Thank God.
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik(@Rood) and Jamie(@Vault Dweller) are here to discuss the supposedly impending 25% takeover by Sir Jim Ratcliffe. They outline what they're hoping for, what we're likely to see and most importantly, when we can expect it to happen.
They also talk about the international break, Scott McTerminator, a win over Luton, a loss away in Copenhagen and also review United Women's disappointing derby defeat to Man City at Old Trafford. Finally they preview our tricky upcoming trips to Everton and Galatasary.
Thank God again.
Bullying? How so? Is there a chance people are reacting to your own posts? If more people think differently to you and challenge your views it’s not bullying, it’s just general consensus
You don’t need to react to every single post you disagree with and you don’t need to respond to everybody who has a different view to you, like they are the exact same. We aren’t all the same and this idea, quite popular on social media, that if you think something on one thing about a topic it means you are bracketed as the same on so many other things, is an unhealthy way of engaging.
You are haunting anybody who supports ETH. I only know of you as a poster because you are always here to have a pop at somebody who tries to defend him. Like the same people who couldn’t help and spread their misery in my “optimistic” thread. They had every right to post but they aren’t adding anything to the thread, just dumping their pessimism that some people seem to thrive on!
It’s ironic that some people call it the cult of manager because if that’s accurate then they themselves subscribe to the “cult of sacking managers”. I believe this is just a quite shallow way of spoiling debate/discussion and is used when people can’t use logic to defend their position. It’s not a cult of anything, it’s people with different opinions.
Bring your evidence on this.
I agree with everything you post here. I hope you keep haunting them, whether it takes a month, a year, or even 2 years.
Only had to go back a few posts
So people who don’t share your views on ETH are , in your words, “sh*tting all over the clubs standards”.
I’m just saying that perhaps there’s times when people are responding hostile to your own hostility towards others.
Results are not terrible when you look at the table but what’s with our fans bragging all over the place for the last few days about being just 7 points behind City and 6 behind Arsenal and Liverpool as if it’s good?
We are only 12 games into the season, we have already played 8 out of the bottom 10 teams including all of bottom 3, and if you extrapolate our current gap to these teams over the course of season we are going to end up around 20 points behind all of them - and that’s not even factoring in our easy calendar so far.
Results are not ‘good’ by any means.
We are only 12 games into the season, we have already played 8 out of the bottom 10 teams including all of bottom 3, and if you extrapolate our current gap to these teams over the course of season we are going to end up around 20 points behind all of them - and that’s not even factoring in our easy calendar so far.
Results are not ‘good’ by any means.
It's not though. McTominay, sancho, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Rashford, martial, Dalot, wan bissaka are all not 'his players'.
I was wrong on calling you out for making shit up before, but I sure as hell ain't now.
The results are fine. We can't extrapolate really because sides hit form at different times over the course of a season. Being within 6-7 pts of title leaders despite a huge injury crisis and confidence shot team is actually a good thing.
Results have been average, performances have been poor.
I don't think anyone should be bragging, I think it's more a case of it can't get any worse and we are not that far behind. People believe that there are signs that with injuries and confidence we can go on a run. Our style has changed dramatically to last season so there will need to be time before it shows and we find a rhythm.
Because (amidst a massive injury crisis and a load of off-field nonsense) we've been shite, yet Brighton have "BEAT" football and Newcastle are great, and yet we're still within touching distance. We're within touching distance and above both teams, precisely because the results have actually not been as bad as made out.
Is it great that we've scraped our wins? Obviously not. Does the result change just because we struggled to win by one goal, and didn't coast to a victory by five? No.
As for this "if you extrapolate this over the season" bollocks, that's not how football works.
