England squad (Games against Czech Republic and Montenegro) | Rashford and Shaw called up

[Red4Ever]

What does that even mean? I get that you're bitter, but I struggle to see the overhyping.

England are overhyped
It’s plain English bro easy to understand

They generally fail on the big stage and haven’t won anything in 50 years

Why would I be bitter? I’d like to see England do well

I come from a country who are terrible at the moment
But we know that

 

[Red4Ever]

That describes it.

England have a very good side right now. And probably your best manager in years who actually has a clue about what he is trying to do.

Winning tournaments usually does come with some luck but this England team are contendors for sure.

He is better than Big Sam
I’ll give you that.....

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

England are overhyped
It’s plain English bro easy to understand

They generally fail on the big stage and haven’t won anything in 50 years

Why would I be bitter? I’d like to see England do well

I come from a country who are terrible at the moment
But we know that

Are you implying England are also terrible and we don't know it?

There's no comparison between the current England side and the current Ireland one, unless the comparison is Ireland are much much worse than England.

 

[Dante]

England are overhyped
It’s plain English bro easy to understand

They generally fail on the big stage and haven’t won anything in 50 years

Why would I be bitter? I’d like to see England do well

I come from a country who are terrible at the moment
But we know that

But who's overhyping them and in what way?

There's definitely potential in the side and excitement about what they can achieve, so that's what people are discussing. No different to any other team in world sport.

You seem to misunderstand the English mentality. Nobody expects us to win anything. The 'big 4' are Brazil, Germany, Italy and Spain. England are in the next tier down where we hope to be competetive but that's about it.

Look at the last World Cup. The country lost its shit over a semi final. We know that's our level. Also, our most famous song is Three Lions song which, for some reason, cited as a sign of arrogance. That's despite the fact it's about how crap the National Team is and how we always fails. If you want an idea of where England stands, that's it.

It's only the anti-English brigade who think otherwise, purely because it suits their agenda to overhype England in order to knock them down.

 

[Red4Ever]

Are you implying England are also terrible and we don't know it?

There's no comparison between the current England side and the current Ireland one, unless the comparison is Ireland are much much worse than England.

Nope

Ireland are simply terrible
But we know it
England are okay but as usual, overhyped

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Nope

Ireland are simply terrible
But we know it
England are okay but as usual, overhyped

How are we overhyped?

We had a good 2018, we have a young squad with a a lot of promising young attacking players, plus two world class ones in Kane and Sterling, and we have a manager who is doing well and who everyone in the country likes.

 

[Red4Ever]

But who's overhyping them and in what way?

There's definitely potential in the side and excitement about what they can achieve, so that's what people are discussing. No different to any other team in world sport.

You seem to misunderstand the English mentality. Nobody expects us to win anything. The 'big 4' are Brazil, Germany, Italy and Spain. England are in the next tier down where we hope to be competetive but that's about it.

Look at the last World Cup. The country lost its shit over a semi final. We know that's our level. Also, our most famous song is Three Lions song which, for some reason, cited as a sign of arrogance. That's despite the fact it's about how crap the National Team is and how we always fails. If you want an idea of where England stands, that's it.

It's only the anti-English brigade who think otherwise, purely because it suits their agenda to overhype England in order to knock them down.

Mostly this is fair

But your media & even many here overhype them. I remember a few posters getting very tetchy here last summer when anyone criticized them

When I joined this forum many of the posters had a different view on the national team, but I guess memories of united players being boo’d at wembley by the masses were fresh. Those teams were overhyped too the younger team now Is more likeable I guess but let’s see if they can achieve anything last summer was a start at least

 

[Red4Ever]

How are we overhyped?

We had a good 2018, we have a young squad with a a lot of promising young attacking players, plus two world class ones in Kane and Sterling, and we have a manager who is doing well and who everyone in the country likes.

