Erling Haaland / signs for Dortmund

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SteveW

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I said he was excellent at youth level (which is what got him first team chances), you called him 'shit' so I assumed you expected a Giggs like talent from a youth player in his first season who hasn't even had a loan yet. It was you who moaned and called him 'shit. You also have predicted Chelsea's future signings too by saying they won't go for Haaland and Sancho without giving logic.

Here's the logic: Sancho will be wanted by all clubs including Chelsea and will choose the best (not United right now. Chelsea need a replacement for Giroud and have money from Hazard hence Haaland. Now why they will likely get them is because they can offer them first team football while being in a better state than us. We could get Haaland but logic dictates he would choose somewhere else.

Is that illogical to you? Or would you rather live in imagination land where everyone wants to sign for us and we are the best club ever and aren't now a midtable team?

All my post was about is that we need target players like Olmo and 2 others that we could sign for the price of one Haaland or Sancho so that we can can get to a consistent position that the likes of Sancho become reasonable targets again. Also in my endless positivity I believe that maybe Olmo will turn out to be a better player than Sancho;
I don't think Chong will make it here. It's not an attack on him. It's just an opinion based on over 20 years watching the academy/reserve teams. I don't think he's anything special. I've seen far better players fail. Perhaps calling him shit was a little blunt. I've nothing against the lad.

I didn't predict anything. I just said there is no point in throwing toys around based on pure speculation. Chelsea could well be out of the CL after their next game. I see no reason why a young Norweigan striker wouldn't pick us over them. With Martials injuries he'd likely get more games here than at Chelsea. Not overly fussed about Sancho personally either. We need midfielders and a striker much more. James and Greenwood are plenty options for right wing.

I agree that we need to strengthen the midfield. I haven't seen Olmo play but I'd imagine the scouts are working overtime to find good gettable midfielders. Ole isn't a fool as much as people like to pretend he is.
 

RedBanker

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Awesome idea. Let's get a Twilight years veteran on 300k a week while Mason matures. Hopefully you wont moan if it's another Sanchez esque mistake and Mason doesn't turn out to be a top striker. I thought we were moving away from this mentality and targeting young, hungry players before they become world class?

It's sheer romanticism to assume Mason can make that step up.
I never said anything about Greenwood.

I said we need guaranteed goals. You need to get your eyes checked. Especially if you think Lewandowski is a Sanchez.
 

Bobcat

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No moaning at all just reality of our current situation. If Haaland has a choice of us or Chelsea then he'd be a fool to come here.

You know nothing of who Chelsea will sign either. Also Sancho will have his choice of all clubs and Haaland [robably the same. Barca will be looking for a Suarez replacement soon. that's just logic.

Chong has been excellent and continues to be at youth level so he ain't a lost cause. The real moaning is yours about a player who has just started his senior career without a suitable loan. Reality check: Morrisson really was the best underage talent this club has seen (probably along with Giggs) but he became jack shit. ie: the best talents can turn out shit and the likes of Chong can become something.

Gomes will move on unless we give him the opportunities, he has seen what caf darling Sancho has done and Pogba before that. Why would he logically stay?

O'Connor is a better talent than Dalot and injured much less. It was acceptable to let him go because Laird is here but in our current situation he is more than good enough to make it.

You also have no idea of what Chlesea will do so it's a moot point. They may or may not bid for them but logic points towards them doing so.

You really need to stop thinking about the 'Old' United and start thinking about us as the mid table side we are. Thinking we can't get the Haalands of the World isn't 'moaning' it's being realistic. We aren't a top team anymore but a mid table side. Would you be surprised if I told you that AC Milan can't buy Sancho? They are a much better historic side than us.

You talk about 'moaning' but I am one who still wants Ole here over even Poch (what a caf idiot I am), I see improvements in us that I haven't seen previously (on balance of play we should be at least 9 points better off this season). I simply want us to start acting like a team who needs to get from 6th to 3rd rather than straight to first (it's unrealistic). So stop wasting time on players that have better options and will choose them if smart and focus on 'lesser' talents who are cheaper and might well reach the top level anyway. Mane is the best player in the League right now for example and he was no 'Mmbape' was he was 18,
But as long as we have Ole managing us we still are favorites to get his signature. Ole was the one who discovered him and brought him to Molde when he was 16. Haaland loves Ole and has praised him numerous times for how he helped him develop and says he owes much of his career to him. Ole is also good friends with his father (who was spotted at Carrington) and his agent.link

Players joining different clubs because of personal connections happen all the time.
 

