Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

MrSingh2002

New Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
4,408
Yep! And for reference, this is Luke Shaw when he gives a shit.

Luke Shaw gave a shit for about a 5 month period and got in shape. He hasn't been in shape since that period around 4 years ago.

Shaw needs to be sold and we sign a new left back.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
Oles philosophy relied on having the centre forward as a focal point, someone who would work hard for the team and was good with there back to goal, its why with cavani as a focal point and bruno in behind we began to show some real promise last season, I think the actual plan was to wait and try and get haaland who would of suited Oles philosophy perfectly, instead the club pissed all over his chips by signing Ronaldo who is a great goalscorer but isn't a focal point by any stretch of the imagination. We had to try and fit Ronaldo in, change our attacking tactics to try to fit him in and frankly it hasn't worked.

Ole could set us up to defend deep and counter attack no problem, but he wanted to make us more dominating and more attacking and he needed a proper centre forward for it, Ronaldo didn't fit the bill. Ole wanted to go to 4-3-3 with a high press but as soon as Ronaldo was signed that went out the window. Because there is no way Ronaldo could play in a high press system.

Ole made plenty of mistakes and the horror of this season is certainly partly on his shoulders but he was handed some shit sandwiches by the club along the way aswell.
I don't really know if I believe the bolded. Even though we can't be certain we can piece together what his views about strikers were. He didn't exactly have a modern view of the position. Ole always always talked about wanting strikers to be greedy and have a one track mind for goal. Every other postmatch had him repeat some version of this;
"You've got to have that hunger to score a goal; it has to mean a lot for you to score a goal. I played with some of the most greedy strikers, and sometimes you have to be greedy as a striker!"
Quote could mean anything in isolation but placed within the context of the billion times he encouraged being selfish or ruthless in front of goal it's hard to deduce Ronaldo wasn't his kind of striker. His pursuit of Ronaldo wasn't something that was totally out of character. Ronaldo was everything he thought he wanted in a striker. He shot himself because he couldn't fathom how more firepower wasn't an instant linear improvement.
 
Last edited:

The United

Full Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
5,770
I don't really believe the bolded. Even though we can't be certain we can piece together what his views about strikers were. He didn't exactly have a modern view of the position. Ole always always talked about strikers being greedy and having a one track mind for goal. Every other postmatch had him repeat some version of this;


Quote could mean anything in isolation but placed within the context of the billion times he encouraged being selfish or ruthless in front of goal it's hard to believe Ronaldo wasn't his kind of striker. His pursuit of Ronaldo wasn't something that was totally out of character. Ronaldo was everything he thought he wanted in a striker. He shot himself because he couldn't fathom how more firepower could backfire.
What is the modern view of the striker position?!
 

Blood Mage

Full Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
5,822
Shaw hit peak fitness under Van Gaal, a strict disciplinarian who was obsessive about what his players ate. Not a coincidence I think. Hopefully Ten Hag holds similar views about the importance of nutrition and whips Shaw into shape.
 

Greck

Full Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
7,099
What is the modern view of the striker position?!
What he described. In possession, scoring while also being an overarching linkup figure in the frontline. Out of possession, being the first line of defense with pressing. Modern central striker does some of the work of the number 10s of old. Overall greater involvement in every phase of play than what was expected from their predecessors. Ronaldo can actually play this way but I think his goal ambitions always see him go back to a more specialist role in the next game.
 
Last edited:

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,554
Motivation is key for any human being. Best managers make players better because they can inspire them and motivate them. Look what Fergie or Klopp can get from average players.
We won’t sack half the squad anyway, so telling them that they are bad will not help. If someone can find the right place he can help the team.
True.
 

Ibi Dreams

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
6,147
To be fair they're not the best pictures. You can do a lot with lighting.

