ESPN: Man United want evolution, not revolution under Erik ten Hag - sources

Hoof The Ball

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Ten Hag needs to sign players with the right pedigree. He's gonna have to take a sledgehammer to this current team.
Ten Hag's first team-talk

Ten Hag: "Alright boys. It's time to play the game.......Time to play the game! Hahaha!"

(Squad looks quizzical at this odd show of eccentricity)

Ten Hag: "Now listen. It's all about the game, and how you play it. It's all about control and if you can take it."

Shaw: "What about the chips after the game?"

Ten Hag: "I AM the game and you don't want to play me, Luke."
 

Chesterlestreet

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Well, I hope our players aren't quite as terrible and/or uncoachable as some seem to think. Because (nevermind the ESPN article, which should be treated with due skepticism) we obviously can't just replace them all in a single window. Certain players that have been completely written off by us - the fans - will undoubtedly be given a chance under ETH.

Obvious point to make: it's difficult to systematically train a group of players, implementing a new system, while at the same time scrapping for points. What Ralf has been doing with these players isn't comparable to what ETH will do, with a proper pre-season and whatnot.
 

dubplate warrior

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Laurie Whitwell said United at a minimum will sign 2 midfielders and a striker. If possible they'll also look to sign a right winger and a centre back.

Its quite incredible to hear that we're likely to give DDG a new contract after also giving Bruno a new contract. For all the talk of a style of play, and players having the right profile to fit this, we're managing to balls it up before the new manager has even begun his post.

Darren Fletcher really needn't be at the club, we have someone far more qualified to take his role.
 

AndySmith1990

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Couldn't agree more. Will be a disaster of a season. But that's fine as long as ETH is backed. Give him the time to work.
Just look at the Rangnick thread. If next season is a disaster there will be at least a minority of fans ripping Ten Hag to pieces.
 

Stobzilla

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Ten Hag's first team-talk

Ten Hag: "Alright boys. It's time to play the game.......Time to play the game! Hahaha!"

(Squad looks quizzical at this odd show of eccentricity)

Ten Hag: "Now listen. It's all about the game, and how you play it. It's all about control and if you can take it."

Shaw: "What about the chips after the game?"

Ten Hag: "I AM the game and you don't want to play me, Luke."
I mean, well done for typing it and hitting post reply.
 

DomesticTadpole

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The Wan-Bissaka signing makes no sense if there was any thought given to one day being something other than a counter attacking team. Clearly there wasn't, which is the story of the last 10 years. Man Utd has never been going in any direction, hence why so many of the players we have picked up just don't fit together.

Wan-Bissaka could have and should have gotten better than he is. If I were him I'd be doing 1 on 1 work with a coach just in terms of aerial positioning on crosses, judging the flight of balls into the channel and also how to overlap and hit a cross on the run. Maybe has has been doing all of that in his free time? However, it was always clear that he was never going to be what a 'front foot' football team needed. So to scout 800 right backs and decide he was the one needs some real explaining. Especially at the cost of £50m. Its the equivalent of signing Andy Carroll and expecting him to drop off and play as a false #9. There are some things that, even at their optimal levels, certain players can't do e.g., Fred and/or McTominay playing as #6s.

The problems we have today are entirely the result of poor planning. Nothing suggests that will change just cos we've got Ten Hag. Hope I'm wrong.
You do wonder how much players practice on their weaknesses to improve. I have said it for years. Ronaldo practiced, Beckham practiced. It is how ambitious you are, what is driving you. They wanted to be the best. Some see being the best as what you are paid. We pay high wages for hitting the wrong targets. You get the best wages for winning things, you get good wages for assists and goals or clean sheets.
 

nav_10

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Can't see Kurt Angle with his airpods staying on our coaching team. He's always been on the wrong side of evolution.... :nervous:
 

Ali Dia

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If we get Mitchell, keep Ralf and have ETH on the same page quickly I reckon there will be some bargain signings they were lining up for their previous clubs that we can jump in on. That’s a hell of a lot of knowledge about working on a much smaller budget right there. Don’t despair muppets. There are bargains out there. It’s just can they get a tune out of the players the board force them to keep around. That’s the main issue
 

SungSam7

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I couldnt care less aslong as ETH gets atleast 3-4 players that he feels are needed. No more galactico signings, it can be easily done by spending 40mill roughly on each player that fits the system he wants.

