[Ekeke]

However, a flat back 3 covers much less space and literally has to hold there space.

This is something Lindelof does not do - you see him moving around all possible spaces. Bailly is a defender that likes to hold his ground but when asked to moved around different areas can be very rash & clumsy. Rojo is similair but can defintely be improved upon.

It's about giving them less space to conquer and allowing Lindelof to do the moving around.

Im not sure it will work by any means; but it makes their job easier and balances the defence out.

In a back 2 both Bailly and Rojo dont have the ability to hold their ground and a player of the defensive capability of Smalling is much better. Lindelof in a back 2 will get caught out much more because he doesnt stand his ground - and we see this when alot of attackers manage to get the ball in dangerous places in our defensive box (luckily for him these chances have not been taken as of yet; however does not mean that these do not exist)

Koulibaly is good for a back 2, just as much as Smalling or Van Dijk.

But defenders like Lindelof, Bailly, Rojo are better spread across to lay a field of a defence in front of the goal in my opinion than asking them to be able to defend in a back 2 and cover their right, left and centre side of the attack.

I can see your theory but I'm not even convinced that defense would be solid enough for a team to finish in europa league places. Done with better players the results would be a lot better.

You'd just need to cross the ball with bodies in the box and you'll get plenty of joy against that and press Rojo when he has it, he'll slip up with his overplaying.

Teams that play 3 at the back are also subject to more crosses from opponents from what I've noticed as well. It makes sense because they have CBs who then have to make their way out and try to stop crosses coming in, but they are more exposed to pace and trickery this way than they are used to playing in a back 4. So the wide players either get their cross in before the CBs are out to them, or the wide player can use the extra space and their speed to get past them and play the ball in afterwards. And yes of course there are players playing down the sides, but wingbacks will be further up the pitch and thats why it falls on the CBs to deal with it.

Given how weak that defense would be to balls in the air, De Gea not being the best at dealing with high balls either and having to deal with even more crosses sounds like a very bad time.

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah, I'm sure you'd shred them.

Better than I would against a fairly solid defense, yes

 

[Johan07]

I can see your theory but I'm not even convinced that defense would be solid enough for a team to finish in europa league places. Done with better players the results would be a lot better.

You'd just need to cross the ball with bodies in the box and you'll get plenty of joy against that and press Rojo when he has it, he'll slip up with his overplaying.

Teams that play 3 at the back are also subject to more crosses from opponents from what I've noticed as well. It makes sense because they have CBs who then have to make their way out and try to stop crosses coming in, but they are more exposed to pace and trickery this way than they are used to playing in a back 4. So the wide players either get their cross in before the CBs are out to them, or the wide player can use the extra space and their speed to get past them and play the ball in afterwards. And yes of course there are players playing down the sides, but wingbacks will be further up the pitch and thats why it falls on the CBs to deal with it.

Given how weak that defense would be to balls in the air, De Gea not being the best at dealing with high balls either and having to deal with even more crosses sounds like a very bad time.

There are many ways to play a back three but one of the constants is probably just the opposite: You never move a CB out in the channels when playing a back three.
Playing with a back four or a back three has absolutely nothing to do with how many crosses you concede.

 

[Jibbs]

I have a weird feeling Bailly will come good now and develop a solid partnership with Lindelof.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

There are many ways to play a back three but one of the constants is probably just the opposite: You never move a CB out in the channels when playing a back three.
Playing with a back four or a back three has absolutely nothing to do with how many crosses you concede.

This is how I see it too- Bailly spends his time standing his ground. For me why teams play the Back 3 is to in a quantifiable way outnumber the attack by having the right person in the right time standing their ground. I'd go and say that a flat back 3 with wingbacks makes crossing much harder as it has to come from deeper due to our defense having a potential of a flat back 5 on the back foot - leaving the attack to be outnumbered and having to attack centrally taking the defenders on.

This is why I see Bailly more capable of defending in such a situation when an attacker takes him on because he is covered by the RWB and the Central CB in my case Lindelof on the right and left side of him respectively. I find for the type of defender Bailly is - he will fail here trying to play like smalling that covers his space very well.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Just to add -

a defender like smalling or van Dijk are better in a back 2 because they are static defenders which wait for the attackers to attack them on and then covers that angle of an attack.

I dont see Bailly becoming one of those defenders. He likes to be aggresive and forward with his defence - to directly take the attacker on (instead of the attacker taking the defender on). To do this in a back 2 makes bailly move around all over the place rather than standing his ground in one particular space before initiating a defensive tackle forwardly on the attacker.

