Ernesto Valverde

Niemans

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The club should be clear about how the team should play and sign players and coaches accordingly.
It is not serious to try to sign the first one who is free. It can't be that you signed Moyes, then Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.
And now Conte, Ten Hag or Zidane, each with a different style.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Our board seem to run on iterative learning and being scared of making the same mistake twice. Sacked Moyes but didn’t give him enough time. Start giving managers too much time. Brought in Jose for instant success. Turned to Ole for his ‘plan’. Hired Ole after some success as caretaker manager. You’d imagine they won’t do the same again.

Put that all together and they’re now taking their time to find a manager who can instil a philosophy and they’ll give him enough time to do so.

One can dream.
Literally learning on the job
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Considering the permanent managers we want - Ten Hag, Pochettino and Rodgers all use a high press, why not get an interim that can allow the players get used to playing a high press to shorten the adaptation period when we get the permanent manager.

Then again getting a pragmatic interim coach seems reasonable. If we get an interim that likes a high press style, will the players buy into such a demanding philosphy knowing the coach will be gone soon?
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Considering the permanent managers we want - Ten Hag, Pochettino and Rodgers all use a high press, why not get an interim that can allow the players get used to playing a high press to shorten the adaptation period when we get the permanent manager.

Then again getting a pragmatic interim coach seems reasonable. If we get an interim that likes a high press style, will the players buy into such a demanding philosphy knowing the coach will be gone soon?
If we wanted to play high press, we wouldn't have bought Ronaldo. If Ronaldo is around for the rest of the year and the money's been spent, then actually a more defensive manager is suited until the end of the season.
 

lifted

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Considering the permanent managers we want - Ten Hag, Pochettino and Rodgers all use a high press, why not get an interim that can allow the players get used to playing a high press to shorten the adaptation period when we get the permanent manager.

Then again getting a pragmatic interim coach seems reasonable. If we get an interim that likes a high press style, will the players buy into such a demanding philosphy knowing the coach will be gone soon?
I'd be content with a coach who gets our defensive organisation and shape sorted. That's the platform upon which a style can be built upon.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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"The main gripe was with Valverde's style of play: pragmatic, overly cautious and extremely reliant on individual brilliance" - Ole V2.0?
Barcelona won the league by 14 and 11 points. Does Ole win La Liga two years in a row? I don't think so.
 

Chaky_Best

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Would take him for this interim role.

At least, he's a coach with a philosophy and style of play, things that we don't have.

Nevertheless, I am not sure we have the players that suits him, but I think that fresh ideas are welcomed at the moment.
 

jamesjimmybyrondean

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Would take him for this interim role.

At least, he's a coach with a philosophy and style of play, things that we don't have.

Nevertheless, I am not sure we have the players that suits him, but I think that fresh ideas are welcomed at the moment.
At this point is there a coach we have the players that suit them
 

macheda14

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Was just watching the Tifo football analysis on Valverde.
Some things seem slightly alarming, but ignoring those his approach to pressing [timestamped above] is something that excites me in terms of his suitability for this squad. Suarez didn't press hard, he would block the defender's passing lanes to one specific side of the pitch so that the team had fewer players to focus on pressing. This is something that Ronaldo can do in his current state. Have Ronaldo focus the passing lanes over to say the left hand side and the players around him press with high energy.

He also set up the team to protect Iniesta's slowing down but still take advantage of his skillset - he's pragmatic but his teams still score goals. He would be a perfect manager to steady the ship for us if we can't get Poch or ETH during this season.

I mean in his first season Barcelona were 1 game from going unbeaten.

Yes there were those two absolute meltdowns in the CL. But as far as interim managers go, he's no slouch. A lot of Barca fans say he's been hard done by, he wasn't nearly as bad as people think because of those meltdowns. Since him they have realised that he played such pragmatic football because of the shape of the squad. They said he should have left at the end of 18-19 following the Liverpool disaster, but actually started the next season pretty well and was unfairly sacked after the game against Atletico where they lost 3-2 after having 2 goals disallowed, one very unfairly. A fair few say they probably still would have won the league that season. Now look where they are.
 

tjb

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I would be very happy with him coming in - in the interim. Who knows maybe he’ll actually do superbly. If not, I don’t think he’ll fecking butcher us, either. It’s a win-win appointment for me.
Exactly. Plus I think that Barca job is similar to the PSG one in being a poisoned chalice. They system, style of play and players coming to the squad are generally not picked by the manager. He's also dominated greek football and been to Europe finals.
Barca fans were saying he was cautious, but he almost went unbeaten with his Barca team. Barca are a team that want to play a specific type of football and almost force all their coaches to adapt to that reality. This meant, even with all his wins, he wasn't really given a fair assessment as a coach. He's a manager thag prefers to used a 4231/442 variation, which helps his pressing style. He was also trying to accommodate for the fact that messing defensive work on the flanks left them exposed. He's the manager that truly had to deal with the Bartomeu Era, so I believe based on the success he has had, his wealth of experience and the fact that he has faced a worse situation than Tuchel and Poch are/ have faced at PSG with Barca, he deserves a shot. If he impresses us, who knows, he may get the job full time. Unlike Ole's interim period, this is the type of manager you take that risk with.
 

