide to have a break and can't decide whether to have tea or coffee so decide to have a vote. The four ( might have been five, might have been three, can't remember ) HR guys vote for tea, and the Shop Steward says simply 'And it's 1.7 million votes for coffee, that's how many I'm representing here, so coffee it is'

 

[Abizzz]

Macron is just Merkel's poodle.

And Merkel is going to take orders / instuctions from Macron ? So why the visit to Berlin within 24 hours of his inauguration ? To tell her she has to ? Or to be told that he has to ? His first day on the job should have been about sorting out our problems - not the EU's problems - like our unsustainable 35 hour week and 9.6% unemployment rate.

If that's what he wants to do and what he's going to do, then he should have stood for election as an EU Comissioner. Oh sh*t, silly me - we aren't allowed to vote for those, are we ? They're just 'appointed' from the usual list of washed-up politicos still trying to stay on the Public Payroll.

No lies there. Well, one tiny one. Comissioners don't stand for election - they're invited by the the EU Commission, who themselves were not elected.

Macron will do wonders for the EU and the square root of nothing for France - absolutely nailed on to be an EU BigWigComissioner in five years time when he loses the next Presidentials.

Opinion - not proven one way or another yet, so hardly vile lies.

He might be a jerk, but he won't take shit from Merkel and Juncker as Obama did

I think Trump has already proven this, hasn't he ? He's told Germany and others that NATO membership comes with a cost, something a lot of the European members seem to have forgotten even though they appear to have enough for their own, planned European Defence Force. Maybe Obama told them the same but if he did, they obviously ignored him.

So either Macron needs to force Merkel to take his orders, or he is her poodle? This is exactly the typical vile brexit rhetoric and lies I was referring too. He can go visit who the feck he wants. If he chooses to visit his biggest neighbor, so be it. Your assumption he could have fixed the 9.6% on his first morning in office and chose not to do so is telling.

The process of how the EU Commission is elected is democratic, no two ways about it. Saying it is not is saying that the member states who constitute the EU aren't democratic and a direct insult to all member nations. The process might be too complicated for some to comprehend, that doesn't change anything about its democratic basis.

Saying Macron will do great for the EU and nothing for France is nonsensical. To claim he is nailed on as next EU commissioner isn't an opinion, he either is, or he isn't. And at the moment, he isn't.

To claim Trumps method of influencing foreign leaders is superior to Obama's is a bold claim. Trump has achieved nothing up to now (other than alienating his strongest allies), but it is still early days.

 

[Crossie]

To make it simple, the commissioners are nominated by the head of states of the EU and recommended by the president of the commission who is himself nominated by the head of states of the EU. They are all nominated by the people we elected to take those decisions, they are as legitimate as Le Maire or Phillipe are in France.

Not only that. In addition, the EU parliament whose members are elected by EU voters are involved too:

The Treaty establishing the European Community provides that Members of the European Commission be subject as a body to a vote of approval by the European Parliament prior to their appointment. The practice was therefore established to hold hearings of each Commissioner designate before the responsible parliamentary committees.

Hearings are usually broadcasted and therefore everyone interested in the designate on this planet can follow. The EU parliament has already rejected designated commissioners so it is an active, working process.

BTW, one of the persons pushing for expanded powers of the EU parliament (as a body that is directly elected by voters) like this one was a certain guy named Martin Schulz.

 

[Crossie]

So either Macron needs to force Merkel to take his orders, or he is her poodle? This is exactly the typical vile brexit rhetoric and lies I was referring too. He can go visit who the feck he wants. If he chooses to visit his biggest neighbor, so be it. Your assumption he could have fixed the 9.6% on his first morning in office and chose not to do so is telling.

The process of how the EU Commission is elected is democratic, no two ways about it. Saying it is not is saying that the member states who constitute the EU aren't democratic and a direct insult to all member nations. The process might be too complicated for some to comprehend, that doesn't change anything about its democratic basis.

Saying Macron will do great for the EU and nothing for France is nonsensical. To claim he is nailed on as next EU commissioner isn't an opinion, he either is, or he isn't. And at the moment, he isn't.

To claim Trumps method of influencing foreign leaders is superior to Obama's is a bold claim. Trump has achieved nothing up to now (other than alienating his strongest allies), but it is still early days.

