EPL Title race 2018/2019

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
Spurs have done well to reach the CL final (luck on route v Ajax,City) but don't let it disguise what was average league season of 13 defeats and 26 and 27 points off the top 2.

It was an average league season BECAUSE we reached the Champions League final.

We don't really have the squad to play Ajax/Dortmund/City home & away whilst also focusing heavily on the league. We were also ravaged by injuries this season, with our best player out for months at a time with ankle issues and our midfield decimated at times. Those injury issues in combination with a deep run in the cups led to us finishing fourth and so far behind 1st/2nd.

Had we gone out of the CL early, I have no doubt whatsoever we would have secured 3rd, comfortably behind 1st/2nd but nowhere near as far. The cup run really took it out of us both physically & mentally and isn't comparable to Arsenal & Chelsea having to play the likes of Sparta Prague and Frankfurt, we were playing elite European teams regularly and it showed.

I think the team lost focus on the league after it became crystal clear we couldn't win it, and all the focus went on a competition we still had a chance in. We've looked jaded/lacking in concentration in many recent league games against poor opposition, and a completely different team when we play in Europe. That's not just down to a lucky cup run, it's clearly because the squad had their priority .. which is an issue, and shows how much we need better depth going forward so we can compete in 3-4 competitions, we still have the worst depth out of the top six.

Our starting XI when all are fit I would say are far above average, not quite 'brilliant' but a very, very good side capable of beating anybody on their day. But we get easily bogged down by having numerous games a week and injury issues have a bigger impact on us than other teams.
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
No. Them finishing 20 something points below the champions and runner-ups makes them closer to average than brilliant.
If we win the Champions League, will we still be closer to average?

League performance isn't the be all to end all.
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
1,302
It was an average league season BECAUSE we reached the Champions League final.

We don't really have the squad to play Ajax/Dortmund/City home & away whilst also focusing heavily on the league. We were also ravaged by injuries this season, with our best player out for months at a time with ankle issues and our midfield decimated at times. Those injury issues in combination with a deep run in the cups led to us finishing fourth and so far behind 1st/2nd.

Had we gone out of the CL early, I have no doubt whatsoever we would have secured 3rd, comfortably behind 1st/2nd but nowhere near as far. The cup run really took it out of us both physically & mentally and isn't comparable to Arsenal & Chelsea having to play the likes of Sparta Prague and Frankfurt, we were playing elite European teams regularly and it showed.

I think the team lost focus on the league after it became crystal clear we couldn't win it, and all the focus went on a competition we still had a chance in. We've looked jaded/lacking in concentration in many recent league games against poor opposition, and a completely different team when we play in Europe. That's not just down to a lucky cup run, it's clearly because the squad had their priority .. which is an issue, and shows how much we need better depth going forward so we can compete in 3-4 competitions, we still have the worst depth out of the top six.

Our starting XI when all are fit I would say are far above average, not quite 'brilliant' but a very, very good side capable of beating anybody on their day. But we get easily bogged down by having numerous games a week and injury issues have a bigger impact on us than other teams.
My point on spurs is they had average league season more than been average. If it wasn't for injuries Spurs would have finished ahead of Chelsea and probably a similar points total to last season (77 points i think it was)
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
My point on spurs is they had average league season more than been average. If it wasn't for injuries Spurs would have finished ahead of Chelsea and probably a similar points total to last season (77 points i think it was)
Yeah, that's fair.
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
1,302
The Spurs were lucky narrative makes me chuckle especially since Spurs had key players missing for both those ties, nothing lucky about winning both ties as that's what you're meant to do to go through to the next rounds.

As does the 13 losses in the league people keep bleating about which when you really look at it is pointless seeing as they had 23 wins (3rd highest in the league) both those stats are meaningless mind you because as long as I've been watching football I've always thought that the stat which determines where you deserve to finish is the amount of points you have at the end of the day, forgive me If I'm wrong?
It's fact as well as a narrative that Spurs was lucky in those ties v Ajax,City. Nothing wrong with a bit of luck as most teams need that to win anything and i hope you get loads of luck v Liverpool to win the final.