JPRouve

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Exactly. Plus I think that Barca job is similar to the PSG one in being a poisoned chalice. They system, style of play and players coming to the squad are generally not picked by the manager. He's also dominated greek football and been to Europe finals.
Barca fans were saying he was cautious, but he almost went unbeaten with his Barca team. Barca are a team that want to play a specific type of football and almost force all their coaches to adapt to that reality. This meant, even with all his wins, he wasn't really given a fair assessment as a coach. He's a manager thag prefers to used a 4231/442 variation, which helps his pressing style. He was also trying to accommodate for the fact that messing defensive work on the flanks left them exposed. He's the manager that truly had to deal with the Bartomeu Era, so I believe based on the success he has had, his wealth of experience and the fact that he has faced a worse situation than Tuchel and Poch are/ have faced at PSG with Barca, he deserves a shot. If he impresses us, who knows, he may get the job full time. Unlike Ole's interim period, this is the type of manager you take that risk with.
That applies to almost all clubs on the continent. The same applies at Ajax and it's not really seen as a poisoned chalice also neither impose players on coaches.
 

Chaky_Best

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At this point is there a coach we have the players that suit them
I think that this idea of us having an unbalanced team is not totally right. I think we have, in theory a very balanced team and and except a defensive midfielder, we have specialist in each position.

I'd say that we need to have a coach that can make the players playing together.

We can press, we can defend deep, we can't counter attack. We can't play football, but to me it's more down to the coach and what he provides (confidence) to the players
 

largelyworried

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I think we need to be realistic about where we are. Last night's half decent performance aside, we're in a really horrendous run and our aim is to stabilise before we do anything else. Certainly it would be better to get our perm manager in right place now, but even if we did, they would have to stabilise things first too before building. Neither Poch nor Ten Hag will turn us round quickly. Even the bastard son of Arrigo Sacchi and Shaft wouldn't have us blitzing teams in a week.

Under Ole we had three years of structure and coaching being treated as second class citizens, with directness and individual moments being preferred. A few months under a manager who tries to focus on shape, defending and at least a bit of attacking sophistication will be no bad thing while we wait for a permanent appointment.
 

Oranges038

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Barcelona won the league by 14 and 11 points. Does Ole win La Liga two years in a row? I don't think so.
Given that it's a two team league and Barca had just won 5 out of 8 league titles and racked up on 90 points every season for 10 years.

He might have.
 

tomaldinho1

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Our board seem to run on iterative learning and being scared of making the same mistake twice. Sacked Moyes but didn’t give him enough time. Start giving managers too much time. Brought in Jose for instant success. Turned to Ole for his ‘plan’. Hired Ole after some success as caretaker manager. You’d imagine they won’t do the same again.

Put that all together and they’re now taking their time to find a manager who can instil a philosophy and they’ll give him enough time to do so.

One can dream.
You have to alleviate some of the Moyes culpability from the board because SAF essentially chose him, I don't think he should have had more time, he simply should never have got the job. Jose was the biggest error they have made, a panic hire and, as you say, purely because we wanted silverware we put a man in charge whose tactical identity goes against everything we hold dear...then Ole was just as bad (not him personally) because it continued the scattergun approach and added a 4th manager post SAF who was never right, too old or unqualified.

If Valverde came here, there's nothing to say he'd last the season. Interim is a great way to go if there aren't good candidates around - this squad needs tactical direction, we don't really need more players...if someone can come in, put a basic system in place and teach us how to retain the ball, it'll be great. It's either that or you go all out for a high press guru and Ragnick isn't a very good coach (and isn't interested), Rose is taken now, Hasenhuttl people probably don't think is good enough, we'd never go for Bielsa...that's really all I want to see, a system forming and then an identity coming with it. Obviously in an ideal world you find a coach who can teach pressing and attacking possession based football but that isn't happening.
 

tjb

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That applies to almost all clubs on the continent. The same applies at Ajax and it's not really seen as a poisoned chalice also neither impose players on coaches.
It does not. Ajax don't sack their manager for not winning the UCL. Valverde had similar levels of success as Ten Häag has at Ajax, we don't compare it because the size and standard of the league matters. In addition, the Barca board we were all exposed to this year is what Valverde had to silently deal with for years. Again, I repeat, he won two league titles despite that. He had to deal with the same issues that Tuchel and Poch are being excused for at PSG.

