[MadDogg]

Not sure how is that “‘still better‘’. 3/10 or 2/10 is just equally bad, there is no such a thing called who’s better with that value of rating, You are either good or bad.

I asked you to name 2 to 3 good games from Jones last season and you couldn’t list them but only made unexplained statement “mostly decent in 18/19”.

Either good or bad? So I guess Rashford is as good as Messi then, and that Mata has been as bad for us as Bebe was? Sorry, but it's absolutely ridiculous to be so black and white. Also if you notice how I listed it, it was Jones being 7/10 in the season Bailly was 4/10, then Jones 5/10 in the season Bailly was 2/10. Those are quite significant differences. Yes, Jones so far this season has been quite poor indeed, but that's 6 months out of the last 30. Bailly has been that bad (or unavailable because of injury) for pretty much the entire 30 months.

As for listing games, I have a shit memory for individual games like that. I'm having to take your word for it that Bailly was good against Chelsea because I can't remember it myself. One-off individual games are also a terrible way to rate players overall performances. What I am good at though is remembering overall trends so it's quite obvious that Bailly has been significantly worse than Jones (both in performances and being fit to play) for the last two and a half seasons.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Either good or bad? So I guess Rashford is as good as Messi then, and that Mata has been as bad for us as Bebe was? Sorry, but it's absolutely ridiculous to be so black and white. Also if you notice how I listed it, it was Jones being 7/10 in the season Bailly was 4/10, then Jones 5/10 in the season Bailly was 2/10. Those are quite significant differences. Yes, Jones so far this season has been quite poor indeed, but that's 6 months out of the last 30. Bailly has been that bad (or unavailable because of injury) for pretty much the entire 30 months.

As for listing games, I have a shit memory for individual games like that. I'm having to take your word for it that Bailly was good against Chelsea because I can't remember it myself. One-off individual games are also a terrible way to rate players overall performances. What I am good at though is remembering overall trends so it's quite obvious that Bailly has been significantly worse than Jones (both in performances and being fit to play) for the last two and a half seasons.

When I said you are either good or bad, I was clearly specifically referring to the value of rating you provided which 2 or 3 rating out of 10. That’s either good or bad. There is no such a thing called being better or worse with that number.

You are missing the point, the point of me asking for list of game here is not to judge player performance in overall, but to back up your statement that he had decent season. If you can’t even list me more than one good game of Jones last season while I could name you one for Bailly, then how is the player considered to be better or decent last season? You get it?

 

[MadDogg]

When I said you are either good or bad, I was clearly specifically referring to the value of rating you provided which 2 or 3 rating out of 10. That’s either good or bad. There is no such a thing called being better or worse with that number.

You are missing the point, the point of me asking for list of game here is not to judge player performance in overall, but to back up your statement that he had decent season. If you can’t even list me more than one good game of Jones last season while I could name you one for Bailly, then how is the player considered to be better or decent last season? You get it?

You seem to be forgetting that Bailly also had a number of incredibly bad matches where he was so bad that he got instantly dropped by both Mourinho and later Ole. It doesn't matter if he had a good match against Chelsea (plus one or two other ones) if for every good match he has he also has two absolute shockers. That's why individual matches mean nothing when talking about who was better over the course of a season or two as a whole. The important thing is the average.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You seem to be forgetting that Bailly also had a number of incredibly bad matches where he was so bad that he got instantly dropped by both Mourinho and later Ole. It doesn't matter if he had a good match against Chelsea (plus one or two other ones) if for every good match he has he also has two absolute shockers. That's why individual matches mean nothing when talking about who was better over the course of a season or two as a whole.

You seem to be ignoring everything what I just said. What about you re-read our whole conversation again and tell me what are you arguing here?

My statement was both Bailly & Jones are equally bad and had bad season last season, I said this simply because I couldn’t remember any good thing they did last season. However, you made a ridiculous statement by saying Jones is better or even had decent one last season, I asked you to backup your statement by list me or remind me what good games he had to make you said such a thing and you didn’t deliver.

