English cricket thread

[Reddevildans]

With the bouncier pitches of Australia I would start with archer and wood. Curran would be an excellent back up in the squad. Would also bring in banton for malan. That top 7 of Roy, buttler, bairstow, Banton, Morgan, stokes and Ali would be formidable. All capable of clean hitting.

2020 world cup will be interesting. At the moment we have Pakistan top of the rankings surprisingly. Theres 4-5 other teams that are in contention of winning it. Small margins in this format.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

But reflecting on last summers 50 over World Cup and as pitches wear and pressure builds I do wonder if a Root, Williamson style player becomes of even more value to knit an innings together

Depends on the pitches we are likely to get in Australia and India to be honest. I also think for that role, Root's not as needed as Stokes is arguably better suited. Ideally you would have Stokes batting at 3 as he isn't always the best starter and takes him a while to build his innings. And as he has shown in a number of occasions he can knit an innings together.

I wouldn't rule Root out though and he has scored quickly before. Arguably if he keeps getting 5-fors there is a role as an all rounder in the team!

One thing I thought England needed before the series was a finisher, I wonder if Morgan is the answer here and arguably he would be best suited to bat at 6.

 

[slyadams]

I don’t know, been thinking about this during today’s game

And I’m really torn, in a game (and pitch) like today you clearly don’t need a Root type with a SR of 120ish, just stack the team with six 140+ SR players

But reflecting on last summers 50 over World Cup and as pitches wear and pressure builds I do wonder if a Root, Williamson style player becomes of even more value to knit an innings together

In ODIs you have a bit of time to recover if Root goes a bit slowly, but in T20 you don’t. If you absolutely knew ahead of time that a game was going to be 160 par then Root plays (in place of the denly/Malan position). But that’s so rare nowadays I honestly don’t think you can risk it. Stokes is also able to play that role, maybe not quite as well, but with the added dimension of the ability to accelerate.

 

[EdWeatherall]

In ODIs you have a bit of time to recover if Root goes a bit slowly, but in T20 you don’t. If you absolutely knew ahead of time that a game was going to be 160 par then Root plays (in place of the denly/Malan position). But that’s so rare nowadays I honestly don’t think you can risk it. Stokes is also able to play that role, maybe not quite as well, but with the added dimension of the ability to accelerate.

Is it though?
Everyone was talking about 300+, even 350+ innings were going to be the norm in the World Cup.
They weren’t. I do wonder if we’ll see a similar story of people expecting 200+ most of the time when in reality it’s closer to 160-180 at the business end of the tournament and even through some group games

 

[paulscholes18]

I saw that Ben Foakes had been recalled for the test team. Jennings scored a 100 batting 3 for the Lions vs Australia XI, could replace Denly, both played well last time we traveled to Sri Lanka

 

[DOTA]

Is it though?
Everyone was talking about 300+, even 350+ innings were going to be the norm in the World Cup.
They weren’t. I do wonder if we’ll see a similar story of people expecting 200+ most of the time when in reality it’s closer to 160-180 at the business end of the tournament and even through some group games

Until T20 has a culture of retiring players out, Root's not an international player. I suspect that day may come but we're not there yet. He has quite often made himself a nice 40 off 30 and then we've had to wait patiently until he finally connects with one of his insane attempts at upping the rate and gets out.

 

[slyadams]

Is it though?
Everyone was talking about 300+, even 350+ innings were going to be the norm in the World Cup.
They weren’t. I do wonder if we’ll see a similar story of people expecting 200+ most of the time when in reality it’s closer to 160-180 at the business end of the tournament and even through some group games

Possibly, but in truth last year's world cup shocked everyone score wise. I don't think the low scores had anything to do with every team suddely changing their scoring outlook and also bowling and fielding much better for a couple of months. With England hosting the pitches were, almost inexplicably, prepared to be quite slow and sticky.

You cannot count on that in every tournament. Would I rather play Root and pray the tournament would buck the trend of the past 4-5 years, or presume the trend would continue. You'd be a very brave man to go with the former. And as a few people have said you only really need (can afford) at most one player like that and Stokes is able to do it.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

In ODIs you have a bit of time to recover if Root goes a bit slowly, but in T20 you don’t. If you absolutely knew ahead of time that a game was going to be 160 par then Root plays (in place of the denly/Malan position). But that’s so rare nowadays I honestly don’t think you can risk it. Stokes is also able to play that role, maybe not quite as well, but with the added dimension of the ability to accelerate.

