Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

[VP89]

That's a moot point, though. He could buy 50 players with 400m to spend, and make the squad plus the reserve all his "players", but he chose not to.

Let's go into these soundbites. He inherited a squad where around 10 squad /match day players left. He also had holes in the existing team, ie no striker, no real back up striker, no right winger, a midfield duo commonly trashed each time they started together and an entire back 5 incabable of playing a high line with attacking interchanges bar Shaw (and Varane, but he's made of glass).

The 400m line is thrown around like it's a huge sum of money but it's not going to fix those holes in today's market. A top striker is more than 100m alone. So is an absolute top single midfielder.

The Antony signing is a royal feck up but guess what, he's not 400m.

Back to your quote, I don't see how its a moot point because all I said is it's not "his squad". He's obligated to play so many players he inherited, not least since most of his signings have often been injured or unavailable.

 

[Captmfla]

ETH has made some shrewd purchases in Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. You can see that the club is now better with these players.

 

[stefan92]

Amazing discussion... EtH is manager of Manchester United, so the squad of Manchester United is his squad to work with. He is responsible getting results and for that it doesn't matter how many of the players he inherited or bought himself.

We can discuss whether the squad is good enough and whether he made it better or not, and we can discuss if he gets this squad performing on a level it should looking at the player quality. But claiming that this isn’t his squad is just a lame excuse

 

[Isotope]

Let's go into these soundbites. He inherited a squad where around 10 squad /match day players left. He also had holes in the existing team, ie no striker, no real back up striker, no right winger, a midfield duo commonly trashed each time they started together and an entire back 5 incabable of playing a high line with attacking interchanges bar Shaw (and Varane, but he's made of glass).

The 400m line is thrown around like it's a huge sum of money but it's not going to fix those holes in today's market. A top striker is more than 100m alone. So is an absolute top single midfielder.

The Antony signing is a royal feck up but guess what, he's not 400m.

Back to your quote, I don't see how its a moot point because all I said is it's not "his squad". He's obligated to play so many players he inherited, not least since most of his signings have often been injured or unavailable.

He chose not to make it his "squad". He knew a club like United has budget constraint.

Buying 50-75m players (or top players) only, so that can be part of his "squad", he'd be a lesser manager than I thought. If you're right.

 

[VP89]

He chose not to make it his "squad". He knew a club like United has budget constraint.

Buying 50-75m players only, so that can be part of his squad, he probably a lesser manager than I think. If you're right.

Thats actually not true. Some of our FFP issues came because of sponsorship renewal issues and the regulators not taking kindly to our losses in covid years for which we expected more leniancy (there was an article from Athletic if I recall, where the club were disappointed by that from FFP regulators).

Also he couldn't predict ronaldos situation and needing to dumpster dive in January with a 2m budget for a striker. Every manager comes in expecting constraints but he has both made mistakes and been dealt a very tricky hand.

 

[MadMike]

Amazing discussion... EtH is manager of Manchester United, so the squad of Manchester United is his squad to work with. He is responsible getting results and for that it doesn't matter how many of the players he inherited or bought himself.

We can discuss whether the squad is good enough and whether he made it better or not, and we can discuss if he gets this squad performing on a level it should looking at the player quality. But claiming that this isn’t his squad is just a lame excuse

Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.

Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.

If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.

EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.

 

[Isotope]

Thats actually not true. Some of our FFP issues came because of sponsorship renewal issues and the regulators not taking kindly to our losses in covid years for which we expected more leniancy (there was an article from Athletic if I recall, where the club were disappointed by that from FFP regulators).

Also he couldn't predict ronaldos situation and needing to dumpster dive in January with a 2m budget for a striker. Every manager comes in expecting constraints but he has both made mistakes and been dealt a very tricky hand.

He had 200m to spend every season. That's far away from FFP constraint.

And Ronaldo issue was done early half of last season. He wasn't that good anymore anyway. Most of us wanted him gone, as people agreed that "he prevented us playing ten Hag ball, and made the team playing worse". So why using him as excuse?

 

[VP89]

He had 200m to spend every season. That's far away from FFP constraint.

And Ronaldo issue was done early half of last season. He wasn't that good anymore anyway. Most of us wanted him gone, as people agreed that "he prevented us playing ten Hag ball, and made the team playing worse". So why using him as excuse?