The top half of last season's table at around the same stage:
- Arsenal - 28 pts
- City - 26 pts
- Spurs - 23 pts
- Newcastle - 21 pts
- Chelsea - 21 pts
- United - 20 pts
- Fulham - 18 pts
- Liverpool - 16 pts
- Brighton - 15 pts
- West Ham - 14 pts
- Arsenal - 97 pts (2nd/84)( -1/-13)
- City - 90 pts (1st/89) (+1/-1)
- Spurs - 73 pts (8th/60) (-5/-13)
- Chelsea - 73 pts (12th/44) (-8/-29)
- United - 69 pts (3rd/75) (+2/+6)
- Newcastle - 67 pts (4th/71) (+2/+4)
- Fulham - 57 pts (10th/52) (-3/-5)
- Liverpool - 55 pts (5th/67) (+3/+12)
- Brighton - 52 pts (6th/62) (+3/+10)
- Crystal Palace - 45 pts (11th/45) (-1/0)
- West Ham - 44 pts (14th/40) (-3/-4)
Well I didn’t really mean each team is going to get 3 times as many points as they got so far, just pointed out that 6-7 points isn’t few when you’ve only played 12 games. It’s a gap that can only be turned around in minimum 2 and most likely 3 rounds of games, so a fourth of what has already been played.
Also the difficulty of fixtures has to be taken into perspective. We have probably had the easiest calendar of all top 10 teams so far, playing 8/10 bottom 10 teams and playing 7 out of 12 games at home. This definitely skews things in our favor. It’s quite clear us being 6th has a lot to do with the fact that our calendar has been extremely favorable as we are yet to pick up a single point from a top 10 team.
Newcastle for instance are a point behind us but have already played 6 out of the remaining 9 top half teams and have only us, Chelsea and Spurs remaining. They have an injury / absentees crisis now though so could very well fall further behind.
Brighton have actually been quite bad since they beat us. I don’t think anyone can reasonably say they’ve had a good season, they are clearly struggling with juggling PL and Europe.
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Oh I think it can get much, much worse. The fact we have barely played any decent teams, and every single point we have picked up has been against a bottom 10 team indicates it can get much worse.
Our record against the "top" teams was criticised heavily last season, yet we finished third.
At some point I expect the injury issues to clear, our attackers to find the back of the net, and our performances to improve. It'd be incredibly unlucky for that not to happen.
This post is sharing a point of view as you mentioned, not haunting anyone, moaning about how he's voicing his opinion or telling him to say what I want. I'm replying on his point of view, maybe aggressively but that's not haunting. Haunting and bullying is attacking a certain poster and keep calling him out because he has an unpopular opinion, which I never did. I never searched for posts of those I'm replying to trying to find anything contradictory he said before and use it against him.. Etc.
I'm deliberately criticizing people who are moaning about us voicing their opinions, though. Many here who defend the guy and I never quoted. When I say the "manager cult" I mean those posters who want to shut us up whenever we criticize the guy.
So he needs to buy a full squad of 32 players to call the team his own?
He bought close to 11 new players
He gave Bruno the armband and renewed Dalot contract.
He is starting Scott McTominay ahead of his own signings Mount and Amrabat.
Varane was a main player for him alongside Martinez, his own signing, until his injury.
Rashford has been our best player under him and he never subs or bench him. Martial doesn't play anyway neither ahead of Rashford nor Hoijland. He's a squad player.
You are daydreaming if you think a manager will come in, throw the entire squad consisting of plus 30 players out of the window, then buy full new 30 players. Managers come in, sign their players, and keep players they like from the current squad. Which is what Ten Hag did.
This team is different from the one under Ole. Martinez, Onana, Caseimro, Hojlund and Antony all entered the main lineup. That's half of the team. The rest are Shaw, Varane, Rashford and Bruno.. All trusted by Ten Hag. Scott as I said is playing ahead two of his signings.
Yep, anyone optimistically looking at us being 'only' 7 points behind City is in for a shock when the fixtures level out.
We're lucky to have as many points as we have so far. Goal difference is a big indicator, lack of goals is going to ruin us.
I keep telling myself that. Then I slog through another 90 minutes of suffering and question decisions in life.
I cringed.