Until T20 has a culture of retiring players out, Root's not an international player. I suspect that day may come but we're not there yet. He has quite often made himself a nice 40 off 30 and then we've had to wait patiently until he finally connects with one of his insane attempts at upping the rate and gets out.

I hear you. The fear is we'll have a WC match where the top order all hit themselves out and we're crying out for a experienced steady Eddie, perhaps to partner Stokes or even someone further down, to repair the innings and just give us something to bowl at. However I understand taking a top order player pretty much solely for that particular turn of events isn't the way to go, and we're hardly lacking limited overs experience, so Root probably doesn't make it. We'll miss his golden arm though...

 

[sammsky1]

I don’t know, been thinking about this during today’s game

And I’m really torn, in a game (and pitch) like today you clearly don’t need a Root type with a SR of 120ish, just stack the team with six 140+ SR players

But reflecting on last summers 50 over World Cup and as pitches wear and pressure builds I do wonder if a Root, Williamson style player becomes of even more value to knit an innings together

Perhaps Root has a squad role but I think its a waste. Stokes has shown he has the skill and patience to play the 'knitting' role if it were required.

In any iT20 game, you need to go full blast in first 6 overs. So even if there are early wickets, England still need to send in 'blasters'. It's only between 6th-12th over that Root has any potential role, and I think that's where Stokes and Morgan come into play.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Root hasn't played any T20 cricket since May 2019 and is unlikely to play much T20 before the World T20 in October, it's a non-starter. Going by this series England need to sort out their new ball attack.

 

[Ish]

What’s the story about Hales’ exclusion? I know he’s had a ton of off field disciplinary issues but I didn’t know it was that bad that he’s seemingly just ignored for selection?

Liam Livingstone actually did alright in the BBL but is he retired from international cricket or is he just not really that good? (Considering your side has enough top order hitters anyway).

 

[DOTA]

What’s the story about Hales’ exclusion? I know he’s had a ton of off field disciplinary issues but I didn’t know it was that bad that he’s seemingly just ignored for selection?

Morgan thinks he's toxic.

 

[Ish]

Morgan thinks he's toxic.

Aargh, then his exclusion makes sense. Anything specifically happen or was it a host of incidents?

 

[DOTA]

Aargh, then his exclusion makes sense. Anything specifically happen or was it a host of incidents?

My understanding was that we weren't convinced he could be trusted not to share his drugs with other players.

I think Eoin was waking up screaming in the night from visions of Ben Stokes getting banned for coke days before the world cup final.

 

[Ish]

My understanding was that we weren't convinced he could be trusted not to share his drugs with other players.

I think Eoin was waking up screaming in the night from visions of Ben Stokes getting banned for coke days before the world cup final.

It’s a pity. Hales is quite a talented batsman - especially in the shorter formats. Would have made your batting power close to unplayable, with him, Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes etc.

 

[DOTA]

It’s a pity. Hales is quite a talented batsman - especially in the shorter formats. Would have made your batting power close to unplayable, with him, Roy, Bairstow, Morgan, Buttler, Stokes etc.

Two of those being openers in ODI's and three of them being so in T20 means we don't miss him much. If he was a middle order player we would but we're already failing to give Banton any chances at the top of the order cause we have too many openers.

 

[Ish]

Two of those being openers in ODI's and three of them being so in T20 means we don't miss him much. If he was a middle order player we would but we're already failing to give Banton any chances at the top of the order cause we have too many openers.

Yeah from that sense it’s been fairly less impactful not including him.

 

[Fiskey]

What’s the story about Hales’ exclusion? I know he’s had a ton of off field disciplinary issues but I didn’t know it was that bad that he’s seemingly just ignored for selection?

Liam Livingstone actually did alright in the BBL but is he retired from international cricket or is he just not really that good? (Considering your side has enough top order hitters anyway).