Imo there are some great or potentially young players
Sancho Rice Rashford Sterling etc

I think overall though they aren’t as good in defence or midfield and I think that maquire & Pickford & many more are being a bit over hyped in relation to where they really are in 2019

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Imo there are some great or potentially young players
Sancho Rice Rashford Sterling etc

I think overall though they aren’t as good in defence or midfield and I think that maquire & Pickford & many more are being a bit over hyped in relation to where they really are in 2019

You keep saying overhyped and I just don't agree. The Mid 2000's with the "Golden Generation" yeah, they were hugely overhyped but I don't see how this current England side are.

The vast majority of England fans are well aware Pickford is dodgy, Maguire is decent at best and our midfield is crap. That's why we were so delighted to get Rice because he looks like the exact sort of player we need.

If you're reading The Sun then yeah maybe you come away thinking we're arrogant but that's about it. Most people are just optimistic and excited to have a national team that's fun to watch again.

 

[FootballHQ]

But who's overhyping them and in what way?

There's definitely potential in the side and excitement about what they can achieve, so that's what people are discussing. No different to any other team in world sport.

You seem to misunderstand the English mentality. Nobody expects us to win anything. The 'big 4' are Brazil, Germany, Italy and Spain. England are in the next tier down where we hope to be competetive but that's about it.

Look at the last World Cup. The country lost its shit over a semi final. We know that's our level. Also, our most famous song is Three Lions song which, for some reason, cited as a sign of arrogance. That's despite the fact it's about how crap the National Team is and how we always fails. If you want an idea of where England stands, that's it.

It's only the anti-English brigade who think otherwise, purely because it suits their agenda to overhype England in order to knock them down.

Interesting when you look at next euros. Obviously Brazil are a non factor, the other three you've mentioned are all in major transition.

I really don't see Germany doing anything at next euros, out in quarters as decision to keep Low is massive error. Italy promoting lots of young players so will have to see how they do.

Spain's last three tournaments have been group stage exit and two last 16 exits and the 11 they put out last night wasn't anything special.

For me the overwhelming favourites to win next euros are France (do the double like 98-2000) and if not then Belgium as that's the last tournament all of their golden generation will be at their peaks.

After that I'd put England in the mix with Portugal who are very much a tournament team. Holland as outsiders with some of the young talent they have now. Also have to factor in if England do have a good run semi final and final are at Wembley.

 

[Kag]

As an England football supporter you’re not allowed to be excited - or even remotely confident - without arseholes putting words into your mouth.

The same basement dwellers generally believed that thousands of pissed up lads (enjoying the sun for the first summer in years) singing ‘it’s coming home’ was a sign of arrogance, and not just thousands up pissed up lads (and lasses) enjoying football for the first time in Lord knows how long.

England are playing their best football in years and have some exciting young players in attacking positions. That isn’t hype, moreso objective assessment.

 

[Red4Ever]

You keep saying overhyped and I just don't agree. The Mid 2000's with the "Golden Generation" yeah, they were hugely overhyped but I don't see how this current England side are.

The vast majority of England fans are well aware Pickford is dodgy, Maguire is decent at best and our midfield is crap. That's why we were so delighted to get Rice because he looks like the exact sort of player we need.

If you're reading The Sun then yeah maybe you come away thinking we're arrogant but that's about it. Most people are just optimistic and excited to have a national team that's fun to watch again.

Fair enough
I will never buy or read the sun.
Incidentally I think rice made a good career decision going with England, who have potential

In Ireland it’s embarrassing that our shambolic football association doesn’t support our own league & the corruption is deep

 

[Red4Ever]

But who's overhyping them and in what way?

There's definitely potential in the side and excitement about what they can achieve, so that's what people are discussing. No different to any other team in world sport.

You seem to misunderstand the English mentality. Nobody expects us to win anything. The 'big 4' are Brazil, Germany, Italy and Spain. England are in the next tier down where we hope to be competetive but that's about it.

