Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager

ForeverRed1

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Just saw it. Everything in your post is spot on. The expectations at this club are immense. It breaks people and I think it's broken most in this squad. Hopefully ETH can deal with it.
exactly. Even looking at the players.. how the fold here.. internationals who have cut it at other clubs come here and crumble. I can’t imagine the level of scrutiny and abuse they get. Not defending them but it’s something you or I don’t have to deal with. This lot are broken. It’s got to be mental at this point. No chance we don’t have a better squad than teams that are smashing us right now.
 

Sir Erik ten Hag

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I'm all for waiting for the plan to kick in, but I never considered getting thumped 4-0 in 35 minutes by Brentford to be part of the process.

What's next? Holding Liverpool to a marginal 1-0 win being considered an improvement?
To be honest, any point against Liverpool would be an improvement to the last 2 matches.
 

Glorio

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When a progressive manager does join a new team unused to a progressive style of play, shocking losses do pop up here and there. Let's see what happens going forward, unfortunately, Liverpool aren't the sort of team you plan to get back on track with!

We've seen teams trying to play progressively thumped 8-0 and the like, hopefully it doesn't get to that. I hope for the manager's sake and the team's confidence we can get a couple of wins on the bounce from somewhere fast
 

sullydnl

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I'm all for waiting for the plan to kick in, but I never considered getting thumped 4-0 in 35 minutes by Brentford to be part of the process.

What's next? Holding Liverpool to a marginal 1-0 win being considered an improvement?
I mean.... yes?

Liverpool hammered us twice last season and if you look in the matchday thread you'll see 87% of posters think Liverpool will win this match. Off the back of two bad opening defeats a marginal 1-0 loss would absolutely be a step forward. So much so that I think there's very little chance of it happening.

Also you probably should have expected some results like the Brentford one. Even when Pep took over at City he had 4-0 losses to teams like Everton in a season where he experienced his biggest ever losses and his worst run of results as a manager. And that was with a vastly superior squad to ours. We were always going to take some hammerings this season.

It's just dissapointing that they came along so quickly. But then if you told us back in May that we'd go into the opening two games only having brought in the players we did, most people on here would have predicted bad things.
 

Terranova

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It is not a flaw imo. It’s progress to do something that is not easy to accomplish. Great things take time. I am standing firm behind him.
It is a flaw though if it happens every season or everytime some important player gets injured. Because that is what happened at Ajax. Ten Hag seems relies to much on the same players, so when one of them is injured it all falls apart. At Ajax it wasn't really a big problem, seeing they usually still won the matches, even if it was just barely. But here it could be a bigger problem.
 

Teja

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When a progressive manager does join a new team unused to a progressive style of play, shocking losses do pop up here and there. Let's see what happens going forward, unfortunately, Liverpool aren't the sort of team you plan to get back on track with!

We've seen teams trying to play progressively thumped 8-0 and the like, hopefully it doesn't get to that. I hope for the manager's sake and the team's confidence we can get a couple of wins on the bounce from somewhere fast
Yep I was bracing myself for this but the Brentford result was really shocking.

Before the season started I assumed we'd get a draw against Brighton, win against Brentford and loss against Pool and thought that would get the media sharpening their knives but this is just really bad.

At this point we really need a result against Pool or it's possible our players just give up like they did under Ralf.
 

OmarUnited4ever

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This is diabolical.
My god, these journalists will criticize Ten Hag if he expounds and talks to much (stop talking and show us what you can do as a coach) and when he doesn't talk much (he has no personality!) feck em'| I would not listen to that tripe

She way too clueless to be a journalist!!!
 

BluesJr

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She’s the worst journalist by a million miles. Why is she even in a job?
 

SouthMancRed

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It also indicates they may have done this behind ETH’s back which I consider to be an undermining of ETH. As a manager myself I’d be pretty pissed if my team did this.
That was my take on it, 'going directly to the board' therefore ignoring the usual lines of communication. No mention of the captain being part of it. As you say it undermines the manager and also adds to the split dressing room stories if true. If these guys think their teammates aren't good enough to play with them then they should at least start performing like they're a level above, not below.
 

VidaRed

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exactly. Even looking at the players.. how the fold here.. internationals who have cut it at other clubs come here and crumble. I can’t imagine the level of scrutiny and abuse they get. Not defending them but it’s something you or I don’t have to deal with. This lot are broken. It’s got to be mental at this point. No chance we don’t have a better squad than teams that are smashing us right now.
That is what fergie used to say and keane was saying last week that its one thing to have technical ability but without the correct character and temperament its hard to succeed at the top level.

Do these players have the character to play for utd ? Vast majority don't.
 