Failing two drugs test in the month before a World Cup isn't the sign of someone who is taking things seriously. He also cheated on his GF (who the ECB had flown out) while on tour to Barbados which didn't feed well into the general impression of his character. I've also heard stories that haven't come out which provide more colour on the night Stokes beat up the two guys, and it doesn't reflect well on Hales.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8693254/alex-hales-dumped-after-cheating/

Livingstone is good, just maybe not good enough.

 

[Ish]

Thanks @Fiskey

 

[NinjaFletch]

Failing two drugs test in the month before a World Cup isn't the sign of someone who is taking things seriously. He also cheated on his GF (who the ECB had flown out) while on tour to Barbados which didn't feed well into the general impression of his character. I've also heard stories that haven't come out which provide more colour on the night Stokes beat up the two guys, and it doesn't reflect well on Hales.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8693254/alex-hales-dumped-after-cheating/

Livingstone is good, just maybe not good enough.

I think you probably are slightly misunderstanding how the testing works here tbh.

He didn't fail two in a month (and he wouldn't have been tested twice because you'd be bound to fail the second one after having failed the first without having taken anything else), he failed it for the second time that month having failed one at some unknown point before it. We also don't know when he failed the second test, nor what he failed it for, because the ECB hushed it up. We do know that the ECB do hair tests, however, and we do know that most drugs are detectable in hair for about 90 days and that he was cleared to play again by 3 May. Knowing all that it's possible that he took whatever he took 3/4 months before we all found out about it taking us back to January. The moralities of taking recreational drugs aside it's hardly a greater sign of lack of commitment or focus than him having gone out on the piss in the off season would have been.

As a wider point, I'm a little bit sceptical of the ECB's handling of this.

Everyone could have told you that about Hales years before it all came out. I posted about it on here about 3/4 years ago and said in detail how he was avoiding getting caught (shaving his hair off after using). He was a notorious user of recreational drugs throughout his time around the Nottingham and England dressing rooms and it didn't stop him being picked, nor was it going to until the media caught wind of why he wasn't playing and broke the story. There is some suggestion that the selectors didn't know and Hales didn't tell his teammates, but some people in the ECB clearly did and were either unfazed by it or willing to turn a blind eye to it as long as they felt it could be hushed up. I find the idea that none of his teammates had any clue when I, a random bloke on the internet, did to be implausible to the extreme it strikes me as their own attempts to distance themselves from the PR backlash.

He might not be a very nice bloke, few sportsmen are, but he's missed a World Cup and a near year of international cricket because of it. I can't help but think he's served his time.

 

[Fiskey]

I think you probably are slightly misunderstanding how the testing works here tbh.

He didn't fail two in a month (and he wouldn't have been tested twice because you'd be bound to fail the second one after having failed the first without having taken anything else), he failed it for the second time that month having failed one at some unknown point before it. We also don't know when he failed the second test, nor what he failed it for, because the ECB hushed it up. We do know that the ECB do hair tests, however, and we do know that most drugs are detectable in hair for about 90 days and that he was cleared to play again by 3 May. Knowing all that it's possible that he took whatever he took 3/4 months before we all found out about it taking us back to January. The moralities of taking recreational drugs aside it's hardly a greater sign of lack of commitment or focus than him having gone out on the piss in the off season would have been.

As a wider point, I'm a little bit sceptical of the ECB's handling of this.

Everyone could have told you that about Hales years before it all came out. I posted about it on here about 3/4 years ago and said in detail how he was avoiding getting caught (shaving his hair off after using). He was a notorious user of recreational drugs throughout his time around the Nottingham and England dressing rooms and it didn't stop him being picked, nor was it going to until the media caught wind of why he wasn't playing and broke the story. There is some suggestion that the selectors didn't know and Hales didn't tell his teammates, but some people in the ECB clearly did and were either unfazed by it or willing to turn a blind eye to it as long as they felt it could be hushed up. I find the idea that none of his teammates had any clue when I, a random bloke on the internet, did to be implausible to the extreme it strikes me as their own attempts to distance themselves from the PR backlash.

He might not be a very nice bloke, few sportsmen are, but he's missed a World Cup and a near year of international cricket because of it. I can't help but think he's served his time.

Agreed, I'm sure some teammates knew about it, but I'm actually not sure the ECB hierarchy would've done. This kind of thing would probably ended up on Strauss's desk and he had other things to worry about at the time.