TheReligion

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No moaning at all just reality of our current situation. If Haaland has a choice of us or Chelsea then he'd be a fool to come here.

You know nothing of who Chelsea will sign either. Also Sancho will have his choice of all clubs and Haaland [robably the same. Barca will be looking for a Suarez replacement soon. that's just logic.

Chong has been excellent and continues to be at youth level so he ain't a lost cause. The real moaning is yours about a player who has just started his senior career without a suitable loan. Reality check: Morrisson really was the best underage talent this club has seen (probably along with Giggs) but he became jack shit. ie: the best talents can turn out shit and the likes of Chong can become something.

Gomes will move on unless we give him the opportunities, he has seen what caf darling Sancho has done and Pogba before that. Why would he logically stay?

O'Connor is a better talent than Dalot and injured much less. It was acceptable to let him go because Laird is here but in our current situation he is more than good enough to make it.

You also have no idea of what Chlesea will do so it's a moot point. They may or may not bid for them but logic points towards them doing so.

You really need to stop thinking about the 'Old' United and start thinking about us as the mid table side we are. Thinking we can't get the Haalands of the World isn't 'moaning' it's being realistic. We aren't a top team anymore but a mid table side. Would you be surprised if I told you that AC Milan can't buy Sancho? They are a much better historic side than us.

You talk about 'moaning' but I am one who still wants Ole here over even Poch (what a caf idiot I am), I see improvements in us that I haven't seen previously (on balance of play we should be at least 9 points better off this season). I simply want us to start acting like a team who needs to get from 6th to 3rd rather than straight to first (it's unrealistic). So stop wasting time on players that have better options and will choose them if smart and focus on 'lesser' talents who are cheaper and might well reach the top level anyway. Mane is the best player in the League right now for example and he was no 'Mmbape' was he was 18,
Why?
 

El-Manos

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Not great but has shown enough at underage that suggests a loan rather than losing him would be the best option. The further we fall the harder it is to attract the players we need and now the need to find those players early is incredibly important. We will probably miss out on Sancho and Haaland so we need to push for players like Olmo and Tonali early who could become as good or at least get us in a position to challenge for the Haalands of the World again. We need to bite the bullet and stop targeting Sancho right now and use that money to buy 3 players who'll get us back regularly in top 4 and then we can aim higher. We are a mid table team trying to get back to number 1 instead of accepting our situation and climbing gradually.

For instance getting to the 3rd best team in England right now is manageable by next season with the right cheap enough signings. Getting to 1st-2nd is basically impossible. However easier to build a 1st place team from 3rd rather than 6th,

I do think we could get Haaland because we can offer playing time but if I were him I'd go to Chelsea or Leicester right now if possible.
I don't disagree with any of that. It would be nice to unearth our own little gem though, I've been extremely disappointed with our scouts over the years.
 

golden_blunder

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You've no idea who Chelsea will or will not sign.

Chong is crap.
Gomes could still sign the contract.
O'Connor is a decent player but I don't see him ever being good enough for our first team. Too small for CB and not in the same class as AWB or Laird for RB.

A lot of moaning here without much substance.
Agree with that. Always found Chong overrated on here. There have been others before him who have been better and moved on. I won’t bat an eyelid if he leaves
 

troylocker

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Ah come on. He's doesn't have Ibra's skill levels. That's guys touch was insane.
I agree 19 year old Zlatan was more technical and had more tricks up his sleeve, but Haaland beats him on everything else. Zlatan lacked a lot of end product early in his career, even though he scored the occasional worldie now and then. Speed, power, finishing, movement, positioning, decisions is among the qualities Haaland has a lot more of at this age. The only thing they really have in common is that they are freakishly tall Scandies about to explode into the international football scene.
 

troylocker

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I said he was excellent at youth level (which is what got him first team chances), you called him 'shit' so I assumed you expected a Giggs like talent from a youth player in his first season who hasn't even had a loan yet. It was you who moaned and called him 'shit. You also have predicted Chelsea's future signings too by saying they won't go for Haaland and Sancho without giving logic.

