Yay! Chuffed with that. Nissanka you beauty 
This could have been a really close series if not for the sheer brilliance of Joe Root.
This could have been a really close series if not for the sheer brilliance of Joe Root.
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
He doesn't come across well at all, I'll agree, but his international record is impressive and he has been a good bowler for many years now.
The test team should simply be the best 11 cricketers in the country in their respective positions. The team we selected for this series smacked of arrogance and complacency, picking at least two players based on 'qualities' rather than on performances. Hull, for example, is way too raw for test matches; Dan Lawrence should be nowhere near opening the batting at test level; Chris Woakes probably doesn't consider himself a test match number 8, let alone a number 7. Added to that, there wasn't nearly enough batting depth because the bowling attack was top heavy (we didn't need a spinner for this test and Root could have bowled part time offies).
It's no surprise that we ended up losing to a pretty mediocre Sri Lankan side. The balance of that team was shambolic and it got its just desserts.
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Yep we definetly saw aspects of the dislikeable side of this leadership group - they generally get a pass from me as they get far more right than wrong, but this was poor.
I'm not sure you can quibble with the selection of Hull. You have to find out about players some time and he took 4 wickets I think it was in the first innings? It's not his fault the batters threw their wickets away, the coaches inexplicably decided playing Lawrence as an opener wasn't disrespectful and pointless, and that like you say they got the spinner selection wrong.
Jacks or just a plain old batter would have made more sense than Bashir given the conditions, but then those kind of mistakes do happen. Choosing Lawrence and letting the batsmen get away with pointless arrogant behaviour was the main mistake.
Hull's selection is one that I can at least understand. England do need a left-armer and even though he's clearly raw he's not that far off. Just needs to sort out his run up and sort out his release point.
But yeah, the vulnerability of the tail could have easily been mitigated by dropping Bashir and bringing in Jacks to bat at seven.
He was awful in the winter, his pace was down to late 70s mph. The other issues you stated I agree with aside from Hull where I can see what the selectors were trying to go with. As others have said, Jacks at 7 would have made sense with Woakes at 8.
And this was one of the key reasons we lost. Idiotic shots in the first innings where we could have had a big total.
So - I remember English cricket being pretty crap in the late 90's, early 2000's (the last time i took a proper interest in cricket). Since then England have actually become quite decent and are consistently one of the better teams in the world. What changed?
You are looking for a snappy summary of the last twenty years?
Within which we have been very shit, very good, and everything in-between.
One thing often highlighted is that we used to drop players who had a bad few games and replace them with whoever had been performing well in county cricket. We now give players we do believe in prolonged runs and we often just completely ignore excellent county players if we don't think they have a skillset suited to international cricket.
Then we started batting much more aggressively in one day cricket.
The test team quite recently had a period of a few years where it was so bad it was being compared to the late 90's team though, so we're still capable of being shite.
Then we started batting much more aggressively in one day cricket.
The test team quite recently had a period of a few years where it was so bad it was being compared to the late 90's team though, so we're still capable of being shite.
Thanks. Thats the kind of stuff i wanted to know.
Yeah sounds daft when you put it like that, but I was wondering like if there were any process changes, or development changes? maybe in the structure of the cricket board, or coaching setup? Maybe english cricket developed it's own La Masia?
Lawrence dropped for the Pakistan tour unsurprisingly.
Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, Gus Atkinson, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Brydon Carse, Jordan Cox, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Josh Hull, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Matthew Potts, Joe Root, Jamie Smith, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes
Team for tomorrow's T20 against Australia has also been announced already for some reason.
Phil Salt (capt/wk), Will Jacks, Jordan Cox, Liam Livingstone, Jacob Bethell, Sam Curran, Jamie Overton, Jofra Archer, Adil Rashid, Saqib Mahmood, Reece Topley
Ben Stokes (capt), Rehan Ahmed, Gus Atkinson, Shoaib Bashir, Harry Brook, Brydon Carse, Jordan Cox, Zak Crawley, Ben Duckett, Josh Hull, Jack Leach, Ollie Pope, Matthew Potts, Joe Root, Jamie Smith, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes
Team for tomorrow's T20 against Australia has also been announced already for some reason.
Phil Salt (capt/wk), Will Jacks, Jordan Cox, Liam Livingstone, Jacob Bethell, Sam Curran, Jamie Overton, Jofra Archer, Adil Rashid, Saqib Mahmood, Reece Topley
Pleased to see Rehan back in for the Pakistan tour. Feels a tad early for Josh Hull based on that second innings evidence but potentially top experience for him if not over-used.
The batting should go well out there - we bowled out of our skin last time, including Ollie Robinsons talented twin turning up for that tour before disappearing - so alot will hinge on how this inexperienced lot go...Although Pakistan are a mess.
