1 wicket away here.
English cricket thread
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
Done!
2-2's a good result for England I think.
The Aussies had the best batsman in the world in God mode, they had the better fast bowling attack and the better spinner. Plus they'd been preparing for years and we were a mess.
You've got to think England have punched above their weight a bit there.
The Aussies had the best batsman in the world in God mode, they had the better fast bowling attack and the better spinner. Plus they'd been preparing for years and we were a mess.
You've got to think England have punched above their weight a bit there.
Enjoyable series, Aussies deservedly retained the Ashes, I think England will be happy not to have lost the series.
Cummings, Hazelwood & Stokes were fantastic. Archer also was very good - as long as England manage his workload, he’s going to be a terrific bowler. Smith was on a completely different level, played one of the most memorable series of all time from a batsman. Simply an all time series from him.
The drama of tests 3 & 4 was brilliant. Can’t replicate that tension in any other form of the game.
Cummings, Hazelwood & Stokes were fantastic. Archer also was very good - as long as England manage his workload, he’s going to be a terrific bowler. Smith was on a completely different level, played one of the most memorable series of all time from a batsman. Simply an all time series from him.
The drama of tests 3 & 4 was brilliant. Can’t replicate that tension in any other form of the game.
Yep, agree with all that. Aussies deserved to retain the Ashes for sure.
Yeah. 2-2 and contributing points in test championship is a more meaningful and relevant achievement than having bragging rights over ‘the ashes’, whatever that is meant to signify these days.
Agree it’s also overachieving, given strength of both squads. Though England were massively hit by injuries to several key bowlers.
They'll be kicking themselves, performances like that from Smith don't come around very often.
Both teams have few good test players and rest are trash, 2-2 fair i think.
It's a funny one. Headingley was a heist, Australia played the better cricket for longer but neither team played very well for very long (Smith excepted). However England were the only team looking to win the drawn test! So it probably is fair.
Hope England plan properly for the next Ashes. The needle has been creeping back in....
You must mean test no 2, not test 4. Lords had a close ending, but Old Trafford was an Australian mauling.
Well keeping the Ashes is the main thing, isn't it. But yeah they should be disappointed. Can't imagine Smith is going to be as dominant next time the two sides play one another, and they should have won that game at Headingley.
What a really weird thing to say.. ‘whatever that is meant to mean’. It’s the longest running sporting contest between two countries that is still absolutely huge in both. No other sport can rival that.
Fantastic series, made more enjoyable because of the World Cup before and the feel good factor.
Difference really was Smith in the end. Whoever had a batter of that level wins the Ashes back. Oz will be kicking themselves they didn’t win it outright.
Mauling in the end yes, but for a little bit it seemed the English lower-order would hold out for the draw.
Well nobody can say that after that WC final we had this summer.
The World Cup final, the last hour at Headingley and Steve Smith. All within 8 weeks. Nice.
I remember when we went 2-1 up in Australia with one to play in 2010 and the England players did the sprinkler dance on the pitch and I just thought ah don't just go on the piss now.
We were so superior , it would have been a huge regret to go away from that 2-2.
I think the Aussies will look back on this the same way, they retained the Urn which is the most important thing but they blew a chance to make it truly special.
We were so superior , it would have been a huge regret to go away from that 2-2.
I think the Aussies will look back on this the same way, they retained the Urn which is the most important thing but they blew a chance to make it truly special.
Sammsky's right in the sense that the test championship gives a new context and significance to everything. But the Ashes still carries a magic all of its own.
My god, can you stop using the word relevant. I haven’t even spoken to a single person who’s mentioned the Test Championship this summer. You know why? Because more people care about The Ashes.
I look forward to as much interest in a test series against Bangladesh, as there was this summer in The Ashes.
So you can’t disprove the point. Thanks.
And you do know many many more people watch cricket in Bangladesh than in England, so not the best sarcasm available to you.
I think you need to broaden your horizons.
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Before T20i and IPL, and certainly Test Championship, Ashes had meaning in terms of audience and prestige. But it will now quickly become something very ornate, niche and meaningless.
Also find it very odd you can ‘win’ something when the score is 2-2. And even if you ‘win the ashes’, what do you actually win?! Bragging rights vs Australia? I don’t see what the big deal is in this current era.
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It is a good result. I was earlier thinking that England have burgled a result by taking it to the last test with an opportunity for a draw, but on balance it works out because Smith(and Labu) apart, this is a reflection of Australia's pathetic batting.
Australia look phenomenal when bowling, though. Atleast in the first 4 tests..