Why a defender like smalling or van dijk are less suited to the sides (RCB & LCB) of a back 3 - is because they are too static in that situation; they invite presssure to make the last tackle rather than using the oppurtunity to break the attack down.

In a back 2 - we need static defenders like Smalling & Van Dijk. This is why Blind did quite good for us; because he lacked the pace to initiate a forward tackle (more so that if he messed up he could not cover), so would wait alongside smalling for the attacker to attack before they could defend.

In a back 3 we cant invite pressure too deep, and when the moment is right - we need one of our defenders to make an 'attacking tackle' to break down the attack an initiate a counter attack. In my opinion - Rojo & Bailly played good football under Jose because they played football the same way - the opposite to how Smalling and BLind played defensive football the same way too.

What Ole needs to do is to decide if we play with a back 3 or a back 2. In a back 2, only Smalling is the defender that can remain defensively constant for us as Lindelof tends to wonder around too much in a back two.

In a back 3 however, Bailly, Rojo and Lindelof become more the type of defender that defend in a forward manner and a player like Smalling becomes less needed unless we play a sweeper type role. However the sweeper role makes a back 5 too defensive and is outdated because of it; that is why a CB/CDM player needs to play as a the central defender who covers both the attacking and defensive central position - being the one that guards the RCB and LCB right until they have to make a forward tackle.

When Bailly goes forward to take a tackle; lindelof needs to drop back. When Bailly sits back Lindelof goes forward. This is something Lindelof already does but struggles to maintain in a back 3.

Lindelof is the defensive version of Lingard - the player that allows Martial & Rashford to attack from the best possible angle by running in to the space that they have left to attack - meaning we always have an attacking fluid front 3. (check my post in Lingard's thread) Lindelof is the guy who can help us have a fluid back 3.

 

[Raven]

Better than I would against a fairly solid defense, yes

I'm just fecking around, I don't like that back 3 either.

 

[Jeffthered]

Let's wait and see the impact of Ole and Phelan on Bailly, and all those players we are yet to really see since the new regime. Valencia, Sanchez, Bailly, Rojo, Smalling.. let's see what the thinking is, and how Bailly performs.

We seem all to quick to forget the player who arrived.... he was superb, made us look a completely different team. Mourinho messed him up, badly, so let's just see how things go. I think he is going to be fantastic. I just hope he still wishes to remain.

 

[AgentP]

Just to add -

a defender like smalling or van Dijk are better in a back 2 because they are static defenders which wait for the attackers to attack them on and then covers that angle of an attack.

I dont see Bailly becoming one of those defenders. He likes to be aggresive and forward with his defence - to directly take the attacker on (instead of the attacker taking the defender on). To do this in a back 2 makes bailly move around all over the place rather than standing his ground in one particular space before initiating a defensive tackle forwardly on the attacker.

Why a defender like smalling or van dijk are less suited to the sides (RCB & LCB) of a back 3 - is because they are too static in that situation; they invite presssure to make the last tackle rather than using the oppurtunity to break the attack down.

In a back 2 - we need static defenders like Smalling & Van Dijk. This is why Blind did quite good for us; because he lacked the pace to initiate a forward tackle (more so that if he messed up he could not cover), so would wait alongside smalling for the attacker to attack before they could defend.

In a back 3 we cant invite pressure too deep, and when the moment is right - we need one of our defenders to make an 'attacking tackle' to break down the attack an initiate a counter attack. In my opinion - Rojo & Bailly played good football under Jose because they played football the same way - the opposite to how Smalling and BLind played defensive football the same way too.

What Ole needs to do is to decide if we play with a back 3 or a back 2. In a back 2, only Smalling is the defender that can remain defensively constant for us as Lindelof tends to wonder around too much in a back two.

In a back 3 however, Bailly, Rojo and Lindelof become more the type of defender that defend in a forward manner and a player like Smalling becomes less needed unless we play a sweeper type role. However the sweeper role makes a back 5 too defensive and is outdated because of it; that is why a CB/CDM player needs to play as a the central defender who covers both the attacking and defensive central position - being the one that guards the RCB and LCB right until they have to make a forward tackle.

When Bailly goes forward to take a tackle; lindelof needs to drop back. When Bailly sits back Lindelof goes forward. This is something Lindelof already does but struggles to maintain in a back 3.

