great, I love it when opinions get refuted. Maybe it is a higher priority then!
Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager
- Thread starter sewey89
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik and Imran hold a long overdue conversation about United's awful league form with 1 win in 7. They discuss a disappointing draw at Bournemouth, a not so disappointing draw against Liverpool and a crushing defeat at Chelsea - Is time nearly over for Erik Ten Hag?
Then in a special second half of the pod, Nik welcomes Natalie ( https://twitter.com/natalie_17) to discuss the fortunes of Manchester United Women as they booked a place in the FA Cup Final after a historic first ever win vs. Chelsea.
From an outsider I like what he's been doing so far in a short amount of time.
I thought he handled the Ronaldo situation extremely well, and to me it was quite like how Arteta handled PEA last season. It shows they have balls.
Whilst I didn't agree with it at the time (despite PEA's poor form) it was certainly a move that sets the standard for culture inside the club - and as we have seen this season the positive culture and "togetherness" of the squad is an element that can really have a positive influence performances.
I thought he handled the Ronaldo situation extremely well, and to me it was quite like how Arteta handled PEA last season. It shows they have balls.
Whilst I didn't agree with it at the time (despite PEA's poor form) it was certainly a move that sets the standard for culture inside the club - and as we have seen this season the positive culture and "togetherness" of the squad is an element that can really have a positive influence performances.
Yes dude, hats off, much as it pains me to say, you guys are looking in good shape.
Yeah I really think some on here don't realize how vital Alisson has been to Liverpool success for years now.
DDG still gets credit as some monster shot stopper I guess because he'll pull some highlight saves.
Unbelievable how much good he's done in such a short space of time. He's gotten rid of the toxic atmosphere, loser mentality and sense of entitlement that Ole left behind.
He had some job on his hands picking up the pieces of that mess that Ole/Ralf left behind last season. He made some brilliant calls too, choosing not to keep Ralf on in any capacity and ridding the club of Ronaldo. Finally, a manager who has actually changed the culture at the club, and not just talked about it, while actually making things worse.
The problem I think all of us who want a new keeper ASAP have is that we also need at least 1 (if not 2) top midfielders, and of course our striker situation needs to be sorted as well.
Hopefully the ownership situation stuff can just be sorted and we can spend big on these three spots in the summer.
This is because PEA was such a fan favourite and he knew which fans he needed to get in with to have that kind of following.
During that time, it seemed alot of fans online were team PEA and against Arteta, this also had to do with Arsenal's form.
Sometimes, you have to make tough decisions for the long term future, even though it impacts the current.
That is what Arteta and ETH done, United end up with no ST, just like Arsenal last season. However; it sets standards and it shows the manager wants to build something, rather than just win right now.
The obvious next step for ETH is to start bringing in players that match his vision.
Like Arteta he's inherited several list-cloggers - Jones, McTominay, AWB, DVDB, Pereira, Lingaard, Telles, Bailly, Mata.
And some other average players - Fred, Dalot, Matic, Lindelof, Cavani, Maguire.
And talented players with poor attitudes that were a negative influence on the squad - CR7, Pogba.
The club has moved on most of them (under his direction of course), which would have accounted for a huge amount of wages per week.
And of the remainder he's helped turn Dalot into a decent RB. Whilst Lindelof, Maguire and Fred are rotation/backups that will eventually be phased out. McTominay and AWB are so poor though and really have no place playing for a club like United.
He's also helped revitalise Shaw and Rashford's careers in a short amount of time.
As a parallel, Arteta inherited list cloggers - Kolasinac, Mustafi, Sokratis, Chambers.
And average players like - Pepe, AMN, Torierra, Bellerin (never the same post ACL), Mavraponis, Willock, Mkhitaryan, Holding, El Neny, Xhaka.
And talented players with poor attitudes that were a negative influence on the squad - Guendouzi, Özil (still love him though).
It took the club a few years but they managed to move on most of that lot, and in doing so cut down a lot of the wage bill.
Of the remaining players Arteta has helped Xhaka transform into one of the top midfielders in the league this season, which has been an amazing turn-around for him. El Neny and Holding are backups that will be phased out too (and are great culture guys at least).
My point is it will likely take a few years for the squad to really take shape, both in terms of investment and instilling the game plan.
But ETH seems to have a vision, which isn't something that could really be said for Ole. He just needs to stick to his guns during the rough times.
Yeah agree.
At the time we gave PEA the huge deal I thought it was a bad idea, you just don't give players over 30 huge long-term deals on big coin, especially when they rely on pace. But PEA was a fan favourite for good reason.
He was a brilliant player for us, though he was certainly on the decline when he was moved on. But despite that I thought we would need him during the run in, even as a backup, and thought it would cost us a top four spot. And it may have in the end, but in hindsight I'm happy Arteta did it.
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Looking at it now, after its happened it just felt that PEA and Ronaldo thought, we are bigger than the club, we can do what we want and not follow the rules and standards.