I'd say he's definitely had fluctuations though. That suggests discipline is a problem because if you're a professional footballer you have everything going for you to be lean. You run around all morning. Hit the gym. Get elite advice. The opportunity to have a perfect diet with minimal effort. It's pretty hard to not be in shape. Being fit to play proactive football for a whole season is a different level of fitness again, but to not be lean is baffling.
There have been rumours about him always getting takeaways, which sadly are probably true. Like you said, there's absolutely no reason for him to be as big as he often is. I can't see how that happens unless he's an overeater
 

phelans shorts

Full Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
27,217
Location
Gaz. Is a Mewling Quim.
I actually think the world cup might be a bit of a blessing for Ten Hag with the Ronaldo situation. Being mid-season, there's probably never been an easier time to tell Ronaldo he won't be playing every week. In a well functioning well coached side, ronaldo should be starting and scoring against countless weaker teams- but there are games he just isnt suited to also. Being a good team player, aware he wont start every week, I think he could be a crucial part of the team.
Now there is an allegation that has never been thrown at Ronaldo
 

Marwood

Full Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2021
Messages
4,251
Rooney was never lean but had a phenomenal work rate and intensity. You dont need to be in a low percentage of body fat to achieve that and boast a good cardio vascular system.
True when he was very young.

But by the time he was 28? It caught up with him.
 

sglowrider

Thinks the caf is 'wokeish'.
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
25,183
Location
Hell on Earth
I liked Neville Southall.... but had he been in shape he'd have been able to be even better, had he been in the shape he SHOULD have been.
They didn't do stats like they do now but I would be curious to see how much his girth helped out. Blocking shots off the belly or arse.
 

RedRonaldo

Wishes to be oppressed.
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
18,996
Ill argue against this. Conte only did well in regards of v Rangnick and Arteta imo. If Ten Hag brings ups up any level then we shouldn't be shaking our boots at Conte. Spurs will throw him under the bus as they do to any manager who asks them to work hard, plus 3 at the back has a short window for most sides in the EPL.
Id place a bet right now that Conte doesnt see out next season.
I think you have underestimated Conte abit. He won PL and Serie A not long ago, he drive clueless Spur into top 4 finish. I’ve also heard he will have 150m to spend in summer (more than us).
 

limerickcitykid

There once was a kid from Toronto...
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
14,051
Location
East end / Oot and aboot
Yep! And for reference, this is Luke Shaw when he gives a shit.

For further reference, that is Shaw with his leg broken and nowhere near fit to play football. The below is Shaw on his way to the Euros finals having been in the PL team of the season and winning player of the season for the 2nd place team. Yea, I’ll take the best LB in the world form over him having his leg broken thanks.

 

Conor

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
5,452
For further reference, that is Shaw with his leg broken and nowhere near fit to play football. The below is Shaw on his way to the Euros finals having been in the PL team of the season and winning player of the season for the 2nd place team. Yea, I’ll take the best LB in the world form over him having his leg broken thanks.

Not that I want to jump on this bandwagon, but it's clear he's not putting in the absolute maximum effort to be in the best shape he can be. There is no magical human that is at 100% peak fitness and still carrying that sort of body fat, there is a reason why 99% of footballers are easily sub 10% body fat.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Not that I want to jump on this bandwagon, but it's clear he's not putting in the absolute maximum effort to be in the best shape he can be. There is no magical human that is at 100% peak fitness and still carrying that sort of body fat, there is a reason why 99% of footballers are easily sub 10% body fat.
He doesn't have an sort of special body fat and no one is easily sub 10% body fat, it takes a lot of work for little gain outside of aesthetic. That's where people need to stop talking about fitness and training.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
Shaw isn't fat at all.

He's obviously not got a natural lean body similar to Rooney, but no chance will having more definition make him a better footballer :lol: there is no actual extra fat around his stomach/hips that might slow him down.

He looked like that while being dubbed 'Shawberto Carlos', form comes and goes. If he was struggling with his leg in pain then it's no wonder his form dipped a bit.
 