Lindelof is the defensive version of Lingard - the player that allows Martial & Rashford to attack from the best possible angle by running in to the space that they have left to attack - meaning we always have an attacking fluid front 3. (check my post in Lingard's thread) Lindelof is the guy who can help us have a fluid back 3.

I don't think we can classify defenders the way you have done. It's all about judgement and timing. If the defender feels he can rush up and the win the ball, then he will. If he feels he might not, he'll stay back and defend. If Bailly keeps rushing forward but can't win the ball, that means he has poor decision making. Most of the top defenders in the world can play in a back 3 and back 4. The ones who can only play in a back 3 imo are basically not good defenders.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

Let's wait and see the impact of Ole and Phelan on Bailly, and all those players we are yet to really see since the new regime. Valencia, Sanchez, Bailly, Rojo, Smalling.. let's see what the thinking is, and how Bailly performs.

We seem all to quick to forget the player who arrived.... he was superb, made us look a completely different team. Mourinho messed him up, badly, so let's just see how things go. I think he is going to be fantastic. I just hope he still wishes to remain.

You honestly haven't had enough of them?? Valencia can only back pass and jog while Rojo can burn toast in the treatment room and conjure red cards.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

I don't think we can classify defenders the way you have done. It's all about judgement and timing. If the defender feels he can rush up and the win the ball, then he will. If he feels he might not, he'll stay back and defend. If Bailly keeps rushing forward but can't win the ball, that means he has poor decision making. Most of the top defenders in the world can play in a back 3 and back 4. The ones who can only play in a back 3 imo are basically not good defenders.

For me defenders like chiellini & bonnuci get found out playing in a back 2 in comparison to a back 3.

Anyway - I can't be bothered - I don't like Bailly all that much to be backing him infinitely

 

[SteveW]

Bailly Rojo was the best CB partnership we had after Smalling Blind.


Bailly - Lindelof - Rojo

is Balanced enough to work; has a possible stable head between two rash defenders.

Jesus.

No.

Rojo needs to be moved on at the first opportunity.

Also we play with 2 CBs. No point in fecking up the formation just to try and get Rojo and Bailly into the team.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Jesus.

No.

Rojo needs to be moved on at the first opportunity.

Also we play with 2 CBs. No point in fecking up the formation just to try and get Rojo and Bailly into the team.

Agreed. Let’s not play an extra CB, because two of them on their own aren't good enough.

Rojo is a complete waste of space.

 

[luke511]

Under Mike Phelan's coaching he could become a very good centreback for us, definitely still a chance for him here. Mourinho did a terrible job at developing our high potential players, look how well Rashford, Pogba and Lindelof are playing now, Bailly could easily be the next one. That first season he was a great player, but Mourinho coached it out of him like he did with everyone else. He just needs his mental game sorting out, that can be done with the right guidance.

 

[Devil may care]

Bailly always had the rash streak in him but looked good when he started here, second season things fell to bits and he's barely been involved this season. I think at best he's competing with Lindelof for the 2nd CB spot, I don't see them as a partnership as they are both poor in the air.

 

[SteveW]

I've not been impressed by him but I echo the sentiments of those who want to give him time working under a more encouraging manager. If they can improve his heading, positioning and calm him down a bit he'd be'd be a superb defender. It's a lot to ask but who knows.

 

[Canagel]

I'm really looking forward to his resurgence. It's going to be glorious digging up some old posts.

 

[Bola]

Concerning that he didn't come on for the last few mins yesterday instead of Darmian, but he should get a chance against Burnley in a week and a half.

If he could recapture the early firm he had for us, then that would be great. He also needs to prove his injury record is just a blip as we cannot accent another Jones and Rojo.

He still has to the end of the season in my opinion and he needs to seize his chances to impress

 

[Rafeeq RSA]

Someone mentioned he can be used at RB in another thread which got me thinking....
I can see him bombing down the wing and has good defensive ability for FB. What’s the cafs thoughts on him as a RB or is he lacking in any departments?

 

[RedIan]

In the news this morning arsenal have asked to take Eric on loan until the end of the season with a few to a permanent move in the summer. The request was rejected. Cheeky sods, its not like we are flush with centre halfs.
I suppose itys good to see that they rate him though.

 

[golden_blunder]

Someone mentioned he can be used at RB in another thread which got me thinking....
I can see him bombing down the wing and has good defensive ability for FB. What’s the cafs thoughts on him as a RB or is he lacking in any departments?

For 2 years I’ve been saying I’d like to see him get a few games there. Don’t know what his crossing is like though

 

[Loublaze]

I'm really looking forward to his resurgence. It's going to be glorious digging up some old posts.