I have achieved x amount at my club, the fans will support me over the manager.
Unfortunately, the board and the manager saw it differently.
I like it, we have had too many years of player power.
Second or Third was the most realistic expectation for Ten Hag this season and a trophy to get these players back balling and working hard for the team. We are seeing a style of play been implemented but unfortunately a striker and a midfielder short of properly challenging. Looking forward to next season already when Ten Hag has his first starting 11 that he wants at the club and we are still battling for four trophies.
Then you watched PL games. Have you seen a Gk that you'd think "Man, this guy is a definite improvement of DDG". Even Alisson has some dodgy goalkeepings and passes.
Ajax have just sacked their manager. Must have gone downhill.
Easily one of the best United-related channels on YouTube there is. They aren't as prolific with their postings as in the past, but every vignette elicits goosebumps from me.
I will reply to your quote here to avoid de-railing the Caceido thread.
1. We have overpaid for players in the past, other clubs have done so too. Nunez is not 100m player, Phillips isnt a 60m player, I could go on and on. The bottom line is, they spend over 200m in a window when Manutd had no CL football.
2. Right lets talk about money to spend. In 22/23, Manchester United have spent the 2nd most money 240m. Chelsea at over 400m. These lies about pretty much every other club spending more than us, where have you got this from? There are 7 clubs in the PL that have spent under 100m in 22/23. So, I advise you get your facts right first saying every other club is spending more than us but we are 2nd highest spenders this season at the moment.
Well they are businessmen, what do you expect? We have had Glazer ownership for years, this is how its been, I rather us not spend if we get a sale.
The problem I have with some fans is, they want to spend money not because of what Manchester United need or look at the situation, but want to spend money because other teams are. Well run clubs hardly spend money in January, if a club needs to spend 100m in January, it means they have failed to deliver at the start of the season.
Its actually false that spending money will help us achieve our targets. We have spent over 1bn in the years we haven't won anything. Spending money does not equal winning or getting top 4.
On top of that, if you actually dissect how Ten Hag operates, you will realise that he will want to try and get players up to speed on his way of playing, so even if we signed a player for the sake of it, he wont be ready to start for 3/4 weeks anyway.
In respects of injuries, that is applicable to literally EVERY football team in the world. If key players get injured, it reduces the chance of finishing with the objectives.
Do you know why Arsenal are top of the league? 7/11 players have played in every PL game.
Chelsea, Liverpool are struggling because of key injuries. Yet you are here crying that other clubs are spending when we are the 2nd highest spenders this season.
just came across this for the first time and thought both videos were really well done
I'm obviously talking about spending in January not the season as a whole. Did any other top club have a new manager in the summer? Did any other club have their worst ever pl finish? The context matters.
Its well reported that ETH wanted Gakpo but we didn't have the funds. Gakpo would have clearly improved our chances of achieving the seasons objectives. I want the manager to get what he wants especially when he's doing quite well.
I don't want to spend just for the sake of it but I think it's disgraceful that money is not available to the manager in his second window. And nobody is saying let's spunk a 100 million but even 25 million could get you a decent squad option or two.
It's terrible financial planning and combined with those leeches you call businessmen penny pinching and sucking us dry till the very end of course United fans can be upset. Now it's not the end of the world because we have a good manager who we trust to make things work but it's incompetence all the same.
You should go work for the Glazers.
Desert eagle said
Its well reported that ETH wanted Gakpo but we didn't have the funds. Gakpo would have clearly improved our chances of achieving the seasons objectives. I want the manager to get what he wants especially when he's doing quite well.
Not sure thus is true. ETH wanted someone who could hold the ball up and bring other forwards in the play. Gakpo is not this and never was in his PSV days. He played on the left cutting in to shoot with his right ( very similar to both Rashford and Martial). ETH was looking for a Wout type but younger and quicker. Wout was the best availabler
Its well reported that ETH wanted Gakpo but we didn't have the funds. Gakpo would have clearly improved our chances of achieving the seasons objectives. I want the manager to get what he wants especially when he's doing quite well.
Not sure thus is true. ETH wanted someone who could hold the ball up and bring other forwards in the play. Gakpo is not this and never was in his PSV days. He played on the left cutting in to shoot with his right ( very similar to both Rashford and Martial). ETH was looking for a Wout type but younger and quicker. Wout was the best availabler
We don't need squad options, we need first team players. Spending £25 gets you FA these days and spending that on 2 players gets I don't know what.
You can call it what you want but we are in the situation we are in. We haven't been successful on the pitch for a long time. We have a bloated wage bill which isn't be supported by prize money and we have a mass of debt to service every season.
The fact of the matter is that United are being sold at the moment so the current owners don't want to spend big and we also overspent in the summer by £70m+.
Its going to take a few years to stabilise the club and the new owner could either speed that up or throw it out of the window. Either way we aren't getting any new additions this window and I don't think that fans can be too frustrated at that.