200m doesn't actually fill as many gaps as you might expect in one window, if you want say a top striker and a top midfielder then that's the money gone.

I disagree most of us wanted Ronaldo gone when ten hag came in. He was our top scorer.

 

[crossy1686]

ETH has made some shrewd purchases in Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. You can see that the club is now better with these players.

We just made the worst start to a league campaign in over 60 years?

 

[Freak]

We just made the worst start to a league campaign in over 60 years?

With god knows how many injuries, player problems (Sancho, Antony), and uncertainty over the ownership. And yet, we are only 6 points off second place. Performance wise we are shit but considering everything, we really are not that bad in terms of where we are placed in the table.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

We just made the worst start to a league campaign in over 60 years?

We have? In the post-SAF era alone, we've had fewer (or the same, just once) than 21 points after 12 games in 6/10 previous campaigns. Not that this excuses our current form or the quality of the performances, but who makes this stuff up? Is it a Social Media thing, people creating narratives to ride the current trends? Also, it's quite interesting that half of these seasons don't fall into the "wheels came off" category.

 

[MadDogg]

We just made the worst start to a league campaign in over 60 years?

That was only true after about 5 games; certainly not anymore. This season has felt painful, but at the moment it's actually the third best start in the last six league seasons. In fact going back over the the 11 years since Fergie retired, only four times have we had more than 21 points after 12 games (plus another time with the same points but better goal difference).

At this point in the last 11 seasons:

13/14 - 21 points
14/15 - 19 points
15/16 - 24 points
16/17 - 19 points
17/18 - 26 points
18/19 - 20 points
19/20 - 16 points
20/21 - 23 points
21/22 - 17 points
22/23 - 23 points
23/24 - 21 points

It's the cup games which really hurts this season, losing 4 of the 6 games in the CL and EFL Cup.

Edit: Actually it wasn't even true after five games. 14/15 we were worse off with only 5 points as opposed to the 6 we had this season.

 

[sugar_kane]

That was only true after about 5 games; certainly not anymore. This season has felt painful, but at the moment it's actually the third best start in the last six league seasons. In fact going back over the the 11 years since Fergie retired, only four times have we had more than 21 points after 12 games (plus another time with the same points but better goal difference).

At this point in the last 11 seasons:

13/14 - 21 points
14/15 - 19 points
15/16 - 24 points
16/17 - 19 points
17/18 - 26 points
18/19 - 20 points
19/20 - 16 points
20/21 - 23 points
21/22 - 17 points
22/23 - 23 points
23/24 - 21 points

It's the cup games which really hurts this season, losing 4 of the 6 games in the CL and EFL Cup.

Edit: Actually it wasn't even true after five games. 14/15 we were worse off with only 5 points as opposed to the 6 we had this season.

I wouldn't bother mate the guy you're replying to is a lunatic.

What you've highlighted though about points by season is very valid and completely ignored by people who should know better (ie, journalists, pundits and our own fans)

What's more significant to me also is how far we are off top spot in each of those seasons, as the context is important. For example, in 17/18 and 22/23 we were 8 points behind top spot after 12 games and this season we're 7 points behind.

Even saying that, 12 games is relatively few to judge on. We were 2 points behind at this stage in 15/16 and finished 15 points behind Leicester. It's all just sound bites and ammo to attack the club and increase the pressure.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

Well if Noel demands his sacking, who are we to disagree

Ten Hag sack demand at Man Utd made as Noel Gallagher picks shock Premier League boss as successor (msn.com)

 

[NLunited]

I don’t think you can call this Ten Hag’s squad yet, although it is slowly moving in the right direction.

New signings: Casemiro isn’t exactly a Ten Hag player either.

Now we see players like McTominay and Maguire playing themselves into the side, also not Ten Hag players.

It does not matter, he has to manage them and win games. But to claim he now has his squad is silly.

 

[gantherbale]

Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear 192.168.100.1 192.168.1.1 absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.

Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.

If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.

EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.

I disagree with that ! if you sign 5 players you expect them to turn the situation to your side

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

I've been busy recently, but when I looked at the league table, we are only 7 points behind City who are first, the teams ahead of us dropped alot of points too which makes it respectable.