Similar introspection required for England. The batting is full of bits and pieces players. This has been the case for a long time now.. early part of the decade had some great players, but with every new spot that has opened up, the replacement players have been terrible. It is not a one-off - been going on for a decade now from when they have been trying to replace Strauss. Just from memory.. Carberry, Sam Robson, Stoneman, Lyth, Malan, Lyth, Ballance, Vince.. there have been so many players tried from first class cricket who have not made the step up tried across the batting order. I think a team like India have been way more successful in bringing in batsmen from first class cricket over the last decade.
I think Burns is probably the big plus point of the series for England.
Of course Archer and Stokes have been amazing but we all knew that anyway.
Broad was magnificent too, he's one of the all time great Ashes players.
Of course Archer and Stokes have been amazing but we all knew that anyway.
Broad was magnificent too, he's one of the all time great Ashes players.
Yep, would agree with all of that.
I’d add Leach to that list as he had significant influence.
Conversely, Bairstow, Buttler, Roy, Woakes and Ali were poor. Root and Denly just about par.
I'd say Leach was steady with the ball, he didn't rip through Australia but he wasn't a total liability the way Moeen sadly became.
He was brilliant with the bat though yeah, fans like to see someone giving their all and being brave and that's what Leach was. He can be very proud of himself.
I'd drop Bairstow for sure, and I'd seriously consider having Woakes just in limited overs cricket now. I really hope Moeen can get back to his best because he's a great player to watch when he's confident but I have my doubts if we'll see him again.
How can I disprove your point, when you’re just saying your opinion and I’m telling you mine. I told you that I don’t think that population size is the only thing that makes a match relevant. You’ve given me one other example of a test fixture that is bigger than The Ashes, which I didn’t disagree with. But that doesn’t make the other one irrelevant.
I, personally, don’t think that because England v Bangladesh is a bigger series than The Ashes, due to more people living in Bangladesh than Australia. But if that’s the measurement you want to use then fair enough. If more people watched a Chinese team v United than United v Liverpool, because China has a huge population, would that make United v Liverpool an irrelevant match?
Quite sad seeing Gower and Botham say goodbye, even if Botham annoyed me a fair bit.
Who are Sky getting in to replace them?
Who are Sky getting in to replace them?
Your opinion is based on zero evidence or fact. It’s just hyperbole.
tell me why ashes is relevant in digital modern day, multi format, multi national cricket competitions. What’s the big deal of winning it, whatever winning it means. What does the winning team get for winning it?
I think an audience of less than 5m people watching a test match between England and Australia is proof of lacking relevance, when India vs Bangladesh gets an audience of 60m inside India alone. More people in Middle East watch India than English people from England watching the ashes! And that’s before we discuss what the benefits of winning the ashes actually is, especially when it was 2-2.
you need to research the size of the game, and how England and Australia contribute to that. And properly understand the meaning of the word relevance.
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That twat Keys is one of them. I was a bit sad seeing that too - I think Botham was well overdue but Lord Gower needed to stay imo.
I always find it interesting as to how much cricket India A play. Dravid seems to be doing a lot of good work in identifying those with the right mentality to play test cricket and in developing those who do not quite have that mentality just yet.
My only issue with anything you’ve said is calling The Ashes irrelevant. If you had said less relevant or not as relevant, then I wouldn’t haven’t glanced twice at your post. But my understanding of the word irrelevant is that it has no relevance. So even 5 million people choosing to watch something means it has some relevance. Even with your logic.
I’m glad that 60 million people watch India v Bangladesh, good for all those people who have a connection to India and Bangladesh. I’ve already said that I don’t believe fixtures like that are as popular, outside of those connected to the participating countries, as The Ashes is. If you have stats that back that up then cool.
As long as test cricket is relevant, then The Ashes will be relevant to cricket. Regardless of how many people in India watch it. What do you get? A trophy that has been participated over for 140 years. What does India v Bangladesh get you?
Burns and Archer both had a very good series, Broad bowled well throughout, he loves Ashes cricket. We all know how good Stokes is. At times the cricket was absorbing, top level cricket, at other times it was 2nd XI stuff from both teams. The umpiring at times was questionable but that’s a tough gig.
England came up against a very very good bowling attack and a batsmen that will go down as one of the best ever. Whilst England lost their best bowler on the very first morning. That was the difference. 2-2 a fair result on reflection, I don’t think England were especially outplayed. Bearing in mind they won 2 out of the last 3 tests.
Both teams had chances to win the series, England held a first innings lead 3 times, had Australia 122/8 in the first test, were beaten by the weather in the 2nd Test albeit Smith was missing, for the run chase.
