The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
Yes. Unfortunately, we all keep being drawn in haha.I’ve already made the argument that I think Ten Hag is so poor that there is quite a good number of managers who would be an improvement. I’ve already listed some of those along with references to why their records are better, and why they’d likely get us playing better football and performing better as a team. The Hilton ignores all that whilst asking for names, despite this thread being full of names and full of arguments. It’s dishonest and it’s disingenuous but ultimately, it’s nothing more than a distraction tactic.
He deserves more than 3 games under the new regime.
If we were Everton or West Ham or Newcastle or, hell, even the Spurs, maybe you have an argument. But we’re not. We are one of a handful of clubs that should be challenging every year for major trophies.The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
At 4:05 he says they lost their nerve, at 4:56 he pivots to a completely different logic, jumping on Neville saying they were looking to prove his point. It doesn’t, not even remotely.
That’s not backing anything up fine, it’s classic Carragher and people swallowing that need to be a bit smarter
I actually think Charrager is the one being obtuse. When you run a football club you can't just sack for the sake of sacking and it needs to be more measured. They didn't really find anyone who they felt would be a worthwhile improvement and saw better value in backing the manager.Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
They have just had their first proper window and by their own account have admitted they could not find a better manager. They're not about to just sack him after three games, this is not realistic and you know it.No he doesn't. They've been here since January and tried to replace him in the summer. That's what your 'new regime' think of him.
Also, tell me you don't understand what the new structure does without actually saying it.
He has delivered two trophies which remain the barometer of success no matter what stat bros will tell you. No one will remember XG in 10 years. It was commonly agreed upon that last season we were marred by unprecedented injuries and the squad was still in dire need of investment. He now has had investment and has been given a lot of players. He deserves more than a measly three games to see what he can put together.Why does he 'deserve' it?
We got rid of far better managers who were far more deserving of working under a better structure.
If things continue on a downward spiral he will obviously be sacked at some point and it would be right to do so, but not now, not after three games. We haven't even integrated the new signings yet. Not to mention 2 of the first 3 games were very difficult games, Brighton will take points from a lot of big teams this season and we have struggled their for years now, Liverpool is always a 50/50 and we won the other one.Absolutely not, he was lucky to have lasted the summer and if anything that fact that it’s a new season and the owners would look stupid is the only reason he hasn’t been sacked after these 3 results.
He will be sacked by Christmas, I think we have all seen enough to know this is not going to improve.
So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?Ye but we’ve slightly changed systems and tactics this year. Slots the first one to call us out on it. We press a lot higher with the front 2 this year.
Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
The irony of those two Cup trophies is that they are working as Harakiri on Manchester United as a football club. Since he took over we've fallen from being one of the 4 best teams in the country to maybe even outside the top 10 best, despite getting both the time and financial backing along the way. I get physically sick from watching us play football these days. It's simply been a disasterclass and I'd gladly give both those cup trophies away for us to play better football. Those cups doesn't even remotely paper the cracks in his failure at managing this football club the last 18 months. Every day he's still at this club, we're getting further away from where we want to be. We're watching ETH making our club implode. I just can't grasp how he's still in this job.The problem with this argument is that since Ten Hag has been in charge, Ten Hag has been the 2nd most successful manager in England in terms of trophies won. I.e., doing impressive things is not good enough for Manchester United. We’re not going to win the league or the CL by being harder to beat.
Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
So basically, he's the first of potentially many who will put the boot in on version 2.0?
We've really become a laughing stock for opposing fans and managers.
Carragher suggests he has 'seen this at Liverpool' then evokes Klopp replacing Rodgers.Neville misses his point.
Carraghers point - the fact that they were openly looking for another manager shows that they are not convinced by him.
Fair point which Neville doesn’t acknowledge.
Neville’s point that they looked around but the market was bereft of good options is also fair, but they are 2 different points
What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
I think actually the point is INEOS only go looking if they don't think ETH is the man for the job, the fact that they didn't manage to find a replacement that fit their profile doesn't alter that.I actually think Charrager is the one being obtuse. When you run a football club you can't just sack for the sake of sacking and it needs to be more measured. They didn't really find anyone who they felt would be a worthwhile improvement and saw better value in backing the manager.
Nevilles point if I'm not mistaken is that decision would need conviction now by giving him time, until Christmas or so rather than just the first few games of the season.
Nevilles point is not and was never "ten hag is the right man for these guys". It was more "the right man doesn't look like he's in the open market so they've decided to roll with what they have first".
Well, he showed promising performances before, so it was justified to want him at United. I also was looking forward to that. Probably not on the "next Pep/Klopp" bandwagon, but still.What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
Why wait? We're already 6 points behind the top and 4 points behind the top 5. Have you seen any signs of improvement from last season in his approach to the games or anything that suggests that he is on to something? It looks like we're not even remotely prepared for the games we play.I'll give him until the next international break.
Then we should ring up Tuchel and tell him to cut his sabbatical short, break time is over.
Surely we're past the point of being fussy though? It feels like we're sticking by him out of blind hope at this stage as all results for the past 18 months point to another mediocre league season. We're sleep walking our way to another shite season.
Honestly, I think the majority of the Managers in the PL would be able to match a 50% win rate from 77 games. I think people put too much emphasis on the difficulty of managing United. Hiring someone that's actually capable would be a good start and if they show themselves not to be capable get rid ruthlessly.