Jacko21

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That kind of guff from Alyson Rudd is so frustrating. It's lazy, predictable, agenda-driven, condescending and just generally quite rude.

Ten Hag has barely walked through the door and he's being character assassinated.
 

Tigersam

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On what fantasy planet do these clowns who lost 4:0 to Brentford, and trashed last season, are winning next Monday? I respect optimism, but that is something else
I actually think Manchester United have a chance of beating Liverpool. They are going to miss Mane this year big time, plus they are going into this game under tremendous pressure. This may sound crazy, but possibly under more pressure than United. Your team are just at the start of a re-build and although top-4 will be their target, really, top-10 is more likely. Liverpool on the other hand would have gone into this season expecting to be right in the mix for the league title, but if they lose on Monday they could be 7 points behind Arsenal and Man City and that is pretty much them out of it, before we've even got to September. Pressure can make people do strange things.

I'd be interested to know actually: at Old Trafford the manager is getting the players in for extra fitness work and behind the scenes they are chasing new players, but I wonder if the current squad are getting any help with the psychological side of things. If they can be encouraged to play without the whole weight of the world on their shoulders, which is what it looks like now, they may play better.

If true, then this is an indication of how broken the dressing room is.

Besides the fact Ronaldo is a slippery Cnut, Rashford is sh*t and Bruno has lost his way, it says to me that they think some of their team mates aren’t good enough and are vocalising it.

It also indicates they may have done this behind ETH’s back which I consider to be an undermining of ETH. As a manager myself I’d be pretty pissed if my team did this.

I wonder how many of these sentiments are present on the training pitch, mealtimes and actually during games?
I totally agree with this.

Two games were so bad that ETH's already lost more than half of his authority and credibility. What he has said is completely at odds with reality. He overestimated the squad, overestimated the Dutch league, and more importantly overestimated himself. His misjudgment is one of the root causes of the current situation, but he reacts to it by punishing players as if they were school kids. Unless he admits his mistakes and change the course, things will be out of control pretty soon.
A few things about this: I agree with what you said about the Dutch league, but I think ETH has suffered because he is working under constraints. The fact a group of players whom many people on here think are part of the problem have gone to the board to complain, tells me something: they feel pretty secure in their jobs! As volumiza says, it is totally undermining their new manager.

Why is this? Well I think there is one thing in common with Rashford, Bruno Fernades and Ronaldo and it is they have all produced good numbers (goals and assists) but in the past. Something else must have given them this 'confidence' or downright cheek, to not only go over the head of the manager, but also, I assume, leak it too, so it is known about. My guess would be this:

Rashford - he knows he is untouchable because ETH says 'he loves him' - I actually think that is the manager being pragmatic: talking up the player in the hope it can tempt PSG or someone to come in for him. Man United will certainly not want to be seen to be forcing Marcus to leave, he has an MBE! Interestingly, on MOTD on Saturday Shearer said he was convinced someone at Old Trafford had leaked the Arnautovic story, to see what the reaction (from fans) would be - and it was bad. My money would be on Rashford's team because they wouldn't want him to be replaced by, or even have to play alongside someone, with a questionable past for verbally abusing people on racial grounds.

Bruno F. - well he signed a new contract only 6 months ago so he is in a strong position, especially in these days of player power. He is also close to Ronaldo (see below).

Ronaldo - now this is the really tricky one because the player himself wanted to leave MUFC, that is common knowledge from pre-season. He wants more games and goals in the CL, to stay ahead of Lionel Messi. Unfortunately for him, there were just no takers and it looks like he is at Old Trafford for the forthcoming season. I think the manager should use him as a super-sub, but what happened when OGS tried that last year? He was criticised for it and Ronaldo was back to being one of the first names on the teamsheet. He still feels he should always be so and if you consider his record of 800+ senior goals, that is understandable, but time catches up with every player eventually.

I think there are interesting parallels between Arsenal and Man United here and let me describe a totally hypothetical scenario to illustrate my point. Imagine if once Arsene Wenger had retired he was elevated to some sort of 'consultant' or 'DOF' role at the club. He persuades one of his past players e.g. Emmanuel Adebayor (well I said hypothetical!) to come back and play for Arteta. He struggles being 38 years old, but the ties he has with Wenger means the manager is still under pressure to pick him. Furthermore, for reasons of nostalgia 'Adebayor' shirt sales are through the roof, so its not only the ex-Manager pushing for him to play, the accountants and sponsors want it too.... Would Arteta stand for that? No, he would not. So why is ETH?

