Ethan Laird

Bastian

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I think eventually Laird will bench him due to having a superior allround game even under Ole. Under a new manager like Rose or Nagelsmann, I don't see AWB getting the nod over a talent like Laird. AWB will either have to be moulded into a new position or will become deadwood IMO within 18 months due to his limitations as a fullback.
Easy now. AWB is still young and can definitely add to his game. He is already one of, if not the best tackler in the league, has a superb engine and is fast. He needs to develop his positional sense and his attacking game.

Also, you killed my Nagelsmann dream (saying he was invested in the Leipzig job and then off to Bayern) so you can't keep that dream alive Adnan!
 

DarkRed

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You don't need to predict the future to see that AWB is a very limited fullback that would struggle to make the bench at top clubs.
Please don't forget that AWB was a winger for not so long a ago, he has an attacking side to his game, what he lucks is probably a mindset or/and managerial approval, for god sake he was tasked to play a CB this season.
There is also Dalot at that position that have to be passed by, who looks physically superior to the both of Laird and AWB but not yet found his rithm at that level.
 

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He's 22 years old and has 53 EPL games to his name. Who do you want there instead Young, Laird or Dalot;

https://www.redcafe.net/match-day/#season-stats the guy is fourth is on the caf's ratings board - that's the caf's

Rashford has 5.4 our leading goal scorer.

Half the team struggles to make the bench at a top club, in fact name five RB's in the EPL that you'd have over him?
Five RBs I'd take over Wan Bissaka from the EPL would be Trent Arnold, Max Aarons, Ricardo Pereira, Matt Doherty and Kyle Walker. And the reason being is that they're better going forward in comparison to AWB. The modern game has moved on and fullbacks need to be adept in contributing in the final third. You either go with the flow or get left behind. There's many more fullbacks around Europe who I'd take over Wan Bissaka too.

The Caf ratings shouldn't be used as a metric here. I remember Pogba being really low down on the ratings even when he was playing extremely well.

Half the team didn't cost a world record fee for their position(s). So are judged accordingly.
 

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Five RBs I'd take over Wan Bissaka from the EPL would be Trent Arnold, Max Aarons, Ricardo Pereira, Matt Doherty and Kyle Walker. And the reason being is that they're better going forward in comparison to AWB. The modern game has moved on and fullbacks need to be adept in contributing in the final third. You either go with the flow or get left behind. There's many more fullbacks around Europe who I'd take over Wan Bissaka too.

The Caf ratings shouldn't be used as a metric here. I remember Pogba being really low down on the ratings even when he was playing extremely well.

Half the team didn't cost a world record fee for their position(s). So are judged accordingly.
Reece James instead of Matt Doherty.

Given that we are parking the bus and countering each game with no interest in keeping possession, AWB is the best fit among all EPL right backs. The slight problem with the formation is that it will not take us far in the long run, and under the current manager not short term either.
 

AltiUn

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It’s no secret I’m a huge admirer of Laird but have to say that’s as good a debut as he could have asked for. I’ve said it before but it wouldn’t shock me if he ended up locking down RB, for me he’s the second most talented kid at the academy behind Greenwood alongside Gomes. With their attacking ability I think he and Williams will shine in the modern era.
 

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Easy now. AWB is still young and can definitely add to his game. He is already one of, if not the best tackler in the league, has a superb engine and is fast. He needs to develop his positional sense and his attacking game.

Also, you killed my Nagelsmann dream (saying he was invested in the Leipzig job and then off to Bayern) so you can't keep that dream alive Adnan!
Wan Bissaka isn't naturally gifted in the attacking sense, like say a Kimmich, Atal, Ferland Mendy, Kostermann etc, which is clear to see IMO. The role of the fullback requires much more than just being able to defend in the modern game so I feel we should've targeted someone like a Lukas Kostermann who at 23 is comfortably better than AWB due to his allround game and would've been cheaper.

Nagelsmann might still be tempted to join us and fall in love with Manchester.:yawn:
 

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Reece James instead of Matt Doherty.

Given that we are parking the bus and countering each game with no interest in keeping possession, AWB is the best fit among all EPL right backs. The slight problem with the formation is that it will not take us far in the long run, and under the current manager not short term either.
Reece James I haven't seen alot of due to him being at Wigan last season but have read rave reviews so will keep a close eye on his progress. His sister Lauren is also a superb talent.

