Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

[stevoc]

Correct.

There's still people defending some our post-Fergie ex-managers, despite the fact that they were all monumental failures. The only argument to be had is who was the "least worst" of the lot. And, that's up to personal preference. I genuinely believe the weird affiliation to managers will continue unabated, no matter how much further we fall.

It'll continue for a long time yet mate I agree, 26 years is a generation. Lot's of United fans knew nothing else but Fergie being manager and continual success, now the last 10 years have been shit. So basically they want Fergie back or the next best thing.

There's a case to be made that the clubs struggles post Fergie have been largely down to the Glazers/Woodward also searching for a new Fergie. Every manager has inherited SAF's power and control over transfers and the football operations instead of implementing a proper footballing structure. And if you go back even further that may have also been the case in the 70's and 80's when the club were searching for the next Busby. It's a bit of a scary thought that outside of the Busby and Fergie eras you have to go back to 1911 when we last won a title under a different manager, and even then we only won two titles pre Busby.

 

[Apokalips]

I’m not sure anything confounds me more than anyone in here saying “I like Ten Hag”. Genuinely the most unlikeable of any manager we’ve ever had here

Agreed, he does not have the charm or likability that any of the others (apart from Moyes had).

I really don't get when people say they "love" him because he just has 0 personality and comes across deluded and arrogant now that his performance is so abject.

 

[stevoc]

That's completely reasonable. I mean, that's the ideal way and I'd love it if it were to happen the way you say rather than what I'm saying. I just think we'll end up going round in circles again, so I'm all for the drastic action approach.

I echo @Skills post above.

This is another reason as to why I'm for keeping ten Hag. We need to keep him until there are no excuses left. Until the fan base can just admit that he himself was not good enough.

I couldn't do another month of this shit never mind another 2-3 years. I'd have to give up watching United in all honesty we've been that awful to watch.

 

[crossy1686]

It’s a load of shite. Even Jose if he’d come in straight after Moyes I think things would have gone different, purely due to the character of squad he'd have inherited.

Yep, I agree. I think that side would have taken to Jose and we would have just carried on winning.

 

[romufc]

Agreed, he does not have the charm or likability that any of the others (apart from Moyes had).

I really don't get when people say they "love" him because he just has 0 personality and comes across deluded and arrogant now that his performance is so abject.

Speaking personally, I would say I like a manager purely because he is a Manutd manager. Until it gets to a point where its hatred because he is rubbish.

It is also fan delusion, where you are hoping a manager turns it around and challenges and becomes successful.

Ten Hag started really well but over the last year he has pissed me off saying things like.. we play beautiful football and talking about cups. Talk about your league position and how often your team is embarassed/

 

[Apokalips]

Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Zidane, Enrique all would have failed huh? What's the point then? We might as well just fold the club if we're going to spend a billion for nothing.

The logic doesn't add up. We won trophies with poorer managers so the top guys would surely do better.

Also none of these people would say there's no point buying Rooney because Alan Smith failed would they? Why bother buying De Ligt when Lindelof and Maguire failed? Maybe we should have just kept De Gea forever too?

The logic doesn't add up and is never applied to other clubs either.

 

[crossy1686]

I’m not sure anything confounds me more than anyone in here saying “I like Ten Hag”. Genuinely the most unlikeable of any manager we’ve ever had here

People generally say this when a manager is hard on his players and says the 'right things'. Nothing quite sparks excitement like a millionaire authoritarian telling other millionaires they're not working hard enough to justify their salary.

 

[John XII]

It’s a load of shite. Even Jose if he’d come in straight after Moyes I think things would have gone different, purely due to the character of squad he'd have inherited.

Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Zidane, Enrique all would have failed huh? What's the point then? We might as well just fold the club if we're going to spend a billion for nothing.

I mentioned earlier that appointing Jose instead of Moyes was the only opportunity to keep the standards up. Guardiola had to have his Barcelona team in place before he went to City, in the unlikely event of him coming here you can be fairly sure he would've fecked off pretty sharply when he discovered what he was working with. Ancelotti? possibly. Zidane and Enrique, I don't think they'd have been successful but, even if you do, you have to ask why they haven't accepted a job here.

 

[stevoc]

Yet we all know that there's not a single manager on the planet who could have been successful over the last 10 years with the way the club has been run.

