England squad (Games against Bulgaria and Kosovo)

SquishyMcSquish

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Can’t agree.
Maddison was far more impressive in the championship than Mount and I imagine will be far better than Mount across this season too.

Alright, ten times is obviously an exaggeration but Maddison is the more accomplished player, 100%. Have him playing for Chelsea and Mount for Leicester and Southgate is picking the former.
 

Dancfc

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Who do they play for at club level...

Mount is playing as a winger at Chelsea but he won’t play Maddison in CM
He's been flicking between both positions based on other personnel on the pitch.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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We're talking over the season, not just against Spurs.
It's probably assists he should be looking for so he can expand on that legendary 4 assist season in the championship.

Tough ask though with your strikers.
 

Lash

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Our midfield is fecking dross. Southgate is just starting to annoy me with his selections.
 

Dancfc

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It's probably assists he should be looking for so he can expand on that legendary 4 assist season in the championship.

Tough ask though with your strikers.
Shame we can't rely on Trippier anymore!
 

Classical Mechanic

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Mess of a game from England. Too many errors, defence and midfield just don’t cut it to play so expansive. I think when we go to their place we just get compact and counter, should be an easier night. Southgate isn’t one for pragmatism though.
 

InLevyITrust

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Maddison was far more impressive in the championship than Mount and I imagine will be far better than Mount across this season too.

Alright, ten times is obviously an exaggeration but Maddison is the more accomplished player, 100%. Have him playing for Chelsea and Mount for Leicester and Southgate is picking the former.
Maddison is 2 years older and wasn’t a loan player in the Championship, Maddison at the moment is overrated IMO time will tell.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Mess of a game from England. Too many errors, defence and midfield just don’t cut it to play so expansive. I think when we go to their place we just get compact and counter, should be an easier night. Southgate isn’t one for pragmatism though.
I don't think the setup was the issue at all. We should have scored 8 or 9.

An individual error gives away the first goal, and Maguire is a tit for the penalty with Rice also giving it away lazily.

A midfielder or two who can seriously pick out some of those runs and a bit more composure in the second half and we run away with it. Maybe TAA needs to drop back a little more but overall I think the problem is that some of those players thought the game was over and got complacent and at times were even going for glory rather than playing the pass - Sterling in particular guilty of this.
 

Kush

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Maddison was far more impressive in the championship than Mount and I imagine will be far better than Mount across this season too.

Alright, ten times is obviously an exaggeration but Maddison is the more accomplished player, 100%. Have him playing for Chelsea and Mount for Leicester and Southgate is picking the former.
Maddison is a good player but incredibly overrated on this board.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Maddison is 2 years older and wasn’t a loan player in the Championship, Maddison at the moment is overrated IMO time will tell.
Right now, Maddison is the better player.

Maybe Mason has real potential (honestly, beyond a couple of tidy finishes I'm not seeing it) but I struggle to see an area in which he's a better player here and now.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Maddison is a good player but incredibly overrated on this board.
Whether you think he's overrated or not, he's done more at this point in his career to deserve a chance than Mount has.

But Mount plays for Chelsea and scored a couple of goals, so in comes an easy call up. It's big team bias at its worst.
 

Classical Mechanic

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I don't think the setup was the issue at all. We should have scored 8 or 9.

An individual error gives away the first goal, and Maguire is a tit for the penalty with Rice also giving it away lazily.

A midfielder or two who can seriously pick out some of those runs and a bit more composure in the second half and we run away with it. Maybe TAA needs to drop back a little more but overall I think the problem is that some of those players thought the game was over and got complacent and at times were even going for glory rather than playing the pass - Sterling in particular guilty of this.
I don’t think we’re good enough in defensive transitions and that comes from the setup as much as the personnel. Sure the goals were errors but they played through us a lot more than that.
 

InLevyITrust

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Right now, Maddison is the better player.

Maybe Mason has real potential (honestly, beyond a couple of tidy finishes I'm not seeing it) but I struggle to see an area in which he's a better player here and now.
Time will tell, maybe I just dislike Maddison cause he is and looks like a detestable little scrote, it’s funny though that most Leicester mans would agree he was overrated last season.
 

InLevyITrust

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I don’t think we’re good enough in defensive transitions and that comes from the setup as much as the personnel. Sure the goals were errors but they played through us a lot more than that.
On a technical level they were a much better team, we’re lucky we had the world class talent that can punish teams. If we roll up against a top 5 side we will be ruined playing like that.
 

