England pre Euro 2020

[SilentWitness]

So who needs phased out and drafted into the side?

GK: I think Pickford is still a solid choice. He has his brainfarts but his end of season form was very strong and last night I think he played fairly well. He nearly made-up for Stones terrible error for the 2nd goal and tried his best with the 3rd. Butland and someone like Henderson coming through the U-21 ranks to provide competition will be helpful.

RB: TAA should have this spot nailed down. I'd hook Trippier out of the squad entirely and have Walker or AWB as competition. Depending on how next season goes for AWB he should push Walker out the side.

LB: Rose, Chillwell and Shaw. Difficult position as there is no clear choice here for me. Each are operating at a similar level. I'd like it to be either Chillwell or Shaw due to their ages so hopefully they both have strong seasons.

CB: Again, CB is still an issue for England. I miss Rio/Terry/Campbell etc. I really do not trust most 2 man defensive combos that we could conjure. Both Stones and Maguire still need a player beside them who is better/more experienced to help them out as neither of them for me are dominant enough. The way Gomez began the 18/19 season at CB gives hope though that he can displace one and honestly Keane finished the season very strongly too. I definitely think that Gomez needs to play in a 2-man defence and then the other spot should be Maguire/Keane. Stones should only play if we have a 3 man defence and he can be the one of the trio who evolves into a CB/DM type. Isn't really anything to shout about though.

CM: Almost as bad as the CBs. Henderson should be a guaranteed starter. I'm pissed off that RLC is injured because he should be starting beside Henderson and then we have the platform to play someone like Maddison and have them as a trio which from the choices right now is probably our best. Both Rice and Dier are limited but there our only 'DM' type players so I'd probably have one of them in the squad. Delph should be out as should Barkley (Loved him at Everton and glimpses at Chelsea but he just isn't good enough right now). Lingard and Alli are just meh for me. Good players, aye, but also have limitations. Maddison overrides both of their limitations I think. Players like Choudhury can possibly stake a claim if they have a big season because of the Rice/Dier limitation. I'm forgetting about Oxlade-Chamberlain even...

LW/RW: Sancho and Sterling are easy picks. Rashford as a utility player across the 3 top spots is another easy pick. Hudson-Odoi as another and this is probably the easiest position to choose. People like Gray and Neilson if he has another loan season or plays at Arsenal can provide stiff competition which is good.

ST: Kane clearly. Yeah, he's had a rough past few weeks but this is a bloke that has score 20+ goals for 5 seasons in a row, we don't have any other player like that and haven't since Shearer, easy choice. Wilson is an alright back-up and hopefully Abraham and DCL will have big 19-20 seasons. I think that DCL especially could be a great option if he picks up his scoring rate - even if he doesn't in this England side I think our wingers would absolutely thrive off of him.

So where does that leave a formation...?

-------------------------Pickford (Henderson)----------------------------
TAA (AWB)-----------Gomez (Stones)------Maguire/Keane---Chillwell/Shaw
--------------Henderson (Choudhury)----RLC (Rice)-----------------------
-----------------------------Maddison (Alli/Lingard)-------------------------
Sterling (CHO)----------------Kane (Wilson)------------Sancho (Rashford)

Playing with a 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 formation I think that's the best we can offer right now. Obviously with RLCs injury it is going to be tight for him to make it if he does at all. IF Oxlade-Chamberlain comes back this season strongly he could also be an option in the centre beside Henderson tbf but I think another phase needs to happen and if Southgate doesn't do it then he's going against the principles he stated at the start when he was getting rid of people like Smalling/not capping Deeney (Not that I think he shold gave got a cap) etc.

EDIT: Also, I would consider people like Foden to be more talented than Rice for example but I think that the competition for the position Foden plays to be much stronger than the one Choudhury/Rice would face to get into the squad.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think we have to hope that Gomez kicks on next season. I can't really see any other centre backs coming through unless guys like Tuanzebe, Godfrey and Tomori can kick on.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Reece James. I think there's a possibility that stays at Chelsea next season. He can play as a ball playing centre back, (especially good in a 3, in midfield and at right back. He has a high talent level.

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I think we would really need Winks to be fit but that a big 'if'. I can't really see any other player of his type making it through in time.

Big question marks on how CHO and RLC come back from their horrific injuries.

AWB needs to be in the squad for me. He would have been invaluable last night at the end of the game.

Personally I don't think that Southgate should try to change the way that we play. I think what's need is a bit more common sense i.e. hoof it when we have to. I feel he's too idealistic considering the tools at his disposal.