We haven't been successful precisely because of the way the club has allowed the managers to run the football side of things (the managers are just as culpable). And then compunding that by choosing wildly different style managers in succession and then allowing them to rip squads apart and build their own. Only for them to buy another load of mediocre shite at the cost of hundreds of millions.

Stability should come from the top of the club down, a clear vision and style, with players of the right profile signed to suit that style and then managers plugged in and out when needed. That's how proper clubs are run, you don't throw all your eggs in one basket and totally rely on one man to do it all for you while also managing the first team.

Only Fergie could do that because he was a genius, we've still been using the Fergie model. So it's no wonder lesser managers can't succeed under the same structure.

 

[crossy1686]

The logic doesn't add up. We won trophies with poorer managers so the top guys would surely do better.

Also none of these people would say there's no point buying Rooney because Alan Smith failed would they? Why bother buying De Ligt when Lindelof and Maguire failed? Maybe we should have just kept De Gea forever too?

The logic doesn't add up and is never applied to other clubs either.

Its total defeatism. People get like this whenever we need to sack a manager. They invested so much emotionally in wanting Ten Hag to work that now they're convinced there's absolutely nothing that can be done any more. It's either that or accept they're a shit judge of character and backed a shit manager, that level of reflection is too painful though.

 

[Judas]

Yep, I agree. I think that side would have taken to Jose and we would have just carried on winning.

I actually meant Fergie, but point still stands!

 

[romufc]

Its total defeatism. People get like this whenever we need to sack a manager. They invested so much emotionally in wanting Ten Hag to work that now they're convinced there's absolutely nothing that can be done any more. It's either that or accept they're a shit judge of character and backed a shit manager, that level of reflection is too painful though.

I am so surprised to see anyone back him after Sunday... No fan who supports the club and watches football can think that he is a manager worth backing. I mean he clearly cannot do the job and we need to sack him before the place gets toxic. Whenever a manager is fighting for his job after every 3rd game he needs to be sacked. Ten Hag has been living like this for a calendar year now. He blamed injuries last year, now he has nowhere to hide and it is showing. The fans will buy excuses but when it comes to an almost fully fit squad looking like sunday league team, it is an issue.

 

[John XII]

Its total defeatism. People get like this whenever we need to sack a manager. They invested so much emotionally in wanting Ten Hag to work that now they're convinced there's absolutely nothing that can be done any more. It's either that or accept they're a shit judge of character and backed a shit manager, that level of reflection is too painful though.

I wanted Conte over ten Hag, I've got no investment in him whatsoever.

 

[crossy1686]

I mentioned earlier that appointing Jose instead of Moyes was the only opportunity to keep the standards up. Guardiola had to have his Barcelona team in place before he went to City, in the unlikely event of him coming here you can be fairly sure he would've fecked off pretty sharply when he discovered what he was working with. Ancelotti? possibly. Zidane and Enrique, I don't think they'd have been successful but, even if you do, you have to ask why they haven't accepted a job here.

Pep did not need his entire Barcelona staff, he won the league at Bayern without them, he would have done the same at City or United because he's a good coach, and if you offered Pep a billion quid to spend he'd go nowhere. You're rewriting narratives because we haven't won the league since Fergie left, if we had won a league title everyone would have been saying we were doing something right. This club is 'rotten' stuff is absolute bollocks. We've won every trophy except the CL and PL since Fergie retired.

 

[crossy1686]

I wanted Conte over ten Hag, I've got no investment in him whatsoever.

Conte probably would have done a better job over the last 2 seasons to be fair, league wise anyway.

 

[John XII]

Pep did not need his entire Barcelona staff, he won the league at Bayern without them, he would have done the same at City or United because he's a good coach, and if you offered Pep a billion quid to spend he'd go nowhere. You're rewriting narratives because we haven't won the league since Fergie left, if we had won a league title everyone would have been saying we were doing something right. This club is 'rotten' stuff is absolute bollocks. We've won every trophy except the CL and PL since Fergie retired.

That's a bit revisionist. There's so many stories from managers, agents, reliable journalists criticising how the club has gone about its business for the last god knows how many years.

 

[crossy1686]

I am so surprised to see anyone back him after Sunday... No fan who supports the club and watches football can think that he is a manager worth backing. I mean he clearly cannot do the job and we need to sack him before the place gets toxic. Whenever a manager is fighting for his job after every 3rd game he needs to be sacked. Ten Hag has been living like this for a calendar year now. He blamed injuries last year, now he has nowhere to hide and it is showing. The fans will buy excuses but when it comes to an almost fully fit squad looking like sunday league team, it is an issue.