Here's the logic: Sancho will be wanted by all clubs including Chelsea and will choose the best (not United right now. Chelsea need a replacement for Giroud and have money from Hazard hence Haaland. Now why they will likely get them is because they can offer them first team football while being in a better state than us. We could get Haaland but logic dictates he would choose somewhere else.

Is that illogical to you? Or would you rather live in imagination land where everyone wants to sign for us and we are the best club ever and aren't now a midtable team?

All my post was about is that we need target players like Olmo and 2 others that we could sign for the price of one Haaland or Sancho so that we can can get to a consistent position that the likes of Sancho become reasonable targets again. Also in my endless positivity I believe that maybe Olmo will turn out to be a better player than Sancho;
In my opinion we are, along with maybe Leipzig and Dortmund, the best option for him. It would surprise me a lot if he chose a place like Chelsea, where they already have a young similar type of player. He would be competing for one spot in the team with Abraham and Batshuai, and Frank would struggle to give him the minutes he wants.
Here we can offer at least a rotation role from the minute he sign the contract, in a young team with his former coach (who he has the greatest respect for) as manager. The current league table doesn’t mean shit. We are the third biggest club in the world, and wether you want to see it or not, going here would show the ambition of a winner.
 

Skåre Willoch

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In my opinion we are, along with maybe Leipzig and Dortmund, the best option for him. It would surprise me a lot if he chose a place like Chelsea, where they already have a young similar type of player. He would be competing for one spot in the team with Abraham and Batshuai, and Frank would struggle to give him the minutes he wants.
Here we can offer at least a rotation role from the minute he sign the contract, in a young team with his former coach (who he has the greatest respect for) as manager. The current league table doesn’t mean shit. We are the third biggest club in the world, and wether you want to see it or not, going here would show the ambition of a winner.
Good post.

I'm tired of the doomsday merchants saying "he would never come here" about every player on the market.

Being the face of Manchester United when(if) we regain our glory is probably the most lucrative and ambitious career move a young player can aim for.
 

lysglimt

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I don¨t think people should underestimate the importance of having a manager you know and trust, especially as a young player.
 

Dante

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Good post.

I'm tired of the doomsday merchants saying "he would never come here" about every player on the market.

Being the face of Manchester United when(if) we regain our glory is probably the most lucrative and ambitious career move a young player can aim for.
Very true. Imagine being the Cantona of the 2020s.
 

Adam-Utd

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Chelsea already have their own young home made striker. They won't be going for Haaland.

Sancho yes, but Haaland makes more sense.

Anyway, if you weighted up the pros/cons we'd come out on top of Chelsea every time apart from potential CL football.

The sense of doom and gloom around some fans is a bit silly sometimes.
 

711

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Good post.

I'm tired of the doomsday merchants saying "he would never come here" about every player on the market.

Being the face of Manchester United when(if) we regain our glory is probably the most lucrative and ambitious career move a young player can aim for.
And as soon as someone does come it will be 'they'll go to Real soon'. I don't know what pleasure some people get out of following us. That's following, not supporting.
 

Tom Cato

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Haaland got the physique of Zlatan and top speed of a freight train, combined with world class finishing
I said he was excellent at youth level (which is what got him first team chances), you called him 'shit' so I assumed you expected a Giggs like talent from a youth player in his first season who hasn't even had a loan yet. It was you who moaned and called him 'shit. You also have predicted Chelsea's future signings too by saying they won't go for Haaland and Sancho without giving logic.

Here's the logic: Sancho will be wanted by all clubs including Chelsea and will choose the best (not United right now. Chelsea need a replacement for Giroud and have money from Hazard hence Haaland. Now why they will likely get them is because they can offer them first team football while being in a better state than us. We could get Haaland but logic dictates he would choose somewhere else.

Is that illogical to you? Or would you rather live in imagination land where everyone wants to sign for us and we are the best club ever and aren't now a midtable team?

All my post was about is that we need target players like Olmo and 2 others that we could sign for the price of one Haaland or Sancho so that we can can get to a consistent position that the likes of Sancho become reasonable targets again. Also in my endless positivity I believe that maybe Olmo will turn out to be a better player than Sancho;
This entire logic train is a bit of a hasty generalization (one of the fundamental properties of logical fallacies). And since I think that word reeks a bit of r/iamverysmart, I'll stop saying it.

Chelsea could in 2 weeks time be in exactly our spot: Europa League if they lose or draw against Lille (but in fairness, they are favorites in that game).