I know we are shit right now but there is a chance to salvage the league (as in secure top 4)

 

[Leftback99]

I've been busy recently, but when I looked at the league table, we are only 7 points behind City who are first, the teams ahead of us dropped alot of points too which makes it respectable.

I know we are shit right now but there is a chance to salvage the league (as in secure top 4)

'Only' 7 points is more likely to double by the end of the year than get any closer. We're playing terribly and have had an easy run of games so far.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.

Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.

If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.

EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.

This.

It shows how clueless he has been. He bought players for one reason and then bought into the utd dna shite, playing completely different than what he used to at his previous club. If you want to play direct transition football, why buy Antony for 90m? Just a dumpster fire situation. He should have moulded/built a squad to play the way he did at Ajax but instead decided to build a system to get the best out of the shower of shit we have here.

The way his teams play is a testament to this situation - clueless.

 

[devilish]

ETH has made some shrewd purchases in Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. You can see that the club is now better with these players.

Casemiro I'd not a shrewd signing

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

'Only' 7 points is more likely to double by the end of the year than get any closer. We're playing terribly and have had an easy run of games so far.

We played terribly for 12 weeks of PL football yet we are still not that far off, hence why I think there is a chance to keep up but you are right in the sense that we can't continue to be shit and the team must start to perform far far better to capitalize on the opportunity the oppos gave us when they dropped points

 

[TwoSheds]

So rather than the same old sniping, what should the coach do to build momentum from hereon in in the season. Change of formation? Tinker to get the best out of a player who hasn't been performing yet? More of the same but with injured players hopefully returning? What should the future look like for the rest of this season?

Personally I'd like to see Garnacho or Mount play on the right and have Antony coming off the bench. He usually seems to put in a strong performance off the bench in the limited sample I've seen.

Any better and more comprehensive ideas from the Caf hive mind though?

 

[DJ_21]

'Only' 7 points is more likely to double by the end of the year than get any closer. We're playing terribly and have had an easy run of games so far.

Played terrible with an halve injured squad but still picking up the points… meaning things can only get better for us when players return. Newcastle and spurs are struggling with only a couple of injuries. They ain’t getting badly criticised like we are. Anybody would think we’re like 15 pts behind or something. 7 is nothing at this stage of the season.

 

[Leftback99]

Played terrible with an halve injured squad but still picking up the points… meaning things can only get better for us when players return. Newcastle and spurs are struggling with only a couple of injuries. They ain’t getting badly criticised like we are. Anybody would think we’re like 15 pts behind or something. 7 is nothing at this stage of the season.

Picking up points despite performances won't last. None are returning anytime soon. Fixtures are getting harder.

 

[50 peswes]

Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.

Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.

If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.

EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.

Don’t you know? Unless you have signed all 25 players in a squad, then it’s not your squad and by extension you bear absolutely no responsibility for the performances and results.

Sarcasm aside, the discussion of whether the squad is good enough is also a judgement on the manager. He made 11 permanent signings in 15 months (after having previously won a boardroom battle to oust Rangnick and the previous scouting team) most of which were his personal choices.

If the team is playing/performing too poorly for its quality level, tha’s squarely with him. And if the squad quality is poor, then that’s at least partly on him. There’s just no way he can be rationally shielded from all criticism.

EDIT: Also it’s insteresting to hear the rational explanation of why the more the team becomes “his” the worse it is performing.

Exactly

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

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[gaffs]

ETH has made some shrewd purchases in Hojlund, Onana and Casemiro. You can see that the club is now better with these players.

Shrewd? Onana was on a free last year and Casemiro was a panic buy.

 

[gaffs]

I don’t think you can call this Ten Hag’s squad yet, although it is slowly moving in the right direction.

New signings: Casemiro isn’t exactly a Ten Hag player either.

Now we see players like McTominay and Maguire playing themselves into the side, also not Ten Hag players.

It does not matter, he has to manage them and win games. But to claim he now has his squad is silly.

How many signings does it take to become "his squad" ?

 

[Baxquux]

How many signings does it take to become "his squad" ?

20, plus another 3 years (plus no injuries), according to his defenders on here, it would appear....

 

[gaffs]

20, plus another 3 years (plus no injuries), according to his defenders on here, it would appear....