3rd Test England got lucky in the end with the last review Australia wasted, although I don’t think it was as controversial as it was made out and Smith not being available. Being bowled out for 67 was appalling, but not a shock, more a familiar feeling (58 all out v NZ in ‘18 and 77 all out v WI in ‘19) but they should've had Australia out for a lot less then the 179 they got in their first innings.
Again 4th Test, had Australia 224/5, should’ve never let them get near 500. Smith again the nemesis. Root was defensive at times with his bowling changes and field settings.
5th Test probably won at the toss. Australia maybe took their foot off the gas.
I do think Root should continue to captain the side, due to lack of suitable candidates at the moment. There’s question marks over a few players in the side. It’ll be interesting to see who the ECB go for as head coach, Bayliss was very much for the 50 over game and obviously succeeded there.
There’s a few county players knocking on the door and hoping for a chance. I’d like England to try something different in the upcoming tests in NZ.
Test cricket is still the best format of the game.
England came up against a very very good bowling attack and a batsmen that will go down as one of the best ever. Whilst England lost their best bowler on the very first morning. That was the difference. 2-2 a fair result on reflection, I don’t think England were especially outplayed. Bearing in mind they won 2 out of the last 3 tests.
Both teams had chances to win the series, England held a first innings lead 3 times, had Australia 122/8 in the first test, were beaten by the weather in the 2nd Test albeit Smith was missing, for the run chase.
3rd Test England got lucky in the end with the last review Australia wasted, although I don’t think it was as controversial as it was made out and Smith not being available. Being bowled out for 67 was appalling, but not a shock, more a familiar feeling (58 all out v NZ in ‘18 and 77 all out v WI in ‘19) but they should've had Australia out for a lot less then the 179 they got in their first innings.
Again 4th Test, had Australia 224/5, should’ve never let them get near 500. Smith again the nemesis. Root was defensive at times with his bowling changes and field settings.
5th Test probably won at the toss. Australia maybe took their foot off the gas.
I do think Root should continue to captain the side, due to lack of suitable candidates at the moment. There’s question marks over a few players in the side. It’ll be interesting to see who the ECB go for as head coach, Bayliss was very much for the 50 over game and obviously succeeded there.
There’s a few county players knocking on the door and hoping for a chance. I’d like England to try something different in the upcoming tests in NZ.
Test cricket is still the best format of the game.
My last post on this subject:
I wrote in my first post on this topic that
And I’ve provided more than enough facts and rationale to back that point up. I dont see how it’s even a controversial statement, especially in a summer when test crickets future in England has been such a hot subject.
Nothing you have written disproves this statement. Rather you've just projected hyperbole.
Winners of test matches between India and Bangladesh would gain valuable test championship points as well as an audience more than 15 times (incl Bangladesh audience as well) than the audience size of the Ashes. Not sure if they give away a meaningless trophy. Not sure you can win with 2-2 either. Matches between India and Pakistan can generate audiences of 1000million+ people. In the context of multi format, multinational cricket, these are relevant.
You’re welcome to do your own research to disprove.
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It's been a great summer though hasn't it.
If you'd offered me in May winning the World Cup, drawing the series against Australia and watching Warner have a nightmare every match I'd have snapped your hand off.
It's been brilliant.
If you'd offered me in May winning the World Cup, drawing the series against Australia and watching Warner have a nightmare every match I'd have snapped your hand off.
It's been brilliant.
What was botham doing in those shorts?
Yeah think (and hope) you mean Rob Key. He's brilliant.
Me too: excellent return for England fans. Have really enjoyed and am proud of the team. Thats the language and narrative England should take out of the summer of 2019.
We'll all have Lords CWC 19 final and test match at Headingley to look back on for years to come! I also loved the CWC wins vs India and Australia too.
Had a great time discussing with all in this thread. Until next summer!
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Stats reveal some telling differences between two teams:
Bowling wise, Cummings/Hazlewood vs Broad/Archer was an equal fight, but Lyons victory over Ali/Leach was a clear advantage for Australia.
Batting wise it took all of Stokes and Burns contributions to negate Smith, and Labuschagne and Wade easily outscore Root and Denly. Warners's numbers are unprecedented. Has any test opener to bat 10 innings in a 5 match series ever scored less?! Archer's return was also poor given his reputation and comparison with Australia no 9 like Cummings or Siddle.
If test cricket had Xg (does it?), Australia would have won by a significant margin; they should be disappointed and criticised for this failing.
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