Look at the last World Cup. The country lost its shit over a semi final. We know that's our level. Also, our most famous song is Three Lions song which, for some reason, cited as a sign of arrogance. That's despite the fact it's about how crap the National Team is and how we always fails. If you want an idea of where England stands, that's it.

It's only the anti-English brigade who think otherwise, purely because it suits their agenda to overhype England in order to knock them down.

Belgium and France are better than that big 4 at the moment imo

 

[Red4Ever]

As an England football supporter you’re not allowed to be excited - or even remotely confident - without arseholes putting words into your mouth.

The same basement dwellers generally believed that thousands of pissed up lads (enjoying the sun for the first summer in years) singing ‘it’s coming home’ was a sign of arrogance, and not just thousands up pissed up lads (and lasses) enjoying football for the first time in Lord knows how long.

England are playing their best football in years and have some exciting young players in attacking positions. That isn’t hype, moreso objective assessment.

No need for the name calling
Open up another can of stella
Enjoy it

 

[Kag]

No need for the name calling
Open up another can of stella
Enjoy it

Who specifically did I name call?

The Stella remark makes your ingrained and deep-rooted beliefs rather obvious. You tried to hide it well, mind you.

 

[Dante]

Interesting when you look at next euros. Obviously Brazil are a non factor, the other three you've mentioned are all in major transition.

I really don't see Germany doing anything at next euros, out in quarters as decision to keep Low is massive error. Italy promoting lots of young players so will have to see how they do.

Spain's last three tournaments have been group stage exit and two last 16 exits and the 11 they put out last night wasn't anything special.

For me the overwhelming favourites to win next euros are France (do the double like 98-2000) and if not then Belgium as that's the last tournament all of their golden generation will be at their peaks.

After that I'd put England in the mix with Portugal who are very much a tournament team. Holland as outsiders with some of the young talent they have now. Also have to factor in if England do have a good run semi final and final are at Wembley.

I'd agree with all that.

And when I say 'Big 4', I know I'm being somewhat glib.

Brazil, Germany, Italy and Spain are pretty much always there or thereabouts (except under expceptional circumstances).

After that, you have a group including France, The Netherlands, Argentina and England who might have the odd special generation and rise to the level of contenders.

Then there are the other teams who can compete at the top every so often, but you wouldn't bet your house on them qualifying in, say, 10 years' time.

It's all swings and roundabouts.

 

[Dante]

Who specifically did I name call?

The Stella remark makes your ingrained and deep-rooted beliefs rather obvious. You tried to hide it well, mind you.

It's not you name calling.

It's the English media.

Or something.

 

[Dante]

Belgium and France are better than that big 4 at the moment imo

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Red4Ever]

Who specifically did I name call?

The Stella remark makes your ingrained and deep-rooted beliefs rather obvious. You tried to hide it well, mind you.

Sure bro. Sure

 

[Red4Ever]

Swings and roundabouts.

Yup
It’s exciting times for international football imo lots of potential teams that can win next WC

I agree on that

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

There are no neutral Irish fans when it comes to the England football team no matter how hard they try and claim to be.

 

[Red4Ever]

There are no neutral Irish fans when it comes to the England football team no matter how hard they try and claim to be.

I should have just left the back slapping to all of you guys

Sorry

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I should have just left the back slapping to all of you guys

Sorry

You came into the thread posting bitter shite about England being overhyped.

Bro.

 

[Red4Ever]

You came into the thread posting bitter shite about England being overhyped.

Bro.

Wow

You have gone from 0-100 fast

Didn’t realize the England thread was just for the English Nigel

 

[Kag]

I always find it amusing when English media is criticised for its praise of our footballers. too. Isn’t this the same media that leaks our teams? Or the same one that actively seeks to trap its managers in scandal - be it Hoddle, Eriksson or Allardyce? Isn’t this the same media that has made pantomime villains out of Beckham, Rooney, Terry and, more recently, Sterling.

Of course, sports media and news media are two separate entities, but let’s not pretend that it’s all light and fairy in its coverage.