Then gradually increase the money spent on players when we see the progress over the next few windows. BUT, he needs to be backed and chooses who comes in, none of this buying a player because he is marketable.
 

Someone

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I'm convinced we'll sign more than 3 with all the outgoings, but it won't be a revolution agree, club isn't bold enough
It's not about being bold really. No club is capable of replacing 10 players in one window. It was always going to be gradual progression, and getting 3 or 4 good players in would be a great window.
 

Jibbs

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150 million is a lot of money if spent wisely. Let’s say get Tchouameni for 60 m. Get Kamara free or if he really wants Frankie, get him in exchange deal. Get one of Raphinha or Antony for around 40. Get Nunez for around 80 and generate funds through sales.
 

DomesticTadpole

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It's not about being bold really. No club is capable of replacing 10 players in one window. It was always going to be gradual progression, and getting 3 or 4 good players in would be a great window.
There is not time to sign 10 players, that is when it gets rushed and not enough thought process goes into it. You get two or three of what you want, the negotiations took ages so then sign anybody who available just to get bodies in and keep the fan base happy. It is a recipe for disaster. We need to do some thinking for a change.
 

SATA

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Weird for me that the club is looking to offload Wan Bissaka. He’s a good defender who can still improve his general play. Gary Nevill wasn’t a complete right back until he was 26-27. We should be looking to sell Dalot first, he’s absolutely abysmal
 

romufc

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Obviously its not possible to change the whole team, it has to be an evolution.

The club probably feel they have spent so much money on players, they need to get something out of them.

I think ETH can get something out of Fred, Shaw, Dalot, Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno Elanga and the like. He needs to add CB, CM x 2, ST to go into the first team.
 

RedRonaldo

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The "3 players" number is never really just 3 players. Usually 3 starter types. We have a decent budget for changes and it ultimately depends on who stays or goes. It makes sense number wise because our squad is overly bloated right now though.

You take out all those likely or realistically going to leave and our squad is still:

De Gea, Heaton
AWB, Dalot
Maguire, Varane, Lindelof
Shaw, Telles
McTominay, Fred, Van de Beek
Bruno
Sancho, Rashford, Elanga
Ronaldo

Youth players who might be part of the squad: Mengi, Garner, Hannibal, Shoretire, Garnacho

Expecting/assuming will leave in some way (loan or sell), but likely all won't:
  • Henderson
  • Jones
  • Bailly
  • Tuanzebe
  • Laird
  • Williams
  • Matic
  • Pogba
  • Mata
  • Pereira
  • Lingard
  • Cavani
  • Martial
  • Chong
  • Greenwood
That's 17 players in the first team, up to 5 youth players who might have a role (likely just Hannibal and Garner so let's say 19 first team players), and then signing 5 players makes that a 24 man squad. The likely 5 players being a backup goalkeeper like Johnstone on a free, 1 being a squad player/development guy like Timber, and the other 3 being starters (ST/RW/DM).
Well we are fecked aren't we. Everyone know this squad is hopeless and need massive changes, but we will start the change with 3 players, and retain the majority of the large pile of shite we have, who managed +2 goal difference in the league, as compared to +63 goal difference from Liverpool, for next season.
 

salfordlad

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We are not getting more than 3 established players and maybe 1-2 on loan.

What the feck do you think this is, Fifa? For ETH to be backed with a shit ton of players in a window he needs to be Klopp or Guardiola.

Jeez this forum has become an utter disgrace. You lot and your Fifa brains wouls give ETH 300mil and let him spend on whoever he wants just because he won a few titles and got to a UCL semifinal with Ajax?

All of you complaining at this are just begging for the club to do the same mistakes they did with Ole and Mourinho by allowing them to spend left, right and center.

Some of you lads really do not understand what the issues are at this club or you're just blinded by the Glazer hate or poor results in the last 10 years.

For once this club is doing what is needed to do and you still moan, moan and moan again.

I'll also say it from a different point of view : Everyone and their dog knows we will buy players. Getting more than 3-4 in a single window is suicide in terms of overpaying and stupid agent fees.

Wake the feck up. It"s amazing that Ralf saying we need 10 players(with no timeline on that) and now this "perfectly placed" article started the Redcafe moan, like you're some sort of kids or something. You're being controlled by social media like hungry rats.
A voice of reason...
 

RedRonaldo

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But surely we'll need more than 3 new players if the plan is to ship out 10. The squad is already short on depth in terms of ability, reducing our numbers by 7 shortens it further still.