If you're at the point where you're saying he's got x amount of games to save his job, just sack him, he'd need a brain transplant in the mean time to turn things around. There just hasn't been any form of improvement throughout his tenure that suggests anything will improve over the next 100 games, let alone 2.

 

[Judas]

There’s more than a big enough sample size to make the judgement he’s done here and he’s peaked. It’s not unfair, it’s not knee jerk and it doesn’t make you a shite fan.

 

[crossy1686]

That's a bit revisionist. There's so many stories from managers, agents, reliable journalists criticising how the club has gone about its business for the last god knows how many years.

When it comes to signing players and squad building, yes there has. We've over paid, we've been naive, we've lost targets to rivals, all that is true, but we've still had the makings of a good squad at points, a top 4 squad at least and that's still true today. I keep hearing we need to clear the dead wood but there's practically 4 players around from when Jose was here, and those lads aren't exactly bad eggs and on social media/leaking news causing massive issues.

At the end of the day, the managers we've had in place either didn't have the experience or the ability to handle modern footballers and compete against the likes of Klopp and Pep.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Should be 4 W as it includes one Friendly defeat and not City cup final victory. But nevertheless sackable form

LVG got sacked after having 7 W in his last 10 games

 

[tomaldinho1]

I think in theory it could work really well, and if/when ETH gets the boot he's someone I'd love to see approached especially considering the lack of potential candidates.

If you compare the profile of Bournemouth's first 11 and ours you can see how it can be transferred. In midfield they cover so much ground and constantly snap at the heels of the opposition, often giving away small fouls to either break opposition momentum or a counter. We'd have Ugarte and Mainoo, Ugarte already plays a similar role for Uruguay with Bielsa and would be extremely efficient in that type of role. Plus we wouldn't need to worry about needing technical midfielders as Iraola's direct style focuses on getting the ball to the front four as quickly as possible so wouldn't get caught in midfield so often.

The attacking midfield three are all very pacey and direct, due to their direct style they're never far away from the forward and often run beyond him. Because of this, the forwards link-up play has to be very good but also often is the first man to press. I think we've got the players to play this way very effectively, I'd love to see Diallo off the right, Garnacho off the left and Bruno just off Zirkzee or Hojlund. Or maybe Zirkzee off Hojlund as Kluivert often plays that role for Bournemouth and plays very close to the striker, almost like a second striker which Zirkzee could play very well.

Midfield I agree to a point but Mainoo I’d personally like to see as an attacking 8 - I’m not sure about him in a pair.

Forwards I think we’ve overrated the pace of our forwards for ages. Garnacho is fast without being rapid but he is quick with the ball versus most players, Rashford has lost his dynamite acceleration, Amad and Antony aren’t really that fast. Hojlund maybe could play the Solanke type role but he’s quite slow to get up to speed. Top speed is relatively irrelevant in football, assuming most quick players will max out around 34/35km, it’s all about how quick you are the first few metres.

 

[TsuWave]

Pep, Klopp, Ancelotti, Zidane, Enrique all would have failed huh? What's the point then? We might as well just fold the club if we're going to spend a billion for nothing.

It’s a load of shite. Even Jose if he’d come in straight after Moyes I think things would have gone different, purely due to the character of squad he'd have inherited.

People have watched washed-up managers and managers with relatively not much experience at this level win european trophies, domestic cups and finish second in the league - and their conclusion is "no one would have succeeded here" It's comical. Mind that "2 trophies" was just recently used as justification to keep Ten Hag in place, just a few months ago.

 

[romufc]

If you're at the point where you're saying he's got x amount of games to save his job, just sack him, he'd need a brain transplant in the mean time to turn things around. There just hasn't been any form of improvement throughout his tenure that suggests anything will improve over the next 100 games, let alone 2.

That is my point, we have seen enough to suggest there will be no improvement. He got grace last season due to injuries and this season there is no way he stayed unless we went on a winning run of 7/8 games. winning 2 PL games and we are in October is beyond crap.

His record in the last 20 games is beyond relegation fodder and if he is not sacked by end of this week, I fear he will leave us in the relegation zone by christmas.