If Jones really has decent season last season as what you said, surely there is some good game he had last season, you can at least give me 2-3 matches to backup your statement as example. This is the point I’m asking.

 

[MadDogg]

You seem to be ignoring everything what I just said. What about you re-read our whole conversation again and tell me what are you arguing here?

My statement was both Bailly & Jones are equally bad and had bad season last season, I said this simply because I couldn’t remember any good thing they did last season. However, you made a ridiculous statement by saying Jones is better or even had decent one last season, I asked you to backup your statement by list me or remind me what good games he had to make you said such a thing and you didn’t deliver.

If Jones really has decent season last season as what you said, surely there is some good game he had last season, you can at least give me 2-3 matches to backup your statement as example. This is the point I’m asking.

And as I said, I don't remember individual games. Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you who had a good match two weeks ago, or even who played and who the opposition was.

It's not ridiculous to say that Jones was less bad than Bailly last season, which is basically what my point has been. Considering both of our managers quite obviously agreed and quickly dropped Bailly to the absolute bottom of the pecking order, I would suggest that it's much more ridiculous to say otherwise.

We're going around and around in circles so I'm just going to leave it there.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

And as I said, I don't remember individual games. Off the top of my head I couldn't tell you who had a good match two weeks ago, or even who played and who the opposition was.

It's not ridiculous to say that Jones was less bad than Bailly last season, which is basically what my point has been. Considering both of our managers quite obviously agreed and quickly dropped Bailly to the absolute bottom of the pecking order, I would suggest that it's much more ridiculous to say otherwise.

We're going around and around in circles so I'm just going to leave it there.

Our manager dropped Jones in the Chelsea game for Bailly, don’t act like Jones wasn’t dropped by Ole last season. At the end of the day they both had bad season. To even call Jones had decent season last season, what was Young last season then, fantastic season? You see why I call your statement as ridiculous.

We are going to circle because you have nothing to backup your statement, I asked for it and you couldn’t give me even something. It’s basic in the discussion or argument.

 

[jackal&hyde]

Probably has until the end of the season to earn a contract extension. I still think he is a talented defender but had terrible luck with injuries. Jones out the door before him.

 

[Adnan]

Tweet

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[sun_tzu]

Tweet

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at least he cant walk out on a free i suppose
seems a long time since he looked like a good buy

 

[Based Adnan]

2 year extension triggered, not a new contract

 

[tjb]

He's still young. People forget that. He has a lot of good things about his game. Far more physically capable than Lindelof. He does seem to perform at a lower level when he has not received game time, but at his best, he can produce good things. I would still rather give Tuanzebe a chance, but Bailly is still young enough to push himself as a starting level/top player. My concern with him has to do with injuries. His game is a bit reckless and he is not the best header of the ball. In the premier league, due to have fast the game moves and the directness in which a lot of the lower teams play with, you have to have centre backs which are good at heading the ball, moreso than in any other league. This is the one hinderance that he needs to prove to me he can fix aside from his injuries, as lindelof does not seem to have the physical attributes to ever have a strong aerial presence. Bailly on the other hand struggles more with the anticipation of the ball as opposed to not having the physical skills. That can come with experience

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

at least he cant walk out on a free i suppose
seems a long time since he looked like a good buy

alternatively we are burdened with a player who has shown nothing in 2.5 years, and are committing to paying him for another 2.

I would have cut him loose at the end of this season.

 

[André Dominguez]

Geez... almost forgot this guy existed if it wasn't for the thread bump.

 

[Bebestation]

Didn't rate him but excited to see what Ole can do with him & maguire - possibly take Lindelof's position for a couple games.

 

[Mickson]

alternatively we are burdened with a player who has shown nothing in 2.5 years, and are committing to paying him for another 2.

I would have cut him loose at the end of this season.

No, I still think his value is quite high. Right decision to extend his contract so he doesn't leave for free. I don't rate him though, but don't think we will have any problems selling him.