Jimmy Skitz

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Time will tell, maybe I just dislike Maddison cause he is and looks like a detestable little scrote, it’s funny though that most Leicester mans would agree he was overrated last season.
Maybe a little but no where close to the over hype of Mount after 4 games
 

SquishyMcSquish

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I don’t think we’re good enough in defensive transitions and that comes from the setup as much as the personnel. Sure the goals were errors but they played through us a lot more than that.
But on the other hand we missed a penalty and missed a whole host of chances. I don't think we have the personnel in terms of midfielders/defenders to be super dangerous going forward but also solid at the back, for it to be that way I believe we'd have to purposefully play a cautious style and I don't think that's the way forward.

Our midfield was atrocious today, as individuals. Only Rice was really coming out of it with credit until his lazy arse pass in the second half. We just have players there who are not comfortable with the ball at their feet and it shows when we're in possession, so much better when we get it forward quickly to the front three and can break.
 

InLevyITrust

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But on the other hand we missed a penalty and missed a whole host of chances. I don't think we have the personnel in terms of midfielders/defenders to be super dangerous going forward but also solid at the back, for it to be that way I believe we'd have to purposefully play a cautious style and I don't think that's the way forward.

Our midfield was atrocious today, as individuals. Only Rice was really coming out of it with credit until his lazy arse pass in the second half. We just have players there who are not comfortable with the ball at their feet and it shows when we're in possession, so much better when we get it forward quickly to the front three and can break.
Our midfield is no worse than Liverpool’s, I feel Southgate is lining England Up like they do, he doesn’t want his midfielders on the ball, he wants them to win and pass it on. I mean I’d say Henderson and Chamblerin will be starters for both teams, it’s silly to say they aren’t capable considering Liverpool won the CL.
 

Classical Mechanic

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On a technical level they were a much better team, we’re lucky we had the world class talent that can punish teams. If we roll up against a top 5 side we will be ruined playing like that.
I don’t think they were much better, some of our attacking transitions from back to front were lovely too. They reminded my of Belarus when Hleb played for them actually, lots of nice team passing transitions but little bite. The second goal was very nice though, liked the little touch to set up the shot.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Time will tell, maybe I just dislike Maddison cause he is and looks like a detestable little scrote, it’s funny though that most Leicester mans would agree he was overrated last season.
7 goals 7 assists in the league for a player who started to play more of a CM role when Tielemans arrived is pretty impressive. Especially for a player who had just come from the championship, and was playing in a struggling Leicester side till Rodgers arrived.

After said arrival I think he's really come on as a player and looks by far our most technically able midfielder except for maybe Alli, but he prefers to play further forward. He might be a scrote or whatever but give me him any day over Ross 'great till I have to make a decision' Barkley in that kind of most advanced midfielder role.

He can pick a pass, he's got a rocket of a shot on him, and all round he's a better footballer than any of the lads getting in that England midfield right now. Rice & Henderson .. ok fine whatever, a boring base ala Liverpool is OK but let's at least have one player in there who can play a bit, because Barkley is all head down and run in straight lines and nothing else.
 

Kush

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Whether you think he's overrated or not, he's done more at this point in his career to deserve a chance than Mount has.

But Mount plays for Chelsea and scored a couple of goals, so in comes an easy call up. It's big team bias at its worst.
I don't deny any of that, just that I don't think the gap between the two is that wide that Maddison is an obvious bench option over Mount.
 

SquishyMcSquish

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Our midfield is no worse than Liverpool’s, I feel Southgate is lining England Up like they do, he doesn’t want his midfielders on the ball, he wants them to win and pass it on. I mean I’d say Henderson and Chamblerin will be starters for both teams, it’s silly to say they aren’t capable considering Liverpool won the CL.
Fabinho is significantly better than Rice. Rate the lad as a DM but Fabinho's passing range is much better, he's arguably the best in the world in his role.

And Wijnaldum is better than Barkley too. Liverpool's midfield is somewhat average but they blend together pretty well, I don't think ours is really working as a three.

We also can't necessarily play the same way Liverpool can when Liverpool have VVD who is a monster of a ball playing defender (Maguire is ok, but .. let's be real) and Matip isn't half bad on the ball either. Gomez should obviously be starting for England ASAP instead of Keane and that should help things.

Yet to be seen whether the Ox gets back to his old self.
 

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The second England team (vs Kosovo) definitely more enjoyable to watch than the team we had against Bulgaria.

Still hate the Henderson Rice partnership, it doesn't work.
 

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The forward line is as good or better than anything else in International football. Sterling, Kane, Sancho, and Rashford for three spots. fecking outstanding.

The midfield is appalling though. Barkley has decent technical ability but has his head down too much, and his final ball is poor. Henderson, despite being a superb role player for Klopp (a genius manager), is a dreadful footballer. And Rice is extremely technically limited. We play a lot of possession football. These two players aren’t suited at all. The don’t treat the ball with enough care. For the third goal, Rice lazily gave it away; and then Henderson was caught misjudging his position and header like an amateur player in Sunday league, before being turned inside out for good measure.