In fairness, the "show ignored content" button is very hard to resist
We have a tough run of fixtures over the next 6 weeks......
Everton A
Galatasaray A
Newcastle A
Chelsea H
Bourmouth H
Bayern H
Liverpool A
West Ham A
Villa H
Forest A
Let's assume performances are still indifferent and there is no mitigating circumstances like even more injuries, how many league points, as well as European progress, does Ten Hag need to save his job?
For me, it has to be at least 12 points from 24 and not to drop out of Europe all together.
Everton A
Galatasaray A
Newcastle A
Chelsea H
Bourmouth H
Bayern H
Liverpool A
West Ham A
Villa H
Forest A
Let's assume performances are still indifferent and there is no mitigating circumstances like even more injuries, how many league points, as well as European progress, does Ten Hag need to save his job?
For me, it has to be at least 12 points from 24 and not to drop out of Europe all together.
A lot depends on the new owners and whether they are performance based or results based, or even both. We don’t know what strikes a chord with them or what they think of the job ETH did last season, let alone this one. I should imagine things are about to change for the whole club now.
No, he doesn't need a squad of 32, but he is constantly needing to pick players he never bought in his first XI where Mount aside, it's obligated as his transfers were injured or unavailable. Amrabat himself has started games too. Him rotating with McT doesn't mean he's displaced but eludes more to squad management.So he needs to buy a full squad of 32 players to call the team his own?
He bought close to 11 new players
He gave Bruno the armband and renewed Dalot contract.
He is starting Scott McTominay ahead of his own signings Mount and Amrabat.
Varane was a main player for him alongside Martinez, his own signing, until his injury.
Rashford has been our best player under him and he never subs or bench him. Martial doesn't play anyway neither ahead of Rashford nor Hoijland. He's a squad player.
You are daydreaming if you think a manager will come in, throw the entire squad consisting of plus 30 players out of the window, then buy full new 30 players. Managers come in, sign their players, and keep players they like from the current squad. Which is what Ten Hag did.
This team is different from the one under Ole. Martinez, Onana, Caseimro, Hojlund and Antony all entered the main lineup. That's half of the team. The rest are Shaw, Varane, Rashford and Bruno.. All trusted by Ten Hag. Scott as I said is playing ahead two of his signings.
So that shows it isn't ten hags squad. What you said is complete and utter hyperbole and bullshit, considering I named 6-8 players that he never bought who have been prominent performers in his side.
Everton D
Galatasaray L
Newcastle L
Chelsea D
Bournemouth W
Bayern don’t care
Liverpool L
West Ham D
Villa D
Forest D
This would be my expectation so 8 points in the next 8 league games. Based on that schedule, anything above 12 points in the league will be considered a big success, 10-12 will be simply good, below 5 points will be bad.
Liverpool we will 100% lose, just hope we keep it under 3-0 somehow. Bournemouth I think should be a win. The other 6 games I think we could win any of them except West Ham and Newcastle, and lose any of them really.
CL I don’t care about anymore as we likely make it out of the group and I’d rather not be third to be honest.
Does his job need saving? He's not in a bad position in the league. But if you mean what he needs to do to keep the shit talk at bay, I'd want him to beat Everton, Galatasary, Bournemouth, West ham/villa and Forrest as a minimum. And I'd expect draws to Bayern and Newcastle.
It's all theoretically doable but we need to start getting more in game luck going our way, and we need key players back like Shaw and AWB on either side
After 18 months, you can't expect any manager to be able to field an XI of all his own players. And the job of a manager isnt to just manage his signing - he should be getting more out of all of his players.
As of the previous game, he is missing two of his signings that should be starting - Casemiro and Marinez. Big losses, granted.
We had 6 ETH signings starting V Brighton and got thumped.
I would buy the argument, but the problem is, Ten Hag's signings this season, are preforming no better than those signed by previous managers.
I don't think it's as bad as it initially seems. Newcastle have an injury crisis of their own, Chelsea are all over the place. Bayern have already won the group with 2 games to go, so they are only playing for pride. Considering how competitive the Bundesliga is shaping up to be this season, they'd be fools to go full strength and give 100%.