Conor

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
5,452
He doesn't have an sort of special body fat and no one is easily sub 10% body fat, it takes a lot of work for little gain outside of aesthetic. That's where people need to stop talking about fitness and training.
You've misunderstood my use of the word easily. It is pretty difficult for a top tier professional athlete to have the body he has, if their diet and training are min/maxed, it's a simple fact. Have every footballer from a top 6 team in the PL take their shirt off, and see how many of them are carrying as much weight as Shaw.
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
14,889
Location
Salford
I don't want Shaw gone because he has a Dad bod.

I want him gone because he's a half arsed Southampton twat who gets "injured" every time the club are playing shit.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
You've misunderstood my use of the word easily. It is pretty difficult for a top tier professional athlete to have the body he has, if their diet and training are min/maxed, it's a simple fact. Have every footballer from a top 6 team in the PL take their shirt off, and see how many of them are carrying as much weight as Shaw.
Believe me or not but the picture of Shaw that you see, is someone that is between 12% and 16% of body fat which is normal including for athletes. The vast majority of footballers will be in that range, some will be lower between 9 and 12 and almost no one under 9%.

And no it's not difficult for a top tier professional athlete to have the body he has, he has a normal body for anyone that trains without running a calorie deficit. Now the issue that people have to keep in mind is PEDs, beyond teenage staying around 10% body fat while training daily and competing at least once a week is extremely tiring, a good night of sleep isn't enough, you are not maintaining it for months without "help".
 

mobmob

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
58
Sorry, thought I clicked on the Ten Hag thread, not the Luke Shaw body fat percentage/diet thread.......
 

AjaxCunian

vexingwijsneus
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
4,230
Supports
Ajax & United
Shaw isn't fat at all.

He's obviously not got a natural lean body similar to Rooney, but no chance will having more definition make him a better footballer :lol: there is no actual extra fat around his stomach/hips that might slow him down.

He looked like that while being dubbed 'Shawberto Carlos', form comes and goes. If he was struggling with his leg in pain then it's no wonder his form dipped a bit.
He quite clearly carries extra fat around his stomach/hips. That's why hid stomach looks like that and you barely see his abdomimal muscles which I'm sure he has.
 

Tavern in the town

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
1,532
True when he was very young.

But by the time he was 28? It caught up with him.
No it didn’t. Rooney didn’t decline because of his body fat percentage, he decline because he’d been running his arse off at the top level since he was 16.
 

Hoof the ball

Full Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
Messages
12,189
Location
San Antonio, Texas.
Believe me or not but the picture of Shaw that you see, is someone that is between 12% and 16% of body fat which is normal including for athletes. The vast majority of footballers will be in that range, some will be lower between 9 and 12 and almost no one under 9%.

And no it's not difficult for a top tier professional athlete to have the body he has, he has a normal body for anyone that trains without running a calorie deficit. Now the issue that people have to keep in mind is PEDs, beyond teenage staying around 10% body fat while training daily and competing at least once a week is extremely tiring, a good night of sleep isn't enough, you are not maintaining it for months without "help".
Kindly explain how, in multiple other photos, Luke, combined with pre-season training and diet restriction has achieved a typically lean, athletic, toned physique with stripped enough bodyfat as to see definition in his medial deltoids, abdominals, lower chest, etc, and how that compares to the Luke Shaw who is less lean, athletic, toned and has enough bodyfat gain to not only obscure definition entirely, but to induce handles.

There is an obvious disparity between the two, and proves categorically that Luke can achieve a better athletic physique if he desired.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
He quite clearly carries extra fat around his stomach/hips. That's why hid stomach looks like that and you barely see his abdomimal muscles which I'm sure he has.
He just looks like a normal person. Why does having a 6 pack mean you'd be a better footballer? it's all for show.

If he was carrying significant weight then yeah sure he could be effected, but not in that shape. Ironically that picture is after the best form of his life.
 

Conor

Full Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
5,452
Believe me or not but the picture of Shaw that you see, is someone that is between 12% and 16% of body fat which is normal including for athletes. The vast majority of footballers will be in that range, some will be lower between 9 and 12 and almost no one under 9%.