People might think that is an overreaction but we got lucky at Southampton and Palace was a draw where any team could have won in the end. We are yet to beat a PL team convincingly since Ole was the manager.

 

[spwd]

I still believe in Erik. This 24 hour media cycle is monstrous, and it loves feeding on United.

You honestly can't be fecking serious? Does he have to relegate us before you think he might not be it? We're in 13th for God's sake!

I do actually think he can be a success here, but it feels like he is dangerously close to losing the players. A lot of his players are still not up to full fitness or played together for a very long time. It's not a surprise our best players have played with each other before (Onana, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez). Defenders don't win you matches when you can't score though, so it's a bit moot. If we can't get the attack scoring and the midfield playing, he's a done for. One positive is that he leaves a very solid defensive base for a new manager to build on.

I don't believe that anyone with eyes can still possibly believe this. The only way that happens is if everyone we face forfeits the game before we kick a ball.
As for alot of his players not being up to speed. Why is this and why are our players different to everyone else's? Or why do they look like they've just met each other?

Fecking hell, you seriously got that from my post?

I thought your idea was very plausible because half the time they look like they don't know wether they're coming or going but I think it's just his tactics.

Before the press release before the game he told the media that his dream job was to be FC Twente Chairmen!

That’s the biggest red flag yet?

Thanks. What a weird little man.

 

[TsuWave]

Funny guy, and can’t really argue against it, to be fair

 

[USREDEVIL]

Probably tie porto and lose to villa. They will then sack him over the break and put rvn in charge. Unless we get Tuchel or Potter, unlikely , Rvn in charge till the summer. I have no idea how that will go.

Thats my guess anyways.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Funny guy, and can’t really argue against it, to be fair

Armie got jokes

 

[mythz]

I thought Glazers was bad. But the combination Ineos+Glazers are even worse.

 

[gormless]

The logic doesn't add up. We won trophies with poorer managers so the top guys would surely do better.

Also none of these people would say there's no point buying Rooney because Alan Smith failed would they? Why bother buying De Ligt when Lindelof and Maguire failed? Maybe we should have just kept De Gea forever too?

The logic doesn't add up and is never applied to other clubs either.

Agree completely. The asshole side of me however says we bought Rooney just a month after Smith and in the month Smith was here and Rooney wasn’t Smith was killing it.

 

[spwd]

honest question....how can he look in the mirror each morning and be satisfied with the path of the club right now?

Because he's not doing anything wrong. It's everyone else's fault.

 

[Lash]

I don't believe that anyone with eyes can still possibly believe this. The only way that happens is if everyone we face forfeits the game before we kick a ball.
As for alot of his players not being up to speed. Why is this and why are our players different to everyone else's? Or why do they look like they've just met each other?

It requires a lot of hope, but then it also requires a lot of hope that the next manager will be any more successful. I was for Tuchel in the summer and I'd still be up for him, but not sure he's even an option.

I can't tell you why Zirkzee is shit against the good teams, but good against the lesser teams, but I would infer it's down to adapting to the league. Ugarte the same and that's in part to do with only getting him at the end of the window. Mazraoui and De ligt haven't had that problem, mind you. I can't tell you why Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho are poor though.

 

[Bo_devil]

I think we as a fans should keep an eye on these two appointments. From the outset they look pretty laughable. One has been managing in the Championship and the other just got relegated from the Premier League.

However in this current era where it’s all about first team head coaches and football directors running things, as opposed to a manager, these guys look fairly competent albeit very early on. Whether they have the staying power is another thing but they’ve got their teams organised, playing coherently, scoring goals and winning games… so that whole ‘a manager needs money and time to put his stamp on things’ notion peddled in the past by the likes of Gary Neville is absolute bollocks. A few weeks and it can look much better.

And in the future, I think fans will need to get used to that approach. We’re no longer after managers. We’re after first team head coaches. There’s probably going to be names in there that when you first think of them, you would dismiss them but when you drill down further into what they do and coupled with a whole new power structure at United, it will start to make more sense.

And with that said new power structure, removing the head coach will be a whole lot fecking easier because we’re no longer chained to a single manager’s vision. We could appoint a guy and he does amazingly for 12 months then the shit hits the fan? Sack him off and move onto the next one until we find one that can win serious stuff for us.

