England Cricket Winter 2017/18 - Ashes & NZ

[ArmchairCritic]

Right in light of absolutely nothing being learnt from the English summer and a few one-day games that will probably be washed out it's probably worthwhile kicking off the discussion on the Ashes tour. The winter itinerary is as thus:

November

4-5 v Western Australia XI, Perth (Waca)

8-11 v Cricket Australia XI, Adelaide (d/n)

15-18 v Cricket Australia XI, Townsville

23-27 1st Test, Brisbane (00:00 GMT)

December

2-6 2nd Test, Adelaide (d/n) (04:00 GMT)

9-10 v Cricket Australia XI, Perth (venue TBC)

14-18 3rd Test, Perth (Waca) (02:30 GMT)

26-30 4th Test, Melbourne (23:30 GMT, 25-29 Dec)

January

4-8 5th Test, Sydney (23:30 GMT, 3-7 Jan)

11 v Cricket Australia XI, Sydney (venue TBC)

14 1st ODI, Melbourne (03:20 GMT)

19 2nd ODI, Brisbane (04:20 GMT)

21 3rd ODI, Sydney (03:20 GMT)

26 4th ODI, Adelaide (03:50 GMT)

28 5th ODI, Perth (venue TBC)* (06:20 GMT)

February (all matches are Twenty20)

2 Prime Minister's XI v England, Canberra (23:00 GMT, 1 Feb)

3 Australia v New Zealand, Sydney (07:00 GMT)

7 Australia v England, Hobart (07:00 GMT)

10 Australia v England, Melbourne (07:00 GMT)

14 New Zealand v England, Wellington (Westpac Stadium) (06:00 GMT)

16 New Zealand v Australia, Auckland (06:00 GMT)

18 New Zealand v England, Hamilton (06:00 GMT)

21 Final, Auckland (06:00 GMT)

February (NZ Tour)

25 1st ODI, Hamilton (d/n) (01:00 GMT)

28 2nd ODI, Napier (d/n) (01:00 GMT)

March

3 3rd ODI, Wellington (Westpac Stadium) (d/n) (01:00 GMT)

7 4th ODI, Dunedin (22:00 GMT, 6 Mar)

10 5th ODI, Christchurch (22:00 GMT, 9 Mar)

22-26 1st Test, Auckland (d/n) (01:00 GMT)

30-3 Apr 2nd Test, Christchurch (22:00 GMT, 29 Mar-2 Apr)

That's 7 tests, 10 ODI's and 5 T20's I think. England squad announcement for the Ashes will probably be at the end of the month and it'll be around 15-17 men.

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's all a bit of a mess isn't it?

Stoneman's going, and I think Malan's probably done enough to go and get torn to pieces too. Has Westley's 30 odd today saved him? Probably, but does anyone have any confidence in him going and doing well? Probably not.

I'd imagine Liam Livingstone is going, maybe, but will his shit show in the T20s count against him? Again, probably.

Tbh, at this point I'd be tempted to stick Stokes at 3.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

If I'd held any sway and could select a squad of 15-17 I'd take:

A.Cook
M.Stoneman
H.Hameed
T.Westley (Not confident in him nor Ballance, Hameed could end up batting @ 3 here if he finds further form in tour games)
J.Root (C)
B.Stokes
A.Hales (as a no. 5)
J.Bairstow (WK)
B.Foakes (backup WK)
M.Ali
S.Patel (not enthused by Rashid and I don't want to break Crane so take the symmetrical Moeen instead)
C.Woakes
S.Broad
T. Roland-Jones
J. Anderson
J.Porter (57 wickets @ 18.31 in Div 1.)

 

[zing]

England play way too much cricket.

I feel like this is the most balanced Ashes in awhile.

 

[NinjaFletch]

England play way too much cricket.

I feel like this is the most balanced Ashes in awhile.

I'm pretty sure we're going to get hammered again tbh with you.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

England play way too much cricket.

I feel like this is the most balanced Ashes in awhile.

Test vs Pakistan in May straight after this, then India in errr August. Might as well do a India/Pak test series in between IMO.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

It's all a bit of a mess isn't it?

Stoneman's going, and I think Malan's probably done enough to go and get torn to pieces too. Has Westley's 30 odd today saved him? Probably, but does anyone have any confidence in him going and doing well? Probably not.

I'd imagine Liam Livingstone is going, maybe, but will his shit show in the T20s count against him? Again, probably.

Tbh, at this point I'd be tempted to stick Stokes at 3.