And no it's not difficult for a top tier professional athlete to have the body he has, he has a normal body for anyone that trains without running a calorie deficit. Now the issue that people have to keep in mind is PEDs, beyond teenage staying around 10% body fat while training daily and competing at least once a week is extremely tiring, a good night of sleep isn't enough, you are not maintaining it for months without "help".
I'm sorry, but he's probably at around 15% bf in that specific pic, that is not normal for a top tier PL footballer, it just isn't. Please show me one Liverpool, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. starter, especially a full back, in that sort of shape. He clearly does not eat well, and probably doesn't train as hard as he could either. This isn't really a questionable thing, consistently throughout his Utd career he has been visibly more fatigued towards the end of games than other top level fullbacks, even when 'fully fit'. It's indicative of his attitude, I don't even see how this is questionable at this point. I severely doubt he is eating completely clean calories to hold on to that sort of fat, and having a poor diet can lead to increased levels of injury etc., it's pretty evident he could be doing more, and that doing more would positively impact his game.

He just looks like a normal person. Why does having a 6 pack mean you'd be a better footballer? it's all for show.

If he was carrying significant weight then yeah sure he could be effected, but not in that shape. Ironically that picture is after the best form of his life.
This makes no sense, he's a top tier footballer being paid a fortune, in part to be in the best physical shape he can be in. Can he still be good at football carrying weight? Of course. Will being in better shape, with better fitness positively impact his on pitch performance, and reduce injuries etc., also yes.
 

Trex

Full Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
3,041
Location
Nigeria
Many people are forgetting Shaw played the Euros with a broken rib if I remember correctly, so maybe that affected his preparation for this season.
 

youmeletsfly

New Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2018
Messages
2,528
Many people are forgetting Shaw played the Euros with a broken rib if I remember correctly, so maybe that affected his preparation for this season.
I think food is related to what affected his preparation for this season.
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
36,521
Please show me one Liverpool, City, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc. starter, especially a full back, in that sort of shape.
Not them but KdB for City doesn't have defined body either.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
65,354
Location
France
Kindly explain how, in multiple other photos, Luke, combined with pre-season training and diet restriction has achieved a typically lean, athletic, toned physique with stripped enough bodyfat as to see definition in his medial deltoids, abdominals, lower chest, etc, and how that compares to the Luke Shaw who is less lean, athletic, toned and has enough bodyfat gain to not only obscure definition entirely, but to induce handles.

There is an obvious disparity between the two, and proves categorically that Luke can achieve a better athletic physique if he desired.
Context is different, some of the pictures are from Shaw as a teenager or in his early 20s. It's also easier(not easy) to lower your body fat during pre season or by the end of it because in order to build a base you focus on a lot of cardio, you can also run a deficit since there is no competition and no focus on performance, in that context you can lose maybe 1%-2% body fat in 2 months but it's not something that you are going to maintain, you are not going to work as much during the season, you are not going to fast regularly.

An other thing that is in my opinion very important defintion varies greatly with relatively small body fat percentages differences.
 

AjaxCunian

vexingwijsneus
Joined
Mar 10, 2021
Messages
4,230
Supports
Ajax & United
He just looks like a normal person. Why does having a 6 pack mean you'd be a better footballer? it's all for show.

If he was carrying significant weight then yeah sure he could be effected, but not in that shape. Ironically that picture is after the best form of his life.
Yes you can be a better footballer whilst having worse shape, yes you can be a worse footballer whilst having worse shape. Sure.

The point is, Shaw is categorically out of shape for years. Paired with his form and fitness over the last years, it points to a lack of professionalism and discipline. Especially when he did have periods getting into better shape.

Unless you believe that having extra weight doesnt impact stamina, agility, explosivity and sensitivity to injuries at all.

Funnily enough, Ten Hag refused to play Ihattaren in the 1st team, mainly because of this.