England | WC 2022 Discussion | QF: France

ryansgirl

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Little of what they post makes sense, I wouldn't worry about it.
Yes I apologise for not assuming that this England team will do anything different from previous England teams in the World Cup. And for having opinions that differ from yours - I will be more sensitive in future.
 

ryansgirl

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Southgate will be the downfall of England this tournament.

I know we beat the mighty Iran, but let's be real.
Southgate has done a far better job than many thought but one emphatic win over a team that is from a country with an extremist regime that is right now killing, maiming and imprisoning many Iranians including people they know, does not mean England is on its way to glory.

Not even Carlos Q could do anything with them that game - I thought Iran would do what we saw Saudi Arabia do to Germany minus the win.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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How did the Beckham-Gerrard-Rio etc England `perform worse` than our current England team? This team do look good in some key ways but they haven`t won anything yet. I didn`t say I preferred all the players of that England team but I think it is hard to say that there is anybody in the current England team that can match the consistency and quality of Beckham and Rio, to name two examples.

There is no equivalent of Gerrard, either, although the big tactical weakness of previous England managers was letting him play the way he did for Liverpool which didn`t always work out when playing European teams with great tactical nouse. It`s heartening to see England`s current attacking quality but I wouldn`t swap any of the defenders for Rio or John Terry.
By never reaching a semi or a final the way this current England generation has. It's fairly obvious.

They very clearly performed worse. They may have had more individual star quality but they obviously underperformed.
 

LittleP14

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To be fair, looking at the group as they are currently we could end up seeing Argentina and Germany (if they even make it through) as runners up of their groups. This would almost certainly tee up ties of France Vs Argentina and Germany Vs Brazil in the last 16! Crazy world cup if that happens!
 

ryansgirl

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Yes you'd take the Rio era on talent alone as individuals, especially in central defence and midfield where we're poor and/or lacking any serious depth of options.

But the issue is you cannot really transplant them on talent alone and it make any sense because that wasn't the problem. The whole point of why those guys failed to perform to their club level was they were of a different mindset to the current players. So you not only have to take their talent, but also somehow make them of a completely different outlook which is messy.

Southgate is able to foster a culture with this lot, with that bunch it was impossible for even more accomplished managers to do so, and therefore they were much less than the sum of their parts. So in my opinion the only thing that is relevant is the outcome, not individual talent. This squad is a better squad because they have demonstrably better results. I'd rather go into a 2022 tournament with this squad than another Sven era tournament with that squad.
Good points about the culture of the current England squad and yes, Southgate has to be praised for getting the players unified to the extent they are. But I don`t recall the Beckham-Rio-Gerrard-Lampard etc teams as having inter-personal problems that affected their performances on the pitch.

While Beckham did take advantage of his captaincy - the unauthorised use of the England uniform for his own personal financial gain in promotions and projects that were nothing to do with England was one of them - apart from that bloke who said Beckham ignored him at the lunch or dinner table when he was in the England squad, I had the impression that he was a solid team captain. He was praised by non United players for bringing the squad together.

I know the current England team have some better results but it won`t be good enough for them to even make the final in the WC unless they win it. Then we will know that something special has been accomplished.
 

Mb194dc

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Are we covering up the severity of Kane's ankle problem?

USA game is must not lose, interesting to see how Southgate approaches it. Attacking or back to pragmatism?
 

duffer

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But I don`t recall the Beckham-Rio-Gerrard-Lampard etc teams as having inter-personal problems that affected their performances on the pitch.
Quite a few of the "golden generation" have spoken about club divides and frostiness between players. That and unsuitable managers were the two biggest reason they underperformed.

This current lot get on really well and are all hugs and jokes, even when they play against each other in the league.
 

saivet

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Are we covering up the severity of Kane's ankle problem?

USA game is must not lose, interesting to see how Southgate approaches it. Attacking or back to pragmatism?
He'll keep it attacking I think. I'd expect the same starting line up if there are no injuries. I don't think Trippier was good so maybe he might start TAA instead but would be surprised.