Both of our clubs had amazing managers in charge for ridiculously long periods - your one had even more success than ours. Wenger struggled for the last decade & there was a clean break between him and the next manager (Emery) and Arteta is not under his influence in anyway whatsoever. But because SAF had success right up to his final season, his influence still pervades the club and he is now part of a small 'thinktank' that might be supporting Ronaldo in his power struggle with Erik Ten Hag. Now this is early days, Arsenal might have a dip & United may go on a run of wins and this post will not age well, but if you look at the league table today, well I think I have made my point.
 
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VP89

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This is diabolical.
She is so, so dim. Hes not giving a lot of words because he doesn't want to. Saying hes distanced from the players is laughable, like she thinks she knows his trainings and his methods when working with them.
 

ForeverRed1

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That is what fergie used to say and keane was saying last week that its one thing to have technical ability but without the correct character and temperament its hard to succeed at the top level.

Do these players have the character to play for utd ? Vast majority don't.
I’m struggling to think of any. Ronaldo obviously does… de Gea probably does. Varane, Bruno maybe… that’s it.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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I’m struggling to think of any. Ronaldo obviously does… de Gea probably does. Varane, Bruno maybe… that’s it.
Varane had the character to play for Real, but only a maybe for United?

Doesn't make sense. Character isn't his problem. His injury record for us and general decline is the problem.
 

NinjaZombie

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
I wonder if those same guys were stunned with Herb Brooks' methods for Team USA.

Does he even cite the coaches and scientists? If not, it's nonsensical.
 

OpenIntrovert

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Next game, ETH needs to change his formation. The 4-1-2-3 works very well if you have excellent CMs and DMs but with our attack heavy midfield (with Matic gone, we don't have any DM to play and we only have 1 CM in McTominay) its a recipe for disaster. Against a Liverpool side boasting a superior midfield, that formation is never going to work.

While its true that the players are lacking in confidence (Ole was exceptional at getting the squad to fight back in games which we are losing), ETH partly needs to take the blame for insisting on the same formation. I can understand that he wants the team to grow into his system, thus he is using the 4-1-2-3 which gives a nice balance across the entire pitch. However we don't have the proper balance in midfield, so more numbers are needed to reduce the opponent's capability to gain spaces against us. Hopefully he uses a 3-5-2 or 3-6-1 against Liverpool, until the new signings come in.
 

Hernandez - BFA

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
Ridiculous isn’t it. The Brentford players ran 13.8km more than our players that match so if they were able to run it on a hot day on Saturday, our players can add it on the next day.

Athletes on much less pay have been asked to do more running than that in worse conditions.
 

MUFC OK

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Fecking hell. There are actually people here would still complain if we beat Liverpool in our next match. Mental.
Really wouldn't surprise me. Just as bad is the culture of "I don't rate X player, therefore will take joy in being proven right" it's like some don't want them to do well at all even if it's at the expense of United.
 

Teja

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
Outrunned = across the aggregate, each individual player was outrun by ~1km. It does sound pretty brutal to have each one run 13k the day after a game as a result.

Probably a lot of the outrunning is a function of our higher possession too. The team that doesn't have the ball does have to work harder.
 

OpenIntrovert

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
Don't read any of the media articles after we lose. They revel in spreading such articles every time we have a defeat as they know that the general online fan sentiment is negative. Its quite clear from the press conferences that they rarely get anything right.
 

OpenIntrovert

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Really wouldn't surprise me. Just as bad is the culture of "I don't rate X player, therefore will take joy in being proven right" it's like some don't want them to do well at all even if it's at the expense of United.
Its really destroying the forum sentiment. There are a lot of posters who don't post because of these "fans".
 

redshaw

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Do we have a typical or average amount run by the team with ~70% possession in PL games?
 

AndySmith1990

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
Here we go again. The poor players, mean manager narrative being rolled out in the media
 

largelyworried

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Which one of the players are in this guy's ear?

To hell with sports science. You cnuts don't wanna run the miles the day after a match? Then make sure you don't get out run.

It's as simple as that. We can talk formations/systems/tactics all we want but these players are so bad that at this point, something as rudimentary as running is what's needed.
Sometimes the disciplinary angle outweighs the sports science. If he created a new rule where he made them make up the difference after every single game, I'd be worried. But as a one off, I think this throws down the gauntlet to the players in a way that's needed.
 

Nickelodeon

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Outrunned = across the aggregate, each individual player was outrun by ~1km. It does sound pretty brutal to have each one run 13k the day after a game as a result.

Probably a lot of the outrunning is a function of our higher possession too. The team that doesn't have the ball does have to work harder.
I thought this too which is why I was trying to find the running stats of City Vs Bournemouth. Any idea where I can find it?
 
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