It's not even Brexiteer speak, it's Putin speak. It's sad to see how easy people buy into this propaganda but encouraging to see it is a minority who does.

 

[Full bodied red]

I don't mind being in a minority - fairly used to it.

And complaining about Macron is Putin speak ? C'mon....Try again....

As far as Macron visiting Merkel, first day, I think that shows his priorities. If you're a stockholder in Ford, and you've just canned the CEO because he was rubbish, and his replacement decides on the first day in his job he's rather go and meet the CEO of GM to discuss the state of the industry rather than meet his staffers in Ford, it might ring alarm bells about his priorities if all you want him to do is sort out Ford. But presumably you guys would be OK with this ?

 

[Abizzz]

I don't mind being in a minority - fairly used to it.

And complaining about Macron is Putin speak ? C'mon....Try again....

As far as Macron visiting Merkel, first day, I think that shows his priorities. If you're a stockholder in Ford, and you've just canned the CEO because he was rubbish, and his replacement decides on the first day in his job he's rather go and meet the CEO of GM to discuss the state of the industry rather than meet his staffers in Ford, it might ring alarm bells about his priorities if all you want him to do is sort out Ford. But presumably you guys would be OK with this ?

France isn't GM and Germany isn't Ford though. We're not two nations competing for the same customer. A more fitting analogy would be that the new CEO of Chevrolet decided to visit the CEO of Buick.

 

[JPRouve]

I don't mind being in a minority - fairly used to it.

And complaining about Macron is Putin speak ? C'mon....Try again....

As far as Macron visiting Merkel, first day, I think that shows his priorities. If you're a stockholder in Ford, and you've just canned the CEO because he was rubbish, and his replacement decides on the first day in his job he's rather go and meet the CEO of GM to discuss the state of the industry rather than meet his staffers in Ford, it might ring alarm bells about his priorities if all you want him to do is sort out Ford. But presumably you guys would be OK with this ?

Okay with the president meeting our main partner during his first official day and then facing his most difficult project the next day? Yeah, I'm okay with that. The same way I'm okay with the idea that like most new president he mixed domestic phone calls and diplomatic ones during the week that separated the election and his investiture.

 

[pierrethesnack]

Love it when people just talk confidently out of their arse about how undemocratic the EU is, how nobody is elected etc, and then just stops talking about it when they are quietly explained how it works.

Of course that doesn't mean that there isn't huge room for improvement.

 

[Charlie Foley]

He might be a jerk, but he won't take shit from Merkel and Juncker as Obama did.

Just uncle Vlad

 

[Full bodied red]

Love it when people just talk confidently out of their arse about how undemocratic the EU is, how nobody is elected etc, and then just stops talking about it when they are quietly explained how it works.

Of course that doesn't mean that there isn't huge room for improvement.

Never stop taking about it....

Tony Benn, probably the best politico of his generation, talking about why he was opposed to the EU.

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?
WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?
IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?
TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?
HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

Only Democracy gives us that right. That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.



So how do any of us get rid of an EU Commissioner - especially the slimeball drunk from Luxemburg ??

Answer - we can't, because there are no elections for Commissioners !!

 

[Abizzz]

So how do any of us get rid of an EU Commissioner - especially the slimeball drunk from Luxemburg ??

Answer - we can't, because there are no elections for Commissioners !!

Become PM, enter the EU, convince other heads of states, elect somebody else. Solved. People sending jokes of politicians to the parliament complaining that they don't have a direct vote for the commissioner... the irony. David Cameron actually attempted to do this... he wasn't able to convince others, hence Junker was reelected, democratically. Brexiteers wouldn't accept that and started inventing their own version of the EU. If anyone is undemocratic, it's brexiteers.

How do you get rid of Mark Carney, if I may ask?

 

[Full bodied red]

Become PM, enter the EU, convince other heads of states, elect somebody else. Solved. People sending jokes of politicians to the parliament complaining that they don't have a direct vote for the commissioner... the irony. David Cameron actually attempted to do this... he wasn't able to convince others, hence Junker was reelected, democratically. Brexiteers wouldn't accept that and started inventing their own version of the EU. If anyone is undemocratic, it's brexiteers.

How do you get rid of Mark Carney, if I may ask?