13 defeats is incredible amount and since mid Jan in league and cups Spurs have lost i think 12 games. 71 points is all Spurs got and that points total wouldn't have been enough the last two seasons to finish 4th and i doubt that total will be enough next season either.
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
It's fact as well as a narrative that Spurs was lucky in those ties v Ajax,City. Nothing wrong with a bit of luck as most teams need that to win anything and i hope you get loads of luck v Liverpool to win the final.

13 defeats is incredible amount and since mid Jan in league and cups Spurs have lost i think 12 games. 71 points is all Spurs got and that points total wouldn't have been enough the last two seasons to finish 4th and i doubt that total will be enough next season either.

We weren't lucky vs Ajax, we were the better side for 2 out of the four halves and took them apart in the second half in their own backyard.

If anything we were unlucky with injuries, first leg we had basically no attack.

City, sure. I think any side in the world would need luck to beat City over two legs though.
 

adexkola

Arsenal supporter
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
38,748
Location
The CL is a glorified FA Cup set to music
Supports
orderly disembarking on planes
If we win the Champions League, will we still be closer to average?

League performance isn't the be all to end all.
So, just to clarify, this conversation is about the quality of your team, not your season accomplishment.

I don't see a brilliant team when I look at this Spurs side. I see a team that has quality pieces, but needs a lot of work. Of course winning the CL is great, and my opinion shouldn't even matter to you all summer if you win it, but that doesn't make me say your team is brilliant or great. Average teams in the past have rode their luck in cup competitions. You wouldn't be the first London side to win the competition in that fashion!

If you guys win it, does that negate the need for Levy to invest in the squad?

City and Liverpool have set the pace for what constitutes a great or brilliant side. The rest of the "top 6" are far behind that.
 

purgethefallen

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Mar 7, 2019
Messages
506
Location
Basingstoke
We weren't lucky vs Ajax, we were the better side for 2 out of the four halves and took them apart in the second half in their own backyard.

If anything we were unlucky with injuries, first leg we had basically no attack.

City, sure. I think any side in the world would need luck to beat City over two legs though.
No you didn'y. You scored two quick goals but after that Ajax settled down and created far more than Spurs. It was only hoof ball "tactics", there was nothing brilliant about it.
 

always_hoping

Full Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
1,302
We weren't lucky vs Ajax, we were the better side for 2 out of the four halves and took them apart in the second half in their own backyard.

If anything we were unlucky with injuries, first leg we had basically no attack.

City, sure. I think any side in the world would need luck to beat City over two legs though.
I think Liverpool supporters will be on here to remind us all that they beat Man City 5-1 on AGG last season

In the 2nd half of the 2nd leg Ajax had number of chances to close out that tie the type of chances that Liverpool won't be missing in the final if they get them. Spurs scored in the 6th minute of injury time to go through and i'm not even sure where that amount of injury time came from?
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
No you didn'y. You scored two quick goals but after that Ajax settled down and created far more than Spurs. It was only hoof ball "tactics", there was nothing brilliant about it.
:lol:

We had 20 shots and more of the ball than they did. Even in the first half Son was through on goal and Eriksen missed a great chance inside their box.

Does it not count if you score the goals in quick succession? Hoof balls are a valid tactic by the way, there's no queensbury rules in football. Nobody said it was genius but if Ajax can't deal with a punt to Llorente then too bad.

Ajax couldn't cope with us at all in that second half, hence why they conceded three goals.
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
I think Liverpool supporters will be on here to remind us all that they beat Man City 5-1 on AGG last season

In the 2nd half of the 2nd leg Ajax had number of chances to close out that tie the type of chances that Liverpool won't be missing in the final if they get them. Spurs scored in the 6th minute of injury time to go through and i'm not even sure where that amount of injury time came from?
Good for them. Their opening goal in the first leg was offside, a valid goal was disallowed which would have put City 2-0 up in the second leg. They ended up with a very comfortable scoreline but multiple key moments went their way, and I'm talking referee decisions.

Injuries and timewasting, which their keeper got booked for. One of the few times the referee actually decided to make a full accounting of all the shithouse tactics teams used to waste time.
 

RobinLFC

Cries when Liverpool doesn't get praised
Joined
May 20, 2014
Messages
12,408
Location
Belgium
Supports
Liverpool
Ajax couldn't cope with us at all in that second half, hence why they conceded three goals.
Could've scored a few more as well if they were a bit more clinical, Ziyech hit the post for example.

There simply wasn't much between the two teams, so in the end it's always deserved for the team that goes through imo, even though you could make arguments for Ajax as well.
 

