And the issue is that what you are talking about isn't what the rest of us were talking about. But even if we were I don't know a single club that doesn't consider the financial implications of transfer dealings, even oil clubs think about it carefully.
Erik ten Hag - Ajax Manager
- Thread starter Panther
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Then explain United giving out new contracts to players who don’t kick a ball or have no playing future at the club?
Incompetence.
If he does eventually end up here, having his work cut out for him is putting it very lightly
And these incompetent people is who we think should overule the person they are hiring to implement a completely new style of football at the club?
If we were already a club with a set style and had football people who had successfully implemented said style at the club, then ok. But we are not
I hope to god he isn’t watching the game today… he’ll change his mind in a second. Who on earth would want to come to this squad with this awful team. He’d end up ruining his reputation. Halve of that squad is not coachable. There league 1 standard.
Great question. I don't trust them at all
We changed the structure of the club, it's not the same people taking those decisions. And for what it's worth Lingard was valued by both Mourinho and Ole when he got his extensions.
Also if you don't trust the likes of Murtough and Fletcher why would you trust the man they chose?
The structure has changed but does it include anybody who has worked or built a squad of the style of football Ten Hag plays? The answer is no therefore he is going to know a lot more than them about the types of players needed. If Rangnick stays on then that helps as he is the only one with that experience
For what its worth Lingard was not the only example.
ETH will have a major say in who comes and goes, obviously. He just won't have full veto. What is your point exactly? You think we should give him 100% control? No club does that.
That point has been addressed numerous times, ten Hag didn't rely on a particular type of player at Ajax, he hasn't done at Ajax what he did before. Ten Hag at Ajax and Rangnick don't play the same type of Football.
Your point could make sense if ten Hag was in charge of bringing players at Ajax or if Ajax brought a particular type of player but neither of these things are true.
He will be fully aware of how shite we are, I don't think we need to worry about it being a surprise.
In Murtough and Fletcher we trust! This includes everyone else within the new structure who has been part of the failed regime but in different roles and levels of decision making
My point clearly was the club should not decide not to get rid of a player that Ten Hag wants gone just because of ‘fincancial implications’ it will be a recipe for disaster.
Notice I have always only been speaking about player to get rid of. He is going to need to be able to create the dressing room he wants and he can’t be forced to work with players he wants out from this current squad. If he wants them gone then we must do it period do not care who it is.
Clearly he cannot have full control over transfers. But it is imperative he has full say on who stays from this current squad in my opinion.
Im not talking about bringing players in. Im talking about getting rid of players who do not fit with where he needs to take us
Just imagine what ten hag might be thinking if he's watching this live ?
This makes no sense. If you are not talking about bringing players than what was your point about experience in building a squad? Ten Hag will simply use the players that he wants, the way he wants it, it has nothing to do with selling players or building a squad.
Yeah I agree with this but there is nuance to every situation and practicalities to consider.
First we need to find a buyer, and nobody wants our overpaid flops.
What would you do if ETH wants to sell Maguire/Rashford/Martial and nobody wants to buy them because the wages are ridiculous? Give them away for free and pay out their contracts?
Experience in working with players who play the style. That is why he would be the most important person to dertermine who is useful out of the current squad. In terms of the building he needs to be listened to building the squad involves also deciding who needs to go and the type of player who is needed in replacemnt.
Ten Hag will simply use the players he wants… this line is everything that has been wrong with the club. Yes he will and if they are not suitable we will ultimately fail.The dressing room will have issue if players who have no chance of playing are kept around, it also means the competition for places would not be there (exactly what we have been seeing)
What did we do with Sanchez and why?
It also doesnt need to all be done in one window but if they are not the right profile of player then they need to go. If the club are not competent enough to sell them then they should be let go or loaned out.
Next time do not hand out contacts that are not in line for the market of said players. The answer is certainly not to renew said players contract on even higher or same wages and tell the manager tough
I have
Who are those? Look at Ajax players, they are not archetypes of any style and every seasons Ajax have brought players that are extremely different from their predecessors, it's actually the one thing that makes ten Hag particularly interesting he hasn't relied on a type of player, he adapts his organization to the player he has which is why Ajax have played anything from something that looks likes Heynckes Bayern to Guardiola's Barcelona.
He isn't as dogmatic as you seem to think and again I could understand your point if it matched with what we witnessed at Ajax but it's not the case.
Please come in and have the power to drop/sell anybody you like.
I didn't see the edit, sorry.
You understand if we release a player we have to pay out their entire contract right?
You understand I said loan the player if they cannot be sold. I doubt for the players you mentioned it would come to that. Releasing the player is the last resort.
Keeping an asset on your books that you cannot sell and you have no use for….You understand you end up paying out their entire contract right?
You also understand you cannot rebuild until said players are moved on (even if on loan) because they will cause disruption and they take a place in the squad
I hope you realise this is partly why we are where we are now
He should run a mile.
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We're talking about high value assets here, not Phil Jones and Mata.
There has to be room for compromise and discussion in both directions. If ETH wanted rid of Rashford and we can't find a taker (loan or buy), it would be ridiculous to release him. The sensible thing to do is ask the manager to continue working with the player and try to regain his form and confidence. Until which point a buyer can be found or the player turns things around.
The DoF and manager need to have a healthy working relationship to deal with issues like this. No manager gets everything he wants and they have to adapt and handle problems. Having a situation where the manager has full veto is not a good way to run a football club.
He doesn’t stand a chance, I don’t think any manager does. There’s no way club will allow anyone to come in and do what needs to be done.
He has his work cut out
If he wants rid of Rashford we should be competent enough to sell him. If we can’t then that tells you all you need to know about the players ‘value’
I’ll reiterate again. This isn’t something that has to happen in one summer
Sooner we announce him the better
Yes of course. But that isn't the question. The question is;
ETH wants rid, we can't get rid. What do you do?
It's a hypothetical to illustrate a point (absolute power is bad) not something you can bend to your will.
I just hope he (whoever our next manager is) has balls.
If he for example doesn't want Bruno/Ronaldo/Pogba etc then we do what they say and get rid.
I'm sick of this shit. Keeping players based on name and reputation instead of what they bring and how they fit into a team.
One of the first things Pep did when he got the Barca job was get rid of Deco and Ronaldinho because they didn't fit how he wanted to play.
We need a manager with the balls to do that and a board to listen and support what they say.
I don't want someone who will come in and try to do what previous managers have tried using the same players and the same system.
We need shaking up.
If he for example doesn't want Bruno/Ronaldo/Pogba etc then we do what they say and get rid.
I'm sick of this shit. Keeping players based on name and reputation instead of what they bring and how they fit into a team.
One of the first things Pep did when he got the Barca job was get rid of Deco and Ronaldinho because they didn't fit how he wanted to play.
We need a manager with the balls to do that and a board to listen and support what they say.
I don't want someone who will come in and try to do what previous managers have tried using the same players and the same system.
We need shaking up.
Fans used to say individual brilliance masked our real performances under Ole but does this prove that you have to coach that brilliance out of them?
We are genuinely the worst side in the league at the minute and I don’t see any star turns from anybody.
We are genuinely the worst side in the league at the minute and I don’t see any star turns from anybody.
Get rid (again does not have to be in one summer)
Point being you have a plan to get the player gone, whether that's in a year or 2.
I don’t really think you get the point. Keeping the player long term is the worst outcome
Wait, this isnt complicated.
If ETH has a player he cant shift, he drops him to the bench, or out the squad. Its not rocket science.