To a certain extent, our media should be lending a degree of support to the national team. It should attempt to be positive, in part because its readership wants to be encouraged. If all I wanted to read was criticism of a football team then I’d stick to online forums.

The media, the fans, the players - everybody - is entitled to feel a sense of excitement when it is merited. And when England are reaching the semi finals of a World Cup, beating the likes of Spain and Croatia, playing attractive football, winning a host of youth tournaments and giving caps to exciting kids like Sancho and Hudson-Odoi then it’s only human (and right) for all the bros to be enthusiastic.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Wow

You have gone from 0-100 fast

Didn’t realize the England thread was just for the English Nigel

Nah I tried being reasonable with you but open a can of stella and calling me Nigel, I take it after Nigel Farage?, shows you're just a bitter Irish fan on the windup.

So I replied in kind.

There's nothing wrong with you disliking the England team and wanting it to fail, just don't try and pretend that's not what you're doing on here.

 

[Red4Ever]

Nah I tried being reasonable with you but open a can of stella and calling me Nigel, I take it after Nigel Farage?, shows you're just a bitter Irish fan on the windup.

So I replied in kind.

There's nothing wrong with you disliking the England team and wanting it to fail, just don't try and pretend that's not what you're doing on here.

I was being very reasonable
A few of you jumped on my comment that England were overhyped, despite admitting that the media etc overhype them

The fact that I am irish became an issue for some bizarre reason, despite me admitting that a former irish youth player recently declaring for England was a good career choice for him and despite me admitting Ireland are a shambles and shit.

Maybe the issue is on your side
Maybe they should keep this topic to just English posters and the rest of us should stay out of the debate
Maybe you can all just overhype them together and render the idea of a forum and reasonable debate to history

 

[Dante]

I was being very reasonable
A few of you jumped on my comment that England were overhyped, despite admitting that the media etc overhype them

The fact that I am irish became an issue for some bizarre reason, despite me admitting that a former irish youth player recently declaring for England was a good career choice for him and despite me admitting Ireland are a shambles and shit.

Maybe the issue is on your side
Maybe they should keep this topic to just English posters and the rest of us should stay out of the debate
Maybe you can all just overhype them together and render the idea of a forum and reasonable debate to history

You seem to take the English media far too seriously.

If the English media were complimentary about Manchester United, would you start to hate them too? I mean, there's plenty of hyping up Ole. Maybe it's time to switch allegiance.

 

[Cloud7]

As a non English fan I always find it really weird the anger that seems to be generated in people at the slightest hint of any positivity from England fans.

England have had so many great players over the years that I’ve really liked, and this current iteration of the England team is quite likeable in its own right.

There are so many international teams that are much easier to dislike, I never understand why so much hate gets directed at England in particular.

 

[Red4Ever]

You seem to take the English media far too seriously.

If the English media were complimentary about Manchester United, would you start to hate them too? I mean, there's plenty of hyping up Ole. Maybe it's time to switch allegiance.

The English press have done a lot more shameful things than hyping up the national team

I prefer when they are putting down United
I’m a united fan

 

[Red4Ever]

As a non English fan I always find it really weird the anger that seems to be generated in people at the slightest hint of any positivity from England fans.

England have had so many great players over the years that I’ve really liked, and this current iteration of the England team is quite likeable in its own right.

There are so many international teams that are much easier to dislike, I never understand why so much hate gets directed at England in particular.

A poster here suggested that It’s embarrassing that united don’t have more English internationals

I replied that they are overhyped
Suggesting we have a World Cup winner etc

It went from there
I think the 3 lions brigade on here are a bit sensitive

Even the compliments got ignored

 

[0le]

A poster here suggested that It’s embarrassing that united don’t have more English internationals

I replied that they are overhyped
Suggesting we have a World Cup winner etc

It went from there
I think the 3 lions brigade on here are a bit sensitive

Even the compliments got ignored

Which English players are overhyped by people on redcafe? No one rates the goalkeeper, Pickford. No one rates Walker highly. Kane is genuinely world class as is Sterling. No one rates the midfield either. Most people agree there is an exiciting group of young players coming through. People were hyping Sancho because of his link to United, not anything to do with the fact he is English. Rashford is hyped because he is a United youth product, again, nothing to do with the fact he is English e.g. Chong has received similar hype.