I hope he starts against Arsenal

 

[Bwuk]

Praying if he plays against Arsenal he doesn’t do anything rash.

I really like Bailly, but unless he can establish himself by the summer he should be moved on. He’ll of had 3 seasons to do so by then, that’s our issue. We hold onto players for too long.

 

[RedCurry]

Praying if he plays against Arsenal he doesn’t do anything rash.

I really like Bailly, but unless he can establish himself by the summer he should be moved on. He’ll of had 3 seasons to do so by then, that’s our issue. We hold onto players for too long.

His rashness is a bit overstated IMO.

He has weaknesses, aka heading and clearances, but aggression is one of his strengths. I think he’ll be fine.

 

[Mr PG]

Mehh, I'd imagine many of these people were the same people writing off Martial and Pogba. I'm starting to just ignore them.

People said Rashford was average as well as lingard and Herrera when Lvg benched him people reasoned he must not be that good

I honestly believe he will excel in Ole’s system. Confronts attackers very deep doesn’t give them breathing space. He just happened to take Ole’s instructions too literally.

 

[Floyd]

I hope Bailly gets the nod tonight, I think we need him vs Auba. And that he plays so well he gets to keep his place.

The way Ole likes to set up the team with a high defensive line, a pacy CB is a big advantage. And Bailly is as fast as they come, he has shown himself to have absolutely no problem keeping up and then some with both Auba and Vardy.

Not to mention vs PSG he could be a real asset vs Neymar and Mbappe. He "just" needs to keep his cool, easier said than done though according to his history.​

 

[Adam-Utd]

Bailly did fantastic against Arsenal with Lindelof in the home match.

 

[meamth]

We came a long way, now we have an exclusive MUTV original documentary.

Is it any good?

 

[RedDevil@84]

We came a long way, now we have an exclusive MUTV original documentary.

Is it any good?

If you are talking about the quality of the documentary, I think it was average.
I mean I have seen the documentary on Valencia and Rojo on MUTV and I think it had much more substance.

Part of it is because Bailly's path to Manchester was not exactly full of happening stuff on the footballing side I guess.
He was spotted by the Espanyol youth system and was selected in 2011. But he was waiting for a permit till late 2012. And he made his reserve debut in 2013-14 season. But then he went to Ivory Coast to meet his parents and then a civil war started there and he was stuck there unable to come out for almost a year. He played in the 14-15 season and then Villareal picked him in 15-16. And within a year he was at Manchester for the 16-17 season.

So it was all pretty quick for Bailly. And the documentary doesn't have much interviews with anyone involved in his development. So they added parts of his Manchester performances, season by season to increase the length of documentary.

edit: It does give a feeling that if we are patient with him, he will be a very good defender. So I guess that purpose is served

 

[Mcking]

Bailly did fantastic against Arsenal with Lindelof in the home match.

When?

 

[lex talionis]

Bailly was fantastic first in his first season, so we know there's quality. But the pressure of playing for United got to him.

We might want to consider a season long loan in 19-20 as there's no doubt we're going to bring in a top level CB, Lindelof is on his game, we're going to keep one of Jones and Smalling, and it's likely we're going to keep one of Tuanzebe and Fosu-Mensah, if not both. If Bailly can regain his early United form with a smaller club like West Ham or Watford, bring him back. By then he'll still only be 25 with plenty of career ahead of him.

 

[Adam-Utd]

When?

I was wrong, we actually played 3 at the back but Bailly still played great.

 

[Andersonson]

Personally I dont think he's good enough. With the situation we're in I cant see us waiting for him either. We need better CB's now, not in two or three years. We need to get rid of the deadwood ( Jones, Bailly, Rojo ) and get in quality if we're suppoed to aim for a League title

 

[Canagel]

When?

Last home game vs Arsenal. It was actually back three of Bailly, Smalling and Rojo. He played really good .

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Really good tonight.

Didn't do anything mental and looked composed and calm.

 

[Bobski]

Solid tonight, more control in his game, less of the rash decision making that has held him back. With Lindelof coming on so strong and Smalling out this needs to be his moment when he re-establishes himself.

 

[11101]

Really good tonight.

Didn't do anything mental and looked composed and calm.

When he's not doing that he's our best defender. He has everything.

 

[Dennis Viollet]

Has been superb tonight

 

[Hugh Jass]

Very good tonight. very composed on the ball too.

Lindelof very good too.

 

[Aint gota Kalou]

Wasn't mental. Which was nice.