I agree with the rest of your post and believe Laird will hopefully step up and be the longterm solution at RB due to his skillset for the modern game. Just hope he can stay injury free because the lads a baller and someone that will excite the crowd
 

roonster09

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It’s no secret I’m a huge admirer of Laird but have to say that’s as good a debut as he could have asked for. I’ve said it before but it wouldn’t shock me if he ended up locking down RB, for me he’s the second most talented kid at the academy behind Greenwood alongside Gomes. With their attacking ability I think he and Williams will shine in the modern era.
Yeah, I remember reading he is Greenwood of RB, meaning as good a talent as Greenwood.

@jb8521 used to post the stats regularly and it was very impressive for a FB.

 

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Please don't forget that AWB was a winger for not so long a ago, he has an attacking side to his game, what he lucks is probably a mindset or/and managerial approval, for god sake he was tasked to play a CB this season.
There is also Dalot at that position that have to be passed by, who looks physically superior to the both of Laird and AWB but not yet found his rithm at that level.
He was a very poor winger and didn't even impress at Cambridge United tbh. He's a very good defender though but i'm not convinced he's gonna be great at fullback longterm due the requirements for a fullback in the modern game.

Dalot does have potential but his defensive game needs to improve which is very possible. Physically he's a strong lad but I don't believe he has a advantage over either AWB or Laird in that regard.
 

roonster09

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He scored 22 goals from LB a few years back.
Yeah Howson said that but couldn't find any other source to verify that. I think he said by december he scored 20+ goals.
 

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He was a very poor winger and didn't even impress at Cambridge United tbh. He's a very good defender though but i'm not convinced he's gonna be great at fullback longterm due the requirements for a fullback in the modern game.

Dalot does have potential but his defensive game needs to improve which is very possible. Physically he's a strong lad but I don't believe he has a advantage over either AWB or Laird in that regard.
I just think that he is been so defensive because he was ordered to, not because he can't do it. Looks to me that we attack one full back at a time, and when Williams or Young is playing, they will be the one going forward as this is the safest version.
With Shaw coming back we will see AWB going forward again.
 

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It is not a problem when he stays back, but when he is in position in final third, his natural reacting is not to drive forward and pass/cross/enterthebox, but to stop and pass back or sideways. And even when he cross, it is not that good. Not sure why is that, as he was winger once, he has pace and can dribble, is strong, so he should not be afraid of challenging. On the other hand, common issue from our full backs is that they are slow with crosses and when in position they backtrack. Sometimes it is cause our forwards are nowhere close to the box, and they have no one to aim, but sometimes they have and they pass back. Not sure why.
 

AltiUn

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It is not a problem when he stays back, but when he is in position in final third, his natural reacting is not to drive forward and pass/cross/enterthebox, but to stop and pass back or sideways. And even when he cross, it is not that good. Not sure why is that, as he was winger once, he has pace and can dribble, is strong, so he should not be afraid of challenging. On the other hand, common issue from our full backs is that they are slow with crosses and when in position they backtrack. Sometimes it is cause our forwards are nowhere close to the box, and they have no one to aim, but sometimes they have and they pass back. Not sure why.
You sure you’re in the right thread? Laird’s go to move is to beat his man then either look for the cross or the cut back.
 

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It is not like Laird suddenly improved. It was obvious that Laird and Greenwood were the standout players from a technical and physical perspective among the youth players. Given that we already had Dalot and the more promising and modern player in Laird, the decision to buy AWB compared to a more experienced and cheaper fullback makes less and less sense.
 

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It is not like Laird suddenly improved. It was obvious that Laird and Greenwood were the standout players from a technical and physical perspective among the youth players. Given that we already had Dalot and the more promising and modern player in Laird, the decision to buy AWB compared to a more experienced and cheaper fullback makes less and less sense.
I suggested in another thread that it would've been better to keep Smalling and sign Milenkovic from Fiorentina who is a CB but can also play at RB. Such a move would've seen Laird gradually integrated into the team as a understudy to Milenkovic and the money saved from the AWB and Maguire deals could've been spent on the midfield which in turn would've seen a much more balanced team. And at the end of the season Smalling could've been moved on if Ole chose to do so and Milenkovic ready to take over as the main CB.
 