At the Euros we only played 3 at the back twice in that tournament, against Germany and Italy in the final. I'd expect a similar approach.
 

njred

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The fact that he doesn’t start Phil Foden is all I in need to know about Southgate and his inevitable exit from this tournament instead of going as far as we should go.
 

SirReginald

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He'll keep it attacking I think. I'd expect the same starting line up if there are no injuries. I don't think Trippier was good so maybe he might start TAA instead but would be surprised.

At the Euros we only played 3 at the back twice in that tournament, against Germany and Italy in the final. I'd expect a similar approach.
Trippier isn’t good enough for England but we are stuck with him. I don’t see TAA playing unless he goes 5 at the back. Imagine playing Maguire and TAA in a back 4.. even Qatar would get clear chances to score.
 

TheReligion

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Trippier isn’t good enough for England but we are stuck with him. I don’t see TAA playing unless he goes 5 at the back. Imagine playing Maguire and TAA in a back 4.. even Qatar would get clear chances to score.
Hasn’t Maguire always been good for England?
 

DannyCAFC

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The fact that he doesn’t start Phil Foden is all I in need to know about Southgate and his inevitable exit from this tournament instead of going as far as we should go.
Well Saka scored twice and was arguably MOTM.

Sterling got on the scoresheet aswell - great finish and showed precisely the sort of movement we need around Kane when he vacates his CF role. Also generally had a good game.

Mount had limited attacking contribution but was everywhere in the build-up and does an important job defensively.

So who're you dropping from the starting XI?
 

Red the Bear

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To be honest they have a pretty good chance at this, seems to be finally their "year".

They won't win it though.
 

croadyman

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Think it will help England that we now have probably the fourth best performance in first group matches.
 

Lecland07

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Pretty played for a draw against the USA. Bloody awful.

I give up with England. I don't think we will ever get a manager who actually plays positively.
 

Irwin99

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A dour performance but pretty much guaranteed to win the group? I doubt Wales manage a draw let alone beat them and I fancy USA to beat Iran.
 

Judas

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Dreary wank from a team managed by Southgate, well that is a shock.

This is the sort of performance I expected from us going into the tournament to be fair.
 

Raw

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God that was piss poor. Baffling lineups and subs. How the feck does Mount play 90 minutes?
 

Lecland07

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Incredible.

Most successful England manager of modern times and apparently won’t be successful. Ok.
There has been no success. Every single team we beat under him, we would beat with or without Southgate as manager.
 

DRJosh

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England had a similar lethargic draw with Scotland in the Euros but they somewhat redeemed themselves after. I wouldn’t jump to conclusions
 

the_cliff

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Nations league performance.

Seems like the Iran game was a one off and we've just reverted into being shit again.
 

Ekeke

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Nothing at all going forward. Midfield outworked and outshone by USA's. Maguire defended crosses well at the back. We're much the luckier side with a point out of that one
 

Judas

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I just dont get his thinking on some of these selections, especially with the options he has.

Grealish's non stop dancing with the ball did my head in too, what an impact :lol:
 

saivet

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A dour performance but pretty much guaranteed to win the group? I doubt Wales manage a draw let alone beat them and I fancy USA to beat Iran.
Qualified unless Wales beat us by 4+ goals.

A win against Wales guarantees we top the group.

Draw vs Wales and we need a draw between Iran and USA, or USA to win by less than a 4 goal margin against Iran to top the group.

Lose by less than 4 goals vs Wales and we need Iran vs USA to draw top the group to top the group.

If my maths is correct
 

Abraxas

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We were incredibly poor.

We didn't press anywhere near as well as they did. Mount and Kane jogging around. Disjointed press which was easy for the USA to bypass.

Then at the other end the exact opposite. USA press well, showed great athleticism, leaving us aimlessly punting the ball back and forward between Stones and Maguire. Bellingham, Mount, Rice have to be much better than that to offer options.
 
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