Unless we have no intention of shipping out 10 players.
Maybe no one wants to buy those 10 players from us, as some of them are in very high wages.
 

bosnian_red

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Well are fecked aren't we. Everyone know this squad is hopeless and need massive changes, but we will start the change with 3 players, and retain the majority of the large pile of shite we have, who managed +2 goal difference in the league, as compared to +63 goal difference from Liverpool, for next season.
You're being dramatic. We could have a window of:
  • Antony
  • Tchiuameni
  • Darwin
  • Timber
  • Johnstone
And that would do wonders for our team. Or swap Antony and Tchouameni to Kamara and Frenkie De Jong. We don't know how it'll shake up yet. We have a good sized budget to make the changes we need for year 1 of Ten Hag. We are never going on make the change in 1 window. We start with this, and then year 2 make the next stage of changes (fullbacks and goalkeeper IMO).
 

elmo

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150 million is a lot of money if spent wisely. Let’s say get Tchouameni for 60 m. Get Kamara free or if he really wants Frankie, get him in exchange deal. Get one of Raphinha or Antony for around 40. Get Nunez for around 80 and generate funds through sales.
Once we get involved, fees double immediately for those we want to buy.
 

Cassidy

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It's not about being bold really. No club is capable of replacing 10 players in one window. It was always going to be gradual progression, and getting 3 or 4 good players in would be a great window.
We don't need to sign 10 players, we could sign prob 5/6 and replace others with youth and players returning from loan for this coming season
 

NewUser777

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Exactly. Ten Haag need to continue where the two latter let of. One brick at the time.. We can’t shift that many players at once and bring in what we need.
 

Andrew7582

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Weird for me that the club is looking to offload Wan Bissaka. He’s a good defender who can still improve his general play. Gary Nevill wasn’t a complete right back until he was 26-27. We should be looking to sell Dalot first, he’s absolutely abysmal
He's always going to be shit technically. Klopp didn't waste his time trying to transform the dross at Liverpool, he moved them on.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Exactly. Ten Haag need to continue where the two latter let of. One brick at the time.. We can’t shift that many players at once and bring in what we need.
We shouldn't bonkers and sell everyone but a possession based manager taking over a counter attacking team cannot just continue what is left by his predecessor. Changing a style needs some major rework.
 

Ali Dia

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I couldnt care less aslong as ETH gets atleast 3-4 players that he feels are needed. No more galactico signings, it can be easily done by spending 40mill roughly on each player that fits the system he wants.

Then gradually increase the money spent on players when we see the progress over the next few windows. BUT, he needs to be backed and chooses who comes in, none of this buying a player because he is marketable.
As @Rozay said earlier about Rashford. His hands may truly be tied on stuff like his new deal or I may add having to accommodate Ronaldo for another season etc. How can you expect a manager to do something different when you’re leaving/forcing him to utilise the same flawed materials? Manager needs major say over who gets cut. If they dont work hard enough for the system surely that should be enough.
 

Plant0x84

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Before Rangnick came in, the mantra on this forum was that the players only needed coaching.

The squad isn't that bad. It just lost direction early in the season and two different managers couldn't drag it back. Hopefully, third time's a charm.

Imo, we don't need a massive clearout beyond the players who were going to leave anyway. There'll still be enough talent here to challenge for 4th place. A handful of additional signings will cement that.
You’re right, and I think the biggest advantage ETH has is a free summer to rest players and plan for the season ahead, no Euros or WC.
 

Maticmaker

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"The time has come the Walrus said to talk of many things, of shoes- and ships- and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings... and of Manchester United signing a top class DM***!! (apologies to Lewis Carroll).

***If this doesn't happen then whatever ETH does it will be... simply re-arranging the decks chairs on the titanic...once again!
 

Sarni

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150 million is a lot of money if spent wisely. Let’s say get Tchouameni for 60 m. Get Kamara free or if he really wants Frankie, get him in exchange deal. Get one of Raphinha or Antony for around 40. Get Nunez for around 80 and generate funds through sales.
You can’t get Raphinha or Antony for £40m. More like £60m.

If £200m budget that has been speculated is true then it’s a lot of money if invested properly. We just can’t go after the most expensive talent like Rice etc and spend £80m+ on one player if we want to address the squad issues.
 

RedRonaldo

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If this is the reality we have to face, then we have to choose wisely which player to sign.