 

[RedTiger]

at least he cant walk out on a free i suppose
seems a long time since he looked like a good buy

Seems a long time since he could walk tbf

 

[el3mel]

Probably did this just to be able to sell him in summer.

Shame, few days ago I was watching a video for his earlier days and remembered how good he actually was. Looked a very aggressive defender who tries to get every ball, exactly what we needed.

Injuries destroyed him unfortunately.

 

[TsuWave]

alternatively we are burdened with a player who has shown nothing in 2.5 years, and are committing to paying him for another 2.

I would have cut him loose at the end of this season.

And i’m sure this is one of many fortunate reasons as to why you don’t run Manchester United Football Club.

I’s understandable not being happy with his output but considering we spent like £30M IIRC, activating this clause to potentially recoup some of it and not letting him walk out on a free is the sensible thing to do.

 

[11101]

Probably just to protect his value. A 25 he has a little more time to recover some of the early potential, but dodgy knees are the worst things to deal with for a footballer. Can't see it happening for him here.

 

[joedirt87]

Probably did this just to be able to sell him in summer.

Shame, few days ago I was watching a video for his earlier days and remembered how good he actually was. Looked a very aggressive defender who tries to get every ball, exactly what we needed.

Injuries destroyed him unfortunately.

I don't know the numbers, and I get wanting to recoup some of the money spent for the player, but i think these extensions are ludicrous. Why are they keeping dead weight around. His value can't be worth anything based on form and injuries. He needs to be bubble wrapped if they club wants any chance of keeping him fit long enough to sell. We did this with Jones, with Darmian. Did giving Darmain an extension benefit the the club in any way. Just get rid of these of guys, let them go on free and be done with it.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

And i’m sure this is one of many fortunate reasons as to why you don’t run Manchester United Football Club.

I’s understandable not being happy with his output but considering we spent like £30M IIRC, activating this clause to potentially recoup some of it and not letting him walk out on a free is the sensible thing to do.

70 ish games in 3.5 years. I would agree about getting a fee for him, but can’t see it happening.

I just cannot fathom anyone buying him for any sort of fee given how poor he’s been bar his first couple of months, which is now three years ago,

in addition, given his injuries why would anyone give him a contract. It’s another Rojo situation - we extended his contract to protect the asset and get a fee, yet all we do is pay him to be injured with very little chance of being able to get rid of him.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

I don't know the numbers, and I get wanting to recoup some of the money spent for the player, but i think these extensions are ludicrous. Why are they keeping dead weight around. His value can't be worth anything based on form and injuries. He needs to be bubble wrapped if they club wants any chance of keeping him fit long enough to sell. We did this with Jones, with Darmian. Did giving Darmain an extension benefit the the club in any way. Just get rid of these of guys, let them go on free and be done with it.

exactly. We got a fee for Darmian, but would have paid him much more is wages over that time - for what level of output? Pointless.

should have got rid.

 

[redpatron]

exactly. We got a fee for Darmian, but would have paid him much more is wages over that time - for what level of output? Pointless.

should have got rid.

the same reason why people are crying and moaning about Ashley Young leaving, we were thin at fullback and Darmian was simply cover. Bailly is cover for 4/5 spot, we are not getting a better cb unless we are dropping 30-40m and convincing them to be a 5th choice.

 

[ur2cdanger]

The way I see it, this gives enough time to Baily to prove he can take his place in the 4 CBs that Ole wants to keep. Lindelof, Maguire and Axel take the 3 spots. It will be basically between Jones and Baily to fight it out for the 4th CB. One of these two is getting shipped off in the summer or next winter at the latest. A big advantage for Baily is that he is an aggressive defender. While Lindelof and Maguire form a decent partnership, both of them would be much better if paired with an aggressive defender while they can sweep off the second balls. Eventually I would like to see Axel-Maguire 1st choice and Lindelof-Baily second choice CBs, at least, until the other areas of the team are fixed and strengthened.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

the same reason why people are crying and moaning about Ashley Young leaving, we were thin at fullback and Darmian was simply cover. Bailly is cover for 4/5 spot, we are not getting a better cb unless we are dropping 30-40m and convincing them to be a 5th choice.

i believe this is where a well run club would simply use their large academy to find youngsters to give a shot to at this point if we are talking 5th CB (if that is even where bailly would be next season). Dude makes phil jones look like an ironman or something.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

And i’m sure this is one of many fortunate reasons as to why you don’t run Manchester United Football Club.