MagicKarpet

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 10, 2019
Messages
225
Location
Bournemouth
Supports
Tottenham
It's fact as well as a narrative that Spurs was lucky in those ties v Ajax,City. Nothing wrong with a bit of luck as most teams need that to win anything and i hope you get loads of luck v Liverpool to win the final.

13 defeats is incredible amount and since mid Jan in league and cups Spurs have lost i think 12 games. 71 points is all Spurs got and that points total wouldn't have been enough the last two seasons to finish 4th and i doubt that total will be enough next season either.
It's a fact that we were unlucky through injuries as well though that's my point, in fact it's more factual than the lucky narrative as that's a totally subjective opinion. I agree on there's nothing wrong with a bit of luck and all teams get lucky at some point in cup runs but I'm not having that this run has come down to pure luck because if anything it's the total opposite.

People (not necessarily you) have been presenting myopic arguments about the Spurs CL run but totally ignore the facts as it doesn't fit with their narrative.

13 losses is a lot as is 23 wins, I really don't see the point in focusing on either of those columns because points tally is all that matters I mean we had 6 losses in 2015/16 finished one place higher and had less points than what we have now...its meaningless.

I'm not even going to get into the points difference over separate seasons, it's such a Liverpool arguement, totally pointless :D
 

SquishyMcSquish

New Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
8,198
Supports
Tottenham
Could've scored a few more as well if they were a bit more clinical, Ziyech hit the post for example.

There simply wasn't much between the two teams, so in the end it's always deserved for the team that goes through imo, even though you could make arguments for Ajax as well.
Sure, but that's their own fault. It's not anybody else's fault if you miss easy chances.

We weren't lucky, nor were they. It was a fair tie where if either team won you could say fair enough.
 

BobbyManc

Full Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2012
Messages
7,569
Location
The Wall
Supports
Man City
You can't say Spurs have had an 'average' season. In the Prem, yeah they have underwhelmed, no denying that, but they've still secured top four which is as good as what they could realistically have hoped for. They've now got a CL final to look forward to. Even if they get slapped by Liverpool, it's been a terrific season for them. Aside from winning one of the two cups, not sure what more they could have asked for, especially when you factor in that they literally signed no one the whole season. That's unprecedented.
 

Roy'sMagicHat

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Dec 29, 2018
Messages
37
I had to laugh again today. 97 points and they still couldn’t win the league. 97 points!! Hahahaha!
 

MuranoLover

New Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2009
Messages
1,207
City vs Liverpool stats

Points after turnovers - 4 vs 16

Goals in first 15 mins - 19 vs 9

Goals in last 15 mins - 13 vs 25

Changes in starting line - 110 vs 76


This basically shows City has more depth in the squad , was controlling matches from their start and Liverpool finished 1 pt behind only because they had the spirit / luck to gain a lot of points from a not winning position with scoring goals in the last 15
 

CognitiveNeuro

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Apr 16, 2018
Messages
393
City vs Liverpool stats

Points after turnovers - 4 vs 16

Goals in first 15 mins - 19 vs 9

Goals in last 15 mins - 13 vs 25

Changes in starting line - 110 vs 76


This basically shows City has more depth in the squad , was controlling matches from their start and Liverpool finished 1 pt behind only because they had the spirit / luck to gain a lot of points from a not winning position with scoring goals in the last 15
Yes I noticed this too. Guardiola was very smart in that he especially pushed for an early goal every game in the latter stages of the season (when things were getting tense). This would allow them to settle and conserve more energy by playing with more possession and eased the nerves. It also made the opposition come out and open up more spaces. It basically meant that they didn't even need to rotate that much because they could afford to play 2nd gear throughout the match.
 

Thunderhead

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Messages
2,338
Supports
City
City vs Liverpool stats

Points after turnovers - 4 vs 16

Goals in first 15 mins - 19 vs 9

Goals in last 15 mins - 13 vs 25

Changes in starting line - 110 vs 76


This basically shows City has more depth in the squad , was controlling matches from their start and Liverpool finished 1 pt behind only because they had the spirit / luck to gain a lot of points from a not winning position with scoring goals in the last 15
would like to stat for goals in last 15 mins expanded to show if a goal led to a win and also goals conceded in last 15 mins that led to dropped points.