What you're doing is making a lot of assumptions. Mainly attributing champion league football to whether or not we can sign anyone. We are 15 games into the season, it's not done yet. We are in a far less shocking state than you seem to imply.

Football players are motivated by a variation of factors of varying importance to the individual: Money, Professional Opportunities (league titles, tournaments), Development, Game Time and least importantly: What team. (hubris)

Money trumps nearly all. The kicker is of course that the biggest clubs can offer the biggest salaries, which goes hand in hand with professional opportunities. Usually teams in this category can offer both.

Game time: For a teenager or early 20s player, this one gets trickier. Do you go to Real Madrid, or do you go to Leicester? Most players go to Real Madrid obviously, because even without Game Time, you have Money and Professional Opportunities. Some players care about their status in the footballing world in the term of how they are represented, others care strictly about their Development and Game Time

Erling Haaland, a mere year ago, chose to go to RB Salzburg over Juventus - He opted out of Money, Professional Opportunities, What Team to prioritize Development and Game Time. - Norwegian come from a very modest economical background compared to foreign teams. Our big national teams can't afford to buy players that even cost £5 million - In fact, the most expensive player in our domestic league cost around £2,3 million. Money is NOT a part of our sporting culture, whereas Professional Opportunities, Game Time and Development is everything. In English football, teenagers earn bank if they sign a professional contract compared to our youth, the mindset is entirely different. Development is definitely better, but you also have players refusing to sign contracts at a young age because they are not paid enough. In Norway we almost never have that situation arise, players sign reasonable low income contracts all the time compared to our international counterparts. I bring this up because Haaland is not someone who is going to be tempted by money. He will go for Professional Opportunities, Game Time and Development.

You should not underestimate the importance of a player knowing the manager of a club on a friendly level. OGS and Haaland are family friends, they remain in touch to this day. Alf Inge Haaland (his dad) has already been to visit Carrington a few weeks ago. He's also been to visit RB Leipzig.

What Chelsea can offer that MUFC can't, is "maybe CL football" - No manager connection, same Development, same Game Time. - Effectively, they will never even enter the contest for the player if he' being bought in January.

Jadon Sancho, same thing, but the added mix of Money. Unfortunately, we are rather famous for giving away monster contracts. IF Jadon is bought, it will be our financial muscles that tip the scale, not our league position.

From my point of view there are 4 things that can happen to Haaland:

1) MUFC buys him outright in January
2) RB Leipzig offers the release clause money, same as MUFC. The player chooses Leipzig for developing in the Bundesliga
3) Dortmund offers the release clause money, same as MUFC and Leipzig. The player chooses Dortmund for developing in the Bundesliga. Dortmund have a excellent track record of developing megastars.
4) RB Leipzig beats Liverpool in the upcoming CL game - MUFC offers the release clause money - Loans Haaland back to RB Salzburg to see out his CL campaign and season in Austria. The club does this to secure the players signature, rather than risk losing him in the summer transfer mayhem.

Jadon Sancho: I want the player, but I don't think he' a big priority at the club right now.
 

Tom Cato

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Haaland scored again today. Took him 9 minutes. Lets see what todays goal tally gets up to
 

Godfather

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Scored again
 

.mica

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There is a good chance that we will get him.
 

.mica

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Makes sense for him and us. Dortmund would be a good logical next step. While we desperatly need a second striker and can offer the money and the opportunities to play for him in the next level
 

charlenefan

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Makes sense for him and us. Dortmund would be a good logical next step. While we desperatly need a second striker and can offer the money and the opportunities to play for him in the next level
Why does it make sense for him? If he goes to Germany what makes sense is a move to RB Leipzig not Dortmund
 

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Ah right, thanks. I'm sure you're right but my mind's now going on what the tax implications of all that might be. Still, having already displayed my ignorance I might be better staying out of it!
Taxes are a thing to consider here, because there are two taxable transaction to be made. First the club has to pay money to the player which is a taxable payment and second the payment the player has to make to the club is taxable as well. That's why there are often a lot of shady third party deals going on, usually in form of a law firm or a lawyer, which also seems to a legal way of paying that fee without the double taxation but I'm not 100% how that exactly works.