Well, that aint happening because any new signings will be seen as INEOS / The New Director of footballs signings, so the manager can be insulated from that criticism.

Personally, unless there is a massive uptick in form post this international break, which will be tough considering the opposition, I don't think he will see the January transfer window.

 

[Terranova]

Shrewd? Onana was on a free last year and Casemiro was a panic buy.

Onana wasn't available for free. He signed a contract with Inter the moment it was allowed. Just because he made a free transfer doesn't mean he was available.

 

[hobbers]

ETH has made some shrewd purchases in ... Casemiro.

Christ alive

 

[astracrazy]

Shrewd? Onana was on a free last year and Casemiro was a panic buy.

Christ, how many times does this need repeating. Onana had already signed to join Inter as soon as he was able (Jan) before EtH was even announced as our manager (April) . What is exactly was EtH meant to have done to sign him on a free when he wasn't even our manager.....?

Casemiro being a panic buy was already debunked when Fred admitted he knew for months about the signing. Just because the press didn't know doesn't mean that when they do that's the start of the timeline of events.

 

[Ikon]

Personally, unless there is a massive uptick in form post this international break, which will be tough considering the opposition, I don't think he will see the January transfer window.

I have to agree, I think ETH is on very thin ice, and I don't see him being here much beyond Christmas.
Everton Away, Galatasaray Away, Newcastle Away, Chelsea Home, Bournemouth Home, Bayern Munich Home.
I honestly don't see us getting more than one win out of that schedule, and we'll obviously be crashing out of the CL and Europe.

 

[Ayoba]

I have to agree, I think ETH is on very thin ice, and I don't see him being here much beyond Christmas.
Everton Away, Galatasaray Away, Newcastle Away, Chelsea Home, Bournemouth Home, Bayern Munich Home.
I honestly don't see us getting more than one win out of that schedule, and we'll obviously be crashing out of the CL and Europe.

Christ, that is horrendous!

 

[NewGlory]

I have to agree, I think ETH is on very thin ice, and I don't see him being here much beyond Christmas.
Everton Away, Galatasaray Away, Newcastle Away, Chelsea Home, Bournemouth Home, Bayern Munich Home.
I honestly don't see us getting more than one win out of that schedule, and we'll obviously be crashing out of the CL and Europe.

- Everton away - we have a bit of a chance but I can totally see us bottling it. More likely we lose it than win it, in my opinion
- Galatasaray away - we have no chance winning in our current form
- Newcastle away - we are losing this one
- Chelsea home - more chance we lose it than win it
- Bournemouth home - hopefully we win it
- Bayern Munich home - we have no chance winning it

so, yes - horrible as it sounds, in the worst case scenario we could lose all but one or two.
Best case scenario - we win or draw three out of those, but that's it

It will take a miracle for us to find a good form and start winning most of these games. And by "miracle" I mean - our defense holding clean sheets (maybe Luke Shaw return helps, maybe Amrabat breaks out as a star) and Rashford, Garnacho, Hojlund start scoring.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

With god knows how many injuries, player problems (Sancho, Antony), and uncertainty over the ownership. And yet, we are only 6 points off second place. Performance wise we are shit but considering everything, we really are not that bad in terms of where we are placed in the table.

This is a very big issue though. Shrugging our shoulders because you are 6 points off of second while playing horrific football in our second season is just choosing to ignore issues

 

[BluesJr]

Hag needs to start cooking. I think we’d all be a little more tolerant with dodgy results if we scored far more. I’d much rather lose 4-3 (in the league) than 1-0 with us looking incapable.

 

[December_16]

I don’t think it’s quite fair to squarely blame ETH for the players he current has to manage. Nor do I think it’s fair to blame him for several losses this season, especially those where the refs were hell bent on officiating against us. However, I think he’s very much responsible for not getting the players to do the basics right and slogging through games like a bunch of nannies. It doesn’t have to be champagne football every game, but a team playing with next to no sparks for almost half a season in his second season is pretty unacceptable.

 

[sunama]

20, plus another 3 years (plus no injuries), according to his defenders on here, it would appear....

The injury excuse that the ETH defenders use, is ridiculous.
EVERY side has injuries and the manager's job is literally to navigate through tricky situations like that.