Ethiopian plane crash another 737 Max 8 - Boeing grounds the fleet | 10th March 2019

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Ramshock, Mar 10, 2019.

  1. Apr 28, 2019

    berbatrick Full Member Scout

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    https://www.omaha.com/money/wall-st...cle_900d74a1-c7b3-5ba1-b76b-d58101640c2b.html

  2. May 6, 2019

    George Owen LEAVE THE SFW THREAD ALONE!!1!

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  3. Jun 18, 2019

    Il Prete Rosso Prete, the Italian Pete

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  4. Jun 18, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    Actually...

    At air shows, cumulative orders from the past year are announced. Given the bad publicity, it's understandable that Boeing would refrain from popping the champagne with airlines while announcing orders that were signed in January.

    Fact remains that Boeing remains a major player in the narrowbody market because Airbus and Embraer alone won't suffice to fill the demand, they all have years long backlogs.
  5. Jun 18, 2019

    unchanged_lineup Tarheel Tech Wizard

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    Wow though. I used to teach lots of Airbus folks and they always talked about stuff like this.
  6. Jun 18, 2019

    11101 Full Member

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    It's both. Lots of orders are worked on in the months leading up to Paris or Farnborough ready for signing at the event. Day one is hardly the end of the world but if there's nothing by Sunday then it's big news.
  7. Jun 18, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    I'm sure there are a few airlines (small operators or incremental orders by big operators) that dropped out after the crashes and switched to Airbus. It's small relative to those who are locked in already. Apparently orders have been coming in since 2011 :eek:

    Absolutely huge for sure. Air Shows are normally the opposite of apology tours :lol:
  8. Jun 18, 2019

    11101 Full Member

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    They've averaged between 400 and 900 orders per year for the 737MAX since launch. This year so far? 7.


    Massive fundamental incidents like these have led to the end of numerous aircraft over the years. It could be very well be the last 737 model.
  9. Jun 18, 2019

    Skills Snitch

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    They'll probably just re-brand. For the same reason they refused to do it before - the 737 name carried a lot of weight behind it.
  10. Jun 18, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    It's not going to be the last 737 model. You forget how successful this model has been in the narrow body segment.

    The 737 max 8... Probably, but if they get clearance from the regulatory authorities, and regain the confidence of major airlines (they most likely will), why would they scrap an entire line?
  11. Jun 18, 2019

    11101 Full Member

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    They were already planning to replace the 737. The 737 MAX was really only introduced because they couldn't develop the replacement fast enough and Airbus were winning too many orders with the A320neo. It was probably going to be the last model in the line anyway.

    If passengers avoid it airlines will react. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened and brought an aircraft's production to a premature end.
  12. Jun 18, 2019

    Cloud7 Full Member

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    Genuine question mate. Do you work with/are invested in Boeing in any way? It’s not meant to be offensive or anything of that sort, but you’ve been quite defensive of them in this thread.
  13. Jun 27, 2019

    Carolina Red Moderator Staff

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  14. Jun 30, 2019

    Enigma_87 You know who

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    and worse..

    Who developed the Boeing 737 Max's flawed software? Low-paid temp workers and recent college grads, according to report

    https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-outsourced-737-max-report-2019-6

    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
  15. Jul 7, 2019

    Foxbatt Full Member

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    Since it is a certification problem it is going to take some time. The FAA may allow the Max to operate but most of the World now operates under EASA rules and now EASA is not going to to certify it just because FAA says so. They are going to independently verify everything. This will take time. Now the Air Canada 787 issue has flared up too so Boeing is in a spot of bother as far the certification of aircraft are.
  16. Jul 15, 2019

    Abizzz Full Member

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  17. Jul 15, 2019

    VorZakone What would Kenny G do?

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    It's gonna cost them a big amount of money. But it's Boeing. Their only real competitor is Airbus and the latter can't sweep up the whole market.

    So in the long-term they'll be fine I reckon.
  18. Jul 15, 2019

    11101 Full Member

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    They said it would cost them over $1b in April, when they still thought it would be flying by the summer. Each aircraft is supposedly costing it's owning airline 150k per day to sit there doing nothing. I'm sure they'll all be chasing Boeing for that too.

    Even with all that, they will almost certainly still turn a profit this year. That's how big they are.
  19. Jul 15, 2019

    Abizzz Full Member

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    Yeah, they'll survive this, no doubt, but it must be a fortune by now.

    https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-max-american-united-grounding-20190714-story.html

    American Airlines don't seem optimistic about a return in the next couple of months (no surprise really).
  20. Jul 15, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    On the one hand, this could be catastrophic for Boeing, but on the other, a lot people have died and many millions (sounds alarmist, but think how many passengers a year are flying in these aircraft) more could be at risk.