Liverpool away is brutal. Galatasaray and Villa are challenging. Luckily none of these are consecutive games.
I should have rephrased "saving". I meant get to the point where questions are not getting asked, especially in the context of new management coming in.
16 out of 24 points would be a very good tally. As would 4 points from Galatasaray and Munich home. Very possible. You are right, getting the first chose full backs in would be huge. If Shaw is not back, i would at least like to see Reglion getting a run of games - Dalot at left back is not it.
I worry about Everton away. They have turned things around with wins against Bournemouth, West Ham away, Burnley (cup) and Palace away. They held Liverpool out for the majority of the game with 10 men.
I didnt say starting XI. I said squad. I also disagree with the "thumped" notion. Our first half was pretty good especially before it was 0-1.
Also, the ten hag signing not performing well argument is overcooked. Malacia has had knee surgery, licha needed surgery, hojlund came in injured (and you can argue he's proving to be better value than the alternative club targets in Ramos and Kolo Muani). Amrabat is a loan so who cares, regulon wasn't even his emergency choice right back and Antony has overhanging issues.
I agree onana, Mount should be showing more but the former has come into his own of late. Antony and Mount are so far red marks against him but his business as terrible as people make out. Just like his form isn't.
We were decent for 20 mins, then De Zerbi split his center backs and dominated possession and the game.
In my opinion, the Brighton game was the worst of this season given Ten Hag lined up with a weird midfield diamond, with McTominay at the right side of it. He was left trying to cover two men, therefore covered non.
The fact that Ten Hag couldn't effectively react to De Zerbi's tactical change was a real red flag.
No one is knocking the players injured. Not having Martinez is huge.
If Amrabat was tearing it up, you wouldn't be saying "he is on loan, so who cares".
My point was that you could make a valid argument for Ten Hag needing more of his own players in the squad, if it was the case that his signings were the ones that were performing. But very few are. The irony is that the ones that are popping up with performances and goals are the ones that he felt were surplus to requirements over the summer.
The true test is coming up in the next 6 weeks. We have had our easy run of games against relegation fodder. If he can't get a tune out of this team post the international break, then i can't see INEOS wanting to keep him around and provide players for him.
Christ this is grim, and we still want to keep the guy that gets those results while also playing crap football every week?
Why exactly?
I think we may struggle for a while yet, ten hag may be one of the best tacticians around but I think he’s really struggling with man management and creating or maintaining a team bond. Hopefully a win or two will change it around
Everton A - draw
Galatasaray A - draw
Newcastle A - loss
Chelsea H - loss
Bourmouth H - win
Bayern H - loss
Liverpool A - loss
West Ham A - loss
Villa H - loss
Forest A - loss
looks grim when I look back at this list and how I feel about these matches, hope I’m wrong about them
So possible new Director Of Football.
So should the new DOF also chose their own manager? Or reckon they can work with Ten Hag?
So should the new DOF also chose their own manager? Or reckon they can work with Ten Hag?
I really hope your predictions are wrong. He’ll be sacked before he gets all them losses. Think we’ll beat Bournemouth, forest, Chelsea. Not sure on the others.
It’s really just my expectations to be honest, has nothing to do with ten Hag.
I think he will keep the job until middle of next season at least regardless of results. Even if we finish low this year, he will be allowed to buy more of his players in the Summer and try to get the team to play better next year. If we are not competitive then, he will go. I think with new leadership at the club they will want to give him at least the Summer to fix things.
Ten Hag has spent an absolute fortune and moved many of players on. At what stage does he take responsibility?
I hope they’re wrong too but it does look a tough set of fixtures.
Bournemouth we really should win, Chelsea could go either way depending on how each team turns up, forest should be a win but they can surprise and dig in and could smell blood by that point
I’m sure he has many qualities as a coach but being a great tactician is definitely not one of them.