Out for free: Pogba, Lingard, Cavani, Mata, Matic, Greenwood

Budget: 100m-150m (3 new players, 50m each)

Players sales to raise more fund:
Bailly - 15m
Jones - free
Martial -25m, but not likely to find any suitor due to wage/poor form, so probably loan
Telles - 15m
AWB - 25m
Henderson - loan

Possible/likely fund raise - 55m (can buy another player)

Possible budget after player's sales: 155-205m (4 new players)

DM/CM - Tchouameni or De Jong 60m
FW - Nkunku 55m
RW - Antony 50m
CB/RB - Timber 40m
 

Luffy

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He needs a coach whose proficient in Parseltongue in order to control the snakes in the dressing room.
 

Speako

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Honestly, right now, just give me a team of players I want to support. That will do for starters.
 

caid

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I'd quite like Wan Bisakka to evolve into Cafu. Its not going to happen though and would be idiotic to make turning him into cafu my plan.
Theres no evolving this team
 

yumtum

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What needs to happen is 95% of first team players in this squad should be put on gardening leave until they find a new club, they're not fit for purpose and they'll poison everything - may as well make the team up from youngsters, players coming back from loan (not Martial) and free transfer, coupled with a few signings.

De Gea
Laird
Varane
Torres
Grimaldo

Kamara
Garner
Tchouameni

Sancho
Ronaldo
Fernandes

Bench: Belotti, Mejbri, Elanga, Amad, Fred, Johnstone, Lindelöf.

Free transfers:
Kamara
Belotti
Johnstone

Purchases:
Grimaldo - €30m
Torres - €60m
Tchouameni - €70m

Total = €160m

Sales:

Henderson - €25m
Rashford - €50m
Mctominay - €15m
AWB - €15m
Dalot - €10m
Martial - €10m
Telles - €7m
Bailly - €8m
Shaw - €10m
Maguire - €3.50

Total = €150m (+€3.50 if we manage to get it).

Could probably transform the disaster of a dressing room for little "net spend" if we pull our fingers out, and if we sell the dross for that little most clubs would bite.

Unfortunately the higher ups will think they're selling too cheap and will want to protect their value - then the cycle will repeat.

Eth will be sacked within his 3 year contract because these same players will buckle under the pressure again and would much prefer to throw another manager under the bus than win things.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Obviously its not possible to change the whole team, it has to be an evolution.

The club probably feel they have spent so much money on players, they need to get something out of them.

I think ETH can get something out of Fred, Shaw, Dalot, Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno Elanga and the like. He needs to add CB, CM x 2, ST to go into the first team.
The problem is we can’t afford a CB 2xCM and a striker in 1 window as that would likly be over 200 million and we don’t really have any players that are sellable assets (most of the players leaving will do so on a free, players like martial & Henderson will only get loan moves cos of there wages, or injury history and wages (Bailey) and other players we might want to sell have no value (like Jones).

Personly think it’s unlikely we will sign a centre back this summer. I suspect we will get a striker, DM and then one offer player probably a utility player and that will be it.
 

JuriM

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Everyone fishing for news, as Manchester United and Erik Ten Hag guarantees you clicks and people reacting. Not a story.
 

Coops73

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Nothing new, the board and owners are a joke and the club will not change until the Glazers and their cronies are gone.
Careful there you’re going to get the usual, But…but…they’ve spent x amount from the usual suspects in here when THEY’VE spent feck all.

Same shit different season I fear, but we’ll see.
 

Orange Tree

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Seems about right. Would be around the same amount we spend every season.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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Obviously its not possible to change the whole team, it has to be an evolution.

The club probably feel they have spent so much money on players, they need to get something out of them.

I think ETH can get something out of Fred, Shaw, Dalot, Varane, Ronaldo, Bruno Elanga and the like. He needs to add CB, CM x 2, ST to go into the first team.
Which is the issue. If the club had spent £1,000,0000 on quality that was underperforming then fine but a number of the squad simply are not good enough. In the short term you can’t gut the whole squad like Football Manager but forcing any manager to get the tune out of poor players isn’t fair.

There’s some improvement to come from the players but I honestly don’t see anyone in this squad being integral to a successful United side/squad. He’ll turn some players round but just look at City & Liverpool’s squad; they’re completely different to the ones each manager took over. If we go on to compete & win things they’ll be very few of todays squad around to do so.