Always remember there was a time our fans wanted Frank De Boer for similar feats with Ajax. AVB was wanted from Porto because he dominated that league too. There's a different between performing well in a smaller league and doing it in the bigger leagues; people need to remember that and not judge manager who have been sacked at top clubs so harshly.
 

devilish

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And it's a different team. Ole wasn't pragmatic he was limited, Valverde is one of those coaches that does what suits his teams.
You seem to rate him highly. What do you expect from him? I am referring to tactics and game strategy
 

VanHaal'sRedArmy

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Get Rangnick in. We did direction in our footballing operations and of all the names touted he's the one with previous experience in that area.
 

Gandalf

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Get Rangnick in. We did direction in our footballing operations and of all the names touted he's the one with previous experience in that area.
Problem is that he currently has a job so I cannot see him being willing to move for an interim position. I know he is seen as a coaching genius by some but the truth is he did not actually have all that much success as a Manager so much as he developed a style of play that his disciples have evolved into a winning formula. He would be a poor fit full time and that is probably the only way we get him.
 

Oranges038

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In 2013 Moyes took over United who had won 5/7 titles.
Totally different scenario.

Barca change up the manager every 3/4 years, they also play in a league where only 2 teams realistically ever expect to win it.
 

JPRouve

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It does not. Ajax don't sack their manager for not winning the UCL. Valverde had similar levels of success as Ten Häag has at Ajax, we don't compare it because the size and standard of the league matters. In addition, the Barca board we were all exposed to this year is what Valverde had to silently deal with for years. Again, I repeat, he won two league titles despite that. He had to deal with the same issues that Tuchel and Poch are being excused for at PSG.

Always remember there was a time our fans wanted Frank De Boer for similar feats with Ajax. AVB was wanted from Porto because he dominated that league too. There's a different between performing well in a smaller league and doing it in the bigger leagues; people need to remember that and not judge manager who have been sacked at top clubs so harshly.
The part that I quoted was about players not being picked by the manager, at no point you talk about being sacked for not winning the CL.
 

JPRouve

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You seem to rate him highly. What do you expect from him? I am referring to tactics and game strategy
I don't rate him highly, he is just a good manager. And I don't know what to expect, he is pragmatic, so outside of discipline I don't know where he would lean. Think about him as your typical italian manager, you know the type.
 

Rash Decision

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I don't rate him highly, he is just a good manager. And I don't know what to expect, he is pragmatic, so outside of discipline I don't know where he would lean. Think about him as your typical italian manager, you know the type.
I only did some cursory reading on him but yeah I did see the main criticisms being his lack of style and over reliance on Messi and Ter Stegen. If true my expectation would be to see our football continue to look drab and individualistic, but more competent than we have seen under Ole. That said there was a self-proclaimed Barca fan on Reddit who claimed that he’s tactically “amazing”.
 

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Given that it's a two team league and Barca had just won 5 out of 8 league titles and racked up on 90 points every season for 10 years.

He might have.
Ahhh, the two team league that was literally won by a third team less than a year ago.
 

OTRightWinger07

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i think he is just another juan de ramos.

someone who had his moments in laliga but flopped in premier league because of the physical, intensity of the english game
 

JPRouve

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I only did some cursory reading on him but yeah I did see the main criticisms being his lack of style and over reliance on Messi and Ter Stegen. If true my expectation would be to see our football continue to look drab and individualistic, but more competent than we have seen under Ole. That said there was a self-proclaimed Barca fan on Reddit who claimed that he’s tactically “amazing”.
They had a style which was the be tight and give the ball to skilled players quickly which of course led to a Messi-Suarez reliance. But it's fair to mention that Barcelona clearly lacked players with enough physical and technical abilties to play a more expensive style, Setien tried it and it was a disaster because this Barcelona team could only play at a slower tempo and couldn't play a physical game.
 

Rash Decision

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They had a style which was the be tight and give the ball to skilled players quickly which of course led to a Messi-Suarez reliance. But it's fair to mention that Barcelona clearly lacked players with enough physical and technical abilties to play a more expensive style, Setien tried it and it was a disaster because this Barcelona team could only play at a slower tempo and couldn't play a physical game.
Thanks for the insight. Would you say the same constraints apply to us as well? And any idea if he could play an expansive style if he had the players needed?
 

JPRouve

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Thanks for the insight. Would you say the same constraints apply to us as well? And any idea if he could play an expansive style if he had the players needed?
Honestly, I don't know.
 

GazTheLegend

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So the English league is a two team league too, right?
It would be if oil money hadn't gotten involved, to play devils advocate. Look at the league runners up even since Alex Ferguson left us - we'd have had 2 more titles and Liverpool a couple.
 

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I suppose it is not very popular but he would be my first option (without considering Luis Enrique), already before appearing as a candidate.
I have always liked him a lot despite the debacles in champions and his game. He seems to be a very solid coach. Maybe in other circumstances I would choose another but in the current ones I think he would do it well.
 

GMoore23

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The club should be clear about how the team should play and sign players and coaches accordingly.
It is not serious to try to sign the first one who is free. It can't be that you signed Moyes, then Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole.
And now Conte, Ten Hag or Zidane, each with a different style.
Mourinho and Oles tactics were very similar.