Guys like Grealish and Maddison have a chance to show they belong in the senior squad next season. Grealish as a DLP interests me. A really press resistant player.

 

[DixieDean]

Still shite. The future is grim.

 

[saivet]

I think the big area is midfield. If players are fit and playing in the PL then the potential options are there.

Not sure who my trio would be but I'd strongly consider: Winks, Ox, Rice, Henderson, Loftus-Cheek and Maddison if fit.

A few other players can get in too depending on form like Dier, Dele, Foden, Barkley, Choudhry, Lingard and Mount.

I think the options are potentially quite good, nothing special but can be good enough.

The rest of the team picks itself apart from the CBs (which is a limited pool).

 

[SilentWitness]

Still shite. The future is grim.

I think in TAA, Kane, Sterling and Sancho we have 4 of the best players in their respective positions/generations in the world and I don't think it's too far fetched to say that - I don't think any of them are the out and out best but they're definitely up in the top 10 or 5. Portugal won Euro 2016 after drawing every group stage game and taking most of their knockout games including the final to ET or penalties so I don't think with this squad a good knockout showing is unattainable. Last night was poor but the Spain game in particular showed that our attacking trio and Henderson are capable of quality performances that are up there with any National side.

 

[Casanova85]

France, winners 2020.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

GK
Pickford
Butland
Third choice (Heaton, Pope, Henderson, whoever is playing well)

RB
TAA
AWB

LB
Chilwell
Shaw

CB
Gomez
Stones
Maguire
Keane

DM
Henderson
Rice

CM/AM
Alli
Winks
RLC
Maddison
Foden

WF
Sterling
Sancho
CHO
(Rashford)

CF
Kane
Rashford

Not a bad squad. I'd take the captains armband off Kane and put it on Henderson though.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I think in TAA, Kane, Sterling and Sancho we have 4 of the best players in their respective positions/generations in the world and I don't think it's too far fetched to say that - I don't think any of them are the out and out best but they're definitely up in the top 10 or 5. Portugal won Euro 2016 after drawing every group stage game and taking most of their knockout games including the final to ET or penalties so I don't think with this squad a good knockout showing is unattainable. Last night was poor but the Spain game in particular showed that our attacking trio and Henderson are capable of quality performances that are up there with any National side.

Who’s better than TAA and Sancho in their age group and position, they’re both outright best, Sterling too possibly between 21-25.

 

[saivet]

GK
Pickford
Butland
Third choice (Heaton, Pope, Henderson, whoever is playing well)

RB
TAA
AWB

LB
Chilwell
Shaw

CB
Gomez
Stones
Maguire
Keane

DM
Henderson
Rice

CM/AM
Alli
Winks
RLC
Maddison
Foden

WF
Sterling
Sancho
CHO
(Rashford)

CF
Kane
Rashford

Not a bad squad. I'd take the captains armband off Kane and put it on Henderson though.

Looks a good squad. I doubt Foden will get enough minutes to justify him in the squad. Hopefully The Ox can come back and he'd slot in nicely.

 

[bosnian_red]

It's still the same issue as the recent past IMO. Lacking the required quality, intelligence, ability, creativity and dynamic players in their 4 core central positions. Brilliant options that any country would love to have at fullback, wings and up top begin current ability, potential, and in variety. Goalkeeper is fine. It's the center backs and center mids.

For CBs, best hope is Joe Gomez can become not injury prone and continues to develop, but that's past euro 2020 IMO. Midfield I don't think Rice has the right profile of player to turn into that player, plus hes very young still. I dont see the right type of players in midfield though, whether it's a 2 or a 3, apart from Foden as a creative mid who is far away still.

Best case scenario for challenging would be for a few things to really click together in the next few years, but 2022 World Cup just looks more realistic to properly challenge by having a complete and quality side. Of course, you can challenge for the euros anyway by being solid, having a good run of results and being clinical, but that's not the point of the discussion... anyway, I'd say a future 11 like this over the next few years looks very good, but the midfield and CBs just not being close to what a country like France or Netherlands have.

Sancho/Rashford Kane Sterling
Alli Henderson Maddison
Chilwell Maguire Gomez Alexander-Arnold
Pickford​

 

[SilentWitness]

Who’s better than TAA and Sancho in their age group and position, they’re both outright best, Sterling too possibly between 21-25.

TAA - Argument for Kimmich.
Sancho - Hazard.

In their age group I think they’re the best, yes.

 

[Righteous Steps]

TAA - Argument for Kimmich.
Sancho - Hazard.