Stoneman's got a good character I think and will hold up well, if Hameed shows some form I can envisage a top 3 of Cook/Stoneman/Hameed. For me the fragility of the batting means Samit goes as a backup spinner ahead of Dawson, not a wicket taking option but I don't think spin wins you too many tests in Australia, Dawson would be my 17th man however.

I think we'll get battered and Bayliss will get sacked.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

My sneaky tip to surprise for this tour is Roland-Jones. He won't play until the 3rd test when England are 2-0 down but his bounce will surprise people and he might edge out Woakes for the 3rd seamer spot by the end of the tour.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Stoneman's got a good character I think and will hold up well, if Hameed shows some form I can envisage a top 3 of Cook/Stoneman/Hameed. For me the fragility of the batting means Samit goes as a backup spinner ahead of Dawson, not a wicket taking option but I don't think spin wins you too many tests in Australia, Dawson would be my 17th man however.

I think we'll get battered and Bayliss will get sacked.

My sneaky tip to surprise for this tour is Roland-Jones. He won't play until the 3rd test when England are 2-0 down but his bounce will surprise people and he might edge out Woakes for the 3rd seamer spot by the end of the tour.

Probably not the worst prediction (the first one), but not sure about the second.

I think Roland-Jones just isn't quick enough to be a threat on these pitches, and his extra bounce will just make him easy to get after. Could be wrong, but Tremlett got flogged when they picked him for that reason after his pace had gone.

Tbh, the bowling is as big a worry as the batting for this one for me. Anderson has had one good tour there (it was a very good tour though), and I'd back him to be wily enough to survive without really being a threat. Broad's a medium pacer these days (and I'm not sure he's even in my first choice England team right now), Wood could probably be a threat at his best, but it's been a long time since we've seen it. I think Woakes will do alright, and Stokes should go ok too but it's hard to see where the threat with the ball is coming from in Aussie conditions unless Broad has one of his ridiculous spells every test match.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Probably not the worst prediction (the first one), but not sure about the second.

I think Roland-Jones just isn't quick enough to be a threat on these pitches, and his extra bounce will just make him easy to get after. Could be wrong, but Tremlett got flogged when they picked him for that reason after his pace had gone.

Tbh, the bowling is as big a worry as the batting for this one for me. Anderson has had one good tour there (it was a very good tour though), and I'd back him to be wily enough to survive without really being a threat. Broad's a medium pacer these days (and I'm not sure he's even in my first choice England team right now), Wood could probably be a threat at his best, but it's been a long time since we've seen it. I think Woakes will do alright, and Stokes should go ok too but it's hard to see where the threat with the ball is coming from in Aussie conditions unless Broad has one of his ridiculous spells every test match.

That's the thing with TRJ he seems kind of innocuous but does get some kick and I wouldn't say he's much slower than Broad nor Anderson but that isn't saying much right now. He is a tad expensive but I've just got a good feeling about him.

Yeah Woakes needs a bit of rhythm right now and Stokes will be probably be our enforcer. Porter from Essex has to go for me, most in-form bowler. Would also like a look at Archer from Sussex who was out-bowling Philander earlier in the season, might see him in the shorter formats. I wouldn't take Wood because he might break down, he's not suited to tests I don't think. Finn's time has gone and he should have left Middlesex IMO to get a fresh start somewhere else. Ball is solid if unspectacular but might get a call because they know him. Outside of all them I think C.Overton is the next best shout. Not an awful lot of experience to draw from.

I think the bowling will depend on the batting though, if the pitches are roads then our batting needs to step up and keep the game even rather than give the quicks a thankless task. Tosses will be important. Also need to give Mo lots of confidence, could play a decisive role nicking out key wickets and scoring useful lower-order runs (needs to be ready for those bouncers).

 

[NinjaFletch]

That's the thing with TRJ he seems kind of innocuous but does get some kick and I wouldn't say he's much slower than Broad nor Anderson but that isn't saying much right now. He is a tad expensive but I've just got a good feeling about him.

Yeah Woakes needs a bit of rhythm right now and Stokes will be probably be our enforcer. Porter from Essex has to go for me, most in-form bowler. Would also like a look at Archer from Sussex who was out-bowling Philander earlier in the season, might see him in the shorter formats. I wouldn't take Wood because he might break down, he's not suited to tests I don't think. Finn's time has gone and he should have left Middlesex IMO to get a fresh start somewhere else. Ball is solid if unspectacular but might get a call because they know him. Outside of all them I think C.Overton is the next best shout. Not an awful lot of experience to draw from.