This notion that we have to find the next Sir Alex is frustrating. If it happens, it'll happen naturally, I.E The Manager we employ is successful and with success brings longevity. Until then, we need to employ Managers that play modern enjoyable football. If results don't meet our aspirations then we sack and try again. We certainly don't continue betting on a dead fish.
I know some will say that ETH has been successful. Domestic cups are a bonus reward, they shouldn't be the only shining beacon in a shit storm of a season. We are not a cup only team. The league should always be out aspirations and sacrificing league position to attempt to win a trophy is to me counter productive. Get us challenging for the title then we can talk domestic cups.
And most of this is fine, but Nevilles view that hel likely get till Christmas isn't any less true. Charrager jumped on him because he wanted to stoke fire and purposely be obtuse.I think actually the point is INEOS only go looking if they don't think ETH is the man for the job, the fact that they didn't manage to find a replacement that fit their profile doesn't alter that.
We know that INEOS spoke to at least McKenna and Tuchel, we do not know why they were not progressed, it may be nothing to do with the footballing side.
The fact that INEOS went looking is the be all and end all in this, it doesn't mean that they think ETH is right for the job in any way shape or form, keeping him was a means to an end.
You can pretty much guarantee 2 things:
In no way shape or form do INEOS' actions mean they have any confidence in ETH
- One reason that RVN was brought in is to potentially act as caretaker
- ETH would be gone tomorrow if the right profile manager became available
For my own sanity, I am trying to disconnect from last season. Failing, but trying!It's not even version 2.0, we aren't pressing higher and we are as bad at it as we were last season. Last season the pressing line was at the edge of the opposing box.
Carragher suggests he has 'seen this at Liverpool' then evokes Klopp replacing Rodgers.
Of course, there is no Klopp on offer to us now.
Carragher does better in the argument but evades key talking points, is disingenuous regarding Liverpool and, crucially, cannot name a successor.
All too typical.
Exactly my point. They were both valid but they spent 20 minutes shouting over each otherI think that they both have a point.
I made a similar point to the one Neville makes, there was a case to keep ETH if for some reason they weren't sold on anyone else. And Carragher also has a point because when you reach a stage where you are actively interviewing prospective managers then two things are true, you have no faith in your current manager and you actually identified alternatives that suits you on paper.
The issue is then about things that no one outside of the club and the candidates will know. What introduced doubts about the candidates and are these things reasonable?
Klopp? I hope that the team go to meet and talk with him at some point over the next few months, we’d be remiss not toCarragher suggests he has 'seen this at Liverpool' then evokes Klopp replacing Rodgers.
Of course, there is no Klopp on offer to us now.
Carragher does better in the argument but evades key talking points, is disingenuous regarding Liverpool and, crucially, cannot name a successor.
All too typical.
Football fan opinion changes like the windWhat I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
Unfortunately we are not psychic. There was hope. It's now very much gone.What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
The bit in bold may be true, but it isn't enough by itself. Rangnick met the same criteria, but nobody in the dressing room would listen to him beyond a single half against Palace. We've had similar experiences under Moyes, Van Gaal, and Mourinho. There's a very good chance that the lesser lights in your list like McKenna or Frank would be completely ignored. There's so much pressure at United, it's crushed managerial legends, most talented but less established managers wouldn't stand a chance.
In terms of the candidates you listed that are more promising - Nagelsmann, Emery, Amorim - how exactly would we go about getting them immediately? I think it's especially naïve to expect Emery to bail out on Villa in the Champions League where he has a huge amount of credit built up, to join us in a comparatively worse situation. Amorim is also in the Champions League. I think with both of them the amount of money it would cost to get them on board at this time would be too much to fit with the INEOS approach to not get ripped off. We refused to be held to ransom for Ashworth, choosing to go without instead, so I expect we'd rather wait to get the right manager in than go back to being shaken down.
Still, it all comes down to what the INEOS team think is the best way forward. I'm happy to trust them to make the good, well informed decisions, we'll have to see what happens.
Klopp? I hope that the team go to meet and talk with him at some point over the next few months, we’d be remiss not to
For my own sanity, I am trying to disconnect from last season. Failing, but trying!
Absolutely. One can only wonder what it would have been if we hired him Outta Dortmund years back.Klopp? I hope that the team go to meet and talk with him at some point over the next few months, we’d be remiss not to
Did we? I don't think so, at least under Ole we scored more goals and we had some good periods. We played more conservative football but that was to our strength. I certainly don't think we're playing more attacking football now. We're pressing higher but that doesn't translate in anything other than tennis matches.We played a more defensive brand of football under Mourinho & Ole, and look where that got us. And yes, the scatter gun approach to buying players which we’ve seen for the past decade has resulted in a squad not fit for a big club like Manchester United. That’s not exempting Ten Hag from criticism, but describing the reality that any manager at the club will have to deal with.
I was very positive to him when he was hired. I really believed and hoped it would be a good choice and match. Now, two and a half years later, when we have seen him in action here over time, it's ok to change your opinion on that. Clearly out of his deapth and not the right man for the job. We will get manager appointments wrong in the future as well, even though they look good on paper. Happens all the time.What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
I was less so than others but either way the decision was clearly wrong so move on.What I find funny is 90% of the forum was on the ETH bandwagon before he got here. And vehemently so, treated him like the next Pep/Klopp.
Ye but we’ve slightly changed systems and tactics this year. Slots the first one to call us out on it. We press a lot higher with the front 2 this year.