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I suggested in another thread that it would've been better to keep Smalling and sign Milenkovic from Fiorentina who is a CB but can also play at RB. Such a move would've seen Laird gradually integrated into the team as a understudy to Milenkovic and the money saved from the AWB and Maguire deals could've been spent on the midfield which in turn would've seen a much more balanced team. And at the end of the season Smalling could've been moved on if Ole chose to do so and Milenkovic ready to take over as the main CB.
Yes, but as we already know now, Ole is a bit slow, things everybody can see takes him some more time to take notice of, like the Giraffe joke...
 

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It is very exciting that we have two very young and promising attacking RB’s. AWB was an important and intelligent buy because a) he provides a measure of defensive security from the off, which is important to build confidence in the team. If Dalot or Laird develops as hoped, we’ll not lose out on having two good RB’s, nor will we lise money on AWB.
 

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It is very exciting that we have two very young and promising attacking RB’s. AWB was an important and intelligent buy because a) he provides a measure of defensive security from the off, which is important to build confidence in the team. If Dalot or Laird develops as hoped, we’ll not lose out on having two good RB’s, nor will we lise money on AWB.
Don’t leave us hanging for point B!
 

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I suggested in another thread that it would've been better to keep Smalling and sign Milenkovic from Fiorentina who is a CB but can also play at RB. Such a move would've seen Laird gradually integrated into the team as an understudy to Milenkovic and the money saved from the AWB and Maguire deals could've been spent on the midfield which in turn would've seen a much more balanced team. And at the end of the season Smalling could've been moved on if Ole chose to do so and Milenkovic ready to take over as the main CB.
I wanted Meunier in the summer. UTD fan, professional, good in attack and decent defensively. Ake should have been signed as a centre back during the summer. Will go to Chelsea when the ban is lifted...
Not sold on Milenkovic. Not seen enough matches of him to give a verdict yet so cannot say if he is good or bad, but would rather have gone from him instead of Maguire regardless.
 

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Wow AWB being thrown under the bus already? Let's have some context to the discussion, the RB people are suggesting are better and clearly playing in better teams with attacking minded managers and players that have been given the permission to get forward. That's not us at this moment in time, when it is you might be able to better assess whether AWB is that guy.....
 

Fosu-Mens

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Wow AWB being thrown under the bus already? Let's have some context to the discussion, the RB people are suggesting are better and clearly playing in better teams with attacking minded managers and players that have been given the permission to get forward. That's not us at this moment in time, when it is you might be able to better assess whether AWB is that guy.....
I agree that with the way we play now AWB is the best alternative based on his defensive abilities. The only issue is that if we are going to become competitive in the future then we most likely must implement a more possession-based and technical dependent attacking style of play. This is a type of football not really compatible with having a fullback that is a defensive specialist. He could develop his offensive abilities over time, but then again how many of the players in the first team have improved over the last 3 years? Especially in abilities relevant when the team is on the ball or attacking against a balanced defence?
 

Litch

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I agree that with the way we play now AWB is the best alternative based on his defensive abilities. The only issue is that if we are going to become competitive in the future then we most likely must implement a more possession-based and technical dependent attacking style of play. This is a type of football not really compatible with having a fullback that is a defensive specialist. He could develop his offensive abilities over time, but then again how many of the players in the first team have improved over the last 3 years? Especially in abilities relevant when the team is on the ball or attacking against a balanced defence?
I think it's hard for me to truly comment when in principle there's no pattern or style of play. All I can see is a steady decline of even the new players signed. What you have raised might be right but it's hard to comment when there's there is no foundation to make an assessment on.
 

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To me there is no discussion - Bissaka is by far our best right back. He was one of the best tackler last season, and he is going to be one of the best tacklers again, when this season is over, if he doesn't get injured. He has to improve, when he attacks, but defensive he is already top class, and he is still very young and will probably get better and better the next many seasons.
We have only seen Laird playing in one first team match, and that was against a very poor team. I would like to see, how Laird reacts, when he comes up against better teams in the PL. Teams that will put him under pressure over and over again. He did fine against Astana, but there is still a long way to go, before he is in the same class as Bissaka.
 
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Adnan

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Wow AWB being thrown under the bus already? Let's have some context to the discussion, the RB people are suggesting are better and clearly playing in better teams with attacking minded managers and players that have been given the permission to get forward. That's not us at this moment in time, when it is you might be able to better assess whether AWB is that guy.....
You don't need to be playing in better teams to display your attacking prowess at fullback, Aarons at Norwich, Atal from Nice, Doherty from Wolves are all superior to AWB in that respect and are playing for inferior teams. We've seen Wan Bissaka at Palace, with England at u21 level and currently at United with the same questions/conclusions being asked or drawn.
 