Assuming Stokes is okay to bowl I think Hull is unlikely to feature. It's still not confirmed where they're actually playing these matches so they've possibly selected an extra seamer or two just to cover that.
Yeah should be easy for England. Pakistan deal in peaks and troughs, no consistency whatsoever, they're currently in a massive trough.
Harsh on Tom Hartley who is a decent all round cricketer but Leach is obviously back in now. Likely only 3 seamers will play so don't think they needed Carse in there. Also not sure how useful Woakes will be there.
This is a very weak batting lineup.
That's horrible.
I know Bethall at 5, Curran at 6 and Overton at 7. Talk about bowler heavy, who they hell thought that was a good idea. Ridiculous selection and no balance.
That's horrible.
Bowling lineup is excellent though. Not sure about Bethell but I'm not mad at the rest.
Curran is in class form with the bat and Overton had been the finisher for Surrey all blast season - I don't love it but it's not as bad as it sounds.
Curran has never really shown it yet with the bat at international level. I mean there are 9 people who could bowl in the lineup, bit insane if you ask me. Still too high for Overton in my opinion.
He hasn't but this is a low key tour even if it's the Aussies T20 wise - the ODI selection will hold more weight as it's the Champions Trophy next year.
I mean the way England turn up sometimes, I will be proved wrong and they will smash 250, you can never tell.
It looks weak on paper but 4-7 are all genuine all-rounders in this format. Bethell is basically Moeen's replacement, average only slightly lower with similar strike rate. Overton has batted 4 or 5 at times for Surrey.
Curran is the interesting one for me. I thought they'd give him the opportunity higher up the order but it seems not. He has an awful overall record with the bat in this format for England but a good one domestically batting between 3-5. He's done that twice for England, scoring 50(32) and 24(11). I'd like to see him at 4 with Livingstone and Bethell moving down one.
Curran is the interesting one for me. I thought they'd give him the opportunity higher up the order but it seems not. He has an awful overall record with the bat in this format for England but a good one domestically batting between 3-5. He's done that twice for England, scoring 50(32) and 24(11). I'd like to see him at 4 with Livingstone and Bethell moving down one.
It absolutely helps that England have more money to spend on sport than a lot of nations. Everything else flows from there. More money spent on youth cricket, sports science etc.
Going well.
EDIT - Good recovery. Just the 86 from the powerplay in the end.
EDIT - Good recovery. Just the 86 from the powerplay in the end.
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Head might be my favorite player in the last couple of years. Technically not the greatest but goes full throttle every time.
In the cold light of day that England line up has to be the worst white ball side we've put out on paper in yeeeeeeears.
Changed my tune from last night
Changed my tune from last night
Gonna lose by an innings.In the cold light of day that England line up has to be the worst white ball side we've put out on paper in yeeeeeeears.
Changed my tune from last night
England’s problem in the 90s was never a skill deficit. But they were badly coached, selected and the structure to manage their fitness and mental wellbeing was piss poor. Some of the stories you hear of tours back in the day are a world away from now.
Since then England have basically put some effort into those things and improved massively but there’s also a widening disparity between the big 3 (India, Australia, England) and the rest of the cricket world in terms of what is invested into the infrastructure to develop and look after talented players from age group cricket right up to the top. I think amongst the big 3 England are still a little way behind Australia and India in terms of planning and execution.
Jamie Overton as a specialist bat is so odd. Just pick someone who can actually bat or bowl?
It’s giving early 2000s ODI vibes isn’t it? Just chock full of blokes who can bat and bowl but don’t really excel at either much. Half expecting Michael Yardy to turn his arm over in a minute.In the cold light of day that England line up has to be the worst white ball side we've put out on paper in yeeeeeeears.
Changed my tune from last night
The umpire
Australia making a hash of this.
That would be T20 world champion Michael Yardy.
, there is something wonderfully endearing about England in short format cricket between 1999-2015. Boy have we seen some things.Really interested to see how McCullum approaches reworking the white ball side.
Logjam of openers, batting-wicket keepers and all rounders who just don’t really excel at one thing or the other.
Need to find that right balance in the middle order and find a consistent 2nd spinner to support and replace Rashid.
I do find it strange that Duckett doesn’t get more of a go in the shorter formats.
Logjam of openers, batting-wicket keepers and all rounders who just don’t really excel at one thing or the other.
Need to find that right balance in the middle order and find a consistent 2nd spinner to support and replace Rashid.
I do find it strange that Duckett doesn’t get more of a go in the shorter formats.
Great comeback with the ball
3 hat-trick balls in the same innings
Will Jacks flatters to deceive really