TAA was awful today, but is generally a fantastic fullback. And Michael Keane is never good enough. Gives me kittens to see him in the line up.

England are two CMs and a CB away from being the best team in Europe IMO. But those weaknesses are glaring. I hope by next summer one of Mount or Foden can step up to become the playmaker we desperately need. But it’s probably too soon for them. Maddison is extremely overrated.
 

RochaRoja

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Maddison’s tactic of getting a sleeve tattoo, a wanker haircut and the shittest attempt at growing a beard since Adam Lallana to convince people he’s a better footballer than he is has been really successful on this forum.
 

Champ

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The forward line is as good or better than anything else in International football. Sterling, Kane, Sancho, and Rashford for three spots. fecking outstanding.

The midfield is appalling though. Barkley has decent technical ability but has his head down too much, and his final ball is poor. Henderson, despite being a superb role player for Klopp (a genius manager), is a dreadful footballer. And Rice is extremely technically limited. We play a lot of possession football. These two players aren’t suited at all. The don’t treat the ball with enough care. For the third goal, Rice lazily gave it away; and then Henderson was caught misjudging his position and header like an amateur player in Sunday league, before being turned inside out for good measure.

TAA was awful today, but is generally a fantastic fullback. And Michael Keane is never good enough. Gives me kittens to see him in the line up.

England are two CMs and a CB away from being the best team in Europe IMO. But those weaknesses are glaring. I hope by next summer one of Mount or Foden can step up to become the playmaker we desperately need. But it’s probably too soon for them. Maddison is extremely overrated.
Mount and Foden are equally overrated.
 

Dancfc

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Maybe a little but no where close to the over hype of Mount after 4 games
Maddison got a MOTM award at Stamford Bridge despite spending a whole half systematically pissing up his final ball in a way that would make Adama Traore blush and has a whole nation currently outraged on his behalf.

He's not exactly lacking in hype himself.
 

RochaRoja

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It’s almost as if the guy who has coached both players and followed them through the England under-age systems he oversees during the past six years might have a more informed opinion on how each of them might fit into his set-up more than some gobshite from TalkSport.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Too young to say that surely? And I did say that the hope is that they will develop to the level we need. Not at the level they are.
It is but I don't see as either that will address the fundamental problem with England's midfield as they both operate better closer to goal. Its at the base of midfield where we lack with press resistance and ball playing skills. We need someone like De Jong but we seldom produce such players due to our football culture. There's really only Jimmy Garner in the junior sides that really has this kind of style.
 

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It is but I don't see as either that will address the fundamental problem with England's midfield as they both operate better closer to goal. Its at the base of midfield where we lack with press resistance and ball playing skills. We need someone like De Jong but we seldom produce such players due to our football culture. There's really only Jimmy Garner in the junior sides that really has this kind of style.
And I was going to mention him. But he’s a million miles away from being ready to make an impact for England. I empathise with your point.
 

Classical Mechanic

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And I was going to mention him. But he’s a million miles away from being ready to make an impact for England. I empathise with your point.
I don't really see a solution in the short term for the next Euros. There's Winks and maybe he'll use him against a side like Holland but it seems that Southgate wants to play like Liverpool. It kind of makes sense given the strength of our front 3 and agricultural midfield options but we lack a VVD rock at the back.

Fact is that Holland put on the high press and penned us in in the Nations League and that was the key to them controlling the game.

We could counter that kind of problem by ditching playing out from the back, putting someone like Abraham up front and hitting him long. Southgate is more of an idealist and adverse to such solutions, however. Personally I'm always in favour of a plan B.
 

Righteous Steps

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I don't really see a solution in the short term for the next Euros. There's Winks and maybe he'll use him against a side like Holland but it seems that Southgate wants to play like Liverpool. It kind of makes sense given the strength of our front 3 and agricultural midfield options but we lack a VVD rock at the back.

Fact is that Holland put on the high press and penned us in in the Nations League and that was the key to them controlling the game.

We could counter that kind of problem by ditching playing out from the back, putting someone like Abraham up front and hitting him long. Southgate is more of an idealist and adverse to such solutions, however. Personally I'm always in favour of a plan B.
The comparison to Liverpool keeps coming up, but England don't have a midfielder like Wijnaldum or Fabinho either...

I think the way to combat it would be to play a out and out DM and combine that with Winks the one deep lying playmaker we have ans another attacking CM like Maddison or Chamberlain who can also playmake, De Jong is a very unique player and there is more than one way to skin the cat, France didn't have that type of player and manage to still win the World Cup.
 

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It’s almost as if the guy who has coached both players and followed them through the England under-age systems he oversees during the past six years might have a more informed opinion on how each of them might fit into his set-up more than some gobshite from TalkSport.
Going by that no one should complain about Lingard starting for ManUtd/England.