I think the bowling will depend on the batting though, if the pitches are roads then our batting needs to step up and keep the game even rather than give the quicks a thankless task. Tosses will be important. Also need to give Mo lots of confidence, but play a decisive role nicking out key wickets and scoring useful lower-order runs (needs to be ready for those bouncers).

Oh I agree that TRJ is a good bowler, just not convinced he's suited to Aussie conditions is all.

Porter's a weird one because I know people that played with him when he was on the fringes at Essex so it's hard to think of him as a good bowler if that makes sense? His action looked a bit high maintenance when I've seen him on TV so I'd be worried about him breaking down in Tests, but I think his injury record is good. Either way he's surely worth a go somewhere, just not sure it should be Australia.

I think Archer has to wait a bit to get UK citizenship, but he's a good player. Don't really rate Ball, think he lacks weapons, but he's got a nice action and he might grow into the side a bit.

On the last point, I think the point to remember is despite being roads they are pitches that suit their bowlers more than ours so it's always going to be tougher for our batsman than theirs. We got whitewashed last time out, but actually had them in some pretty difficult situations but their lower order bailed them out. Had we had bowlers as good in those conditions as Harris and Johnson we'd probably have won the series despite our batting.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Oh I agree that TRJ is a good bowler, just not convinced he's suited to Aussie conditions is all.

Porter's a weird one because I know people that played with him when he was on the fringes at Essex so it's hard to think of him as a good bowler if that makes sense? His action looked a bit high maintenance when I've seen him on TV so I'd be worried about him breaking down in Tests, but I think his injury record is good. Either way he's surely worth a go somewhere, just not sure it should be Australia.

I think Archer has to wait a bit to get UK citizenship, but he's a good player. Don't really rate Ball, think he lacks weapons, but he's got a nice action and he might grow into the side a bit.

On the last point, I think the point to remember is despite being roads they are pitches that suit their bowlers more than ours so it's always going to be tougher for our batsman than theirs. We got whitewashed last time out, but actually had them in some pretty difficult situations but their lower order bailed them out. Had we had bowlers as good in those conditions as Harris and Johnson we'd probably have won the series despite our batting.

All this debate and we've forgotten about the atrocious fielding we saw vs. the West Indies, something silly like 15 dropped catches. In Australia where the ball really carries we have to be way better in our fielding and I think Cook should not be a slip anymore. Also short-leg comes into play here off the quicks and at this moment in time we don't have a designated fielder for this role. Considering the very first thing Bayliss did when he rocked up was a shed load of fielding work it is surprising at how poor it currently is.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Having watched Porter properly in the televised Essex match there's no way he should go to Australia. He has a classical British skillset and he'll get nothing out of the pitches over there.

 

[DOTA]

Having watched Porter properly in the televised Essex match there's no way he should go to Australia. He has a classical British skillset and he'll get nothing out of the pitches over there.

What sort of pace?

 

[NinjaFletch]

What sort of pace?

High 70s/Low 80s (maybe a touch slower)and not that tall either so doesn't get much bounce. Pitches it up and looks for movement and bowls with decent accuracy.

 

[DOTA]

High 70s/Low 80s (maybe a touch slower)and not that tall either so doesn't get much bounce. Pitches it up and looks for movement and bowls with decent accuracy.

That doesn't sound much like an international bowler, let alone one who could succeed in Australia.

 

[NinjaFletch]

That doesn't sound much like an international bowler, let alone one who could succeed in Australia.

Dunno, it's hard to argue with the weight of wickets he's taken over the last few seasons and he's got good batsmen our consistently. I guess Philander is a good example of a bowler like that being able to succeed in international cricket, but he is the exception rather than the rule.

Not at all convinced he'll get a run in the side whilst Jimmy's still knocking around though.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

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[ArmchairCritic]

That team is going to get hammered. Serious lack of experience outside of the main guys and with Malan/Ballance/Vince a nothing middle-order.

 

[EdWeatherall]

And a big cloud over Ben Stokes right now

 

[Snowjoe]

The real question is what on earth was he doing in Mbargo of all clubs. It’s shite.

 

[welshmanc75]

Ballance and Vince going is a joke. Ballance has been found out at international level and Vince hasn't scored a bucketful of runs this year and didn't really impress on his first test run.