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AWB is excellent and will improve. Laird is a fantastic prospect. The position may be sorted for 10 years. Happy days.
 

roonster09

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AWB is excellent and will improve. Laird is a fantastic prospect. The position may be sorted for 10 years. Happy days.
Exactly. Laird is a big talent but you never know how they transition to first team.If he makes the jump and plays like he does for youth team then we would be superb position with 2 excellent RBs pushing each other. If he fails to make the jump then we have AWB who is proven at this level.
 

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I'd send Dalot on loan and promote Laird to second choice RB to be honest, or convert Dalot to a backup RW because he's actually quite good in the final third.
 

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I'd send Dalot on loan and promote Laird to second choice RB to be honest, or convert Dalot to a backup RW because he's actually quite good in the final third.
If Dalot is good in final third (to be clear I don’t think he is), Brandon Williams is phenomenal in final third.

People questioning AWB’s signing are crazy, if Laird is better than him, he can eventually replace him, but we severely needed AWB because all the senior FB’s we had were Young, Shaw and Dalot. None of them should be starting for us, if we want to be in top 10, let alone top 4.

Of course arguably we should’ve gone for more offensive RB, but I think our full-backs could look much better paired with better, more technical wingers and midfielders.

Having different options like Laird and Williams is great, if they’re better than Young and Shaw, there’s no point in loaning them out, they should get plenty of minutes here. Then again there were people here who wanted to loan out Rashford quite recently.
 

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Thought he was good in the 2nd half, but first half played very within himself.

He knew he had the beating of the LB for pace, so it made it pretty easy for him to just breeze passed. I'd want to see more of him against a better athlete, he certainly won't get passed a PL left back that easily.
 

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Thought he was good in the 2nd half, but first half played very within himself.

He knew he had the beating of the LB for pace, so it made it pretty easy for him to just breeze passed. I'd want to see more of him against a better athlete, he certainly won't get passed a PL left back that easily.
I'd fancy his chances against 6'7" Dan Burn @ Brighton ;)
 

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He isn't as slow as you'd think. Sometimes long legs means long stride!
It's nothing to do with pace, Ethan can beat his man on the outside, and inside, and a guy that tall and so one-footed would have a few 'timber' moments if Ethan got a head of steam up against him, he'd probably try going through his legs as well ;)
 

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Thought he was good in the 2nd half, but first half played very within himself.

He knew he had the beating of the LB for pace, so it made it pretty easy for him to just breeze passed. I'd want to see more of him against a better athlete, he certainly won't get passed a PL left back that easily.
Modern fullback play isn't just about beating the opposing fullback. It's about exploiting space, linking up with the attack and generally providing a outlet on the flank which opens up space for our forward players. That's something that has been missing since Evra or even Rafael departed and Laird has all that in his locker already.
 

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Modern fullback play isn't just about beating the opposing fullback. It's about exploiting space, linking up with the attack and generally providing a outlet on the flank which opens up space for our forward players. That's something that has been missing since Evra or even Rafael departed and Laird has all that in his locker already.
I know how good he is potentially, but i'm just saying he won't get passed people that easily, that regularly IMO.

Lots of people on Redcafe probably watched these kids for the first time on Thursday - they're probably expecting Laird to beat EVERYBODY on the outside easily from now on. Just saying let's be patient as you need more than just speed.
 

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Modern fullback play isn't just about beating the opposing fullback. It's about exploiting space, linking up with the attack and generally providing a outlet on the flank which opens up space for our forward players. That's something that has been missing since Evra or even Rafael departed and Laird has all that in his locker already.
I think the best full-backs have always done that. Still got a feeling that despite preferring playing right-back he will in time become a central-defender and a top one at that.
 

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I know how good he is potentially, but i'm just saying he won't get passed people that easily, that regularly IMO.

Lots of people on Redcafe probably watched these kids for the first time on Thursday - they're probably expecting Laird to beat EVERYBODY on the outside easily from now on. Just saying let's be patient as you need more than just speed.
That's true, and at his age he'll have his ups/downs but i'm hoping he can be a part of the squad ahead of Ashley Young at some point in the current season because the inclusion of Williams in the squad has given Laird a real lift.