Is that how it is everywhere, or just Spain? I know that's the process in Spain.
I have to admit I'm not 100% sure about that but as far as I know buyout clauses are always between a club and the player and not two clubs, because it's part of the contract of the player, but of course it might be possible that the contract simply says "If a club deposits sum X I'm free to negotiate a contract with them."

That being said, are we sure there even is something like a buy out clause? Seems a bit too convenient that this is popping up just now that everyone seems to be interested in the kid.
 

Strelok

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There is a good chance that we will get him.
I don't think so.

If the rumors about his 20 €m release clause is true then loads of top team will be interested.

He's a Leeds supporter, his father got a history with us, we probably won't have CL football, we have two very promising young forwards, we won't be chasing for top silverwares for a couple years more at least. While Real, Barca, City, Bayern, PSG all need a new striker to replace their aging ones.

It'd be a big surprise for me if he'd sign for us.
 

Bobcat

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I don't think so.

If the rumors about his 20 €m release clause is true then loads of top team will be interested.

He's a Leeds supporter, his father got a history with us, we probably won't have CL football, we have two very promising young forwards, we won't be chasing for top silverwares for a couple years more at least. While Real, Barca, City, Bayern, PSG all need a new striker to replace their aging ones.

It'd be a big surprise for me if he'd sign for us.
Meanwhile, speaking back in September, Haaland hailed Solskjaer for the role the United manager played in his development.

"He has had a huge impact on my life, both as a person and as a trainer. He won the Champions League and was an incredibly good player. He has taught me a lot. I have dreamed of playing for the best clubs in the world my whole life, and I especially like English football."

Haaland was born in Leeds and lived his early years there. His father also spent most of his career playing in the Prem, so he has a special connection to the league. Ole also has a good connection with the player himself, his father and his agent.

Honestly i would say we are big favorites in getting his signature
 

Strelok

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Meanwhile, speaking back in September, Haaland hailed Solskjaer for the role the United manager played in his development.

"He has had a huge impact on my life, both as a person and as a trainer. He won the Champions League and was an incredibly good player. He has taught me a lot. I have dreamed of playing for the best clubs in the world my whole life, and I especially like English football."

Haaland was born in Leeds and lived his early years there. His father also spent most of his career playing in the Prem, so he has a special connection to the league. Ole also has a good connection with the player himself, his father and his agent.

Honestly i would say we are big favorites in getting his signature
Honestly against all the odds I've quoted down if he'd sign for us then imho we should give Ole some really really big thanks :)
 
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charlenefan

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Tuesday will be the first time I watch the lad play, looking forward to it :)
 

Rozay

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Taxes are a thing to consider here, because there are two taxable transaction to be made. First the club has to pay money to the player which is a taxable payment and second the payment the player has to make to the club is taxable as well. That's why there are often a lot of shady third party deals going on, usually in form of a law firm or a lawyer, which also seems to a legal way of paying that fee without the double taxation but I'm not 100% how that exactly works.



I have to admit I'm not 100% sure about that but as far as I know buyout clauses are always between a club and the player and not two clubs, because it's part of the contract of the player, but of course it might be possible that the contract simply says "If a club deposits sum X I'm free to negotiate a contract with them."

That being said, are we sure there even is something like a buy out clause? Seems a bit too convenient that this is popping up just now that everyone seems to be interested in the kid.
Surely this release clause tax thing is a bit of an internet myth? It’s been done several times, and no club in their right mind would transfer £100m into a footballer, who is not contracted to them’s, bank account. It’s obviously not the way it works.

Also, I’m very sceptical that even if they did transfer it to his account, and he then moved it on the his club 20 mins later, he would be taxed on it anyway. Surely everyone knows what his job is, it is not ‘income’, there is no invoice, he is not the employee of the buying club and has rendered no services. Would be difficult to claim that is ‘taxable income’.
 

RedDevilRoshi

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I mentioned in the Martial performance thread that I’d be very intrigued to see Anthony play in a front two.

I think him and Haaland could form a formidable partnership together. Both of them would be absolutely deadly up top together.
 

Vidyoyo

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Let's be honest, it'd be much more sensible for him to go to Dortmund and then move on for higher wages in 3 years time.
 

Sanche7

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I mentioned in the Martial performance thread that I’d be very intrigued to see Anthony play in a front two.

I think him and Haaland could form a formidable partnership together. Both of them would be absolutely deadly up top together.
Agree. I've always felt that Martial will be a much better player in a 2 striker formation.
 
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