 

[ChrisNelson]

Confirmed England squad for the Ashes:

Joe Root (capt), Alastair Cook, Mark Stoneman, Dawid Malan, Gary Ballance, James Vince, Ben Stokes, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Ben Foakes (wk), Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson, Jake Ball, Mason Crane, Craig Overton.

 

[paulscholes18]

Nice to see foakes get a call up as he averages over 40 in FC cricket, would have picked Liam Livingstone over James Vince and Hales over Ballance but he is Joe Root’s mate so not really surprised

Cook
Stoneman
Ballance
Root
Malan
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson

AUS 5-0 Eng

 

[ChrisNelson]

Also pleased re: Foakes but I think you would struggle to find many England cricket fans who would prefer to see Ballance in the side over Hales. Same goes for Vince - the omission of Hales is a strange one for me.
Bowling wise it's a shame no Wood or TRJ as this weakens us a lot in terms of backup bowlers.
I think the selectors have taken the view that Australian pitches don't spin the way they used to (perhaps they don't see the need to produce a turning pitch since Warne retired) and have stuck in Mason Crane as the only other spin option to Moeen although this was probably quite predictable.
I don't think we will lose 5-0 but it's going to be a tough series and we can do without Stokes, one of the most important players in the team, getting in any further trouble before or during the tour.

 

[ha_rooney]

That’s a weak squad. Shame for TRJ as I think he’d have done well in Australia.

Ballance must be on his 5th chance in Test cricket. Vince is a weird selection.

Might be the worst ashes in a while in terms of quality on both sides. Neither team is great.

 

[welshmanc75]

That’s a weak squad. Shame for TRJ as I think he’d have done well in Australia.

Ballance must be on his 5th chance in Test cricket. Vince is a weird selection.

Might be the worst ashes in a while in terms of quality on both sides. Neither team is great.

When Aggers calls it one of the weakest squads he can remember, you know it's weak

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I thought Vince was picked as a last throw of the dice at number 3 but he doesn't even bat there for Hampshire!

 

[Xaviesta]

I'm confident Australia will win the Ashes series 3-1.

 

[Snowjoe]

Malan just out for 0, good way to mark your selection.

 

[paulscholes18]

Why was Crane picked over Leach
Crane 16 wickets at an avg of 44
Leach 66 wickets at 19

 

[NinjaFletch]

It's a crap squad.

Vince was cannon fodder last season and has had an ordinary time of it again this year; I just don't think he's a very good player.

Ball has nothing to trouble a batsman in Australia.

Stokes may not be allowed to travel so that's a huge loss.

No one has confidence that Ballance will go well.

No pace in the bowling line up at all.

Untested leg spinner with an ordinary first class record (yes he did well in club cricket in Australia etc...)

Malan is ordinary.

Think Overton and Foakes are good picks over the alternatives, but it's not enough. We'll be lucky to win a match I think.

 

[KM]

Aussies should win easily IMO. Can't believe Ballance and Vince are back.

 

[KM]

Why was Crane picked over Leach
Crane 16 wickets at an avg of 44
Leach 66 wickets at 19

Pretty sure his non selection is to do with the doubts over his action. Nothing else makes sense.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Pretty sure his non selection is to do with the doubts over his action. Nothing else makes sense.

It's because he plays at Somerset and it spins there.

Last season he took 45 of his 60 odd wickets at Taunton, and I can't find stats for this season but I know it's a similar ratio.

He might be the best spinner in the country, but he's not as far ahead of the pack as his stats would suggest.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I'm confident Australia will win the Ashes series 3-1.

4-0 to Aus I reckon with an inquest to follow and Bayliss to get sacked.

Fingers crossed I'm wrong.

 

[zing]

Seen this sort of selection strategy go wrong so often.

Looks a bit "Maybe they'll surprise us" but then at the end of it, you realize there's mostly one way to runs and wickets in test cricket - the hard grind of domestic cricket.

I hope it's the former - would like to see a good series.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/b...hes-selections-ben-stokes-root-ballance-vince

Vic Marks has written in the Guardian about the squad and it's hard to disagree with him. If Moeen got injured, would you let Crane play as the specialist spinner? Nope..

Could be a 5-0 if Stokes is ruled out as well.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Just seen the video on The Sun.

No way stokes plays in the ashes, what an idiot.

 

[sammsky1]

Just seen the video on The Sun.

No way stokes plays in the ashes, what an idiot.

 

[Fergies Gum]

What a nutcase. Losing the plot like that so close to the Ashes series and putting yourself at huge risk of being kicked out of the team

It'll be shocking if the police don't charge him for this.