Regarding his return to the team, I just don't think it would be necessary. He had already been dropped from the first eleven, he's not a great fielder and if he's the kind of bloke Morgan wants around the squad I think that's fair enough. We missed him in the World Cup, but now Malan and Banton and take his role as back up batsman without too much fuss I think.

 

[paulscholes18]

It’s no surprise but Mark Wood is injured and out of the Sri Lanka tour

 

[Nico87]

Is the Sri Lanka tour not being televised?

 

[charlton66]

Is the Sri Lanka tour not being televised?

It's on Willow TV in US. I don't know about anywhere else.

 

[paulscholes18]

Matt Parkinson didn’t do his chances of a 1st test cap any harm taking 4/68 with Dom Bess 3/54

 

[Ether]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

confirming they're prioritising the Blast and the Hundred

 

[EdWeatherall]

Buttler auctioning his World Cup shirt is a very generous gesture

Top man

 

[arnie_ni]

Re watching the wc final. Buttler's innings changed the game. That bump in run rate allowed stokes to bat through

 

[The Cat]

SKY have been showing the 2013 Ashes the last few nights.

Steve Smith came in at 5 tonight averaging 30 - what on earth must be have averaged since 2013 I wonder?

Forgot Michael Clarke's average too - he was at 53 he dipped at the very end didn't he?

 

[JohnnyKills]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

confirming they're prioritising the Blast and the Hundred

According to George Dobell on Cricinfo, the Hundred is unlikely to go ahead this year. In fact, he think it's unlikely to happen at all.

His reasoning is that the ECB will be screwed financially as a result of this year's write-off, and may not want to throw its dwindling resources behind a risky new competition next year.

Let's hope he's right and this whole mad experiment is scrapped.

 

[JohnnyKills]

SKY have been showing the 2013 Ashes the last few nights.

Steve Smith came in at 5 tonight averaging 30 - what on earth must be have averaged since 2013 I wonder?

Forgot Michael Clarke's average too - he was at 53 he dipped at the very end didn't he?

Aussie averages are always higher than you think because they play half their cricket at home, on good wickets. And teams usually wilt when they go to Australia.

An average of 42-43 for an English player is probably as good as 45-46 for an Australian IMO.

 

[arnie_ni]

SKY have been showing the 2013 Ashes the last few nights.

Steve Smith came in at 5 tonight averaging 30 - what on earth must be have averaged since 2013 I wonder?

http://www.howstat.com/cricket/statistics/Players/PlayerYears.asp?PlayerID=3756

One year under 70 ignoring the 1 game he played this year

 

[arnie_ni]

Aussie averages are always higher than you think because they play half their cricket at home, on good wickets. And teams usually wilt when they go to Australia.

An average of 42-43 for an English player is probably as good as 45-46 for an Australian IMO.

Except he averages 62.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Except he averages 62.

Was talking about Clarke, as the previous posted was.

 

[arnie_ni]

Was talking about Clarke, as the previous posted was.

It also spoke about steve Smith

 

[JohnnyKills]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/29091975/no-english-cricket-july-hundred-decision-delayed

 

[sammsky1]

 

[ArmchairCritic]

Been some decent content on the Sky Sports Cricket youtube page if anyone is having withdrawals.

Channel Link

England quick bowlers have been getting practicing again around the country and the plan at the moment appears to have 2 biosecure venues (Ageas Bowl & Old Trafford) to enable England to play all their internationals. I think it is pretty likely we will have some cricket to watch at some point this summer.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Can't help but feel like Hales has been treated really poorly by the ECB and Morgan here. A transgression felt minor enough by the ECB big wigs to the extent that they wished to cover it up to start with has now turned into an indefinite international ban with no end in sight. By all means punish him, but it now feels like an incredibly arbitrary, disproportionate punishment now.

 

[JohnnyKills]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/c...ties-clash-domestic-games-restart-summer.html

TLR

Apparently some counties are refusing to restart as they'd rather claim the furlough money.
There's talk that the big counties will simply restart without them.
They're even threatening a breakaway championship.

Can easily see the bigger counties using this as a convenient pretext to break free of the smaller ones.

Also, there's talk that some counties will eventually become white-ball only. Suggested this myself a while back - with crowds falling, it might be the only option left even though it's brutal for CC fans.