    They can not allow these planes to fly again until a solution is found. What happens if Boeing goes bust? I'm not sure, presumably the US Government would have to step in?
  21. Jul 15, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    :lol:

    That isn't happening.
  22. Jul 15, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    That's exactly my point, it's not funny. Neither is people dying plane crashes, which is even less funny.
  23. Jul 15, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    What's funny is your suggestion that Boeing goes bust.

    1. They're not close to going bust

    2. They are a critical defense contractor, so the United States would have to step in, IF they were close to going bust

    3. They're not close to going bust

    That comment is indicative of the hyperbolic rhetoric concerning Boeing over the past few months, but I'll stop here before I'm accused of owning shares in Boeing
  24. Jul 15, 2019

    Sassy Colin Death or the gladioli!

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    I believe you are a Boeing share holder.
  25. Jul 15, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    That would be financial negligence.

    Bitcoins is where it's at. #HODL
  26. Jul 15, 2019

    Dwazza Gunnar Solskjær Lutefisk is it!

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    Many posters probably are and don't even know it.

    Although by now, their mutual funds may have dumped Boeing.
  27. Jul 22, 2019

    Skills Snitch

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  28. Jul 22, 2019

    Carolina Red Moderator Staff

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  29. Jul 22, 2019

    Adisa likes to take afvanadva wothowi doubt

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    Next time, don't cut corners.
  30. Jul 22, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

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    Absolutely right.
    I am certainly not condoning Boeing. But many major companies cut corners and often get away with it.
    In this case Boeing didn't. Remember. They were trying very hard to blame the Ethiopian pilots for the catastrophic crash even though they were well aware of the problem.
  31. Jul 22, 2019

    The Firestarter Full Member

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    Cynically enough, investors are "OK" with this figure. However , with the possibility of return of service before 2020 rapidly diminishing, this number can get a lot larger.
  32. Jul 22, 2019

    fergieisold Full Member

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    Boeing seem like scum to me. I'll actively attempt to avoid flying on their planes. They even conned the relatives out of more significant compensation!
  33. Jul 22, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

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    Wouldn't argue with that. They actively targeted Ethiopian Airlines, a customer of Boeing, in order to try to deflect the blame onto what they regarded as a 'third world airline with third world aircrew'. And they have never apologised to them for that.
    They then tried to put some blame on the American FAA for not spotting the problem and certifying the aircraft.
  34. Jul 22, 2019

    crappycraperson "Resident cricket authority" Scout

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    They almost got away with it as well since accidents did not occur in the west. Just look at some of the posts in this thread by certain posters who were convinced that Boeing did nothing wrong and Asian/African and even European authorities later on were overreacting due to public hysteria.
  35. Jul 22, 2019

    Buster15 Full Member

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    Simply appalling.
    In all of this it remains vital to remember those who perished and the families of those.
    I suspect that they will have to overcome many obstacles put in their way before they get justice.
  36. Jul 22, 2019

    baskinginthesun Full Member

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    They have their hands on a lot of aircraft. It will be close to impossible to accomplish this. You would be better of going on ground transportation.
  37. Jul 22, 2019

    Ramshock CAF Pilib De Brún Translator

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    Swimming against a tide of idiots and spoofers
    Or you know just fly Airbus?
  38. Jul 22, 2019

    adexkola Arsenal supporter

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    3 issues with this:

    1. You immediately rule out airlines that almost exclusively operate Boeing (which is a significant chunk of the worldwide fleet). Depending on where you are, that may complicate travel plans in terms of destination options and fares paid

    2. Airlines that operate more than one airframe usually stick to a common airframe for a certain route; however once you book a ticket from A to B, an airline is not responsible for ensuring you fly exclusively on Airbus planes. Routine or extreme circumstances may have you being put on a different airliner than you intended.

    3. Or you could find airliners that exclusively operate a combination of Airbus and/or Embraer and/or Bombardier and/or MD. If you are flying from New York to Heathrow you'll be fine. For more specialized routes it may end up costing you more, or taking longer. Or you may be fine.

    If you struggle with plane travel already then you should probably stick to Airbus for your sanity. Otherwise, just seems like extra stress for some sense of safety which isn't grounded in much fact.
  39. Jul 23, 2019

    baskinginthesun Full Member

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    I was going to recommend EasyJet as I think they are one of the few airlines in Europe that are an all Airbus fleet.

    Careful, Embraer and MD both owned by Boeing now. Well, MD merged with Boeing in the late 90's, I think.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019