You can't....I can't....Just like you can't get rid of Juncker and I can't get rid of Juncker.

Presumably you're also a huge supporter of The House of Lords ?

 

[Ubik]

Never stop taking about it....

Tony Benn, probably the best politico of his generation, talking about why he was opposed to the EU.

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?
WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?
IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?
TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?
HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

Only Democracy gives us that right. That is why no one with power likes democracy and that is why every generation must struggle to win it and keep it – including you and me, here and now.



So how do any of us get rid of an EU Commissioner - especially the slimeball drunk from Luxemburg ??

Answer - we can't, because there are no elections for Commissioners !!

Then again, he also said he greatly admired Mao, "the greatest man of the 20th century". Maybe his commitment to democracy wasn't unwavering.

 

[pierrethesnack]

So how do any of us get rid of an EU Commissioner - especially the slimeball drunk from Luxemburg ??

The same way you get rid of the police commisioner, the party leader of the party of your choice, the headmaster and the chief of the central bank.

 

[Abizzz]

You can't....I can't....Just like you can't get rid of Juncker and I can't get rid of Juncker.

Presumably you're also a huge supporter of The House of Lords ?

So you want to get rid of the Bank of England too? I presume that must be why brexiteers put the pound in the UKIP logo? Finally it makes sense... (I'm being sarcastic, for the record)

I don't hold strong views about the house of lords, to be honest.

 

[JPRouve]

WHAT POWER HAVE YOU GOT?
WHERE DID YOU GET IT FROM?
IN WHOSE INTERESTS DO YOU EXERCISE IT?
TO WHOM ARE YOU ACCOUNTABLE?
HOW CAN WE GET RID OF YOU?

1. From the EU council.
2. In theory for EU citizens.
3. To the EU council and the EU parliament.
4. By electing different head of states(presidents or PMs).

 

[Full bodied red]

And the answer to the 5th question is ??

Or should that be the 1st question ??

 

[Full bodied red]

Guys....

This thread is supposed to be about Macron.

Let's take all the EU crap over to the BREXIT thread.

 

[Raoul]

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[Raoul]

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[Sigma]

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How did he not laugh when he said that?

 

[Ubik]

Pretty guaranteed popular foreign policy for the next few years would just be to just troll Trump.

 

[Full bodied red]

Really doesn't matter who you vote for here, they've ALL got history...

http://www.politico.eu/article/rich...-calls-for-resignation-over-nepotism-scandal/

 

[Raoul]

http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/p...manuel-macron-1.3094792#.WTXuSMTznHk.facebook

 

[Green_Red]

Trump wriggled out of it.

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It's like a qvc advert for tiny hands

 

[Adisa]

Macron is a disgrace. You can't lecture people then roll out the red carpet for Sisi.

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[JPRouve]

Macron is a disgrace. You can't lecture people then roll out the red carpet for Sisi.

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You are taking France way too seriously, you actually think that we give a damn about moral or justice on the international scene?

 

[RedTiger]

Macron is a disgrace. You can't lecture people then roll out the red carpet for Sisi.

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Good old France. Is Sisi getting the go ahead to carve up Libya?

 

[MadMike]

Good old France. Is Sisi getting the go ahead to carve up Libya?

It's already carved up though.

 

[Hammerfell]

This thread aged well.

 

[Eboue]

can't believe I just now saw this title

 

[FireballXL5]

It's just business as usual...

https://www.dw.com/en/frances-macron-defends-arms-sales-to-egypt-despite-rights-concerns/a-55846151

 

[africanspur]

Macron is a disgrace. You can't lecture people then roll out the red carpet for Sisi.

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Honestly feel so disgusted every time I see that mass murderer's face around the world receiving all the trappings of being head of state.

 

[Vidyoyo]

"Tiny French President".

 

[Hammerfell]

can't believe I just now saw this title

It's been sneakily changed now.

 

[Buster15]

You are taking France way too seriously, you actually think that we give a damn about moral or justice on the international scene?

Well you must love Boris then.

 

[JPRouve]

Well you must love Boris then.

Why would France, as in the governing body, love Boris?

I think that you may have missed the point, France has never cared about others, everything done on the international scene is to serve the interests of France or the interests of the people in charge. Do not expect any morality, everything is done for money and power.