In their age group I think they’re the best, yes.

Oh yh you meant that way, yh agree if so.

 

[RochaRoja]

Walker was absolutely horrible last night. If Alexander-Arnold doesn’t replace him next season, Southgate’s lost the plot.

 

[Libano]

TAA - Argument for Kimmich.
Sancho - Hazard.

In their age group I think they’re the best, yes.

There's no argument. Kimmich is just miles and miles better.

 

[Libano]

If you look at the big picture, with England youth squats winning left, right and centre, the future for English football looks very bright. Success is younger divisions is an excellent indicator for things to come - same thing happened to Spain and Germany before their respective title runs. Structurally, the FA has done a fine job reforming over the past few years, the fruits are starting to show.

A bad game doesn't change that.

 

[SilentWitness]

There's no argument. Kimmich is just miles and miles better.

Your post is exactly why there is an argument due to the extravagant hyperbole, but this isn't the thread for that.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If you look at the big picture, with England youth squats winning left, right and centre, the future for English football looks very bright. Success is younger divisions is an excellent indicator for things to come - same thing happened to Spain and Germany before their respective title runs. Structurally, the FA has done a fine job reforming over the past few years, the fruits are starting to show.

A bad game doesn't change that.

Truth be told the winning youth tournaments all happened in one summer. It was a crazy year for the underage sides. They lost only two games across all age groups and both were through penalty shoot outs. One vs Germany in the semi final of the u21 Euro and the other vs Spain in the u17 euro final.

Since then we've done less well. We've won plenty of mini tournaments but haven't won another major. Although we've had some very impressive performances and victories we've also been on the wrong end of some embarrassing defeats. I think the FA have become complacent and are dining out on that one remarkable year too much. They've also shown gross incompetence, mostly notably in this years u17s where they failed to get about 6 of best players properly registered! We've suffered from lack of cooperation with clubs not releasing players a bit too but there are a few worrying signs.

That said, the overall standard of player coming through is still unquestionably better.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Wonder if Grealish might kick on/get a big move and be in contention? Though like Maddison/Alli/RLC he's more an AM, where as we really need some quality in the DM/CM areas.

There's no argument. Kimmich is just miles and miles better.

No he isn't - it's easily debatable.

 

[SilentWitness]

Wonder if Grealish might kick on/get a big move and be in contention? Though like Maddison/Alli/RLC he's more an AM, where as we really need some quality in the DM/CM areas.

This is what's irritating for me. There is a wealth of talent in the CM -> AM spots with people like Maddison/Alli/RLC/Foden/Grealish/Mount/Ward-Prowse/Lingard etc., but the DM -> CM spots aren't as inspiring. The only one of those that i can see working well with Henderson in a midfield 2 is RLC, all the others I think need to be a bit more forward. Choudhury seemed to be playing well at the end of the season alongside Ndidi so hopefully he will kick on to strengthen that weakness.

 

[Coxy]

There's no argument. Kimmich is just miles and miles better.

It's not 'miles and miles' at all.

 

[Libano]

It's not 'miles and miles' at all.

Kimmich is a more versatile (excellent defensive midfielder, too), more dynamic and smarter player. Future captain of the German national team and the first name on their team sheet. He managed to replace Lahm pretty seamlessly. Arnold is a talent but far from the finished product and not even a guaranteed starter on the English team. The age difference absolutely shows. Kimmich tops him in almost every aspect of the game. I see him clearly ahead. This is my personal opinion, nothing more.

 

[ariveded]

How can you all forget Chamberlain? He may have a big injury, yet he offers something different from the midfield. If he is match fit, he should be 1st choice, he was LFC's best midfielder when he got inured.

 

[FootballHQ]

England lacks a tempo player who can speed and slow down the play when required. This isnt an attacking or DM btw as likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Pirlo, Modric and now De Jong aren't those types yet all the play feeds through them.

From what I've seen Foden may develop into that type but depends how much he plays next year. Winks is obviously at least a year ahead in his development.

You're talking about a player who's fearless in possesion and will keep things ticking over. It's mad to think Jack Wilshere is still only 28. In the first season of breaking through at Arsenal he looked exactly that type and has lost years of his career through injury so isn't even considered these days.

Likes of Grealish, Maddison, Mount and Ox are all attacking midfielders to me, playing them in a central two v a major nation and they'd all be exposed imo.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Think we saw tonight that TAA and Gomez are the future of that right side of defence. Encouraging thing about Gomez is that he's still totally rapid after all those injuries. Pretty much his whole game was on point tonight. Hopefully that was Delph's swansong. Walker was absolutely wretched in both games and pretty much kissed goodbye to his starting spot.

