England World Cup Discussion

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croadyman said:
I just can't get on board with a manager who had a World Cup Final in palm of his hands. He just carelessly chucked away the momentum by sitting back. The media need to toughen up on him instead of talking up that third place.
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Yeah I think he's lost most fans, I really can't think of a game we played well for 90mins. We did well to get the win in Mexico with ten men, but that's been overblown to a silly degree, it's like United getting 3 points away to Burnley with ten men. There's such a gulf in talent between the first XI.

His team selection was terrible and he caused issues for himself he didn't need to have, then he messed up big time with Argentina.
 
Moriarty said:
Kane, I think, said that Tuchel will learn from the defeat to Argentina. If that's the case, he's unfit to manage England.
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People don't seem to realise that other countries will have better managers in Euro 2028 and World Cup in 2030. So when you get a golden opportunity to win a trophy you need to grab it with both hands. I am exceptionally fearful we may not get another shot at this for a while now.
 
croadyman said:
People don't seem to realise that other countries will have better managers in Euro 2028 and World Cup in 2030. So when you get a golden opportunity to win a trophy you need to grab it with both hands. I am exceptionally fearful we may not get another shot at this for a while now.
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Those are my feelings too. We should not persist with a manager who makes such a fundamental error. The signs were there in the warm up games and when he names his squad, a lot of lads on here pointed out the deficiencies. This was our best chance since 1990 and we pissed it up the wall.
 
It's a hard one to take for sure. Tuchel seems like a relatively logical kind of coach and the decisions late on against Argentina defy all logic. I think alongside his stupid squad selection he doesn't deserve another tournament - and I was actually a big fan of him as a coach before this world cup.

I also really hope Pickford is demoted from this silly 'undroppable' position he seems to be in. He's done ok but in these crunch games when the pressures on he always ends up shitting the bed and punting it upfield to no one. It's all so predictable.
 
croadyman said:
Yeah should be an instant dismissal but FA are soft
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Because of the 4 games in the Euro league in a couple of months they will keep him there for that and hope he can turn it around, specifically going toe to toe and getting a result against Spain at Wembley.

If he flops there they will probably have no choice but just like us with Amorim they clearly don't want to sack him after signing the contract extension right before the world cup as they will look like fools.
 
He should rightfully be held to higher standard than Southgate and he should hold most of the blame for the end to the game vs Argentina but I'm more in the camp of keeping him on, rather than sacking him.

The two obvious candidates that come to mind are Pep who was seemingly ready to accept the job before changing his mind and promoting Carsley.

I do think there is a value in learning what it's like to manage at an international tournament..I don't think Pep would do what he did but he has been prone to overthinking in the CL in the past. I'm more inclined to give him a shot at the Euros where winning the title is mandatory to giving him any shot at managing at the next World Cup.

I think Carsley is almost certainly available after and I won't be surprised if Pep takes a break until after the Euros too..

Edit: I missed the news about Italy trying to get Pep. I'd ditch Tuchel in an attempt to get for Pep if he's actually open to it.
 
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saivet said:
He should rightfully be held to higher standard than Southgate and he should hold most of the blame for the end to the game vs Argentina but I'm more in the camp of keeping him on, rather than sacking him.

The two obvious candidates that come to mind are Pep who was seemingly ready to accept the job before changing his mind and promoting Carsley.

I do think there is a value in learning what it's like to manage at an international tournament..I don't think Pep would do what he did but he has been prone to overthinking in the CL in the past. I'm more inclined to give him a shot at the Euros where winning the title is mandatory to giving him any shot at managing at the next World Cup.

I think Carsley is almost certainly available after and I won't be surprised if Pep takes a break until after the Euros too..

Edit: I missed the news about Italy trying to get Pep. I'd ditch Tuchel in an attempt to get for Pep if he's actually open to it.
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Yeah I would as well, however I will reiterate what I said earlier that I could see them spurning him after what happened in 2024
 
croadyman said:
Yeah I would as well, however I will reiterate what I said earlier that I could see them spurning him after what happened in 2024
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Yeah you'd need him to be have all but signed a contract, though it does feel like it will end up being an opportunity missed.
 
Moriarty said:
Those are my feelings too. We should not persist with a manager who makes such a fundamental error. The signs were there in the warm up games and when he names his squad, a lot of lads on here pointed out the deficiencies. This was our best chance since 1990 and we pissed it up the wall.
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Yeah easily our best chance for 36 years and like you say we absolutely pissed it up the wall
 
saivet said:
Yeah you'd need him to be have all but signed a contract, though it does feel like it will end up being an opportunity missed.
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Not an opportunity missed if he stayed at City, will give them a little credit for at least approaching him
 
InspiRED said:
It's a hard one to take for sure. Tuchel seems like a relatively logical kind of coach and the decisions late on against Argentina defy all logic. I think alongside his stupid squad selection he doesn't deserve another tournament - and I was actually a big fan of him as a coach before this world cup.