I’s understandable not being happy with his output but considering we spent like £30M IIRC, activating this clause to potentially recoup some of it and not letting him walk out on a free is the sensible thing to do.

The transfer fee is a sunk cost. It shouldn't play a part in any forward-looking decision making. Who's going to buy him from us anyway?

 

[::sonny::]

Don't see him playing football at the age of 30
Will retire before

 

[joedirt87]

the same reason why people are crying and moaning about Ashley Young leaving, we were thin at fullback and Darmian was simply cover. Bailly is cover for 4/5 spot, we are not getting a better cb unless we are dropping 30-40m and convincing them to be a 5th choice.

all our depth on the back line is made of glass. You can't have the backups who are there to rotate and play in case of injuries to starters always be injured. We need to cut the cord faster.

 

[MikeKing]

The transfer fee is a sunk cost. It shouldn't play a part in any forward-looking decision making. Who's going to buy him from us anyway?

True. It's like we persist with Jones for years hoping to recoup the 16m we paid. Ed giving him a new contract when the market became inflated like "we're rich biach!".

It doesn't make sense. I guess the thing they are trying to avoid is the LVG route, of the things we did when buying a lot of players fast to replace our options that weren't good enough. Cleverley with Schneiderlin. Evans with Blind. Darmian with Rafael. Hardly upgrades but I think sometimes, you have to take a risk and do that. It is not like Rafael and Cleverley have become good enough or increased in value just because their replacements also sucked.

 

[izec]

Phil Jones 2.0. Cant stay fit for 2 games in a row these days. And then he fecks up in matches as well

 

[Stadjer]

Phil Jones 2.0. Cant stay fit for 2 games in a row these days. And then he fecks up in matches as well

Lets hope he hasnt lost all of his athletic ability like Phil Jones has...

 

[RedRonaldo]

Imagine playing Bailly and Jones in the CB, free goals to the opponents!

 

[FootyGirl88]

He was on the bench today, do we think he'll start against Burnley?

 

[A-man]

He was on the bench today, do we think he'll start against Burnley?

I doubt it as the Maguire/Lindelof were good last game against Burnley plus it seems too soon for Bailly. On the other hand Ole needs to rotate players. Both CBs have played more or less every match and looks tired.

 

[Nick7]

Can’t understand why people want him to start. Been awful or injured for years now.

 

[-Supreme-]

Has Bailey been fit under Ole?

He must be the only first team player that hasn't really been given a fair chance since Ole took over, I would love to see how he gets on when paired with Maguire as he has good qualities that will complement well as a CB pairing.

 

[pascell]

Has Bailey been fit under Ole?

He must be the only first team player that hasn't really been given a fair chance since Ole took over, I would love to see how he gets on when paired with Maguire as he has good qualities that will complement well as a CB pairing.

Yes, the game that comes to mind was PSG away last season, he got torn to shreds as we played him RB and he got hooked off. And of course he was fit during pre-season, when he did his injury.

 

[-Supreme-]

Yes, the game that comes to mind was PSG away last season, he got torn to shreds as we played him RB and he got hooked off. And of course he was fit during pre-season, when he did his injury.

Thanks. I'm sure he will be given plenty of chances if he stays fit for the remainder of the season, but the key is to play him with Maguire and not Jones

 

[limerickcitykid]

The key is to not play him at all as he's fecking shite.

 

[Brophs]

Based upon the past two or three years, there's almost been no reason to have faith that he can be a good player for us in any sort of consistent way. He's just another player taking up a shirt in a squad filled with them.