Just have to hope that things are looking up for the midfield next time round but realistically it seems unlikely.

 

[RochaRoja]

Think we saw tonight that TAA and Gomez are the future of that right side of defence. Encouraging thing about Gomez is that he's still totally rapid after all those injuries. Pretty much his whole game was on point tonight. Hopefully that was Delph's swansong. Walker was absolutely wretched in both games and pretty much kissed goodbye to his starting spot.

Just have to hope that things are looking up for the midfield next time round but realistically it seems unlikely.

Defence looked much better last night but let’s face it, Switzerland offered no threat whatsoever. They’re a poor side offensively.

 

[Snow]

I think Pickford is bad and shouldn't be one of the 3 keepers in the squad. He tries his best to give away a goal every match. I don't trust Bailly as a defender, I'd trust him even less if he were a keeper. That's Pickford for you.

England on paper are a top 5 side and should be challenging every trophy. Two world class attackers in Kane and Sterling backed up by occasional performers in Rashford and Alli and up and coming star Sancho. Very solid full backs, solid CBs with decent cover in all 4 positions at the back.

In the middle they have the least depth but their starting 3 is comparable to other big countries for the most part. There's some transtition in a few positions but England has the luxury of making that transition in a fairly easy group stage where they won't lose a single game.

I'd like to see Redmond given a shot. He carried the entire Southampton attack the whole season.

Defence looked much better last night but let’s face it, Switzerland offered no threat whatsoever. They’re a poor side offensively.

They're not poor, they're inconsistent. Seferovic is average but he had a banger of a group stage. Liverpool didn't play a fit Shaqiri for months so that's a chunk of threat taken care off mentally.

 

[Kag]

Southgate is a bit of fraud, isn’t he? A brilliant statesman but he’s dining out on the World Cup run.

The team selections are increasingly strange, particularly in central midfield and full back.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Just score ffs only team messing up the parlay

 

[Judas]

Southgate is a bit of fraud, isn’t he? A brilliant statesman but he’s dining out on the World Cup run.

The team selections are increasingly strange, particularly in central midfield and full back.

100%. With the talent we've got, we're underperforming, feel like that nearly every time we play anyone half decent.

 

[Zoo]

He’s not developing the team enough. They’ll get found out against the first good footballing side they meet.

 

[Kag]

100%. With the talent we've got, we're underperforming, feel like that nearly every time we play anyone half decent.

Yep.

A front three of Kane, Sancho and Sterling is right up there with anything in international football. The midfield options aren’t great but they’re capable of being serviceable, at the least. Especially when you’ve got attacking midfielders as good as Alli, Barkley, Mount and Maddison to choose from when fit. We’ve got some great full back options, too.

The football is rubbish, really.

 

[izec]

They are average for a big team/neation and not improving any more. There wont be any success with Southgate. Easy semi final was nice, but for the next step, you need a better manager. Compared to other teams, this side has some brilliant players and there are so many great young players currently coming through. If you can get this side playing good football and some consistency, they could be a contender. For now though, it just isnt good enough

 

[Carl]

How the feck is Maddison not walking into this team?

 

[Judas]

How the feck is Maddison not walking into this team?

He's injured or ill, so wasn't in the squad, otherwise I'd expect he'd have started.

 

[SCP]

The problem is the best English managers don’t want to stop their careers at club level to go into the NT. Anyway that’s not only a England problem, you just look at the current NT managers around the world and how many of them are great?

 

[dev1l]

The problem is the best English managers don’t want to stop their careers at club level to go into the NT. Anyway that’s not only a England problem, you just look at the current NT managers around the world and how many of them are great?

And who are the "best English managers"?

 

[Judas]

I'd love us to try and get Howe to become England manager.

 

[SCP]

And who are the "best English managers"?

Howe, Dyche, Potter? For the future maybe Lampard, Gerrard, don’t know much about the current Swansea manager, but he won a under 17 WC with England. There are different options, but how many want to leave club football anyway?

Sorry, Wilder and Dean Smith, forgot to mention them, they are more than competent.

 

[SilentWitness]

He's injured or ill, so wasn't in the squad, otherwise I'd expect he'd have started.

Yeah, but prior to that he’s been in squads and hasn’t had a sniff. It’s a joke.

 

[Judas]

Southgate has done what nearly all recent England managers have done, he's got his favourites and picked them even if they were in terrible form. It's the usual trap.