Comments about the media are irrelevant because no one here controls what people in the media say, nor does the media reflect the opinion of people on redcafe.

As a non English fan I always find it really weird the anger that seems to be generated in people at the slightest hint of any positivity from England fans.

England have had so many great players over the years that I’ve really liked, and this current iteration of the England team is quite likeable in its own right.

There are so many international teams that are much easier to dislike, I never understand why so much hate gets directed at England in particular.

I have wondered about this too. Obviously I understand it from rival fans (Scotland, Wales, Irish teams), but sometimes it feels to be a view from fans all over the world.

 

[Dante]

A poster here suggested that It’s embarrassing that united don’t have more English internationals

I replied that they are overhyped
Suggesting we have a World Cup winner etc

It went from there
I think the 3 lions brigade on here are a bit sensitive

Even the compliments got ignored

The second point does not follow on from the first. That level of irrationality is where the accusations of bitterness come from.

If anything, you're suppporting the original idea, because it should be easy for United to provide players to an overhyped national team.

 

[Red4Ever]

Which English players are overhyped by people on redcafe? No one rates the goalkeeper, Pickford. No one rates Walker highly. Kane is genuinely world class as is Sterling. No one rates the midfield either. Most people agree there is an exiciting group of young players coming through. People were hyping Sancho because of his link to United, not anything to do with the fact he is English. Rashford is hyped because he is a United youth product, again, nothing to do with the fact he is English e.g. Chong has received similar hype.

Comments about the media are irrelevant because no one here controls what people in the media say, nor does the media reflect the opinion of people on redcafe.




I have wondered about this too. Obviously I understand it from rival fans (Scotland, Wales, Irish teams), but sometimes it feels to be a view from fans all over the world.

Overall I felt they were
I’m certainly not “embarrassed” as a united fan that we haven’t more of them
Hopefully we will get sancho though
Rice potentially I could see being a united type player

It’s no big deal
It’s just an opinion

For the record I think we (united) got a bit giddy too. It’s understandable after Paris but I thought we were rubbish v arsenal in a huge game
It happens
No big deal
It’s natural

I’ve no problem admitting it
We all do it

 

[Red4Ever]

The second point does not follow on from the first. That level of irrationality is where the accusations of bitterness come from.

If anything, you're suppporting the original idea, because it should be easy for United to provide players to an overhyped national team.

I don’t agree
United have always had great players from multiple countries
A decent club side should be able to beat an international one

At the moment us v England would be close
Looking to the future; I’d like to think some of our youngsters can be the next Rashford & co and have a good run with England
I’d be delighted if Rashford & lingard etc won a WC too, and while I don’t see it happening, you never know in football

 

[Eire Red United]

Slightly embarrassing that United have so little involvement in the England lineup now , what's worse is that it's not like we don't have English players but just that we have held on to a lot of average English players while England are going through a good era

Rashford, Shaw and Smalling are all good enough to start, Lingard will be in and around the squad as well when fit plus Henderson, Greenwood and Gomes who have been involved at youth levels and will be pushing through in the next few years.

 

[Eire Red United]

ROI have Randolph, McLean, Keogh and Stevens in their starting 11 and they all playing for championships team.

We’re shite don’t mind us

 

[Red4Ever]

Rashford, Shaw and Smalling are all good enough to start, Lingard will be in and around the squad as well when fit plus Henderson, Greenwood and Gomes who have been involved at youth levels and will be pushing through in the next few years.

Yup that’s not bad!

 

[Red4Ever]

We’re shite don’t mind us

Some win v Gibraltar though!

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Some win v Gibraltar though!

Mick McCarthy enjoyed it.