Good points. Ive been open minded about this approach for a while. We don't need someone in who's 'won things' we need someone in who can get the players buying into his philosphy. Doesn't need to be a big name.
This approach has made sense to me for a while. We are too quick to turn our noses up at names like Potter, Rodgers, De zerbi etc. We just need someone in who can get these guys playing ball.

 

[spwd]

Personally think this is crybaby nonsense.

I’d rather be where we are currently instead of with the Glazers purely in control obviously, and I’m sure most would agree. Yes he should have been sacked in the summer, but the attitude towards sacking him was tragic after the FA cup, the noise was overwhelming to keep him, and INEOS clearly did look into getting rid anyway.

They were caught between a rock and a hard place if they’d binned him straight after even though business and footballing wise it was the clear decision, it’s obvious why it didn’t happen.

There's nothing crybaby about what I said. They screwed up before due to changing their minds after 1 game and they've screwed up again by not immediately kicking him out the door.
I'm pretty sure the second the players know he's gone there'll be a collective sigh of relief.

 

[CraftySoAndSo]

Midfield I agree to a point but Mainoo I’d personally like to see as an attacking 8 - I’m not sure about him in a pair.

Forwards I think we’ve overrated the pace of our forwards for ages. Garnacho is fast without being rapid but he is quick with the ball versus most players, Rashford has lost his dynamite acceleration, Amad and Antony aren’t really that fast. Hojlund maybe could play the Solanke type role but he’s quite slow to get up to speed. Top speed is relatively irrelevant in football, assuming most quick players will max out around 34/35km, it’s all about how quick you are the first few metres.

Yeah I think Mainoo would be best in a possession-based 3 man midfield, not to say he couldn't do the role we're talking about. For example Christie was a number 10/wide player before Iraola repositioned him in the midfield so it's not like he's playing two poor technical players in there. Plus he does have licence to go forward sometimes so I feel Mainoo could do that role quite well.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Agreed, he does not have the charm or likability that any of the others (apart from Moyes had).

I really don't get when people say they "love" him because he just has 0 personality and comes across deluded and arrogant now that his performance is so abject.

Yeah I mean I understand “loving” how some of his Ajax teams played. But that’s about it, his football since coming here has been hilariously table, he’s unlikeable and arrogant as feck with the press, and in general doesn’t inspire at all to the point where I could see anyone “loving” him

 

[Shark]

It requires a lot of hope, but then it also requires a lot of hope that the next manager will be any more successful. I was for Tuchel in the summer and I'd still be up for him, but not sure he's even an option.

I can't tell you why Zirkzee is shit against the good teams, but good against the lesser teams, but I would infer it's down to adapting to the league. Ugarte the same and that's in part to do with only getting him at the end of the window. Mazraoui and De ligt haven't had that problem, mind you. I can't tell you why Bruno, Rashford and Garnacho are poor though.

This kind of goes back to the question, do you think the club should just give up hiring new managers? If there's no hope anyone else will be better, what's the point. Let ETH continue on for the next ten years.

 

[Judas]

There's nothing crybaby about what I said. They screwed up before due to changing their minds after 1 game and they've screwed up again by not immediately kicking him out the door.
I'm pretty sure the second the players know he's gone there'll be a collective sigh of relief.

Calling them worst dithers is crybaby nonsense. I’d much rather be where we are in terms of the current structure than the Glazers shit show.

 

[croadyman]

The media are definitely scrambling as the news since Sunday has been tepid speculation. I'm personally disappointed that he didn't get the boot yesterday.

Yeah I was very disappointed, despite Jackson describing atmosphere as calm they will be thinking how is he still here after Sunday

 

[Lash]

This kind of goes back to the question, do you think the club should just give up hiring new managers? If there's no hope anyone else will be better, what's the point. Let ETH continue on for the next ten years.

I mean you just have to read my next sentence to know I don't think that? It doesn't have to be binary, I can think Ten Hag can still be a success and think someone else can be as well. I think Tuchel would at least structure us better and has a bit of pedigree. Not sure he's a particularly long term choice though, if we were to gamble on someone, I would like Iraola. There is absolutely no guarantee on him being any better than Ten Hag though and it's a huge step up.

 

[spwd]

Calling them worst dithers is crybaby nonsense. I’d much rather be where we are in terms of the current structure than the Glazers shit show.

It can't be crybaby nonsense if it's true. I agree I'd sooner have both here than just the Glazers but that doesn't mean the new structure isn't dithering. It's happening right in front of your eyes!