Wout is a first team player is he? A loan from Burnley. Of course we need squad options especially if money is tight, that's all we can get. Now some are saying we can't even get that yet spinning it as a positive.
Wout was not the best available unless you believe there was literally nobody ETH wanted more than a loan striker from Burnley playing in turkey. He was the best available due to the financial constraints not the footballing needs. ETH has shone with Rashford and Martial this season that he is happy to play them as the striker and he would presumably done the same with Gakpo. Obviously we can never know for sure if all the paper talk was true but when so many journalists seem to agree especially the united insiders like Whitwell then i think it's a fair assumption.
We will have to disagree on this. ETH has often favoured a strong hold up type of centre forward. He used Huntelaar, Haller and Brobby a lot in his Ajax days. Gakpo is not that type. I'm not saying that Wout was his first choice but given the financial constraints he was the best choice
Yeah certain he wasn't the first choice for that sort of role,however financial constraints forced Erik's hand so will back Wout to the hilt whilst he's here
Has ETH ever said who he wanted publically?
based on what we've seen so far for him while at Pool.....he's a fuking huge waste of 40m quid
Yes, he is a first team player currently because we literally have martial and no one else and unsurprisingly Martial is injured. Wout is a loan player until the end of the season so that we have someone to lead the line. You don't build out squads with second tier players when you need players for your first XI. We have plenty of squad options if we buy first XI players. Then the current first XI players that are replaced will be squad players or compete for starting places. Buying players to sit on the bench is just a waste of money that we don't have at the moment.
For the money we are paying for him and the money we have available and the players that are available, yes, he probably is one of the best options. Who would you have gone for that didn't cost £40m+ who would be much better? As to Rashford and Martial playing up front, Rashford isn't a striker and Martial is crocked half the time at best. Gakpo also isn't a striker so we would then have Garnacho, Rashford and Gakpo all wanting to play on the left wing....and still no proper striker.
Of course there are plenty of things EtH would happily do with a large budget. He doesn't have one though and there is no point complaining about it.
I'm guessing the word rotation isn't in his vocabulary 
Yup. Hates rotation. Fair enough but when tiredness is the cause for dropped points, that goes on Ten Hag and is something he'll learn to change in time. Undoubtedly a mistake though to not rotate, pretty much ever.
Yeah apparently some Ajax fans said that was the case a while back. I never learn though in the lineups game.I'm guessing the word rotation isn't in his vocabulary
We haven't seen much since that opening Europa League defeat to Sociedad,maybe that experience has put him off multiple changesI'm guessing the word rotation isn't in his vocabulary
Yeah know we haven't the squad depth of a City but still needs to be rotation in these cup games
He doesn't have a budget at all. Only loan signings which is less than most other teams in the league. That is embarrassing levels of incompetence and worth complaining about.
The point is that Garnacho, Pellistri, Fred and McTominay are more than good enough to beat fecking reading.
I remember reading this on reddit. Didn't think it was going to be to this extent though. Hopefully it works out
He does not rotate his midfield that much which is understandable, I wouldn't want to see McFred combo for example, or any combo that includes McTominay unless we have no other choices.
I expect 2nd half he would take off Cas, Rashford, Antony & Eriksen if we are comfortable by then.
I expect 2nd half he would take off Cas, Rashford, Antony & Eriksen if we are comfortable by then.
Would have liked Garnacho to start this game and given Marcus some rest. Other than that maybe would have rested one of Bruno/ Eriksen and played Fred instead.
This is exactly what Ajax fans warned us about right?
About the lack of quotation, there was this quote in the press conference thread:
Other than that, Ten Hag might also feel like these games are a good way to further bed Weghorst into the attack. If Weghorst were playing today with a couple of back-up attackers and a back-up midfield, his interaction with his first-choice team mates wouldn't improve, and it might have been a bit of a lost opportunity.
A lot of hypothesis of course; but I would suggest it makes sense to try and see this from Ten Hag's perspective. Someone as methodical as him probably has better arguments against such a well-established practice like rotation than 'nah, screw that'.
This might indicate why he doesn't like to do a lot of rotation. It appears that, in his experience, players always enjoy playing the games, so he might see it as a way to keep his first-teamers sharp and motivated. He might feel they need that more than a rest. I would also assume his training regime is adapted accordingly, but I haven't seen him talk about that.
Other than that, Ten Hag might also feel like these games are a good way to further bed Weghorst into the attack. If Weghorst were playing today with a couple of back-up attackers and a back-up midfield, his interaction with his first-choice team mates wouldn't improve, and it might have been a bit of a lost opportunity.
A lot of hypothesis of course; but I would suggest it makes sense to try and see this from Ten Hag's perspective. Someone as methodical as him probably has better arguments against such a well-established practice like rotation than 'nah, screw that'.
He obviously doesn’t want to take risk and he wants all trophies so he’s going for a strong team. Think he’ll rotate against forest.