I also really hope Pickford is demoted from this silly 'undroppable' position he seems to be in. He's done ok but in these crunch games when the pressures on he always ends up shitting the bed and punting it upfield to no one. It's all so predictable.
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So with you on this point. I’ve never rated Pickford in big games especially as he’s always so error prone, even in the game against Congo he let in a goal within the first six minutes.

Says a lot about the standard of keepers we’re producing when Raya is just regarded as a sub for Spain.
 
Surely by far the most expensive national team, which by that metric should equate to the best team? :rolleyes:
 
Obviously the DNA came thing came up and I get it to an extent (despite being a completely separate issue to his subs) but the only way we're ever going to solve the problem is to start trusting some of these technical players more. Tuchel picked his entire squad around pace and power, and while I got what he was trying to do, it only really worked for 20 minutes against Croatia in terms of a playing style.

The rest of the time it would've been better to have the likes of Mainoo/Wharton to help us in possession. We don't seem to trust these types of players off the ball so we fill our teams with athletes instead but surely there's a balance. Fecking hell, international football isn't that intense anyway.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Yeah I think he's lost most fans, I really can't think of a game we played well for 90mins. We did well to get the win in Mexico with ten men, but that's been overblown to a silly degree, it's like United getting 3 points away to Burnley with ten men. There's such a gulf in talent between the first XI.

His team selection was terrible and he caused issues for himself he didn't need to have, then he messed up big time with Argentina.
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I agree with this.

Sacking him won't solve the problem of sitting back being and unable to keep possession, though. But his attempted solution to that problem was unacceptable. And when that's combined with not playing well for 90 minutes, he must go.
 
I'm not as worried about Kane not having a successor. Football seems to be moving away from that type of CF, anyway. I think we can do things with a false 9.

Don't get wrong, I would prefer another great english 9 but I don't think one is coming anytime, soon.
 
Malkovich said:
England is now the only team with 1 World Cup title.
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We could have been the ones leaving Spain on single title
DixieDean said:
I agree with this.

Sacking him won't solve the problem of sitting back being and unable to keep possession, though. But his attempted solution to that problem was unacceptable. And when that's combined with not playing well for 90 minutes, he must go.
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I agree it wouldn't necessarily solve the problem, however another manager will be more open to possession retainers such as Wharton, Kobbie and Garner
 
justsomebloke said:
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2026/jul/18/thomas-tuchel-england-dna-world-cup-football

Got to admit a good case is made by Liew there, that Tuchel needs to go.
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Just looking back to what he did in the 2021 CL final.

Was leading that game for far longer than England one.

Made two subs in second half. Pulisic on for Werner so AM on for CF which is far logical. And Kovacic came on for Mount so slighter deeper midfielder but again a very logical change to make.

Marcos Alonso, Kurt Zouma and Emerson Palmieri all remained unused.

When you look back now nearly a week on Konsa for Gordon was a very extreme sub. Basically meant England had no one at all on the left in opposition half for rest of the game. He could've waited another ten minutes and put Konsa on for Reece James and no one would've raised an eyebrow.

He then had ten minutes to see it wasn't working and could've done a double sub of Rashford and Saka to get England up the pitch more. Instead doubled down with Burn and O'Reilly as 80th minute subs.

O'Reilly was also a curious use. Played all tournament at LB and surely with Messi creating havoc down the right the instructions should've been to stick to him like glue, be physical and concede free kicks out wide if you have to....O'Reilly played central midfield instead before eventually going out to the left to try to help Spence.

Tuchel just got it all spectacularly wrong in that last half hour.
 
FootballHQ said:
Just looking back to what he did in the 2021 CL final.

Was leading that game for far longer than England one.

Made two subs in second half. Pulisic on for Werner so AM on for CF which is far logical. And Kovacic came on for Mount so slighter deeper midfielder but again a very logical change to make.

Marcos Alonso, Kurt Zouma and Emerson Palmieri all remained unused.

When you look back now nearly a week on Konsa for Gordon was a very extreme sub. Basically meant England had no one at all on the left in opposition half for rest of the game. He could've waited another ten minutes and put Konsa on for Reece James and no one would've raised an eyebrow.

He then had ten minutes to see it wasn't working and could've done a double sub of Rashford and Saka to get England up the pitch more. Instead doubled down with Burn and O'Reilly as 80th minute subs.

O'Reilly was also a curious use. Played all tournament at LB and surely with Messi creating havoc down the right the instructions should've been to stick to him like glue, be physical and concede free kicks out wide if you have to....O'Reilly played central midfield instead before eventually going out to the left to try to help Spence.

Tuchel just got it all spectacularly wrong in that last half hour.
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I will never understand it and certainly won't forgive him
 
FootballHQ said:
Just looking back to what he did in the 2021 CL final.

Was leading that game for far longer than England one.

Made two subs in second half. Pulisic on for Werner so AM on for CF which is far logical. And Kovacic came on for Mount so slighter deeper midfielder but again a very logical change to make.

Marcos Alonso, Kurt Zouma and Emerson Palmieri all remained unused.

When you look back now nearly a week on Konsa for Gordon was a very extreme sub. Basically meant England had no one at all on the left in opposition half for rest of the game. He could've waited another ten minutes and put Konsa on for Reece James and no one would've raised an eyebrow.

He then had ten minutes to see it wasn't working and could've done a double sub of Rashford and Saka to get England up the pitch more. Instead doubled down with Burn and O'Reilly as 80th minute subs.

O'Reilly was also a curious use. Played all tournament at LB and surely with Messi creating havoc down the right the instructions should've been to stick to him like glue, be physical and concede free kicks out wide if you have to....O'Reilly played central midfield instead before eventually going out to the left to try to help Spence.

Tuchel just got it all spectacularly wrong in that last half hour.
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It's being said that to fire Tuchel now would be an emotional knee-jerk reaction in a moment of great disappointment. But it's really the opposite - when you consider things calmly and take all things into account, it rather strengthens the case for it. It goes to the team selections through the tournament, the squad selection ahead of it and above all, the general feeling that this was never really a functional team and that these things all reflect the same conscious approach from Tuchels side. The big question for me was always where is the creativity supposed to come from? The stuff that need to happen between taking the ball into the final third and a quality finish taking place, who would take care of that? The way the team was set up, it could for the most part really only come from the flanks, and the players he chose there quite obviously were not suited to deliver that. Except for Saka, whom he chose to use less than he could have. There were many players not selected who could have helped with that, though many of them would have required difficult adjustments and sacrifices elsewhere. But without it, England remained shackled, dour and ineffective, compared to the other top teams in the tournament. Unless Tuchel changes his approach, of which there is so far no indication, it's hard to see why things would go better the next time around.

And another thing - the cumulative effect of the relative success they had under Southgate have brought them to a place where they can now have some justifiable confidence that they're good enough to reach the late stages of tournaments consistently. At the same time, it's clear they need to develop their game to go all the way - they need to become a more ambitious team, and to pull that off. The FA should be mindful of the risks of squandering that, by reversing the direction of travel here. It looks a lot like that's what Tuchel is doing.
 
There are a couple of ways to look at the overall result. On the one hand you'd probably argue England had the 3rd best squad, and came 3rd. Rightful result.

The other way is to go back into the way they threw the result away against Argentina. Argentina had been dragged kicking and screaming into the semi final purely by Messi's brilliance coupled with excellent spirit and shithousery. They have a crop of good defenders but no truly outstanding ones, in midfield they have one very good one and a few other solid ones but outside Messi I'd say Alvarez is their only other outstanding player. It's a miracle they scored as many as they did because they don't play with any real attacking shape or numbers. It makes the decision to complete concede control after going 1-nil up even more baffling.

One of Rashford or Saka (both if I'm being honest) should've been on for the last 20. There'd have been more goals in it for them.

If they had got to the final they'd probably still be underdogs to Spain (who go progressively better as the tournement went on) but when it gets to a final anything can happen. It has to go down as a huge opportunity missed.
 
ReddyMcRedface said:
There are a couple of ways to look at the overall result. On the one hand you'd probably argue England had the 3rd best squad, and came 3rd. Rightful result.

The other way is to go back into the way they threw the result away against Argentina. Argentina had been dragged kicking and screaming into the semi final purely by Messi's brilliance coupled with excellent spirit and shithousery. They have a crop of good defenders but no truly outstanding ones, in midfield they have one very good one and a few other solid ones but outside Messi I'd say Alvarez is their only other outstanding player. It's a miracle they scored as many as they did because they don't play with any real attacking shape or numbers. It makes the decision to complete concede control after going 1-nil up even more baffling.

One of Rashford or Saka (both if I'm being honest) should've been on for the last 20. There'd have been more goals in it for them.

If they had got to the final they'd probably still be underdogs to Spain (who go progressively better as the tournement went on) but when it gets to a final anything can happen. It has to go down as a huge opportunity missed.
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Oh yeah no doubt we would have been underdogs in that final, however Tuchel threw it away and we are now left regretting a huge missed opportunity. Especially when you look at how much stronger the European competition is going to be in 2028
 
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